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snoremac posted:I got up to the war between the three houses at the field and don't get why the Alliance and Kingdom (me) are fighting each other. The talk beforehand seems to indicate Claude is trying to capitalise on your position between him and Edlegard, but when he arrives he says "It looks like the Kingdom don't want to stick with us." Is it a simple miscommunication? It's a bit daft if so. You pretty much got it. I think the intention is that Edelgard is causing enough confusion--both through the miscommunication and through general battlefield chaos--that the Alliance and Kingdom waste their time fighting each other instead of going after the Imperial forces. But it's done really clumsily in the story, which is kind of a shame because that battle is framed as such a climactic moment in both the Azure Moon and Verdant Wind routes. Ultimately I think that chapter exists because they wanted to force you to fight and potentially kill Blue Lions/Golden Deer characters on those routes even though for the majority of part 2, those two sides don't really fight each other. So they contrived a big three-way brawl so that you might end up needing to kill students who aren't Black Eagles students on the Azure Moon/Verdant Wind routes, and it's sort of an obviously contrived situation which I think robs it of the drama it's supposed to have. Harrow fucked around with this message at 04:52 on Jun 23, 2020 |
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Jun 23, 2020 04:50
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Hellioning posted:I mean if we're talking three houses balance we need to discuss wyvern riders/lords before literally anything else because that is a disaster of a class. Closely followed by enemy Pegasus/Falcon Knights. Because why do they exist in the form they do.
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Jun 23, 2020 05:02
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They definitely could've handled that better. It seems easy enough to do with AM since most of the Alliance characters either come from houses that are easy to imagine siding with the Empire, or are commoner mercenaries who could logically be taking an imperial contract or even just have resorted to banditry. But Lorenz is the only one you fight outside of Gronder. It's a lot harder finding a reason on VW though. Aside from Ashe, Annette is really the only one who has ties to the Imperial side. The rest either all come from the still anti-imperial parts of the Kingdom and are practically your allies, or are Dedue, who is fanatically devoted to Dmitri and thus has no real reason to fight you outside of rewriting the plot. Gronder seems really the only way to get you to kill the Lions as the Alliance without changing the story.
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Jun 23, 2020 05:09
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galagazombie posted:They definitely could've handled that better. It seems easy enough to do with AM since most of the Alliance characters either come from houses that are easy to imagine siding with the Empire, or are commoner mercenaries who could logically be taking an imperial contract or even just have resorted to banditry. But Lorenz is the only one you fight outside of Gronder. It's a lot harder finding a reason on VW though. Aside from Ashe, Annette is really the only one who has ties to the Imperial side. The rest either all come from the still anti-imperial parts of the Kingdom and are practically your allies, or are Dedue, who is fanatically devoted to Dmitri and thus has no real reason to fight you outside of rewriting the plot. Gronder seems really the only way to get you to kill the Lions as the Alliance without changing the story. Maybe I am horribly misreading what you wrote, but on VW it makes perfect sense for the Kingdom to attack you because Dimitri is a lunatic who doesn't want anyone getting in his way of Edelgard and everyone is too spineless to stop him.
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Jun 23, 2020 05:14
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Harrow posted:You pretty much got it. I think the intention is that Edelgard is causing enough confusion--both through the miscommunication and through general battlefield chaos--that the Alliance and Kingdom waste their time fighting each other instead of going after the Imperial forces. But it's done really clumsily in the story, which is kind of a shame because that battle is framed as such a climactic moment in both the Azure Moon and Verdant Wind routes. It is a neat fight though. I failed a couple of times by charging in but then I made some skirmishes, withdrew behind the river and watched the two sides brawl until Claude was left to
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Jun 23, 2020 05:19
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McTimmy posted:Maybe I am horribly misreading what you wrote, but on VW it makes perfect sense for the Kingdom to attack you because Dimitri is a lunatic who doesn't want anyone getting in his way of Edelgard and everyone is too spineless to stop him. Yeah, this honestly. You could very easily have had Dimitri be the aggressor while he's in full rage mode. I mean it gets him killed horribly on VW/SS anyways, just have a chapter or two where he's indiscriminately attacking Alliance assets and you have to fight some of the Lions. Or even just have a chapter after Grondor where some of the surviving Lions attack Claude's party because they feel that the Alliance betrayed them at Grondor and got Dimitri killed.
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Jun 23, 2020 05:19
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McTimmy posted:Maybe I am horribly misreading what you wrote, but on VW it makes perfect sense for the Kingdom to attack you because Dimitri is a lunatic who doesn't want anyone getting in his way of Edelgard and everyone is too spineless to stop him.
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Jun 23, 2020 05:26
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McTimmy posted:Maybe I am horribly misreading what you wrote, but on VW it makes perfect sense for the Kingdom to attack you because Dimitri is a lunatic who doesn't want anyone getting in his way of Edelgard and everyone is too spineless to stop him. Part of what I meant is as it stands He attacks you despite you not really getting in his way at all. but also when I said "re-write" I mean in the sense for giving a reason to fight Lions students in places other than Gronder since thats what the initial post was about. I mean something like what Zore said about having some Lion students come at you later instead of them all being packed together in one chapter.
