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Yeah stick can be messy for sure if you care about the surface look after welding. Definitely one of those where you watch an expert and realize there is real art to what appears to be practical skill The fellas I learned it from mostly talked about using it on small stuff where you couldn't fit a grinder to clean up, so more "artsy" pieces at our shop. I mostly use it where I expect most people would use TIG, which I haven't spent the time to pick up well, but to do fine welds that I don't want or need to go back over later. I've never been happy with anything under 1/2" stock on mig without grinding it away. I need to find a bodywork guy again someday and learn the wu tang oxy secrets.
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Jun 10, 2020 06:14
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One of the things that about 5 years ago really put me off oxy-acetylene was that the flash back arrestors only last 18 months, or at least by then you should replace them. And they where like 100 bucks a set, sometimes 200! I really hated the idea of buying that expensive a consumable. Apparently this is only if you run torch mounted flash arrestors I recently figured out. They are a pretty simple design and very heat sensitive, and because they are close to the torch they degrade over time, restricting gas flow. In fact a flashback arrestor can lead to flashback because of the increased resistance to gas flow! With a regulator mounted system you have a bigger arrestor and it can even be resettable and so has an indefinite lifespan, because it's bigger it doesn't restrict gas flow nearly as much and so reduces the chances of flash back. I guess this is why in the scandinavian countries the norm is regulator mounted arrestors and check valves on the torch body. And that's how I will set it up as well.
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Jun 10, 2020 17:45
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shovelbum posted:Edit the no filler gas stuff is SUPREMELY satisfying when it flows together yep. there’s this zippy oxyfuel technique for welding sheet metal called “flange welding” where you bend the last ~1/8” of the sheet edge into a 90-degree flange, then butt the flange flats against each other and then play the torch along the joint, melting the flanges into each other in lieu of filler wire. it’s so easy and satisfying to weld up, it’s like zipping a zipper- and it eliminates the skill barrier to weird challenging stuff the hobbyist would normally never attempt with conventional welding, like butt-welding very thin sheet parts together
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Jun 10, 2020 19:04
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Ambrose Burnside posted:yep. there’s this zippy oxyfuel technique for welding sheet metal called “flange welding” where you bend the last ~1/8” of the sheet edge into a 90-degree flange, then butt the flange flats against each other and then play the torch along the joint, melting the flanges into each other in lieu of filler wire. it’s so easy and satisfying to weld up, it’s like zipping a zipper- and it eliminates the skill barrier to weird challenging stuff the hobbyist would normally never attempt with conventional welding, like butt-welding very thin sheet parts together Well that's a disgustingly simple idea. Wish I had known it earlier. I'm going to try to make a drawknife, a curved knife, and some little carving knives for a buddy. I have access to 1075, 1084, O1 (I don't want to use this, it's 3/4 round and will take me forever to forge down), 5160 leaf spring (1960s car) and some old metal files and a rasp. What would you guys suggest I go for? I've never made wood-toucher tools before.
