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Ok Comboomer posted:That’s exactly what I expect them to do. Presumably it's a relatively simple jump to hurdle as there are existing ARM workstations that use Radeon GPUs.. badjohny posted:I would bet that is one of the last things to move to ARM. Also Apple could still support AMD GPUs in their ARM systems. No technical reason it would not work. Not saying they will, but they could.
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Jun 22, 2020 22:26
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xgalaxy posted:So is Apple going to be licensing the thunderbolt technology from Intel to use in their custom Apple SoCs? I am pretty sure Apple was one of the developers with intel to make thunderbolt. I doubt they pay any licenses for it at all even before it was put into usb 4.
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Jun 22, 2020 22:28
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Binary Badger posted:Presumably it's a relatively simple jump to hurdle as there are existing ARM workstations that use Radeon GPUs.. Oh man...I had no idea about this. I’m all “opening track to a RTJ album” about this now. Let’s goooo!
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Jun 22, 2020 22:33
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So just got a MacBook air for school to replace my ancient Asus one. Should I cancel that order and wait for the new ARM stuff or just stick with what I got for now?
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Jun 22, 2020 22:35
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no lol
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Jun 22, 2020 22:36
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Stick with what you have. Let other people be guinea pigs. You can always flip it.
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Jun 22, 2020 22:36
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Thanks what I thought but wanted a second opinion.
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Jun 22, 2020 22:36
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Zil posted:So just got a MacBook air for school to replace my ancient Asus one. Should I cancel that order and wait for the new ARM stuff or just stick with what I got for now? Stick with what you have, Jesus Christ. Never never never never never never never never never never never never never never never never buy a first-gen Apple product, especially when they’re trying something this new.
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Jun 22, 2020 22:37
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Ok Comboomer posted:That’s exactly what I expect them to do. Yes. The only thing that would need to be Apple SoC/ARM specific would be the device driver. And even that would probably be a trivial recompile since the underlying OS kernel layer API isn't changing - just the architecture.
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Jun 22, 2020 22:42
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If you've ever wished your iPad was a computer you'll probably enjoy the first gen ARM MacBooks. Otherwise stay away until further notice.
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Jun 22, 2020 22:43
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Ok Comboomer posted:Stick with what you have, Jesus Christ. Seconding this, if you have work you need to get done, go with tried and true, don't get yourself involved in one of Apple's beta development platforms. Most major vendors are still barely catching up with making their products Catalina compatible, Big Sur will almost undoubtedly be another clusterfuck until it matures around 10.16.5 or 6.
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Jun 22, 2020 22:43
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Ok Comboomer posted:Never never never never never never never never never never never never never never never never buy a first-gen Apple product, especially when they’re trying something this new. It's time to update the thread title to something along these lines.
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Jun 22, 2020 22:44
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they've been prepping this for a while and hardly anyone will notice the change to apple chips. be brave and join the ArmBook Army( no bootcamp)
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Jun 22, 2020 22:49
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gently caress I use boot camp, goddammit. I'm sure they don't give a poo poo about boot camp users, though. Glad I got this 16" MBP to tide me over for several years.
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Jun 22, 2020 22:51
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Binary Badger posted:Seconding this, if you have work you need to get done, go with tried and true, don't get yourself involved in one of Apple's beta development platforms. macos 10 is dead 
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Jun 22, 2020 22:51
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Last Chance posted:they've been prepping this for a while and hardly anyone will notice the change to apple chips. 
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Jun 22, 2020 22:52
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Weedle posted:macos 10 is dead I heard it's 11.0 if you're on ARM, 10.16.x on Intel..
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Jun 22, 2020 22:57
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Binary Badger posted:I heard it's 11.0 if you're on ARM, 10.16.x on Intel.. It’s OSX 11 you dummies. And you pronounce it “Oh-Es-Ex”. (man alive, never thought I’d see a MacOS 11)
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Jun 22, 2020 22:59
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Luceo posted:gently caress Same. I love this 16" and think it's going to last me quite some time.
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Jun 22, 2020 23:03
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not bad for catalina. besides, apple's extensive experience with ARM puts them in a very good spot. the software isn't going to be any glitchier solely because of a the switch to ARM. the rosetta 2 stuff looks like it's shaping up fine. plus the new armbooks may come with improved battery life/power management, better sleep/wake, and other nice poo poo. join today (by the end of 2020)!
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Jun 22, 2020 23:03
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Last Chance posted:plus the new armbooks may come with improved battery life/power management, better sleep/wake, and other nice poo poo. join today (by the end of 2020)! I'd hope so, since it'll just be needing to run Safari and iOS-based MS Office apps at first. 
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Jun 22, 2020 23:07
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Killing support for the 2012 Mac Mini. You cowards!
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Jun 22, 2020 23:07
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Thus ends my macbook's (pro late 2012) update support. The thing is it's still a really good laptop which means I'm probably not going to run out and get another one even though this one is now officially old.
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Jun 22, 2020 23:08
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Ok Comboomer posted:It’s OSX 11 you dummies. And you pronounce it “Oh-Es-Ex”. System 10, buddy.
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Jun 22, 2020 23:09
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It’s likely that Apple starts switching socketed Intel CPUs for mounted ARM ones. That only really matters to the subset of Mac Pro owners and aspiring Mac Pro owners who plan to roll their own CPUs and I guess to people a decade from now looking to keep their machines going, but I imagine it’s worth a thought. Can’t see apple making a socketed A-series, but I guess stranger things have happened
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Jun 22, 2020 23:09
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EL BROMANCE posted:Killing support for the 2012 Mac Mini. You cowards! I'm going to hold on to/run my 2012 quad Mini until the end!
