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I liked dark souls 2.
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Jun 20, 2020 15:29
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I never bother with multiplayer apart from one time some arsehole invaded me and threw acid something at me and broke all my stuff
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Jun 20, 2020 15:40
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Going back to Demon Souls emulation chat: anyone got a recommendation for a PS3 emulator? Does the game run well? I was never too interested in Demon Souls before the remake announcement, but the excitement has been contagious.
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Jun 20, 2020 15:45
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In DS2 I liked putting down a red soap stone sign at the bridge in front of the Old Iron Keep and getting summoned for bridge duels.
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Jun 20, 2020 16:02
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Kite Pride Worldwide posted:DS2's multiplayer is a hot garbage fire and enormously worse than the rest of the series; how could anyone think it's the best? I can write a laundry list of everything wrong with it off the top of my head and I haven't even played the game in years.
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Jun 20, 2020 16:03
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IronicDongz posted:lots of people who never actually put time into ds2 pvp say it's the best pvp in the series, you gotta wait for someone who mentions ice rapier to come around so you know they actually played it and understand it's not very good lol I had a great time PvPing in DS2, even when dealing with the Ice Rapier. I could barely get the multiplayer to loving work in most of the other games. Demon's Souls had its own problems, and now the servers are shut down.
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Jun 20, 2020 16:07
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Dark souls 2 pros: Huge build variety Very fun PVP (rolling into dragon eggs to wake up the dragons while invading in Dragon Aerie is incredibly fun) The pursuer. Especially the double pursuer fight In the throne room Majula is beautiful Emerald Herald is the best waifu Pate/Creighton Llewelyn set + dark mask = best 80s metal fashion souls Dark souls 2 cons: Complainers. The run to the smelter demon Black gulch if you play through it properly.
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Jun 20, 2020 16:12
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King of Solomon posted:I had a great time PvPing in DS2, even when dealing with the Ice Rapier. I could barely get the multiplayer to loving work in most of the other games. Demon's Souls had its own problems, and now the servers are shut down. the original ds1 is the only game that had problems like that, where due to the hosed server infrastructure you needed DSCM to make most connections not silently fail. ds2, ds3, ds1 remastered and bloodborne all have roughly the same level of functioning matchmaking with bad netcode and game balance. if you enjoyed it that's fine, I'm talking about people who say it's the most balanced when stuff like jester chest nullifying backstabs and engraved bracelets giving you a random chance of 50% more damage or ice rapier or hexes exist GutBomb posted:Emerald Herald is the best waifu LazyMaybe fucked around with this message at 16:18 on Jun 20, 2020 |
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Jun 20, 2020 16:15
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I can have meaningful PvP with a dual wield Whip build in DS2, or a poison caestus puncher, or a melee/caster hybrid. I can have a shield in one hand and a pyro glove in the other to cast literally every spell in the game. I can then two-hand the (lefthand) shield and do absurd amounts of damage with it. The amount of actually working fun builds you can do in DS2 is infinite, and if you've only played it with a single greatsword, you are missing THE best part of the game. Powerstanced spears that both have a projectile! UGS double slam in fire and magic explosion flavor! Hex-based crossbow insanity! I've played through DS2 with all of the above, btw. It's not just random examples.
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Jun 20, 2020 16:20
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IronicDongz posted:the original ds1 is the only game that had problems like that, where due to the hosed server infrastructure you needed DSCM to make most connections not silently fail. ds2, ds3, ds1 remastered and bloodborne all have roughly the same level of functioning matchmaking with bad netcode and game balance. Bloodborne's multiplayer systems were a nightmare. I spent a ton of time with them, and eventually just gave up because even when it worked it wasn't fun. DS3's I didn't spend much time with, but wasn't super impressed by my first impressions. Maybe if I found the right place to multiplayer I would have had a better time, but I doubt it. Plus, with the balance being what it was at launch, I really don't think I would have enjoyed it very much. I didn't try with DS1 remastered, glad they made it actually work.
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Jun 20, 2020 16:25
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ds3 with wex dust(mod that lets you search every game area for invasions at once) is by far the most fun I've had in dark souls pvp. killing legions of bad giantdad imitators on release in ds1 remaster with gimmicky builds a solid second place.
