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al-azad posted:Doom 2 is the greatest set of game development tools released to the public but the example maps that came with the disc leave a lot to be desired. Yeah something like Plutonia does a much better job with the tools available than the base game did.
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Jun 19, 2020 02:59
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Duke Caribbean is the best game to use the Build engine.
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Jun 19, 2020 03:29
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i think if we're just comparing vanilla game to vanilla game, Duke 3D is absolutely better than Doom 2. Doom 2 is essentially mechanically perfect, but a large chunk of the levels it comes with just suck out loud, whereas Duke has better level design even at its low points and is mechanically good enough to not hamper that. e: mods, of course, drastically change this calculus; Duke mods end up running into its mechanical flaws pretty fast and, aside from a few really insane things like AMC TC and War of Attrition and Siege Breaker that are essentially entirely new games, isn't that interesting. Doom, however, you can do endless amounts of really crazy and cool poo poo without ever really making something that isn't "vanilla;" I can't really imagine a Duke equivalent to, say, BTSX or Eviternity. WeedlordGoku69 fucked around with this message at 04:14 on Jun 19, 2020 |
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Jun 19, 2020 04:11
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It's tough to compare anything to Doom's prolific online scene. I do love the many cool maps that are made for Duke 3D though. Vanilla as they may be, they're really cool, and some do push the limits in interesting ways with the limit removing type of stuff. Duke and Doom, that's a lot like root beer and ice cream. Just mix them together and throw it in your bathtub or pool, and jump in. Soak in the Duke and Doom of it all. Or Doom and Duke I should say, Doom gets front billing out of respect. Doom will watch out for Duke, keep him out of trouble, give him a safehouse etc. Quake and Half-Life are like uh like I think an ice cream cake, shaped like that M&M character. Also essential. And I'd like to have a Half-Life 3 themed flavor of Ben & Jerry's.
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Jun 19, 2020 04:35
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I don't know, I just feel like it's a lot easier to make a bad Duke map than a bad Doom map. Doom's mechanics are so perfectly tuned that basically any encounter in any design can be fun for somebody, and while you're limited in the type of puzzles you can do, switches give you a lot of fun tricks. Duke himself is way, way more of a glass cannon, so it's a lot easier to accidentally make fights where you get mulched unless you spam quicksaves, or you just stomp all over the enemy; you have to really carefully think about what tools the player's going to have and how much health they should have in any given situation, whereas you can be a little more freeform with Doom and still get a fun level. And while Duke gives you more tools for puzzles, I feel like they're also harder to get any real complexity out of since huge levels are comparatively way more of a chore in Duke (cough Smithsonian cough), and for some reason I just feel pacing breaks a lot harder in it so it's questionable if you even really want to get that complex with them. Pound for pound, though, Doom 2's vanilla levelset is roughly 75% bad Doom maps, whereas Duke's levelset is almost entirely good Duke maps. And while I'd rather play a bad Doom map than a bad Duke map any day, I'd rather play a good Duke map than a bad Doom one. And they're definitely in a close enough tier of quality that arguing about which is the better game is a little silly.
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Jun 19, 2020 04:45
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duke 3d owns and it's a shame it never got a real sequel
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Jun 19, 2020 06:33
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Duke Nukem episode 1 is fantastic. The rest sucks so very hard that Id rather play Doom 2 no question.
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Jun 19, 2020 09:19
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Does anyone here not own System Shock 1/2 but would like to play them?
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Jun 19, 2020 09:43
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doom 2 has a truly horrendous run of maps if you aren't doing mid-level saves. there is just too much fuckery and too many traps that burn through all your health and ammo. i'm looking at you, The Pit they're also amazingly loving ugly maps
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Jun 19, 2020 11:19
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ETPC posted:i pray that now that Raze is a thing, some genius will finally make mapping tools for Blood/Duke 3D/SW/RR that are able to be used by humans in 2020. mapster32 needs to be taken behind a shed and put out of its misery Apparently Graf's plan is to eventually support UDMF in Raze so that Build maps can be made with the modern Doom editors.
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Jun 19, 2020 12:04
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I like pretty much every episode in duke, even the 2nd. Doom 2 was my first doom and even then I thought the city maps were bad.
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Jun 19, 2020 15:01
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The HROT demo is fantastic. I love the way explosions leave corpses and gibs smoldering with patches of flame everywhere. I got 7/8 secrets but had to bail on the last one with 45 minutes spent on the level. Anyone find the silver key and can give me a hint?
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Jun 19, 2020 15:09
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treat posted:The HROT demo is fantastic. I love the way explosions leave corpses and gibs smoldering with patches of flame everywhere. I got 7/8 secrets but had to bail on the last one with 45 minutes spent on the level. Anyone find the silver key and can give me a hint? You need to mess with the rising pillar in the cathedral
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Jun 19, 2020 15:12
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HROT's achievements give away that you can ride the motorbike at the start The endless mode gives you a few more weapons to play with as well.
