Aeronautical Insanity: switching to secondary tolerances

The Something Awful Forums > Discussion > Automotive Insanity > Aeronautical Insanity: switching to secondary tolerances

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Nebakenezzer: Sep 13, 2005; The Mote in God's Eye

Here's a question: was the design of the A-4 Skyhawk taken out of design studies to create a submarine launched jet fighter?

# ? Jun 24, 2020 01:56

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# ? May 25, 2024 07:24

PainterofCrap: Oct 17, 2002; hey bebe

azflyboy posted:

April was absolutely dead. Most of my flights were cancelled due to lack of passengers, and it wasn't uncommon for me to work 2-3 legs and still have a single digit total number of passengers.

I can't comment on May, since I got put back on call due to 80% of our flights being cancelled, and didn't get used once.

This month, we've been mostly filling the airplane every leg (about 40 people because of blocking off seats), and the airports aren't quite the ghost towns they were a month or two ago, but it's still nowhere near as busy as it was back in February.

So far, I haven't run into issues with people refusing to wear masks, although I've had to tell a couple of flight attendants to quit discussing how this is all a hoax and masks are going to give us all hypoxia when they're within earshot of passengers during boarding.

Thanks, guys.

We may be flying to Florida in November, but I'm not sure what'll be going on in October...

azflyboy posted:

I did get a family wearing matching tyvek suits on the plane a few days ago, which the entire crew thought was pretty entertaining.

Holy

my son's SO works at Trader Joe's, and they've had a couple customers show up in the full PPE suit!

# ? Jun 24, 2020 03:06

azflyboy: Nov 9, 2005

Nebakenezzer posted:

Here's a question: was the design of the A-4 Skyhawk taken out of design studies to create a submarine launched jet fighter?

I don't think so. My understanding was that the dimensions on the A-4 were driven by not wanting to have folding wingtips to save weight.

# ? Jun 24, 2020 03:07

BobHoward: Feb 13, 2012; The only thing white people deserve is a bullet to their empty skull

Nebakenezzer posted:

Here's a question: was the design of the A-4 Skyhawk taken out of design studies to create a submarine launched jet fighter?

No, "Heinemann's Hot Rod" was a carrier aircraft from the start. In 1952 the Navy asked Douglas to design a jet replacement for the piston engined A-1 Skyraider. Heinemann and co. met or exceeded the required specs, in part by deliberately choosing to make it very compact and focusing on light weight and efficiency rather than building a big lumbering monster.

https://www.historynet.com/heinemanns-hot-rod.htm

(Note that they saved weight by using a small delta wing that could fit on a carrier elevator without needing a folding mechanism. Not a design you'd choose for a submarine! A sub launched aircraft would probably want to have a long skinny detachable wing, not a stubby fixed delta.)

# ? Jun 24, 2020 03:25

priznat: Jul 7, 2009; Let's get drunk and kiss each other all night.

I lolled seeing the pic of Heinemann in a suit with horn rims and a locked down hairdo and reading him described as a �maverick designer�.

Absolute maniac :haw:

# ? Jun 24, 2020 04:30

slidebite: Nov 6, 2005; Good egg

Nebakenezzer posted:

I found some pictures of an obscure but cool lookin' French flying boat:

I'd like to see the interior of that

# ? Jun 24, 2020 04:37

BIG HEADLINE: Jun 13, 2006; "Stand back, Ottawan ruffian, or face my lumens!"

slidebite posted:

I'd like to see the interior of that

https://www.secretprojects.co.uk/threads/sncase-se-200-development-variants-projects.9620/

Unfortunately the larger images are reg-locked, but they're big enough to get an idea.

# ? Jun 24, 2020 04:41

mllaneza: Apr 28, 2007; Veteran, Bermuda Triangle Expeditionary Force, 1993-1952

BIG HEADLINE posted:

https://www.secretprojects.co.uk/threads/sncase-se-200-development-variants-projects.9620/

Unfortunately the larger images are reg-locked, but they're big enough to get an idea.

