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I mean, if everyone is playing a 40ft-long immortal star dragon, it's fine. NorgLyle posted:Did they bring back racial penalties in 5th Edition? In 4th it was just 'Hobbits are naturally friendly and agile have some +2s'. Orcs had an intelligence penalty, and I think there's a handful of other penalties kicking around. Ebberon and the Critical Role setting removed the INT penalty for orcs, but I don't know anything else about them, really. GreenMetalSun has a new favorite as of 14:22 on Jun 18, 2020 |
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Jun 18, 2020 14:19
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If everyone is a 40-ft-long immortal star dragon, then no one will be
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Jun 18, 2020 14:21
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Arivia posted:Basically yes. You can’t have minotaurs move out of “things that are generally acceptable to kill” or it ruins how the game’s set up. Editorial didn’t want to lose Minotaurs as a thing in the Monster Manual. (I’m thinking these are Knaak’s books on the Minotaurs of Taladas in Dragonlance, FYI.) The book I’m thinking of was a dragonlance book, legend of Huma I think? Which double checking was written by knaak. Good call
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Jun 18, 2020 14:33
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SurreptitiousMuffin posted:Dungeons and Dragons is removing racial modifiers and rewriting the more problematic elements of their lore around drow/orcs and boy howdy are there some takes I don't think this guy is serious.
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Jun 18, 2020 14:34
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Reminder that one of the original authors of D&D thought evil races could be compared to Native Americans; i.e. they’re inherently evil savages, and killing them was a categorically good and wholesome act. It’s not wrong that D&D is moving away from his original vision, but, uh, that’s not a bad thing.
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Jun 18, 2020 14:49
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IamnotJoe posted:I don't think this guy is serious. I have some really bad news for you about Dungeons and Dragons players.
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Jun 18, 2020 14:54
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GreenMetalSun posted:I have some really bad news for you about Dungeons and Dragons players.
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Jun 18, 2020 14:58
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d3lness posted:DnD grognards are feces given sapience. I have met these types of people in every game store I've gone to and they always ruin everything for everybody. Arivia posted:Basically yes. You can’t have minotaurs move out of “things that are generally acceptable to kill” or it ruins how the game’s set up. Editorial didn’t want to lose Minotaurs as a thing in the Monster Manual. (I’m thinking these are Knaak’s books on the Minotaurs of Taladas in Dragonlance, FYI.)
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Jun 18, 2020 14:58
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d3lness posted:DnD grognards are feces given sapience. I have met these types of people in every game store I've gone to and they always ruin everything for everybody. I mean I get that they are terrible pieces of poo poo that barely know the basics of human interaction, but you'd think that people who spend their entire lives playing a game that consists primarily of reading and writing would be able to create legible sentences.
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Jun 18, 2020 14:59
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Guilty posted:I mean I get that they are terrible pieces of poo poo that barely know the basics of human interaction, but you'd think that people who spend their entire lives playing a game that consists primarily of reading and writing would be able to create legible sentences. Just like people who work with the oppressed and underprivileged on a daily basis should have some sympathy for said groups? I'm talking about the police on the off chance that was unclear.
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Jun 18, 2020 15:01
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There are a lot of people who think having hobbies socially perceived as nerdy and geeky makes them smart rather than actually doing anything to grow smarter. My undergrad comp sci was full of students that knew they were smart and good with computers because they played WoW and fixed grandma's router settings. Obviously the fact they were failing their classes wasn't because they slacked off and never listened. No their failing proved they were smarter than the professor because if a bunch of smart people like them couldn't effortlessly get As the class was pointless and poorly taught.
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Jun 18, 2020 15:05
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lol even if ten times as many black people immigrated than were slaves what the gently caress would the point of that prager vid be? There weren’t as many slaves so it wasn’t that bad???
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Jun 18, 2020 15:05
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Calico Heart posted:lol even if ten times as many black people immigrated than were slaves what the gently caress would the point of that prager vid be? There weren’t as many slaves so it wasn’t that bad??? My assumption is that it’s supposed to make you doubt any black person who claims to be descended from slaves.
