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Having caught up with the films I haven't seen, I'm now ready to vote. The Masque of the Red Death vs. Shirome I enjoyed how surreal Shirome felt in parts, and I would totally watch a show that was just "We take unsuspecting people to spooky places, and then torture them psychologically." As a cinematic entry in a horror director contest though, it's dead on arrival. How could it possibly complete with Vincent Price flexing his villainous muscles, in easily the most sumptuous sets I've ever seen in a Corman production. I'm not sure where Corman has to go after this, and it saddens me that we should lose Shiraishi this way, but I have to throw my vote behind Corman given the circumstances. Faust vs. Three... Extremes: Cut Faust is beautiful, and extremely entertaining despite its length. I also love how expressive, and fantastical everything is, whilst also maintaining the tone appropriate to each scene. The plague is dirty and threatening. The King's court is resplendent, and dazzling. The village is twee, and innocent, and carefree, but turns on a dime to become a frightening, dark, cold, and moralistically brutal prison. It's just wonderful from start to finish. Cut on the other hand is an interesting mess. I didn't think it was bad, it just flirted so hard with comedy as to become farcical. It was occasionally pretty to look at, and seemingly mostly all shot within one set, but the performances, story, and dialogue just broke any sense of suspense for me. It's also not funny, or wild, or gross out enough to work as a horror comedy. So we're just left with a conceptually interesting, but kind of schlubby Saw concept, which didn't really tickle me. So this round goes to Faust. Lost Highway vs. Cabin Fever 2: Spring Fever I chose not to rewatch Lost Highway, and that's because it's one of my favourite Lynch films. It obviously doesn't compare to the dizzying heights of something like Blue Velvet, but it has so many iconic lines, performances, story hooks, and visuals. The soundtrack is also amazing, going from Badalamenti, to Rammstein, Marilyn Manson, David Bowie, Trent Reznor, all the way to Lou Reed. This is my interpretation, but it also feels like Lynch's most personal work since Eraserhead, diving deep into a public exploration of his writing process, and exploring issues such as story structure, and character development. I'm sure the segment of the eyebrowless man, holding up a camera, and wondering aloud "What the gently caress is your name?" Has happened to Lynch more than once in the writing room. While Cabin Fever 2 is well, it's entertaining I guess? There's some interesting gross-out gore that appeals to me, but it's just such an empty, soulless, vacuous shell of a movie. I'm not sure why anyone would choose to spend any time in its company. So it's an easy victory for Lost Highway. Army of Darkness vs. Stagefright Guilty confession time, I don't really like Army of Darkness that much. It's not a bad film, it's just that I still have the lingering disappointment I felt from watching it the first time as a kid, and seeing that it was a tonal departure from the first two films. I guess some of the goofiness is there in Evil Dead II, but it really becomes turned up to eleven here. It's definitely an entertaining film though, with countless memorable moments, it's just not what I wanted, and I can't shake that feeling. Stagefright is, well I've said before that those first five minutes are absolutely inspired. Afterwards it drifts off in quality, and becomes a bit more ordinary, but there's still plenty to like. I think one of my favourite scenes throughout this entire bracket, is the killer setting up his kills like props on the stage, and our final girl watching asif frozen. If the whole film could have been as haunting and dreamlike as that one moment, I'd give it Stagefright, but unfortunately it was not meant to be, and my vote must go to Army of Darkness. Which, while not being my favourite, does at least hold the audience throughout the entire runtime. Debbie Does Dagon fucked around with this message at 22:59 on Jun 16, 2020 |
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Jun 16, 2020 22:56
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Ok, Shirome definitely felt a little bit like "homework." As does Lost Highway and Faust being like 5 hours combined. Daaaamn. This was a rough week to kill myself doing yard/garden work in the sun and getting burned and exhausted all week. I just keep dozing off during all these movies.
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Jun 17, 2020 00:08
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M--m-m-my Shirome.