A PBY is the classic, but imagine having one of these as an air yacht.

# ? Jun 24, 2020 05:09

simplefish: Mar 28, 2011; So long, and thanks for all the ~~fish~~ gallbladdΣrs!

Thanks guys, it's been a wild ride, I'm going to miss you all.

If you take cool crazy plane chat elsewhere, please post a link where you move to on the way out

# ? Jun 24, 2020 12:10

Bob A Feet: Aug 10, 2005; Dear diary, I got another erection today at work. SO embarrassing, but kinda hot. The CO asked me to fix up his dress uniform. I had stayed late at work to move his badges 1/8" to the left and pointed it out this morning. 1SG spanked me while the CO watched, once they caught it. Tomorrow I get to start all over again...

Yeah, anybody got a discord link? Love plane chat. Would love to do it in the post SA days.

# ? Jun 24, 2020 12:53

I would blow Dane Cook: Dec 26, 2008

gently caress the mods

# ? Jun 24, 2020 13:11

Platystemon: Feb 13, 2012; BREADS

I want you all to know that my source of weird planes was the WeirdWings subreddit.

# ? Jun 24, 2020 14:34

e.pilot: Nov 20, 2011; sometimes maybe good
sometimes maybe shit

Discord from the other Aviation thread

unpurposed posted:

I didn't find one in the thread so I created an Aviation Goons Discord server here: https://discord.gg/dgs64Bg .

Hope to see y'all there - this is one of my favorite threads and it would be shame to lose out in case the forums go down.

EDIT: Previous invite expired - link above should be valid.

# ? Jun 24, 2020 15:06

rscott: Dec 10, 2009

What drama did I miss now

# ? Jun 24, 2020 15:29

e.pilot: Nov 20, 2011; sometimes maybe good
sometimes maybe shit

rscott posted:

What drama did I miss now

Lowtax beats women

e:

https://forums.somethingawful.com/showthread.php?threadid=3928980&perpage=40

# ? Jun 24, 2020 15:38

rscott: Dec 10, 2009

I see that now, welp. RIP to the only car forum not full of racists

# ? Jun 24, 2020 16:06

Safety Dance: Sep 10, 2007; Five degrees to starboard!

People in the June Chat Thread are handing out Slack* invites as a stopgap in case Slidebite or someone wants to start their own phpbb forum.

* It's like Discord** for business

** It's like IRC*** for Zoomers****

*** It's like an email list for people who understand what Unix is

**** They're like regular people, but they've worn Heelys

Safety Dance fucked around with this message at 16:27 on Jun 24, 2020

# ? Jun 24, 2020 16:21

The Ferret King: Nov 23, 2003; cluck cluck

Safety Dance posted:

People in the June Chat Thread are handing out Slack* invites as a stopgap in case Slidebite or someone wants to start their own phpbb forum.

* It's like Discord** for business

** It's like IRC*** for Zoomers****

*** It's like an email list for people who understand what Unix is

**** They're like regular people, but they've worn Heelys

Thank you, I understand.

# ? Jun 24, 2020 17:31

Captain Apollo: Jun 24, 2003; King of the Pilots, CFI

The Ferret King posted:

Thank you, I understand.

I understand your understandment.

(love you)

# ? Jun 24, 2020 18:07

The Ferret King: Nov 23, 2003; cluck cluck

Captain Apollo posted:

I understand your understandment.

(love you)

Go to hell friend

# ? Jun 24, 2020 23:15

AzureSkys: Apr 27, 2003

Yesterday evening an AH-64 flew over really low and did a few circles nearby then came right over head and back West towards JBLM. I live an hour SE of Seattle and never have seen one out in these parts before. Chinooks and C-17s often fly around, though. It was pretty cool to see and surprised me with how quiet it was compared to the helis I usually see around here.

# ? Jun 25, 2020 00:33

priznat: Jul 7, 2009; Let's get drunk and kiss each other all night.