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Jun 19, 2020 15:41
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So, I haven’t played Gloomworld yet, but the existence of the shotgun etc., makes me wonder: have there been any games that try to do Thief again, for real? No (or nearly no) combat, medieval steampunk-ish, etc.? I mean I realize I’m just saying “is there a hidden direct sequel to Thief 2 I have somehow missed?” but, hey, I can hope.
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Jun 19, 2020 16:47
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Cat Mattress posted:Apparently Graf's plan is to eventually support UDMF in Raze so that Build maps can be made with the modern Doom editors. oh hell yes
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Jun 19, 2020 16:52
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Pathos posted:So, I haven’t played Gloomworld yet, but the existence of the shotgun etc., makes me wonder: have there been any games that try to do Thief again, for real? No (or nearly no) combat, medieval steampunk-ish, etc.? I mean I realize I’m just saying “is there a hidden direct sequel to Thief 2 I have somehow missed?” but, hey, I can hope. The Dark Mod is the obvious answer, although it not having a core experience created by a single team has always put me off of that just a little bit. Kind of irrational given how many hundreds of one-off Doom and Quake maps I still love to play, but maybe the stuff I love about Thief has a stronger involvement with the worldbuilding.
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Jun 19, 2020 16:55
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Anything in Raze that actually makes modding better or easier is probably waaay down the line priority wise, behind the intense and generally un-sexy code de-gunking effort. (One example from the to-do list: Making it so there's one video player that covers all the needed formats, instead of there being a different, separate one for each game with it's own different degrees of format support and weird hardcodedness)
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Jun 19, 2020 16:56
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JLaw posted:The Dark Mod is the obvious answer, although it not having a core experience created by a single team has always put me off of that just a little bit. Kind of irrational given how many hundreds of one-off Doom and Quake maps I still love to play, but maybe the stuff I love about Thief has a stronger involvement with the worldbuilding. Yeah, that was my worry. It sort of surprises me that no one has made a full retail clone-type thing of Thief. I think it’s popular enough? Dunno. Surprises me.
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Jun 19, 2020 17:09
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It's been a long time since I've played it but I remember Thief: Deadly Shadows being not that terrible. Definitely the worst one of the 3 but like, not an awful game if you want some sneak n' steal. I'm currently working my way through Thief 1 right now for the first time and I finally got past what I hope are the bulk of the zombie-heavy levels because I was really into the "sneak around a mansion" stuff but then it's just like... zombies all the way down. I really didn't enjoy the Hammer prison very much at all. The Bonehoard I actually did kinda like despite being extremely zombie heavy because it felt like a fun kind of Indiana Jones-ish tomb crawl type thing with traps and secrets that was fun, while running from the zombies everywhere. I'm glad to be back into sneaking past human guards again though.
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Jun 19, 2020 17:18
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Pathos posted:So, I haven’t played Gloomworld yet, but the existence of the shotgun etc., makes me wonder: have there been any games that try to do Thief again, for real? No (or nearly no) combat, medieval steampunk-ish, etc.? I mean I realize I’m just saying “is there a hidden direct sequel to Thief 2 I have somehow missed?” but, hey, I can hope. I thought this was basically what Dishonored was supposed to be? Modernized mechanics and skill trees and poo poo aside.
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Jun 19, 2020 17:25
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The Kins posted:Anything in Raze that actually makes modding better or easier is probably waaay down the line priority wise, behind the intense and generally un-sexy code de-gunking effort. (One example from the to-do list: Making it so there's one video player that covers all the needed formats, instead of there being a different, separate one for each game with it's own different degrees of format support and weird hardcodedness) look, the fact that there is even *a chance* of moving off of mapster32 gives me hope
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Jun 19, 2020 17:32
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caleb posted:I thought this was basically what Dishonored was supposed to be? Modernized mechanics and skill trees and poo poo aside. Dishonored can be like Thief but you are also encouraged to violently murder anyone who catches you so it's not quite the same. There's a part in Dishonored where you can find a couple of henchmen doing the Thief stealth tutorial
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Jun 19, 2020 17:37
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Injustice is free on PSN, XBL and Steam at the moment. Prob one of my favourite fighting games! (even though I never managed to be any good at it) edit: oops, wrong thread 
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Jun 19, 2020 17:48
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Weird Sandwich posted:L.A. Meltdown is good, but Shrapnel City is better. I love L.A. Meltdown but I agree that Shrapnel City is a better episode and has awesome urban maps. At least I don't feel alone now thinking that. Convex posted:Injustice is free on PSN, XBL and Steam at the moment. Prob one of my favourite fighting games! (even though I never managed to be any good at it) Pointing out free games (and good ones!) are never in a wrong thread. Crackdown 1, 2 and Too human are also free on Xbox Live along with Injustice, check out the DLCs since they made a lot of them free too!
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Jun 19, 2020 17:51
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haveblue posted:There's a part in Dishonored where you can find a couple of henchmen doing the Thief stealth tutorial This is great. I kind of went out of my way to not alert or fight anyone when I played Dishonored but I didn't get very far into it. Not FPS but I feel like Hitman would be the closest thing maybe. (E: gameplay not setting) I have not messed with The Dark Mod. caleb fucked around with this message at 18:13 on Jun 19, 2020 |
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Jun 19, 2020 18:09
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Duke 3d's second space station episode is the epitome of "gently caress it, we burned all our ideas on a great shareware demo. Um.... here's the scraps."