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Jun 23, 2020 05:31
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On AM Dimitri sends a messenger to the Alliance, who gets killed. Presumably it's Empire spies who kill him before he arrives, but Dimitri assumes it means Claude is not willing to talk. It's a small justification, but better than nothing.
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Jun 23, 2020 07:59
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Nah, both Dimitri and Edelgard go absolutely bananas without Byleth guiding them and I'd imagine no messenger was sent in VW
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Jun 23, 2020 08:26
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Happy birthday to edelgard
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Jun 23, 2020 10:08
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In the chapter where you take back the Kingdom capital is there any reason why that single sniper shows up halfway through as their own team and just runs towards where you started? I was too far away to bother with them at that point. It was odd.
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Jun 23, 2020 12:54
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snoremac posted:In the chapter where you take back the Kingdom capital is there any reason why that single sniper shows up halfway through as their own team and just runs towards where you started? I was too far away to bother with them at that point. It was odd. He drops a Sacred Bow. For Mercedes's Crest. That's all, really.
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Jun 23, 2020 12:56
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Ah. Well, she's black/white magic for me so that's near useless anyway.
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Jun 23, 2020 13:04
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snoremac posted:Ah. Well, she's black/white magic for me so that's near useless anyway. I really should have said it before but boy my mind isn't working right these days.. But anyone can use the bow, it's like the Spear of Assal and Caedacus Staff. Having the Crest just boosts HP regen.
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Jun 23, 2020 13:05
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Solution to the WV/VW Gronder Field issue: Have a scene where a messenger from Hubert to Claude is 'intercepted' by Dimitri. Message says "Hey Claude you've got a deal, turn on the Kingdom remnants and the Empire will confirm your autonomy and grant the Alliance lands in the former Kingdom." Dimitri freaks out, goes to kill 'em all mode. This way, you have a reason for Alliance-Kingdom fighting that emphasizes the shortcomings of their respective leaders: Dimitri is blinded by rage, and Claude has a reputation as an untrustworthy schemer. Plus, more demonstration of Hubert being clever!
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Jun 23, 2020 13:10
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I just did that fight today. Petra was a goddamn ninja. (On hard mode), she had a base avoid of like loving 96 and was by far the hardest unit to fight on that map. 
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Jun 23, 2020 18:50
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Except of course that even in VW Dimitri's forces go around to a smaller bridge rather than punching through the Alliance forces at the Bridge of Myrddin, so them all magically turning around and now being perfectly willing to go out of their way to fight them at Gronder still doesn't work, no matter how crazy he is. If I recall correctly, there was a lot of speculation, possibly with some support, that that battle was initially supposed to be a fog of war map (possibly due to machinations), which was then removed for being way too nasty, but they still wanted to keep everything else. So it just plain doesn't really work on either route now.
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Jun 23, 2020 18:56
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It's especially weird when you consider the one route where that map makes total sense, it just isn't in it. 
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Jun 23, 2020 19:03
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I think the simplest way to justify it without being a fog map would be Edelgard staging a false flag attack using false or captured uniforms. Make Dimitri and/or Claude think the other is attacking them, and neither is in a trusting mood to suspect it was an Imperial trick.
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Jun 23, 2020 19:06
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Cythereal posted:I think the simplest way to justify it without being a fog map would be Edelgard staging a false flag attack using false or captured uniforms. Make Dimitri and/or Claude think the other is attacking them, and neither is in a trusting mood to suspect it was an Imperial trick. That would prevent them from being able to use a named character on the map, and at that point in the story, that would be kind of sus.
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Jun 23, 2020 19:24
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Ok I was looking through the DLC for this game because I was considering getting it - is the side campaign they released the "Final" DLC? Because in the DLC description they call it a "Side Story" then say there is another main campaign or was that just poorly worded + the side campaign is its own thing right? I can just start it off the main menu even if I haven't played the game in a while?
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Jun 24, 2020 14:02
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yes, that's how it works. I wouldn't buy the DLC though if you aren't planning on playing another playthrough; otherwise you're missing a large part of it with the new characters, supports, paralogues, and other misc stuff integrated into the main game. the side story by itself isn't really worth the price.
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Jun 24, 2020 14:24
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Amppelix posted:yes, that's how it works. I was planning a playthrough "Eventually" - I didn't do all the houses and I thought it would be nice to do them again with all the DLC this time. Is there a house the new characters work better with?
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Jun 24, 2020 14:26
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THE AWESOME GHOST posted:I was planning a playthrough "Eventually" - I didn't do all the houses and I thought it would be nice to do them again with all the DLC this time. Is there a house the new characters work better with? Each of them are sort of tied to one of the four factions but have some house-crossing.