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Jun 17, 2020 02:54
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Shrecknet posted:It actually was random, but sometimes things just work out Lynch's Lost Highway vs. William Lustig's Maniac Cop 2 Peter Jackson's Frighteners vs. William Castle's House on Haunted Hill Corman's Masque of Red Death vs. Tim Burton's Sleepy Hollow Raimi's Army of Darkness vs. Tod Browning's Dracula That would have been a really loaded first week with probably a lot more debate and discussion than we've gotten and tougher matchups. It also would have changed to these later week matchups: Chan-Wook's "Cut" vs. Bob Clark's Black Christmas Murnau's Faust vs. Terence Fisher's Hounds of Baskerville Rob Zombie's Halloween 2 vs. West's Cabin Fever 2 James Whale's Invisible Man vs Shirashi's Shirome Guillermo del Toro's Pan's Labarynth vs Soavi's StageFright Probably wouldn't have changed much for those guys but it gave me something fun to do for 20 minutes. Anyway, taking the day off from gardening or doing much of anything. Vowing off the news for a self health day. Gonna try and do Masque, Faust, and Lost Highway today. Might need some palette cleaning between them. Not really feeling Twin Peaks but might have to use those episodes. Oh crap, The Grandmother expires off TCM today. Guess its gonna be a David Lynch day. edit: After watching the Grandmother i'm not sure "David Lynch day" and "self health day" are totally compatible. We'll see. STAC Goat fucked around with this message at 14:19 on Jun 17, 2020 |
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Jun 17, 2020 13:11
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Thread seems dead, which makes me sad. I'm taking another me day. Opened up my new french press, went to he grocery store for some beans, and had the first cup of coffee I've truly enjoyed in years. Seen all 8 films but I'm gonna rewatch Faust today before voting. Gonna watch another film or two I'll need to see before future 1st round draws. Even though I still don't love this format and fear it will lead to slow lack of discussion like this, I do love the "assigned" movies giving me a schedule of stuff I might not have checked out otherwise.
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Jun 18, 2020 16:15
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STAC Goat posted:Thread seems dead, which makes me sad. I'm taking another me day. Opened up my new french press, went to he grocery store for some beans, and had the first cup of coffee I've truly enjoyed in years. Seen all 8 films but I'm gonna rewatch Faust today before voting. Gonna watch another film or two I'll need to see before future 1st round draws. Even though I still don't love this format and fear it will lead to slow lack of discussion like this, I do love the "assigned" movies giving me a schedule of stuff I might not have checked out otherwise. This is a pretty long, ongoing project so don't get bummed out if the discussion dies down for a few days. And continue to practice self-care, which is always a good idea.
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Jun 18, 2020 16:17
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This would happen with the first bracket too. The matchups would be posted and generate heated discussion, but then by the end of the voting period it would peter out to maybe a post or two a day. Then the results are announced, a new round of voting starts, rinse wash repeat.
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Jun 18, 2020 16:38
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Yeah, this is a similar pattern to the old thread so it's nothing to be concerned about, but I do think the voting periods on these early rounds should be a bit shorter moving forward. I think this is going to keep happening when the lesser-known filmmakers are up against the titans—there just isn't as much to say as when you're debating two beloved favorites.
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Jun 18, 2020 16:40
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Oh yea the option was definitely left open to cut time for each round depending on how things go. So we may end up doing that, but obviously there has to be a balance so that people have time to watch the films.
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Jun 18, 2020 16:42
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Still bummed about Soavi's and Koji's draws but at least they're going out to some top tier competition. You know who wouldn't have been knocked out this round to those draws? That's right my boy Charles---- *a hook drags me by the neck off stage*
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Jun 18, 2020 17:16
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I'm stoked for the next round, I've been watching wuxia movies since I ran out of horrors to watch, get it on with! Thread definitely not dead, personally I've just made all my choices. I might be the only one to vote for Shirome, just for the sheer audacity. I loving hated it but I respect the troll.