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Jun 11, 2020 04:32
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I can't speak to specifics about making woodworking knives but I've been getting into chip-carving on the side lately so I can tell you what I know will be important to focus on after being a blacksmith using wood knives. A straight knife is much easier to make and bevel perfectly than a curved one, so depending on your skill level start there. If you're plenty experienced with knives I don't think there's anything too weird in carving stuff that would trip you up, chisels and other carving tools have a specific way to be sharpened but I think the gross forging part isn't too complicated. V or U chisel is probably the most complicated shapes you'd have to deal with as you want it to be perfectly even otherwise you're gouging weird shapes into the wood. My big takeaway from looking at (and using) the different carving knives I've gotten is that a) perfect sharpness is critical and b) a lot of the fine carving knives I've been using are very thin and you tend to want a much thinner taper than you do on a normal knife as you are making very thin precise cuts to the point you are separating the wood fibers and sliding between them, some of mine are like 8 degrees as opposed to the normal 15 to 20 on your pocket or kitchen knife. Some of this is specific to chip knives but it carries to other carving equipment. I think most of your work is going to be sharpening and shaping all the edges to their different required shapes, lot of fiddlework. Woodcarving definitely lives and dies by the quality of your tools, any time I have trouble learning a technique it is usually because my knifes not sharp enough. As long as you are confident in putting a good edge on it just figure out what kind of woodworking your friend most commonly does and Google the basic knives or chisels used for that task. If he carves I think one or two carving knives and then if you feel froggy a couple differently sized or shaped chisels won't go wrong. I know I went a little long about bevels and getting the edge right because it's so important and it's something you wouldn't really realize if you don't carve yourself. I struggled the first week or so of carving because I didn't realize I had to sharpen my tools differently than I was used to. Even after I got them shaving sharp they still weren't behaving like they were supposed to, because the angle wasn't right. threelemmings fucked around with this message at 05:36 on Jun 11, 2020 |
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Jun 11, 2020 05:18
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Slung Blade posted:I'm going to try to make a drawknife, a curved knife, and some little carving knives for a buddy. Drawknives are often used for debarking and other rough outdoor work. I'd want an alloy that is tough and can take a beating over one that is more brittle but maybe holds the edge slightly longer. 5160 is ideal. For the smaller knives, any of those alloys are fine too but I might favor the 1075 or 1084 for easy forgability. They're very close in carbon content but in theory the 1085 would be slightly harder/hold edge longer while the 1075 would be slightly tougher/hold up to more abuse. None of those are bad steels for any of those purposes though. They are all oil quenching, do not water quench.
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Jun 11, 2020 07:14
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Flange welding sounds pretty cool, wonder if it'd work as well with TIG. I just bought myself a 70A plasma cutter (Stahlwerk, it's from Germany but chinese, but people seem happy with theirs) so I am putting the oxy-fuel cutting business on the back burner again. Gonna get it up and running, but spreading out my purchases over time... Definitely think oxy propane cutting is worth a try since I have propane already.
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Jun 11, 2020 08:25
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Leperflesh posted:Drawknives are often used for debarking and other rough outdoor work. I'd want an alloy that is tough and can take a beating over one that is more brittle but maybe holds the edge slightly longer. 5160 is ideal. For the smaller knives, any of those alloys are fine too but I might favor the 1075 or 1084 for easy forgability. They're very close in carbon content but in theory the 1085 would be slightly harder/hold edge longer while the 1075 would be slightly tougher/hold up to more abuse. None of those are bad steels for any of those purposes though. They are all oil quenching, do not water quench. I don't think I'll have to forge any of them except the hooked one (for spoons/depressions) and the drawknife handles. I've got a little 2" wide bar of the carbons that I think I can just saw off the end and grind/sand it down into the blade for the carvers. Heat treat, sure, will have to do that and that shouldn't be a big problem. I've got my oil bucket. Thanks for the advice folks, pretty much in line with what I was thinking.
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Jun 11, 2020 15:52
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I'm a lurker here but a frequent wood-toucher, so from that perspective: If you haven't used the tools you're looking to make, it might be tough to nail the ergonomics. Using product images as references will help, but I'd suggest handling some of them if you can (without exposing yourself to unnecessary risk from the plague, obviously), maybe at a Woodcraft store or something. Overall weight, sizing/spacing of handles, angles of blades -- all of that could be difficult to figure out without hands-on experience. (it's also highly subjective but I doubt your friend would hold it against you if you don't nail exactly their preferred handle-to-handle distance on the drawknife or something like it) And if you have used them, ignore all of the above!
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Jun 11, 2020 16:16
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Note there is a knifemaking thread, though it isn't very active. https://forums.somethingawful.com/showthread.php?threadid=3570191&userid=0&perpage=40&pagenumber=11 But if you have questions about the heat treat or other aspects of getting the blade right, let me know. I can probably give some advice or point you the right direction.
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Jun 11, 2020 18:31
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Nah, I'm familiar with the heat treating process, not worried about that. Thanks though. I've watched a lot of videos of carvers doing their thing, I know that's a pale substitute for actually doing it yourself but I've done some super basic woodworking back in jr high three decades ago, and I whittled a little when I was a kid or whenever I'm out in the woods. I have enough material to make them all several times over if I really gently caress it up bad. Also, yeah, best part is this friend is by no means a pro-carver either, so this will be a learning set for him as well.