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Jun 20, 2020 16:30
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DS2 is fun and has a good world but it looks like dogshit and is way too long.
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Jun 20, 2020 16:38
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King of Solomon posted:Compared to the size of the soul memory ranges, the amount of souls your average player will lose over the course of a game is insignificant. When I say you have to do a ton of PvP or boss co-op without the ring, I mean you have to wind up gathering millions of excess souls. maybe I play dark souls too much, but millions of excess souls seems pretty easy to hit? It even counts the souls you lost when you died so it's really easy balloon your SM I felt like making a pros and cons of DS2: Pros - Majula is very pretty and visually distinct from the other series hubs. - Power stance is neat in concept. - Some of the covenants were pretty fun and original, at least on release. Rat covenant was hilarious in the first few weeks. - honest attempts were made to improve or replace designs from DS, like the UI, wider range of spells and weapons etc. - the arenas in DS2 has been the only time the system has reliably worked for me in any of the DS games. - a few unique and memorable (but not necessary fun to fight) bosses. - Introduced giant seeds. One of my favourite items in the series. Cons - Graphically the game looks unfinished and ugly most of the time. I'm talking textures that look like a PS2 game, MANY areas that look like you've stepped into an unfinished testing zone, where they forgot to bake the lighting... - Soul memory was a terrible system that actively discourages playing the PvE side of the game and limits builds. It also actively increases the chance new players would fight twinks. - Having enemies stop re-spawning after a very low set number of times is an awful change. It made acquiring items and souls harder, limiting builds. It also makes the world feel emptier... - It was laughable to call most of the bosses a boss at all. Remember the Hides boss you could kill in seconds by stepping to the side, causing him to fall to his death? The first boss you fight is a pair of skinny legs you hit a few times. Just lol. - Movement feels stiff, janky and broken. It feels like one of those cheap knock off souls games on steam. - Level design is a HUGE step down compared to any other From game. Both in terms of layout and visuals. - Level placement and world consistency was an absolute joke. I don't mind having separate levels vs an interconnected world in DS1, but having poo poo like climbing up that mud castle, going up an elevator, and then ending up underground in lava world was... common and ridiculous. - An easily breakable healing system similar to DeS apparently. - Barely any memorable NPCs and fewer quests. Majula cat is cool though. - I will never forgive DS2 for ruining the best covenant in the series, the Darkmoon Blades. Blue sentinels sucks in comparison >: (
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Jun 20, 2020 16:49
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Moola posted:maybe I play dark souls too much, but millions of excess souls seems pretty easy to hit? It even counts the souls you lost when you died so it's really easy balloon your SM When I say excess, I basically mean souls that you wouldn't get if you were playing the game normally. So, basically, souls from helping fight bosses in co-op, PvP, souls from grinding drops, and souls you permanently lost. 1 and 2 I described in my previous post, and unless you're incredibly bad at the game, you'll MAYBE crack 100k permanently lost souls. The idea that you'd get to 2.5 mil souls when everyone else (in the same part of the game as you) playing the game normally is at 1 mil without doing a bunch of co-op or PvP is just ridiculous.
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Jun 20, 2020 16:59
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soul memory mechanically works pretty well because it's so lenient, but still not any better at preventing twinking than normal sl or sl+wl matchmaking, so it's at best a lateral move. realistically it's worse than that because the psychological component of soul memory where it makes people constantly worry about how many souls they're accumulating is very real.
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Jun 20, 2020 17:02
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fuckwolf posted:Going back to Demon Souls emulation chat: anyone got a recommendation for a PS3 emulator? Does the game run well? RPCS3 is the only game in town when I last checked. Runs very well, though I needed to go back to an older build because I would always get a crash in the first zone. The only glitch was like, there's three shields whose models wouldn't render for some bizarre reason. e: Oh, and the giant heart in the tower of latria, which was kind of disappointing. Arrhythmia fucked around with this message at 17:18 on Jun 20, 2020 |
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Jun 20, 2020 17:16
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Soul Memory is a thing that people make out to be way more impactful than it really is. Unless you're trying to force a low-level twink build with endgame items (which is what the system was designed to prevent) or park yourself at a boss for co-op long-term, you likely won't notice it's there. Just tell yourself it doesn't matter, play like it doesn't exist, and you'll have a much more enjoyable time. Bell tower, Iron Keep bridge, and BoB arena pvp were all a blast.