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Jun 18, 2020 17:48
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married but discreet posted:I'm stoked for the next round, I've been watching wuxia movies since I ran out of horrors to watch, get it on with! Thread definitely not dead, personally I've just made all my choices. You were also pretty lukewarm on Masque of the Red Death weren't you? That's really the difference for me, there were other Corman films where I might've given consideration to Shirome but Masque is one of my favorite Price movies and by far my favorite Corman.
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Jun 18, 2020 17:51
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Ok starting tomorrow we'll got to 5 days instead of 7, with an option to go down to 4.
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Jun 18, 2020 18:03
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I'm cool with the 7 day thing because I wouldn't have finished all 8 without it. But if everyone wants to cut down to 5 I guess I'll just have to cram more and force double billings. Or skip the ones I've seen.
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Jun 18, 2020 18:20
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STAC Goat posted:I'm cool with the 7 day thing because I wouldn't have finished all 8 without it. But if everyone wants to cut down to 5 I guess I'll just have to cram more and force double billings. Or skip the ones I've seen. Yea that's what I'm doing, prioritizing the ones I haven't seen and only mixing in a few rewatches if I feel like it. Not forcing myself to watch all 8 every round.
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Jun 18, 2020 18:22
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FWIW I have really really appreciated the slower schedule, it's hard for me to fit movies into my life right now and I still haven't seen Shirome or Cabin Fever 2. The franchise tournament schedule would have been flat out impossible if I hadn't done some relevant binges during past challenges.
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Jun 18, 2020 18:24
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I know we might not want to drag it out too long, but it'll be a lot harder to get through all the movies on a shorter schedule. Watching Cabin Fever 2 now; I kind of wish it was just the dumb Flash animation in the opening all the way through.
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Jun 18, 2020 19:58
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I'd say keep the extra time. The only downside is the thread might get a little quiet for a few days which isn't a big deal, whereas if you shorten the timeline you will have people skipping movies or feeling harried and rushed which is a bigger deal imho.
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Jun 18, 2020 22:13
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I started this by saying I was sad making 2 posts in a row a day removed. I regret that as I appreciate the 7 day wait. It gave me the time to watch them all without having to force myself to watch them when I wasn't in the mood. If we go to 5 days I'll live and adapt as I did with the format, but for now I'd prefer to stick with 7. And I'll again say, for as much as I complained about the format before the start and still don't love it, I definitely love the "schedule" of films that gets me watching stuff I definitely never would have otherwise.
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Jun 18, 2020 22:23
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Soon my time will come Soon the time to bullshit Honda into the heavens will arrive
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Jun 19, 2020 01:57
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Down to the wire, but I had a good movie day and got my votes in. The Masque of the Red Death vs. Shirome I think I enjoyed Shirome a lot more than I would have if reactions in this thread hadn't prepared me - concert DVD extra seems exactly right. There's really a surprising amount to think about here, for what it is. The basic premise is cute but also you can also 100% believe an idol group's manager would send them into harm's way like this, so there's a strange tension throughout the entire thing where it feels like it has to be pretty self-aware but also this is apparently a real idol group so do we believe their management is unusually good and would actually treat them better than this? Toss in the bit in the credits and suddenly you have to reconsider what you thought you knew about how in on things the group was throughout the movie. So what you end up with is something that kind of works as it presents itself, works even better as self-aware grim humor about the industry it exists in, and then maybe works even better than that as completely accidental and oblivious self-condemnation. Which I think is fairly impressive for a production that looks like someone just offered to buy Shiraishi's booze for the weekend if he'd throw together a copy of Noroi but with their talent slipped in. Bonus