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Jun 11, 2020 19:42
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Except for carving/whittling knives, most woodworking gouges/carving tools/chisels have a flat, straight bevel instead of a rounded bevel like on knife. The bevel is like two straight lines meeting at an angle, not two curved lines intersecting. This makes them easier to sharpen and helps them cut wood grain more consistently without tearout.
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Jun 11, 2020 20:03
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Kaiser Schnitzel posted:tearout *carving ptsd increases* It actually made me appreciate how often you can go back and adjust things in blacksmithing, there's very few terminal operations you can't undo while forging. A missed hammerblow can be frustrating to clean up but it's nothing compared to the despair of slipping with a knife on your last cut and blowing straight through the walls of your carving because you didn't watch the grain or put in a stop cut. 
threelemmings fucked around with this message at 20:22 on Jun 11, 2020 |
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Jun 11, 2020 20:12
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His Divine Shadow posted:Flange welding sounds pretty cool, wonder if it'd work as well with TIG. Let me know what you think of the stahlwerk, I'm eyeing one of their AC/DC TIG welders and would be interested to hear your experience.
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Jun 11, 2020 20:27
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I'm pretty sure it's generic chinese pseudojunk, as evidence by that a 70A unit of theirs will do what a quality 45A unit will do (at 3x the price of course) but I hope it will work well enough for me and that the warranty won't be a bunch of BS. Only buying it because I couldn't find a 2nd hand quality unit at my price level and I needed something soonish and could not wait months for a good deal to pop up as I usually do. I would not in good conscience recommend stahlwerk or any chinese unit tbh, it's only of neccessity I am buying it. Speaking of other chinese products, I also bought a replacement 3 jaw chuck from China. I am less ambivalent about these as no electronics or magic smoke, it seems good enough for my purposes but holy hell don't just use these, totally disassemble them. They are full of grit and grease. Some really tough grease too, I really should have taken out the hot plate and boiled them in lye. instead I scrubbed in water and soap and then various solvents and then the ultrasonic cleaner in hot water and soap. But after it got clean, lubed and reassembled it feels Ok. I need now to make a back plate for it. His Divine Shadow fucked around with this message at 04:35 on Jun 12, 2020 |
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Jun 12, 2020 04:27
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This is the story of Dartman. Dartman was a local inventor and eccentric who, for 30 years, attempted to sell his stealth dart gun to the CIA. My grandfather, father, and myself, had the interesting pleasure of machining parts for him.  Sometime in the early 70's he made a completely silent and amazingly accurate dart gun. My grandfather would machine the parts for the gun not particularly caring what Dartman needed it for. As time went on Dartman became a fixture in the shop so he was charged from the moment he walked in the door till he left. Grandpa did this to get Dartman out, except Dartman just paid and we happily made parts for him. Later in the 70's he came up with a repeating design.  In the mid 80's my Grandfather sold his machine shop to my father. He inherited Dartman with it. About this time the eccentric part came out. He believed in werewolves and would refuse to leave the house during a full moon. If he was somewhere and realized it was a full moon he would not leave that location until daylight. He also would only drive in the center of a vehicle as he felt the sides of the car were unsafe. It was not unusual to see him driving down the road while sitting on the center console. Dartman was about 5' 1" tall so this was extra funny. About this time he started telling my family about how the CIA was interested in his dart gun for assassination purposes. As long as Dartman paid his bill (he did) we continued to machine parts for him. Throughout the 90's and 00's he continued to come to the shop as his design got more sophisticated.  He had promotional material made up that was him with a fully functioning repeating assassination weapon. Except he was wearing a popped collar leather jacket, coke bottle glasses, and hair like a James Dean movie. I'm still trying to find one of those posters because it is loving hilarious. I started dealing with him in the late 00's. He would bring in wooden darts and we would centerless grind them to within about 50 millionths flatness and dimension. He would sit next to the machine and live fit them to his dartgun. He was always pleasant if a bit odd. The thing he was most excited about was all the new found research into Chinese repeating crossbows. Dartman was getting up in age at this point and started coming around less. I asked one of my Uncles about Dartman as I was worried about Dartman. He looked kind of shabby, always had side protectors on his glasses (even after he retired), and drove the same vehicle. At this point I learned that somehow Dartman made a fortune during the dot com boom and was actually quite wealthy. I was never able to verify that part of the story but I'm not really surprised if it was true.  The last time I saw Dartman he was walking down the street and hugging street poles. He passed away shortly after. He was a really unique individual and looking back we realize was somewhere on the spectrum. At times I felt he was a pain but I regret not spending more time chatting with him as he was truly unique. The icing on the cake was when people cleaning out his house found an old yellow purchase order from the CIA for a "prototype". Edit : Here's a picture from a book he wrote in 1975. 