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Jun 20, 2020 17:36
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Paracelsus posted:Soul Memory is a thing that people make out to be way more impactful than it really is. also people who know how to game it with the agape ring can twink really hard in ds2, it's much worse at preventing that than the sl+wl matchmaking in ds3/ds1r.
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Jun 20, 2020 17:44
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I'm probably one of the most vociferous defenders of DS2 around here, but its PVP had a huge number of oversights. Hexes being unbelievably busted at launch, the Ice Rapier being way too strong, the hilarious months of the Monastery Scimitar having instant parry frames, Soul Memory being a mess pre-Agape Ring, systems like the Mirror Squire in a game without authoritative servers, the numerous methods of circumventing Soul Memory's intended purpose (everyone seems to forget about Simpleton's Spice), etc. Granted, I didn't find the PVP in any of the three games particularly well thought-out or implemented, but DS2 is no saint in this regard.
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Jun 20, 2020 17:53
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BaconCopter posted:Why is DS2 your favorite? I know you didn't ask me, but I like all the Dark Soul games about the same amount, just in different ways. None of them pull on my "first one I played" nostalgia (I started with Demon's Souls) or have supremely stand out stories, aesthetics, #Lore, music, etc. that push them ahead the way Bloodborne and Sekiro rise above them for me. The three Dark Souls games have different pros and cons that effectively even out in my mind, but I get how personal preference would push one above or behind the others, too. For me, the things that bug me most about DS2 are clearly a product of having to rush it out the door, and I mostly just feel bad for those things rather than annoyed. As far as multiplayer goes, DS2 at least pulls ahead of DS3, where nowadays multiplayer amounts to low level schlumping in the Wolfbro covenant against 3 guys in endgame loadouts or https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_-uUkuk3OoA The Obscuring Ring alone makes pvp miserable in 3 against anyone you don't catch by surprise or who's got any semblance of good taste. Nuns with Guns fucked around with this message at 18:18 on Jun 20, 2020 |
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Jun 20, 2020 18:04
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Nuns with Guns posted:As far as multiplayer goes, DS2 at least pulls ahead of DS3, where nowadays multiplayer amounts to low level schlumping in the Wolfbro covenant against 3 guys in endgame loadouts or no one's making you do these things... you can just invade elsewhere. if you use wex dust you get invasions across basically every area in the game(relevant to your level of course), and you still frequently encounter people just playing through the game normally. the video you linked is by saint riot who uses wex dust constantly and only goes to gank city specifically when he wants to roll around in the mud and record some degeneracy. more frequently than any of the other games at this point, you still have a reasonable amount of new players in ds3 since it goes on sale often and has the biggest player population of any of them. not as much as close to launch, but that goes for any of these games-it's been over 4 years. ds3's population has done pretty well considering that. if we're comparing to ds2, ds2's online multiplayer is pretty desolate compared to ds3's except for when people do "return to drangleic" events.
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Jun 20, 2020 18:17
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The only bad thing about DS2 is that the bosses’ lifebars work differently than other games
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Jun 20, 2020 18:18
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guys I'm about to play DeS for the first time on emulator wish me luck
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Jun 20, 2020 18:19
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IronicDongz posted:of course when you go to the low level twinking area covenant location you get low level twinking, of course you when you go to gank city you get ganks. Every Souls game is going to have desolate multiplayer activity right now outside of "let's coordinate a mass replay" event though? The games are between 4 and 10 years old. Saying "you can use a mod to fix this" is a cheap cop out when the mod only helps on PC anyway and the game offers in-game mechanics that make it actively less fun to engage in PvP. Oh and going back to funny/sad things about DS2: Moola posted:- Level placement and world consistency was an absolute joke. I don't mind having separate levels vs an interconnected world in DS1, but having poo poo like climbing up that mud castle, going up an elevator, and then ending up underground in lava world was... common and ridiculous. The funny thing about the sky volcano elevator is if you look at the original cinematic trailer for 2, you can see they clearly planned to have an actual realistic walk up to the Iron Keep: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=U6uyuIQYlfY Apparently Harvest Valley was the most "finished" level they had, so they just dumped a bunch of incongruent enemies in it that were half-working and stapled the Iron Keep at the end because whatever they were originally working on was in a much poorer state. (Also lol at how 90% of the footage in the reveal trailer is of areas with no in-game equivalent.)