points for the professional ghost story teller, who I adored. As a "serious" film it suffers from sitting in an unfortunate middle-ground of ambition, where the run time stretches a bit long for the material they've actually got but they don't really find a way to let the girls be interesting characters. Maybe that's just what you get from working with an idol group, but if so the whole thing could have been done under an hour. Still, it does a lot with what is clearly very little. Masque also does a lot with very little, though, only you have to look much closer to see just how cheap the thing was. For the most part it really looks great, and Vincent Price chews enough scenery to distract from almost all the corners that are being cut in every shot. Prospero feels paper thin for how much time we spend with him and the script as a whole feels like it's got too much "look what a jerk he is" and not enough "look how scary the red death is" but it's good fun the entire way through. I especially enjoyed trying to figure out what was going on with Juliana in any given scene - bewildered waiting for something to validate her belief, play acting to try and impress Prospero, sincerely buying into this poo poo, being mauled by a falcon indoors, etc. Not a great movie by any stretch, but definitely better than the j-pop DVD extra. Faust vs. Three... Extremes: Cut This was the only one that surprised me - Faust is a real heavyweight not just in terms of historical importance, it's still a real pleasure to look at and Emil Jannings knocks it out of the park as Mephisto. If we're discounting historical importance, though, it falls short on most other fronts. Jannings is the only performance of any note, the story is a pointless mess, and pacing hadn't even been invented when it was filmed. Cut isn't a perfect film, but it is a very good one in all the ways Faust is good but also in most of the ways Faust comes up short. Fun premise, good to great performances all around, never stops moving, tons of fun camerawork, and it's over before you know it. It doesn't hurt that the other films in the anthology are also pretty good. Point to Park. Lost Highway vs. Cabin Fever 2: Spring Fever I did not have time for Cabin Fever 2. My conscience would have had me abstain from the vote but that wasn't an option, so oh well. Sorry Ti West, but if we're being honest there's no way your movie was going to be as good as Lost Highway. Army of Darkness vs. Stagefright Still a little sad about this one. Put Stagefright up against just about any slasher and a healthy chunk of giallo, it walks away a clear winner. But even though I probably don't love Army of Darkness nearly as much as I did when I was a teenager, there's a lot of good in it and it forever defined what I expect out of skeletons. Point to Raimi.
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Jun 19, 2020 11:01
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Ok, I couldn't work up the energy to watch Faust. I'll try again today but gotta vote anyway. David Lynch’s Lost Highway vs Ti West’s Cabin Fever 2 I did not like Lost Highway. Ti West got a bad draw here. Cabin Fever 2 is crap. Its also the kind of crap that feels like the thing a director does early in his career when he has no real control and just has to do as told. CF2 is a bunch of people trying to write a sophomoric, edge lord Eli Roth film and making Roth look good. And West was apparently so unhappy he wanted his name removed. But it wasn’t and here we are. If this were Lost Highway vs Innkeepers or House of the Devil I think I’d safely give West my vote and might have campaigned for him (maybe, no one really campaigned, I think sadly that’s the way this format will go as I feared going in). Hell, if this was Lynch vs West I might give West my vote. I know that would have been an unpopular position but I’ve watched a bunch of Lynch this week and I really do enjoy what I’ve seen of West more. But we’re not doing that. We’re doing Lost Highway vs Cabin Fever 2. And while I think Lost Highway is a superficial, incoherent, largely empty piece its well made, stylish, sounds good, and Rosanna Arquette. And CF2 is just crap. Ah well. West never had a chance anyway. At least Eli Roth didn’t make the tourney. I choose to believe this is the spot he was denied and take solace and delight in that. FW Murnau’s Faust vs. Park Chan-Wook’s “Cut” from Three… Extremes The reason I wanted to rewatch Faust is because… I don’t think I really liked Faust that much. It was really long and kind of a meandering stay and had no depth to any other characters or events or anything. I dunno. Its good for all the ways people say its good but when watching a bunch of the classic historic silent films in October I felt like I was starting to recognize when a film was great and when a film had great things and was historic because of that. And that’s what I ended up feeling about Faust. On the other hand Three… Extremes was fun. But I guess I shouldn’t be judging it on the other two pieces, I should just be judging Cut. And while it seems odd to judge one 40 minute kind of incoherent piece against