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Jun 18, 2020 15:07
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d3lness posted:Just like people who work with the oppressed and underprivileged on a daily basis should have some sympathy for said groups? I'm talking about the police on the off chance that was unclear. According to certain relatives of mine, no, because you keep meeting people that suck and fit the stereotypes, so clearly this means the stereotypes are completely right. At least as long as you ignore that you'll naturally have less interaction with all the completely normal people, because they have significantly less contact with police, social services, etc.
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Jun 18, 2020 15:08
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Calico Heart posted:lol even if ten times as many black people immigrated than were slaves what the gently caress would the point of that prager vid be? There weren’t as many slaves so it wasn’t that bad??? Black people wanted to be here anyway so slavery was good 
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Jun 18, 2020 15:12
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mind the walrus posted:He's really not kidding. Grognards are super real and they're as awful the stereotypes would have you believe. Goddamn it. I am the idiot for believing the best of people.
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Jun 18, 2020 15:16
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Soylent Pudding posted:There are a lot of people who think having hobbies socially perceived as nerdy and geeky makes them smart rather than actually doing anything to grow smarter. My undergrad comp sci was full of students that knew they were smart and good with computers because they played WoW and fixed grandma's router settings. Obviously the fact they were failing their classes wasn't because they slacked off and never listened. No their failing proved they were smarter than the professor because if a bunch of smart people like them couldn't effortlessly get As the class was pointless and poorly taught. Calico Heart posted:lol even if ten times as many black people immigrated than were slaves what the gently caress would the point of that prager vid be? There weren’t as many slaves so it wasn’t that bad???
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Jun 18, 2020 15:18
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It's me, I'm the idiot for associating with nerds who play roleplaying games online. "Harumph well if people didn't want racism in their games, they could just houserule it out!!!!! Clearly it's black people's fault for identifying with orcs in the first place. If they didn't do that, we could just make orcs as racist as we wanted and no one would be upset."
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Jun 18, 2020 15:20
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Henchman of Santa posted:My assumption is that it’s supposed to make you doubt any black person who claims to be descended from slaves. Also "when they talk about reparations then you know it's because they're just lazy and looking for handouts"
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Jun 18, 2020 15:25
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i feel you could get around the whole "different ability scores for different species is racist" thing by not having other playable species just be blatantly "a human culture, but with funny ears/green skin" and actually be, you know, notably different than humans.
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Jun 18, 2020 15:47
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You could probably go a long way by not giving anyone penalties too, like maybe everyone gets a bonus but nobody gets penalties.
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Jun 18, 2020 15:59
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also i feel like calling them "species" or something instead of "races" might help you don't have to blindly ape tolkein's wording on stuff like that
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Jun 18, 2020 16:02
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Alternatively, give bonuses by class so any race can be anything. Race shouldn't be more than a tool for story telling. Crunch should always be completely neutral. Fluff is where you can describe where those bonuses come from if you really want. E: ^^ Race is really a bad word to have codified for this kinda separation.
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Jun 18, 2020 16:02
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d3lness posted:Crunch should always be completely neutral. Fluff is where you can describe where those bonuses come from if you really want. you had me until here
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Jun 18, 2020 16:07
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True I guess, you could just introduce a "background" option which includes all the current racial stat modifiers as a result of your early life, so you can still double dip by playing a strong fighty dude or a smart wizard or whatever, or play against type by playing a dumb wizard or a weedy fighter, it just doesn't have anything to do with your race/species. Except I guess hobbits are still small.
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Jun 18, 2020 16:09
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full confession, i haven't played a tabletop game in which orcs or elves or even humans were a playable species in like a decade so my views on the subject may be weird
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Jun 18, 2020 16:12
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https://twitter.com/smallivy_si/status/1273584677861949442?s=21
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Jun 18, 2020 16:16
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You could still have size penalties (gnomes and halflings) without making it all Race Science.