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Jun 20, 2020 18:23
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so enemies have quite a bit more health + you need way more souls to level with cinders right?
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Jun 20, 2020 18:23
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Nuns with Guns posted:Every Souls game is going to have desolate multiplayer activity right now outside of "let's coordinate a mass replay" event though? The games are between 4 and 10 years old. Saying "you can use a mod to fix this" is a cheap cop out when the mod only helps on PC anyway and the game offers in-game mechanics that make it actively less fun to engage in PvP. it's not a cheap cop out for anyone who's on PC(frankly I assume most people in this thread are) and obscuring ring is a net benefit because it allows you to distance yourself from the host and his gang of summoned phantoms and harass them while they refuse to leave the bonfire until they actually go out and play the level, instead of waiting until the lone invader gets bored and suicides by walking into their massed r1s. I have almost never ran into hosts that (effectively)use obscuring ring to hide over hundreds of invasions, and when that happens you can just black crystal and it's not like you're missing a good fight. also speaking of saint riot here's a good video about cut demon's souls content that may wind up in the remaster https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=CgdUMBqK4I4
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Jun 20, 2020 18:31
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Jose posted:so enemies have quite a bit more health + you need way more souls to level with cinders right?
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Jun 20, 2020 18:34
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https://twitter.com/wendysnowradish/status/1273744697928962048?s=21
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Jun 20, 2020 18:37
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IronicDongz posted:ds3 doesn't have desolate multiplayer compared to ds2 is my point, especially with wex dust. I mean sure, you're not missing out on a good fight either way, but I don't see how long-distance invisibility benefits an invader more than a host when the host is already inclined to camp in a safe spot of the level. They're not there to clear out the level, usually, they're there to dogpile hapless invaders. If you're dealing with a fully-kitted-out gank squad they're just as likely to wait for you to feed them, or wait for you to leave in either situation. Even if a phantom gets antsy and chases you, the host just needs to run back to their sign and re-summon them. Being able to go invisible at a distance, too, only makes it that much more annoying to clear out a gank squad. e- In conclusion, DS3 is the worst game in the universe because I can't do this to a swarm of phantoms and their host: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=nhO3Dtp7Vus https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7VYhMLMUGKo Nuns with Guns fucked around with this message at 18:54 on Jun 20, 2020 |
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Jun 20, 2020 18:45
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Nuns with Guns posted:I mean sure, you're not missing out on a good fight either way, but I don't see how long-distance invisibility benefits an invader more than a host when the host is already inclined to camp in a safe spot of the level. They're not there to clear out the level, usually, they're there to dogpile hapless invaders. If you're dealing with a fully-kitted-out gank squad they're just as likely to wait for you to feed them, or wait for you to leave in either situation. Even if a phantom gets antsy and chases you, the host just needs to run back to their sign and re-summon them. Being able to go invisible at a distance, too, only makes it that much more annoying to clear out a gank squad.
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Jun 20, 2020 18:57
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IronicDongz posted:ds3 doesn't have desolate multiplayer compared to ds2 is my point, especially with wex dust. Just as an aside, you shouldn't need a mod to know where to do multiplayer, that was a problem DS2 solved, and they brought forward a bunch of DS2 concepts in DS3.