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Jun 19, 2020 18:29
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Narcissus1916 posted:Duke 3d's second space station episode is the epitome of "gently caress it, we burned all our ideas on a great shareware demo. Um.... here's the scraps." Ehh. It’s the weak sister of the game, but I still dug its aesthetic and how it felt more like a previous Duke entry made 3D than the rest of it.
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Jun 19, 2020 18:39
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caleb posted:This is great. Dishonored is one of my favorite games, and 1 you can easily play both ways, which is so rare these days. A cleans hands/ghost run (no kills/no one sees you) is pretty easy to do without upgrades, but becomes trivial once you max Blink, Agility, and Darkvision. Add in a fully upgraded crossbow and you can run through levels really quickly.
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Jun 19, 2020 18:42
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Duke 3D has the greatest urban environments of All Time
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Jun 19, 2020 18:42
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ghosting dishonored is fun as hell
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Jun 19, 2020 18:45
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one of the unfortunate failings of dishonored actually came about due to them giving a whole hell of a lot of tools to play with but a good bit of them not even being usable if you want to ghost a level. if they did something from the ground up based on just stealth it'd be cool.
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Jun 19, 2020 18:50
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It’s kind of hard to figure out what people want from Thief because even though combat isn’t a focus you still have the ability to brain someone instantly from behind so from a design standpoint it’s like “why not add magic powers and guns on top of this?” E: Neon Struct is the closest you’ll get to modern Thief. If I were pitching a modern Thief you could do the levels in any order but things change based on how you play. Love using water arrows? Torches are swapped out for lanterns. Club guys all the time? They start wearing helmets. Carpet is ripped up, caltrops are placed around windows, fun little escalations but the same core experience. al-azad fucked around with this message at 18:55 on Jun 19, 2020 |
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Jun 19, 2020 18:51
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Here's a question: Did anyone other than me get extremely burned out on Dishonored 2? I found myself really forcing myself to keep playing in the later chapters, mostly because (and I don't remember this being an issue for the first game but maybe I lost my patience for it) I got super sick of picking up collectibles. I couldn't really enjoy even the like, big setpiece level with the time shenanigans that everyone already knows about because I was just like "oh my god this game needs to end" because I didn't want to scavenge for another 3 fuckin runes and bonecharms again.
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Jun 19, 2020 18:57
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al-azad posted:If I were pitching a modern Thief you could do the levels in any order but things change based on how you play. Love using water arrows? Torches are swapped out for lanterns. Club guys all the time? They start wearing helmets. Carpet is ripped up, caltrops are placed around windows, fun little escalations but the same core experience. I would purchase this early access stealth game with an rear end in a top hat L4D2 director.
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Jun 19, 2020 19:15
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the lantern seller shows up at your door one day with a sack full of water arrows throws in the contents of his safe, too, he'll be filling it up again in no time thanks to you
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Jun 19, 2020 19:27
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I hated playing Neon Struct but the story and the mood and world it had were great, especially for a one man dev title. But the developer, despite clearly being such a huge fan of Thief and Deus Ex, didn't seem to get what made those games work at all. None of the level layouts felt like they facilitated intuitive stealth gameplay and the experience was overall let down by a complete lack of level music, which was bizarre, on top of a lack of any kind of ambient soundscape, so the main thing you'll be hearing 98% of the time while playing is the irritating clip clop of enemy footsteps.Glagha posted:Here's a question: Did anyone other than me get extremely burned out on Dishonored 2? I found myself really forcing myself to keep playing in the later chapters, mostly because (and I don't remember this being an issue for the first game but maybe I lost my patience for it) I got super sick of picking up collectibles. I couldn't really enjoy even the like, big setpiece level with the time shenanigans that everyone already knows about because I was just like "oh my god this game needs to end" because I didn't want to scavenge for another 3 fuckin runes and bonecharms again. I loved Dishonored 2 but a lot of modern games do have this issue where I feel like my eyes are spending more time scanning for pickups rather than looking at where I'm going and D2 was no exception. That being said both Dishonored games have the dumbest loving morality system and Death of the Outsiders' axing of it was its best feature (next to starring a black lesbian badass  )
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Jun 19, 2020 19:29
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Yeah I guess there's something about really high detail environments that makes my brain get a bit stuck in comparison to the Spartan look of Deus Ex or Thief. I wonder if there will be a minimalistic DE successor one day.
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Jun 19, 2020 19:49
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I get way more out of Dishonored 2 watching StealthGamerBR videos, which are terrifying in their exactitude
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Jun 19, 2020 19:57
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Glagha posted:It's been a long time since I've played it but I remember Thief: Deadly Shadows being not that terrible. Definitely the worst one of the 3 but like, not an awful game if you want some sneak n' steal. Good answer! I would go further than "not awful" and say it is quite good. :-) Especially these days with quick level loading (and I hear there's even a mod that removes a lot of the level loads).
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Jun 19, 2020 20:33
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