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The stupid thing about gamers is that a lot of them only remember to be woke when it's a game they don't actually want to buy. I don't remember nearly as much controversy or calls for boycott over RDR2 despite the fact that the actual gameplay is more violent (not the cutscenes), there's lots of dog murder, Game of Thrones style character shock deaths, and it also had terrible working conditions. I'm not saying that the criticisms of TLOU2 are wrong but there's clearly a large chunk of people that wouldn't be complaining about the violence/labour issues if they thought the game or the story would be good. There's plenty of bad faith to go around. I guess we'll see when the next God of War/Witcher 4/GTA come out.
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Jun 20, 2020 18:24
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Bonaventure posted:I hope everyone feels bad about the misogyny, transphobia and racism you’re not engaging in, but which I told the mod forum you were. this one's actually is a chud though
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Jun 20, 2020 18:25
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I also thought RDR2 was bad art and bad game
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Jun 20, 2020 18:25
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The funny thing is the wandering around part is the fun part for me kinda, but there’s a clock running down on that
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Jun 20, 2020 18:26
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Stux posted:nice av Thanks, nice to know you like it. I assume you're agreeing with my post in addition to admiring my avatar since you almost emptyposted it.
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Jun 20, 2020 18:27
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RottenK posted:A thing I remember about trainwrecks like Andromeda or Anthem is that they would have defenders and detractors before release, but after coming out they'd sell like hotcakes at first because most gamers aren't actually online nerds like us and don't follow any of the news or online discourse, but then the games would quickly drop off as these people would start playing and see the game sucks. I think different people look for different things from their games and that's fine. The things that I found incredibly grating and ok boomer in Death Stranding other people found really profound. That's just how it is.
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Jun 20, 2020 18:27
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Peacoffee posted:I suppose this is the proper place to say that it is interesting as people start playing to hear some players balk at the “alt-righters” complaints about the game and then mention they are like 3 hours in. The same thing happened with Ghostbusters, where alt-righters made everyone want to defend it on political rather than artistic grounds. The irony of this LGBT+ "controversy" is that TLOU2 very obviously follows in a tradition of shocking art violence that is mostly made by and appeals to dudes* (generally straight white dudes, although this may just be a side effect of how many straight white dudes are in creative leadership positions). Call of Duty tries to do it all the time. Irreversible, Serbian Film, Funny Games, The Road, Full Metal Jacket, Clockwork Orange all did it**. Lets be honest, if instead of a gay woman Ellie was a straight guy revenging his father figure by murdering the poo poo out of everyone who wronged him, all these alt-right losers would be jizzing over what a masterpiece it was, probably. * Which is not to say women can't be depicted commiting violence or enjoy its thrills, only that extreme bleak violence is well-tread territory when it comes to male creativity, and I don't think TLOU2 adds much or is even as good or interesting as many of the films listed (and has an additional problem from trying to mash a movie story into a video game structure, which is that the death of one protagonist by the other should be emotionally impactful for both the viewer and remaining character, but instead you reload a checkpoint and the violence inflicted means nothing). ** And don't get me wrong, many of these are good movies. I loved, loved, loved Clockwork Orange when I was a teenaged boy--it was ultraviolent and there were tits everywhere but there was also like an interesting message to it, you know? But too many video games (especially AAA games that need visceral, easily digestible gameplay loops) tend to be closer to the Serbian Film/Irreversible end of the scale, where the violence is harrowing and unrelenting but there's little thematic depth beyond "whoa, people sure enjoy punching and/or raping each other all the time" RottenK posted:Joel's Xtreme Golfing scene doesn't piss them off either and they like Ellie and Dina. From what I've seen the vast majority of people LOVE Detroit Become Human. I think most of it sucks except for maybe some of the Conner and Hank bits. Maybe I'm a dumb hipster elitist, who knows 
emoticon fucked around with this message at 18:42 on Jun 20, 2020 |
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Jun 20, 2020 18:29
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https://twitter.com/RLewisReports/status/1274197145441013760?s=20
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Jun 20, 2020 18:31
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wow, that couldve been like 6 bucks of store credit
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Jun 20, 2020 18:38
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Very interesting, I wonder what RedPillDuke would have to say
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Jun 20, 2020 18:48
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Panzeh posted:I think different people look for different things from their games and that's fine. The things that I found incredibly grating and ok boomer in Death Stranding other people found really profound. That's just how it is. same. i liked parts of death stranding and i like what it did do and its a cool expirement but its just not for me. not because "hurr no combat" but because i hate when everything is tied to stamina meters/meters in general and while i love kojima and his weird poo poo, its too meta for my taste. still like the industry is big enough for games like that to be sucessful.