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Jun 20, 2020 18:58
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Literally stanning the multiplayer in the souls game that has soul memory and no uncracked orbs loving lol
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Jun 20, 2020 19:04
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Moola posted:Cons how in the gently caress is this a con
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Jun 20, 2020 19:05
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IronicDongz posted:Gank squad players usually are not very good or patient, otherwise they wouldn't be part of a gank squad. When you start pelting people who are hanging around the bonfire with millwood greatarrows and they can't respond, almost nobody will just stay there forever. They start moving forwards to come find you and get you to stop doing that, and you can find opportunities to get hits in as they advance through the level and often can get them fighting enemies. Even if you can annoy them with arrows, I don't think the invisibility of the obscuring ring is that beneficial to luring them out versus not having it on. Like at best it stops them from knowing where to fire back, but I don't think it's such a vital part of the invader's kit in the great fight against gankers that it justifies its existence or how it's a drag on PvP as a whole. feelix posted:Literally stanning the multiplayer in the souls game that has soul memory and no uncracked orbs loving lol I never got why there's no normal red or blue eye orbs in 2, honestly. There's a lot of things in DS2's multiplayer system that feels more like they were throwing a million half-baked ideas at the wall and ended up over-correcting after the complaints about low level twink invaders in 1.
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Jun 20, 2020 19:07
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I still don’t understand why people conflate pvp and invasions and summoning as if they are the same thing even after all this time. Soul memory didn’t effect base gameplay, you could run through and summon and play just fine. If you were doing high level pvp that wasn’t an issue either unless you were constantly rerolling characters, and that was a waste of time because you could respec infinitely in game. The best thing about ds2 invasions was disabling estus and the time limit. Made you have to fight and most areas weren’t big enough to hide in. They screwed up some of the covenants but they do that in every game and you could still get them done. I don’t argue about level design that seems too personal.
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Jun 20, 2020 19:37
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Invasions and summoning are intrinsically linked by the very good design that summoning opens you up to invasions, except in dark souls 2 because that game is made by people who don't understand souls games
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Jun 20, 2020 19:42
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Level design in DS2 is often lacking, even I as a big lover of the game have to admit that. Shame, but I won't argue. Soul Memory for me is only an issue because at some point the automatic Bell summons dry up. Otherwise I don't care. Reds arena is super simple to get duel hits in, or Iron Keep bridge, that's fine for me. Yes, invasions and blues don't really work, but blues don't really work in DS3 either...bell PvP is all I need.
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Jun 20, 2020 19:44
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feelix posted:Literally stanning the multiplayer in the souls game that has soul memory and no uncracked orbs loving lol Yeah, it's wild that the other games' multiplayer is actually worse than that, huh? The bar is so low, and yet they can't cross it.
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Jun 20, 2020 19:50
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hanales posted:The best thing about ds2 invasions was disabling estus you have to use healing spells if you want to heal, there's a time limit so hosts with friends can easily lame you out, no actual red eye orb. "gently caress you if you want to invade", the game King of Solomon posted:Yeah, it's wild that the other games' multiplayer is actually worse than that, huh? The bar is so low, and yet they can't cross it. LazyMaybe fucked around with this message at 19:54 on Jun 20, 2020 |
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Jun 20, 2020 19:50
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feelix posted:Invasions and summoning are intrinsically linked by the very good design that summoning opens you up to invasions, except in dark souls 2 because that game is made by people who don't understand souls games Unhollowing/embering opens you to invasions, summoning itself only opens you to invaders in Bloodborne. I know that sounds nitpicky, but there are other acts tied to unhollowing (kindling bonfires) and embering (you get embered for free after beating a boss and you get that health boost that can make the difference in a hard fight) that might lead you to entering that state without wanting to summon, and you might be disincentivized from doing so because you don't want to waste some semi-limited resources at that time on the chance of a mean phantom showing up. I'm not dumping on this, I think all the different conditions have interesting variations in pros/cons. I'm not really a fan of the possibility of being invaded even while hollow in 2, though you're such a low priority that you'll almost never encounter someone who's not a scripted NPC invader that it's more of a lateral move to me, like how IronicDongz described the soul memory mechanic. I do agree there's a lot of different quirks and irritants to each of the Souls games' takes on player-to-player interaction and covenants in general, but I doubt we'll ever get an experience that satisfies everyone since From seems disinterested in an "optimal" PvP environment. Instead, treating summoning as a short-term jolly cooperation to plow through a boss, and treating PvP as organized chaos where players make their own fun. That's obviously got its own charm a lot of people (me) love, but that's the trade off.
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Jun 20, 2020 19:56
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