AzureSkys posted:

Yesterday evening an AH-64 flew over really low and did a few circles nearby then came right over head and back West towards JBLM. I live an hour SE of Seattle and never have seen one out in these parts before. Chinooks and C-17s often fly around, though. It was pretty cool to see and surprised me with how quiet it was compared to the helis I usually see around here.

Apparently the �squashed x� of the tailrotor makes it quieter. Tail rotors being a major source of noise in helicopters and all.

NOTAR helos are even weirder, they are spooky quiet.

# ? Jun 25, 2020 00:36

meltie: Nov 9, 2003; Not a sodding fridge.

simplefish posted:

Thanks guys, it's been a wild ride, I'm going to miss you all.

If you take cool crazy plane chat elsewhere, please post a link where you move to on the way out

Please join the AI slack while we work out what to do next.

meltie fucked around with this message at 06:26 on Jun 25, 2020

# ? Jun 25, 2020 01:13

slidebite: Nov 6, 2005; Good egg

So, the Pakistanis are saying the crash happened because of the rona

https://ca.yahoo.com/news/probe-finds-procedure-violations-pakistan-080022866.html

quote:

The pilots of a Pakistan airliner that crashed last month, killing 97, were distracted and preoccupied as they talked about the coronavirus pandemic while preparing for an initial failed attempt to land, the country's aviation minister said on Wednesday.

The Airbus A320 <AIR.PA> of national carrier Pakistan International Airlines crashed on May 22 in the southern city of Karachi, killing all but two of those aboard as it came down a kilometre (0.6 mile) short of the runway on its second try.

The engines of the aircraft had touched the ground as it landed without its wheels down on the first attempt, before taking off again, minister Ghulam Sarwar Khan told parliament as he presented an initial report on the disaster.

The flight data showed the landing gear was lowered at 10 nautical miles, Khan said, but then raised again 5 nautical miles from the runway, which he described as "beyond comprehension".

The aircraft was "100 percent fit to fly" and there was no technical fault, he said, but added that the pilots were not "focused" because of the pandemic.

"The discussion throughout was about corona," Khan said, referring to exchanges between the pilot and co-pilot he said he had listened to on the cockpit voice recorder. "Corona was dominant over their mind. Their family was affected."

The report, reviewed by Reuters, did not spell out the pilots' conversation on the virus, but said they did not follow set protocols.

"Several warnings and alerts such as over-speed, landing gear not down and ground proximity alerts, were disregarded," it added. "The landing was undertaken with landing gear retracted. The aircraft touched the runway surface on its engines."

The report said the aircraft was cleared by controllers to land without observing that the landing gears were not extended, nor was it conveyed to the pilots that the engines had scraped the runway.

The report added that there was no demonstration of any malfunction in the landing gear system on Flight PK8303, which had taken off from the eastern city of Lahore.

Shortly after the engines scraped the runway and a go-around was attempted, both engines failed one-by-one, the report said.

"When the plane took off again, both engines had been damaged; and when the plane was making an approach for a second landing it didn't have that power and fell on the residential area," Khan told a news conference later on Wednesday.

Khan said the captain and co-pilot, both of whom were killed, were experienced and medically fit.

Air traffic control drew the pilot's attention to the irregularity and urged a go-around, Khan said.

"They were warned by the controllers, but said, 'I'll manage'� and then they started discussing corona again."

"The last words from the pilot were, 'Oh God, oh God, oh God'," Khan added.

The secretary of the Pakistan Airline Pilots' Association, Imran Narejo, told Reuters that pilots were expected to not be distracted during crucial procedures such as landing, but other factors should also be investigated for the complete report.

"It was pointed out the pilots were busy talking about corona, and that they may have overlooked a few things," he said. But other reasons were also there, like them not being provided proper support from air traffic control".