Faust… it also feels fitting. So I’m gonna do something I may regret later. One 2 hour mildly incoherent more style morality play vs one 40 minute mildly incoherent more style morality play? I enjoyed Cut more. And I’ve seen Murnau’s other films (both of whom I probably would have voted for here) so I’m more curious to see Park’s work. Roger Corman’s Masque of the Red Death vs. Koji Shirashi’s Shirome I don’t like Masque. Its very pretty and vivid and Price is great, but its kind of a mash up of short stories that I don’t thick click together well and leaves a weird middle part where Price meanders about for awhile and his minions have some side schemes. But Shirome kinda of sucked. The idea was interesting and there was probably a moment here or there I liked, but it was largely a ghost hunting show with crying children and no payoff to speak of. So Corman gets this one pretty easy. But I’ll make a note of Shirashi’s other films and check them out. Sam Raimi’s Army of Darkness vs. Michele Soavi’s StageFright: Aquarias So I kind of enjoyed StageFright. Giallo really isn’t my thing but Soavi seems like a talented guy and I thought it moved along and came together really well. I liked it a lot more by the time it was over than I thought I would 20 minutes in. But we’re talking about Army of Darkness here. And while going in I was thinking “this is the weakest of the Evil Dead films” rewatching it it really is a fun and unique adventure from the rest of the franchise. It might have struggled in a later round against tougher competition, but I feel like I gave both films a fair shot and I’m happy giving Raimi’s the nod here on the merit of the films and not just me favoring him as a director.
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Jun 19, 2020 11:12
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We had a slew of votes in the final hour, so I think we're just gonna kick it down to 6 days from 7 as that feels like a good compromise in the early rounds. Anyway, RESULTS!  No real surprises, each of the favorites handily won their matchups, with Faust from 1926 having the stiffest competition, showing just how drat good Murnau is that a 94 year old film still has legs. Argue below, and I'll have part two of the Tinseltown division up shortly.
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Jun 19, 2020 13:27
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Tinseltown Knockout Round, PART DEUX! VOTE HERE! VOTE NOW! (or after watching these competitors) Afterlife is on Netflix, Survival Quest... you're on your own.  Dead Ringers is on Prime, Halloweentown II is on Disney+(!!!)  The Beyond is on Shudder; The Addiction is only on Starz  The Birds is absolutely nowhere for free. Sick Girl straight-up is not available to stream anywhere at all. So, uh, good luck? We'll have SIX DAYS to get in your views and then vote. VOTING ENDS JUNE 25th!! VOTE HERE! VOTE NOW! (or after watching these competitors)
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Jun 19, 2020 13:54
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I have a pretty nice Hitchcock blu ray set so a rewatch of The Birds is in order. This is why I have all those blu rays after all! And I happen to have a Disney + sub at the moment so yes, I will be watching Halloweentown II. Probably after a few beers.
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Jun 19, 2020 14:20
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I cannot tell y'all how happy I am that Mary Lambert drew Halloweentown II. However, the true marquee battle here is The Beyond vs. The Addiction. Both very strong draws and makes this a true battle. Also, unrelated but  Shrecknet . Brian De Palma may have The Black Dahlia listed for his films, however I'm not sure if it really counts as horror or if it's more of a neo-noir. Before we get to him I'd hate for him to draw something that ends up being ostensibly non-horror.
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Jun 19, 2020 14:27
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The way movies are randomly drawn without replacement is going to make this really interesting later on. Raimi got lucky that he used up one of his weakest movies, but I think The Gift, as much as I do like it, will cost him later. Corman is probably screwed if Masque is his best movie.
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Jun 19, 2020 14:38
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married but discreet posted:The way movies are randomly drawn without replacement is going to make this really interesting later on. Raimi got lucky that he used up one of his weakest movies, but I think The Gift, as much as I do like it, will cost him later. Corman's main significance is as a relentlessly prolific producer. In career terms he retired from directing very early.
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Jun 19, 2020 14:53
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The other Price/Corman/Poe films are very strong too, but yea this is probably as far as he goes. Raimi's draw next round isn't his strongest but I think he'll probably still win.