Yooper fucked around with this message at 18:00 on Jun 12, 2020 |
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Jun 12, 2020 17:55
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I'm seeing a lot of very clear blueprints and designs but no completed models. The thread demands
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Jun 13, 2020 14:09
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threelemmings posted:I'm seeing a lot of very clear blueprints and designs but no completed models. The thread demands I'll see if I can track down some of his relatives. I'm not sure what happened to his estate.
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Jun 13, 2020 14:41
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Yeah I'm very much on the smithing side of the thread, my only experience close to machining is using our pirahna irownworker. But I am fascinated by clockwork or the intricate assembly stuff you see machinists sometimes work on, and a self loading crossbow dart gun thingy would probably fit. And while I don't understand all of you guys' lathe posts everyone loves a good machine repair. Maybe one day I'll give in and make a clock. In fact lets see some home assembled stuff, I saw a small IC engine in reddit the other day that was cool as poo poo. Machine people feel free to post dartguns and/or clocks and/or clockguns. threelemmings fucked around with this message at 15:23 on Jun 13, 2020 |
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Jun 13, 2020 15:21
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Milling some aluminum, can take a pretty heavy cut 
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Jun 22, 2020 06:24
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Hey folks, what's a good resource for learning the ropes of manual milling machines? I have some experience with manual work on machines with CNC cont-Yooper posted:This is the story of Dartman. 
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Jun 22, 2020 06:33
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Plasma cutter arrived today    First time using a plasma cutter so I guess there's a training factor to this as well, but I felt I had to go up to 50A at 8mm to be able to get a nice cut and move at a speed that I thought felt natural. I guess my intuition on this might be wrong and one should learn to go slower.  Earlier experiments  ~25mm @ 70A 
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Jun 22, 2020 18:21
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HolHorsejob posted:Hey folks, what's a good resource for learning the ropes of manual milling machines? I have some experience with manual work on machines with CNC cont- The most important thing is getting used to approaching and measuring from the same direction to account for backlash. There's a couple textbooks I'll dig up in my post history in a second
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Jun 22, 2020 18:32
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shame on an IGA posted:Machining Fundamentals is TERRIBLE.
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Jun 22, 2020 18:37
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Are the colour codings on buffing bar compounds universal? Specifically are all the green ones chromium oxide?
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Jun 22, 2020 22:26
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DreadLlama posted:Are the colour codings on buffing bar compounds universal? Specifically are all the green ones chromium oxide? Usually*. Chromium oxide for example is actually green, https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Chromium(III)_oxide, however things get funky between manufacturers. *It used to be pretty regular but some companies now offer blends and specialty additives to enhance cutting, increase cooling, etc, so ymmv.
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Jun 23, 2020 00:27
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Copper(II) oxide is also green. Here's an amazon listing: https://www.amazon.ca/Woodstock-D2902-Buffing-Compound-1-Pound/dp/B0000DD364quote:Green; Fine; For softer metals If I put it another way; am I ok to assume that any green one I see is intended for stainless?