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Jun 20, 2020 18:50
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Starks posted:The stupid thing about gamers is that a lot of them only remember to be woke when it's a game they don't actually want to buy. I don't remember nearly as much controversy or calls for boycott over RDR2 despite the fact that the actual gameplay is more violent (not the cutscenes), there's lots of dog murder, Game of Thrones style character shock deaths, and it also had terrible working conditions. I'm not saying that the criticisms of TLOU2 are wrong but there's clearly a large chunk of people that wouldn't be complaining about the violence/labour issues if they thought the game or the story would be good. There's plenty of bad faith to go around. agreed sorta. that being said i loved RDR2 outside the horrible poo poo that rockstar work enviroment/etc. i think RDR2 while violence is a big part, its not the only thing and thats not really the core/only theme. its a ton of different themes and the writting is pretty great through out. but i agree with your argument.
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Jun 20, 2020 18:53
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I feel like talking about “gamers” in abstract is just a race to bottom here
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Jun 20, 2020 18:56
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wait a minute... he did NOT just do t hat omg!!!
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Jun 20, 2020 18:57
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If only two opposing types of stupid post cancelled each other out.
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Jun 20, 2020 18:58
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owning naughtydog by buying and playing their game and then destroying my disc i paid for
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Jun 20, 2020 18:58
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i amused how divisive this game is beyond the usual political culture war poo poo. like its beyond the woke/chud fights because i have seen folks on both sides either hate or love it.
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Jun 20, 2020 18:59
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It's a bummer this game can't get real criticism because of how politically charged it is. Like I said earlier, most people that dislike it are getting branded as alt-right bigots because you have to like anything progressive because it's progress you see! Look at how they put two women into a relationship! No one has done that before! A lot of people calling the dude Cuckman too doesn't help, it just makes it sound petty and you lose all credibility to criticize it, and then everyones just like, see it's just the bigots that hate this game, fueling the polarization of it. Thankfully Ghost of Tsushima is out next month and I bet all this will die down by then.
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Jun 20, 2020 18:59
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Detroit has some of the most impressive branching storytelling I've ever seen. The Hank and Conner stuff is good because I think they ended up writing their own dialogue and ignoring Cage's poo poo, which is why it works so well. Cage still sucks though. I also hated RDR2. Wish I never paid for it. That game has made me much more aware of what content is in games and if it's actually fun or not. lol drat that guy rules
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Jun 20, 2020 18:59
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I don't think this is an Andromeda or Anthem situation, the game looks and plays OK and has a reasonable amount of content. It's just the writing isn't anywhere close to what the rapturous early reviews and developer interviews promised.
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Jun 20, 2020 18:59
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Irony Be My Shield posted:I don't think this is an Andromeda or Anthem situation, the game looks and plays OK and has a reasonable amount of content. It's just the writing isn't anywhere close to what the rapturous early reviews and developer interviews promised. it's bioshock infinite again
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Jun 20, 2020 19:02
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emoticon posted:From what I've seen the vast majority of people LOVE Detroit Become Human. I think most of it sucks except for maybe some of the Conner and Hank bits. Maybe I'm a dumb hipster elitist, who knows now that I think of it, the disparity between how much we all mock and make fun of David Cage's embarassing, bad games vs how well they always do and how popular Detroit specifically is should've made me wonder if we're horribly out of touch much earlier
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Jun 20, 2020 19:03
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The issues are definitely not production values, that’s what keeps drawing me in. Brother Entropy posted:it's bioshock infinite again My god that’s it
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Jun 20, 2020 19:03
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Irony Be My Shield posted:I don't think this is an Andromeda or Anthem situation, the game looks and plays OK and has a reasonable amount of content. It's just the writing isn't anywhere close to what the rapturous early reviews and developer interviews promised. probably. the writing seems to be on par with uncharted 4, which has some really good moments and interesting stuff but wasnt anything new and also liked to be up its own rear end in a top hat too much. the issue is while 4 had some interesting themes and some fun growth of characters. Last of us 2 is basically trying to be cormac mccarthy in terms of grit but nothing beyond that. the issue is genuin interesting criticism will probably come after the heat dies down. right now its turned into a culture war with most of the user reviews being "its SJW GAY GARBAGE, NO POLITCS IN MY GAMES". i'll be curious to see folks like Noah Caldwell-Gervais talk about it. Dapper_Swindler fucked around with this message at 19:09 on Jun 20, 2020 |
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Jun 20, 2020 19:03
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Brother Entropy posted:it's bioshock infinite again id say bioshock infinite was worse for a variety of reasons but there are definitely similarities.
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Jun 20, 2020 19:04
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This tweet is wrong - as far as I'm aware The Last of Us 2 has not raped anyone.
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Jun 20, 2020 19:06
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Ended up reading a wiki synopsis of this game. It sounds grim as hell, but honestly, I think Joel had it coming. I loving hated the ending of TLOU1 and thought Joel was the world's biggest monster for dooming humanity all in the name of a single person. I don't care if she was his surrogate daughter. I would happily sacrifice myself or any number of my family members if it meant saving the world because it is the right thing to do. No life is inherently worth more than other, especially the whole world's.