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Jun 19, 2020 15:01
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TrixRabbi posted:
 Also im excited to see Halloweentown 2, I think kids horror is such a fine needle to thread and legit way more difficult than adult spooks
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Jun 19, 2020 15:23
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Lost Highway didn't strike me as horror so like, yeah, just let the thrillers go. If people don't think they're horror let that affect their vote. Gonna rewatch Resident Evil Afterlife and consider the weirdness of voting for it in a "best director" tourney.
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Jun 19, 2020 15:26
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STAC Goat posted:Lost Highway didn't strike me as horror so like, yeah, just let the thrillers go. If people don't think they're horror let that affect their vote. Anderson was just a guy to fill out the bracket, I think we all knew he was gone in round 1. And yea we decided to just allow any and all thrillers because otherwise the "what is horror?" argument was going to consume the whole thread.
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Jun 19, 2020 15:44
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Oh, this was not the Resident Evil I thought it was. Cool dessert setting one didn't even make the cut. I hope Survival Quest doesn't suck. And I can find it. Ah well. I got chores to do and background noise to need.
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Jun 19, 2020 15:47
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Shrecknet posted:The Birds is absolutely nowhere for free. Sick Girl straight-up is not available to stream anywhere at all. So, uh, good luck? The Birds is available for free on Peacock, if you have access to it via your Comcast subscription. Sick Girl, and the other "Masters of Horror" episodes, are available on Tubi.
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Jun 19, 2020 16:03
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Shrecknet posted:Thriller/Suspense is allowed, theres more to horror than gore and slashers That's fine by me, it's just something I realized and wasn't sure how we were classifying things. Also, ironically, I may end up voting Halloweentown 2 in this matchup if only for 1) I have strong nostalgia for that goofy movie and 2) Dead Ringers is not my favorite Cronenberg. Like, I know it's DOA but I gotta vote for the DCOM.
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Jun 19, 2020 16:25
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Dead Ringers isn't one of my top-3 Cronenberg's either but he's kinda like Carpenter, his resume is way deeper than just two or three great films. For most directors Dead Ringers would be considered a career defining masterpiece.
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Jun 19, 2020 16:28
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If nothing else, this thread has made me aware of the existence of the search function of justwatch.com (not using the app, just the website).
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Jun 19, 2020 16:45
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People are too dismissive of Paul Anderson - Event Horizon could have knocked out a lot of works by better directors, the first Resident Evil is fun, Pandorum is fine, the desert RE is surprisingly good too. Never heard of Survival Quest but I'm assuming its up against a trash RE, so rip Paul
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Jun 19, 2020 18:15
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I agree. Event Horizon is good, I like RE OG, RE dessert isn't a good film but has some fun elements and setting, Pandorum is ok. But like dessert RE isn't on his list and most of the RE sequels are super not good and having just rewatched Afterlife its real, real bad. Paul Anderson vs Don Coscarelli would have been a very interesting debate. Resident Evil vs Phantasm. Event Horizon vs Bubba Ho Tep. I really don't know who I would have voted for in that scenario. A very good pairing of flawed directors with a lot of lows, but also some real highs. But as it is I'm now gonna watch Survival Quest to see if it can manage to be less bad than Afterlife.
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Jun 19, 2020 18:26
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I'll be the one to out and say it: It's impossible not to at least partially consider the directors' body of work when making these votes. That includes where these films stand within those bodies of work. Like, ultimately the final deciding factor is the films up for discussion, but if you're pairing an obscure Coscarelli vs. a weak Resident Evil, it's hard not to consider "well he did make Phantasm, or but if this had been Event Horizon" when casting your vote. Because ultimately a director's style film-to-film is going to be part of what resonates. But this goes back to the Fulci vs. Ferrara fight here, where we actually have two very strong entries that are representative of their finest work. TrixRabbi fucked around with this message at 18:51 on Jun 19, 2020 |
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Jun 19, 2020 18:49
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