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Jun 22, 2020 23:09
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EL BROMANCE posted:Killing support for the 2012 Mac Mini. You cowards! BUY A 2018. I have the i5 and it's seriously a great machine. I actually bought it secondhand from a goon for a ridiculously good price and have been using it for about a year now as a headless server.
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Jun 22, 2020 23:11
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EL BROMANCE posted:Killing support for the 2012 Mac Mini. You cowards! Aw, just wait for dosdude1 to issue a patch, your 2012 could probably run Big Sur without too much trouble.
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Jun 22, 2020 23:25
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Why would you even want to update a 2012 Mac Mini to Catalina? Let alone Big Sur.
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Jun 22, 2020 23:29
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Brain Issues posted:Why would you even want to update a 2012 Mac Mini to Catalina? Let alone Big Sur. I haven't updated my 2012 Mini to Catalina, specifically because Catalina is such a shitshow.
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Jun 22, 2020 23:45
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Ok Comboomer posted:
You realize it sat on the drawing board for 3+ years while Intel had their thumbs up their asses and Apple finally went, welp we have to release *something,* right?
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Jun 22, 2020 23:49
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Ok Comboomer posted:(I actually have no clue how GPUs work wrt x86 vs getting them to work with another architecture. Like, do the GPUs themselves need to be redesigned or could it just be on the CPU/mobo side? Like, could Apple make a CPU/board that work ootb with existing Radeons? A drop-in replacement board for owners of existing Mac Pros?) Doing a slightly deeper dive on this since I think it's worth thinking about... Hardware: they just have to support PCIe expansion slots. That's it. There is nothing x86-specific about GPU internals. Software part 1: they need to support UEFI to have any chance of running a boot screen through a generic PC GPU. This is possible, UEFI firmware isn't actually required to be x86 machine code (it can be EFI bytecode). Even when it's not, you can run it through a simple interpreter style x86 emulator, early boot isn't super performance critical. Software part 2: obviously, the real post-boot driver needs to get ported to ARM. I expect that "software part 2" is the most important consideration. Who will want to invest in writing Metal drivers for AMD or nVidia GPUs if the entire Apple ARM Mac product line has a perfectly good Apple GPU built in? That is a thing which could happen.
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Jun 22, 2020 23:55
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Binary Badger posted:Late 2013 iMacs had nothing but nVidia GPUs across the board; other than that, there's nothing that would prevent Big Sur running on them other than that Apple will likely not bundle any nVidia drivers for Big Sur like they did for Catalina. Nah, they'll still be bundling nVidia drivers. They are supporting the computer I'm typing this on, a late 2013" rMBP, which is a dual GPU machine with the nVidia 750M as its dGPU.
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Jun 22, 2020 23:56
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Ok Comboomer posted:Is it normal for companies to charge for access to a temporary Devkit like that? I imagine it’s more a show of good faith/to weed out potential leakers and flippers than a serious attempt at getting money out of developers right? From the presentation it sounded like you get a few support tickets (meaning: an Apple support engineer will directly assist you with your ARM porting problem), access to training workshops, and so forth. That and just having access to real hardware (even if it's a rental) is the value for developers. It's been a long time since I looked, but iirc the price for that kind of support ticket used to be well over $100 per ticket, so it doesn't take a lot of these paid support resources for it to become a $500 bundle. The hardware probably has to go back to Apple because (a) they wouldn't want to permanently support Macs built around an adaptation of an old iPad SoC done prior to final decisions about Mac SoC design standards and (b) they likely haven't done any regulatory compliance work on it. (It's quite likely that it costs Apple more than $500 per unit to make those, btw. Low quantity hardware builds are shockingly expensive. They're just writing that expense off. Speaking of, 20-odd years ago when I knew someone on the inside, they told me it was standard practice for Apple to shred most hardware built for internal test, for tax reasons. Something along the lines of needing to unambiguously prove they weren't going to sell written-off hardware for revenue. I wouldn't be surprised if that is the ultimate fate of these A12Z dev platforms.)
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Jun 23, 2020 00:09
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SourKraut posted:I haven't updated my 2012 Mini to Catalina, specifically because Catalina is such a shitshow. You made the right decision.
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Jun 23, 2020 00:38
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Luceo posted:gently caress Children, there was once a glorious time of peace. A peace of 15 or so years, between the fall from grace of IBM, to the fall of Intel, that macs could play games.
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Jun 23, 2020 00:51
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Brain Issues posted:BUY A 2018. I have the i5 and it's seriously a great machine. I actually bought it secondhand from a goon for a ridiculously good price and have been using it for about a year now as a headless server. Yeah at some point, I only just upgraded my ‘11 Air to a new one. I get so much out of the ‘12 I’m not sure I’d actually see much difference form the new one. I don’t need much raw power and I rarely get slowdowns.
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Jun 23, 2020 01:11
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Binary Badger posted:One thing I liked about the keynote is that Apple pretty much confirms Macs will get world class GPU performance as the GPU from iOS devices will be brought over to the Mac side, or even possibly a more hefty version thanks to the higher thermal and power envelopes on laptops / desktops as opposed to tablets and phones. The Rosetta 2 demo where Shadow of the Tomb Raider ran better in emulation than it does on any new Mac without a dGPU is a very exciting preview of things to come. And Apple paying Hollywood software firms to port their CUDA apps to Metal wasn't just for the Mac Pro.
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Jun 23, 2020 01:13
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I have an i7 mac mini being delivered in the next six days. There's a chance, albeit slim, that this could be a future treasure.
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Jun 23, 2020 01:15
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Brain Issues posted:You made the right decision. Yeah, my 2012 Mini and 2010
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Jun 23, 2020 01:18
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