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Jun 24, 2020 14:41
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Yuri is mostly Beagles (backstory ties to Bernie, has a support with Bernie and Dorothea) but also has a support with Ingrid Balthus is entirely golden deer (Backstory ties to Hilda, has supports with Claude, Hilda, and Lysithea) Constance is mostly Beagles (Has support with Jeritza, Edelgard, and Ferdinand, but also has a support with Mercedes) Hapi is mostly Blue Lions (has supports with Dimitri and Ashe, but also supports Linhardt)
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Jun 24, 2020 14:59
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I recruited all four of them on my latest Crimson Flower run. I think that worked out pretty well since I wanted to recruit Lysithea and Mercedes for other supports anyway. It's also easier to use whoever you want on Crimson Flower because it doesn't have that one map where your house units are automatically deployed. Since I had already used all the original units, I dropped a couple of them to make room to deploy my recruits instead.
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Jun 24, 2020 15:35
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Aww the game is kind of shifty in that Gilbert will retreat from battle if his HP reaches 0 but he's effectively dead outside of cutscenes. I only realized too late to go back.
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Jun 25, 2020 13:07
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snoremac posted:Aww the game is kind of shifty in that Gilbert will retreat from battle if his HP reaches 0 but he's effectively dead outside of cutscenes. I only realized too late to go back. Yeah, sorry, the game won't let you fully kill him since he's cutscene-important, but at least you can give him what he deserves in Crimson Flower.
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Jun 25, 2020 13:31
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Well I was thinking more like "At least he'll be all right, I'll press on." But nah he's gone and I won't get the Annette/Gilbert max support scene 
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Jun 25, 2020 13:58
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THE AWESOME GHOST posted:I was planning a playthrough "Eventually" - I didn't do all the houses and I thought it would be nice to do them again with all the DLC this time. Is there a house the new characters work better with?
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Jun 25, 2020 14:07
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What is the more interesting path out of Claude and Edelgard? I figure I'll do the DLC after Dimitri, and then would prefer doing the better of the two in case I lose interest. I'm already about 100 hours in, including some standby time.
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Jun 25, 2020 14:14
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after playing any other route, crimson flower is a lot more different than your other options, which all share over 80% of their main chapters. And as just said, it also incorporates the DLC characters a lot smoother. Balthus is the only ashen wolf to have any supports with deer characters because gently caress them, i guess.
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Jun 25, 2020 14:39
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edelgard route is basically required reading. like if someone was asking a bare minimum id say whichever of lions or deer they prefer, and then edelgard.
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Jun 25, 2020 14:47
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Eh, I think Edelgard is the least important after Silver Snow. Claude actually learns the truth about the world. Edelgard merely thinks she knows the truth. All Edelgard's route really offers is seeing Rhea at her worst.
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Jun 25, 2020 14:50
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Yeah, you should make sure you play Crimson Flower (the Edelgard route). It's not my favorite route but it's the most different of the routes and gives you a cool different perspective. Plus Edelgard and Hubert are pretty fun characters on that route. Verdant Wind (Claude's route) has some cool parts, too, and the most lore of all the routes, so it's definitely worth playing, but if you might only play one more route, you should probably make it Crimson Flower. To a degree, Azure Moon -> Crimson Flower -> Verdant Wind might be the best order if you play three routes. You get the least lore in Azure Moon but a dramatic, personal story; you get some of the lore in Crimson Flower and the other side of the main war conflict; then you get the full story in Verdant Wind.
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Jun 25, 2020 14:53
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Cythereal posted:Eh, I think Edelgard is the least important after Silver Snow. quote:
Notably, Claude's truth (that he just gets from Rhea) seems to be missing a couple of details, like how Nabateans ruled over humanity, and Nemesis and the Elites were seen as heroes from the perspectives of the humans whose Nabatean rulers they overthrew, to the point where Rhea couldn't 100% blacken Nemesis' name in her revised history but had to have Nemesis be a hero who won against "evil gods" (likely the ruling Nabateans) before turning evil (he was always evil, but his rhetoric of "freedom from Nabateans" ran out of targets once all the Nabateans were gone so he reverted to shithead bandit). That seems like a pertinent detail regarding "actually learning the truth about the world". No route in the game gets the actual true history, because it's been smudged and messed with for so long and everyone involved has very strong biases about what went down (compare how Thales would answer to how Rhea would answer to how the Emperor at the time saw it and passed it down with their own lack of info and biases) Edit: As for what CF offers, the most obvious is how the other routes are basically the same baring branching off at the end, which is not the case with CF. Shinji117 fucked around with this message at 17:10 on Jun 25, 2020 |
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Jun 25, 2020 15:14
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The entire plot of FE3H being a proxy war between colonialist aliens and the indigenous humans they uplifted is probably the coolest thing about the lore.
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Jun 25, 2020 15:28
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Cythereal posted:Eh, I think Edelgard is the least important after Silver Snow. if you're looking for most plot, silver snow is the most important it's just a small bit of extra stuff claude doesn't have but it's there
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Jun 25, 2020 15:30
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So if Agarthians were the OG inhabitants of Fodlan, where did all the normal humans come from?
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Jun 25, 2020 16:15
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