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Jun 18, 2020 16:17
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5E has literally two races with penalties to any stats, which is kinda crazy Orcs have -2 Int but Kobolds have -4 charisma. Real crazy that if the 80 playable races altogether those are the two with penalties
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Jun 18, 2020 16:21
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d3lness posted:Alternatively, give bonuses by class so any race can be anything. Race shouldn't be more than a tool for story telling. Crunch should always be completely neutral. Fluff is where you can describe where those bonuses come from if you really want.  completely and totally. It makes sense when you consider the relatively white, homogenous origins of the genre but it's time to move beyond it and you can do that pretty easily without much fuss.Although I won't lie it is really funny to DM games where the players want to be super-exotic rare snowflake races and are then surprised that backwater human hicks are unwelcoming and they have to work harder for basic stuff like lodging and information. What the gently caress did you guys think was going to happen?
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Jun 18, 2020 16:23
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Captain Monkey posted:You could still have size penalties (gnomes and halflings) without making it all Race Science. Jesus freaks really need to learn how loving weird they look to outsiders.
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Jun 18, 2020 16:28
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Calico Heart posted:lol even if ten times as many black people immigrated than were slaves what the gently caress would the point of that prager vid be? There weren’t as many slaves so it wasn’t that bad??? i haven't watched the video and i wont watch it the claim is that if more africans immigrated willingly to the united states after slavery than africans were forcibly moved to america during the slave trade, then more people in the united states have african rather than african american heritage, and thus can't complain about slavery being impactful to their lives. something like, the number of people directly with a heritage of slavery is small, so slavery can't still matter today this argument ignores: -population growth over 150 years -that slavery entrenched a white power structure which actively existed well into the 20th century and which still mostly exists today despite increasing attempts to dismantle it -this white power structure does not draw distinctions between americans of recent african heritage and african americans with centuries of ancestors in america it's just misdirection trying to minimize and dismiss the still present effects of slavery on american society
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Jun 18, 2020 16:50
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SurreptitiousMuffin posted:Dungeons and Dragons is removing racial modifiers and rewriting the more problematic elements of their lore around drow/orcs and boy howdy are there some takes So you mean like TSR did with AD&D 2nd Ed?  I know this is cheating, but: https://twitter.com/realDonaldTrump/status/1273634152433188865  Also: https://twitter.com/MrMaitra/status/1273631138184155136  
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Jun 18, 2020 16:56
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mind the walrus posted:Although I won't lie it is really funny to DM games where the players want to be super-exotic rare snowflake races and are then surprised that backwater human hicks are unwelcoming and they have to work harder for basic stuff like lodging and information. What the gently caress did you guys think was going to happen? In my experience, people who want to be as outlandish as possible with their race/class combinations are doing it in lieu of having a personality. There's this weird disconnect in D&D too, where a number of the other 'races', tieflings, genasi, aasimar, gith (depending on if you use the lore that they were humans altered by illithid genetic tampering), are literally humans. I've personally witnessed a woman in her late thirties throw a sobbing, screaming, literally shaking temper tantrum in the middle of a game because I was like, 'Yeah, tieflings are just another phenotype of humans who happen to have horns and water genasi are just another type of humans who happen to have gills. No one on the world would even think to suggest that they weren't human'.
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Jun 18, 2020 16:59
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OwlFancier posted:You could probably go a long way by not giving anyone penalties too, like maybe everyone gets a bonus but nobody gets penalties. It also really doesn't help that "intelligence" is a stat. It's pretty hard to avoid unfortunate implications when you decide that intelligence is measurable and some types of people just have more of it.
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Jun 18, 2020 17:00
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You could probably replace intelligence with like, "psyche" or something more abstract.
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Jun 18, 2020 17:04
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It's not even supposed to be a measure of how "smart" you are, that's rolled into the wisdom stat. It's just for wizards to keep track of how well they memorize spells
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Jun 18, 2020 17:22
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d3lness posted:Alternatively, give bonuses by class so any race can be anything. d3lness posted:Crunch should always be completely neutral.
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Jun 18, 2020 17:33
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GreenMetalSun posted:In my experience, people who want to be as outlandish as possible with their race/class combinations are doing it in lieu of having a personality. level 1 male human fighter spotted
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Jun 18, 2020 17:36
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Replace the entire stat block with Gumption Moxie Spunk Razzamataz Chutzpah and Enthusiasm.
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Jun 18, 2020 17:37
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