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Jun 23, 2020 14:53
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DreadLlama posted:Copper(II) oxide is also green. Here's an amazon listing: https://www.amazon.ca/Woodstock-D2902-Buffing-Compound-1-Pound/dp/B0000DD364 Yes, greens seems to be universal for stainless. Edit : Copper oxide isn't a polish that I'm aware of. It's Mohs hardness is 3.5-4 compared to Chromium oxide of 8.0. Yooper fucked around with this message at 15:45 on Jun 23, 2020 |
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Jun 23, 2020 15:21
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Jaded Burnout posted:Alright so I had a bit of time available and 5 rods to get it done with. In a bit of a repeat of this situation, I'm back for more steel bending advice. This time I'm looking at making some simple bench holdfasts. They usually look something like this: https://www.amazon.co.uk/REACH-BENCH-HOLD-DOWN-CLAMP-Woodworking/dp/B000KUVQEY but they're not readily available in the UK anymore (that one's an import). I don't have any solid cylindrical metal in stock, nor do I have any real tools for working with them, but what I do have is some steel electrical conduit, something along the lines of this: https://www.screwfix.com/p/deta-class-4-conduit-tube-galvanised-20mm-x-3m/7734j I don't know whether the stuff I have is galvanised or not as it was brought in by the electrician, but the rust prevention isn't so important this time round since it'll only be used indoors (though I remember the warnings about the gases released if heating this stuff). Are there any obvious pitfalls if I cut off a length of this stuff, heat it with a propane torch, and start shaping it on a wooden bench? Other than mild scorch/fire risk to the bench. To my understanding the goal will be to put a fairly large radius in and then hammer one end flat. Not dissimilar to this: 
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Jun 23, 2020 17:13
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You can heat it in a well ventilated area, or cut it to the lengths you need and soak it in vinegar for a half hour or so then wipe the zinc coating off. Im not sure how well that pipe will work as a hold down, especially long term.
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Jun 23, 2020 17:38
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Jaded Burnout posted:To my understanding the goal will be to put a fairly large radius in and then hammer one end flat. Not dissimilar to this: The hold downs are made of (or should be made out of) something like spring steel or steel able to be forged that allows for some spring to it. Even if you bend the conduit to the shape, I'm not sure it'll have any holding capacity. It likely lacks the carbon content to be able to heat treat it to get that spring or strength. Comedy (read cheap) option would be to procure some M20 socket head cap screws, 150-200mm long or so. You'll get them fairly cheaply. If you can get it hot enough to shape it, then quench in oil, then a heat treat, you will probably come out pretty good. Blacksmithing nerds can comment on quench and heat treat temp. I've found socket head cap screws to usually be made out of better material than a garden variety crap bolt.
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Jun 23, 2020 17:39
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Regret. OK thanks  I'll probably try some other approach then.
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Jun 23, 2020 17:43
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General question on lathes: Heart and soul of any lathe are obviously bed and headstock but what degree of compatibility do the ways from different models/makes have with each other? Eg, suppose I see an attractive deal on say a South Bend bed. Is it reasonably plausible that I would be able to fit some South Bend headstock to a South Bend bed without matching the models exactly, or are the ways likely to be different enough between years, bed lengths, etc that it would be impractical? Is it plausible that could I mix manufacturers? I know that many lathes mount various things to the ways by means of shims in order to provide leveling, so I'm sort of hoping that because a shim is going between the bed and everything else anyway, there is some fungibility in terms of compatible parts. Same question for toolholders/cross slides too. After I have an actual lathe, to what degree do I have to actually chase down OEM parts if I want a live vs dead center? Is it possible to accessorize a lathe with aftermarket equipment from other makes/modes? If it's relevant, I've primarily been looking at small/hobby sized lathes because I rent an apartment and don't have much room for a properly large setup. DearSirXNORMadam fucked around with this message at 21:04 on Jun 23, 2020 |
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Jun 23, 2020 21:00
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Mirconium posted:General question on lathes: Compatability will probably be good between the same model but different year. Your odds of fitting a Colchester slide to a Monarch lathe for example is probably zero. The vee slide spacing will make swapping certain components virtually impossible. If it's a name brand lathe you can probably still buy all of the parts to totally rebuild the headstock. I can still buy parts for my old Hardinge stuff, even the Logan turret lathe is still supported by some weirdo somewhere. I'm poo poo out of luck on my old Morey though. Live vs dead center is easy, just find one that fits your taper. No need for OEM. Things like tool holders and chucks can be found aftermarket and can be higher quality than OE. Just make sure you don't get some weirdo impossible to find taper or mounting arrangement on some crazy old lathe from Yugoslavia.