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Jun 20, 2020 19:10
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AceOfFlames posted:Ended up reading a wiki synopsis of this game. It sounds grim as hell, but honestly, I think Joel had it coming. I loving hated the ending of TLOU1 and thought Joel was the world's biggest monster for dooming humanity all in the name of a single person. I don't care if she was his surrogate daughter. I would happily sacrifice any number of my family members if it meant saving the world because it is the right thing to do. No life is inherently worth more than other, especially the whole world's. this. joel is a selfish bad dad who died the day his daughter did and has only been making the world a worse place since. like the entire ending of 1 is joel was selfish and made a bad rotten choice.
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Jun 20, 2020 19:12
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but since Mankind Is The Real Monster(tm), wouldnt his decision to doom humanity make him the real hero
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Jun 20, 2020 19:17
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one fun thing about this game: it has an accessibility option for stealth where if you are prone or crawling you become instantly invisible to all enemies forever. a guy can spot you, start firing at you, and as soon as you scoot down they instantly forget about you
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Jun 20, 2020 19:20
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Not to take away from his selfishness but the Fireflies were shown to be just as flawed and useless in TLOU1. All they would've done is killing Ellie. They would not have developed the cure, again at least as written in TLOU1. This got retconned in 2 but just from the fact that they are kicked out of every relevant area, aren't wanted by other revolutionaries, can't handle simple science like with the monkies, and need to hire two random murderers who they just met to transport their one and only cure for humanity cross country show that they are just fixated on the cure as an easy solution to return things to how they were. It might as well be their religion. It doesn't make Joel entirely right, but the Fireflies aren't good or useful either.
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Jun 20, 2020 19:21
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dont youre going to resummon all the people who love joel
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Jun 20, 2020 19:22
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It’s the same problem over and over: none of these people would have actually lived this long in zombiemushroomerica
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Jun 20, 2020 19:23
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0 rows returned posted:but since Mankind Is The Real Monster(tm), wouldnt his decision to doom humanity make him the real hero i'm not sure if that's the message of the game. humanity isn't really painted as inherently evil from what i've seen, it just goes over the top hard on the "revenge bad" stuff and the amount of bad things that happen to the people involved in the story as part of it trying to hammer in the theme make the story very bleak but like, there's a whole community of people that Ellie and Joel have lived in for years before the game starts, who are legit rebuilding and working together, and as far as I know they're never revealed to be secretly evil or get massacred in some catastrophe
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Jun 20, 2020 19:24
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if ellie had learned the importance of killing those who would threaten the people you care about from joel maybe she'd still have all her fingers
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Jun 20, 2020 19:30
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AceOfFlames posted:Ended up reading a wiki synopsis of this game. It sounds grim as hell, but honestly, I think Joel had it coming. And he gets it. Now what? You have the overwhelming majority of the story to go after that, and the end result of it all is....I don't know, like 90% of the people you see die. Nothing is learned. Everyone is miserable and broken who survived the experience, which isn't even a surprise because they were miserable and broken for all the time before that. Revenge gains you nothing, but abandoning revenge gains you nothing either. Life is meaningless, and then you die, because you are loving moron and you deserve it. Which brings us back to the joke answer: If Joel doomed humanity he's a hero, because the humanity of TLoU2 doesn't deserve to exist.
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Jun 20, 2020 19:31
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I dont think the game wanted to be nihilistic, i think it hosed up the message it wanted to tell beyond people bad and we are the monster all along.
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Jun 20, 2020 19:40
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Eimi posted:Not to take away from his selfishness but the Fireflies were shown to be just as flawed and useless in TLOU1. All they would've done is killing Ellie. They would not have developed the cure, again at least as written in TLOU1. This got retconned in 2 but just from the fact that they are kicked out of every relevant area, aren't wanted by other revolutionaries, can't handle simple science like with the monkies, and need to hire two random murderers who they just met to transport their one and only cure for humanity cross country show that they are just fixated on the cure as an easy solution to return things to how they were. It might as well be their religion. Also the first thing they jump to when handed the only known example of asymptomatic infection is to try and kill her and cut her open in the belief they can just pull the "cure" out of her. I have a friend who is a biologist who went positively apoplectic at how idiotic and unscientific their methodology was. "Let's cut the goose open and get all the eggs at once" was invoked.
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Jun 20, 2020 19:42
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You don't need to be a biologist to see that, the end of TLOU was clearly supposed to invoke "Joel is a monster who saved his surrogate daughter and hosed over the world in the process." while what the actual text supports is that Joel did nothing wrong in killing the fireflies and saving Ellie and that the only thing he could have done better is kill more fireflies.
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Jun 20, 2020 19:49
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cinema sin number 1: why didnt the game delve deep into biology and take 3 hours to explain why in the wasteland the options available to them are limited
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Jun 20, 2020 19:53
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