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Jun 24, 2020 01:24
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As a pet project I decided to learn how to improve mild steel beyond just letting it be its lovely self. I held it in a clay jacket filled with aquarium carbon at bright orange hot for 2 hours. I used a 20 dollar grill with no refractory material, nor a proper air source. I used a car tire inflator to stoke it back to temp once it dropped back to dull orange. If I can get my partner to help, I'll take some a/b comparison videos in the next couple days of the sparks off a bench grinder. I believe I was successful though, I made it *ring* with a hammer, and a file barely bites in comparison. I wish I had more scientific ways of checking carbon content but  I mostly just use proper carbon steel to stock remove for knives so this has been a fun activity. I like fire. I may make a real charcoal forge once I can find a free something to use as an anvil. 
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Jun 24, 2020 01:58
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Back when I did a little blacksmithing I built a super simple and cheap washtub forge powered by a hairdryer with a rheostat. It worked great and got plenty hot with hardwood/lump charcoal. I think I remember something about briquets not getting as hot as lump charcoal? https://allensonarmory.blogspot.com/2014/04/charcoal-washtub-forge.html Railroad iron doesn't make a great anvil, but it does make an anvil. It's  but if there are RR tracks out in the woods near you, there is always hit laying around-scraps of track or the plates that go on the ties etc.
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Jun 24, 2020 02:14
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Yeah, it didn't stay hot enough for what I was doing at all without the air compressor. But it was also done on a whim right after I took the meat off, all I did was add a couple extra handfuls of untreated briquettes right on top then bury the bar. I'll be planning and doing things correctly next time. Having to keep my hand so close to the fire the whole time to add air wasn't pleasant. Lidl charcoal briquettes will 100% get you there on small pieces though. I spent maybe a dollar? On all I used. E: that's a really nice setup for cheap, thanks for the link!
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Jun 24, 2020 02:25
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I realized I didn't have a good chisel to shape handles for things anymore So that bit of hardened bar became a chisel. I'm now using it to make the handle for the chisel itself. It's doing a great job at tearing through red oak. It feels like a cheat code to just make a tool you need.
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Jun 24, 2020 06:39
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Anyone have any experience with Taig microlathes? They seem like a pretty attractive proposition in terms of being able to build them up piecemeal, and the prices aren't much of a premium over used mid-century stuff on ebay that has a chance of coming with lead based paint on it.
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Jun 24, 2020 20:47
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Yooper posted:The hold downs are made of (or should be made out of) something like spring steel or steel able to be forged that allows for some spring to it. Even if you bend the conduit to the shape, I'm not sure it'll have any holding capacity. It likely lacks the carbon content to be able to heat treat it to get that spring or strength. Jaded Burnout posted:Regret. OK thanks IMO carbon steel is totally unnecessary for bench dogs/holdfasts; it's -the preferred material- but mild steel absolutely still has enough springiness to serve in this role. You're not making a leaf or coil spring where the metal will be subject to enormous deflection and must 100% spring back with no deformation, this sort of spring has much more forgiving use requirements. If it gets a little bent out of shape you just pop it in the vise and knock it back to true. That said, my feeling is that conduit is also not an acceptable substitute unless you're willing to do a lot of work to bend tubing properly without kinks. Even if you did that work using bending dies, filling the tube with incompressible material like sand, pitch or a eutectic low-melt alloy to prevent collapsing during the bend, etc you'll end up with a very weak holdfast with a much lower plastic deformation point- it will appear more springy than a solid bar holdfast but will also permanently deform much easier. And it will always be prone to collapsing at the weakest bend point in use, once the filler is gone. Making bench dogs is a good first "real" project because they're very simple tools and the critical design parameters are easy to grasp, I wouldn't give up on it so fast. I wouldn't attempt it with conduit or hollow stock, though, I would hold out for some proper round stock. do some research on this because I'm speculating, but you might even be able to make dogs from aluminium round bar, albeit light-duty holdfasts for their size. but the forming will be much easier without forge access because you can work it cold and anneal it periodically to soften, vs the much more technically-challenging "working steel while red-hot". lmk if you wanna try alminium I've done a lot of aluminium forging (both hot and cold) and have some tips on how to do it properly. Ambrose Burnside fucked around with this message at 22:14 on Jun 24, 2020 |
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Jun 24, 2020 22:05
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