# ? Jun 25, 2020 01:29

yellowD: Mar 7, 2007

This thread can and should live on at breadnroses.net

# ? Jun 25, 2020 01:31

standard.deviant: May 17, 2012; Globally Indigent

yellowD posted:

This thread can and should live on at breadnroses.net

I�m on the Slack we�re posting plane butts

# ? Jun 25, 2020 01:33

priznat: Jul 7, 2009; Let's get drunk and kiss each other all night.

I didn�t realize there were 2 survivors in that crash, it�s wild to me when there are just a couple of people who live through an airliner crash.

# ? Jun 25, 2020 01:34

Sagebrush: Feb 26, 2012

yellowD posted:

This thread can and should live on at breadnroses.net

i registered my username to reserve it but i'm not paying 10 bucks until SA actually shuts down

# ? Jun 25, 2020 01:49

yellowD: Mar 7, 2007

Sagebrush posted:

i registered my username to reserve it but i'm not paying 10 bucks until SA actually shuts down

they're processing everyone in the queue for free manually, so the 10bux is optional

# ? Jun 25, 2020 01:52

Delta-P: Jan 1, 2020

Just wanted to say this has been my most enjoyed thread over the years, thank all of you for the posts.

# ? Jun 25, 2020 02:16

e.pilot: Nov 20, 2011; sometimes maybe good
sometimes maybe shit

evil_bunnY posted:

e.pilot posted:
I for one am shocked that a foreign carrier would have both subpar maintenance and pilots.

Can we please not do this again.

Gladly, as soon as it stops being true.

https://www.abc.net.au/news/2020-06-24/pilots-in-pakistan-air-crash-distracted-by-coronavirus-worry/12390122

quote:

The aircraft was "100 percent fit to fly" and there was no technical fault

The flight data recorder showed the landing gear was lowered at 10 nautical miles, Mr Khan said, but then raised again 5 nautical miles from the runway, which he described as "beyond comprehension".

"Several warnings and alerts such as over-speed, landing gear not down and ground proximity alerts, were disregarded," it added.

# ? Jun 25, 2020 02:16

hobbesmaster: Jan 28, 2008

Should�ve been �or� because in this case it was pilots.

# ? Jun 25, 2020 02:57

Midjack: Dec 24, 2007

yellowD posted:

This thread can and should live on at breadnroses.net

I�m not going anywhere near a forum set up and run by c-spam posters and seeing this advertisement in every loving thread here is getting tiresome.

# ? Jun 25, 2020 03:05

e.pilot: Nov 20, 2011; sometimes maybe good
sometimes maybe shit

hobbesmaster posted:

Should�ve been �or� because in this case it was pilots.

Fair

# ? Jun 25, 2020 03:06

Arson Daily: Aug 11, 2003

There are literally thousands dead from incompetent American pilots and poor American aircraft maintenance so let's not throw rocks in our glass house just yet.

# ? Jun 25, 2020 03:09

Kia Soul Enthusias: May 9, 2004; zoom-zoom; Toilet Rascal

Arson Daily posted:

There are literally thousands dead from incompetent American pilots and poor American aircraft maintenance so let's not throw rocks in our glass house just yet.

For sure. The frustrating thing is these are lessons already learned (sterile cockpit, etc). Is this cockpit discussion how they got into a high approach?

# ? Jun 25, 2020 03:20

Arson Daily: Aug 11, 2003

It's probably a factor, but there are times where myself and the person I'm flying with have been totally focused on the task at hand and have still ended up hot and high on final. It happens, you just need to be ready and willing to go around and not push a bad situation. It's easy to say but hard to do in the real world as a majority of pilots regardless of nationality will try to save a bad situation rather than try again.

# ? Jun 25, 2020 03:45

ausgezeichnet: Sep 18, 2005; In my country this is definitely not offensive!; Nap Ghost

Arson Daily posted:

It's probably a factor, but there are times where myself and the person I'm flying with have been totally focused on the task at hand and have still ended up hot and high on final. It happens, you just need to be ready and willing to go around and not push a bad situation. It's easy to say but hard to do in the real world as a majority of pilots regardless of nationality will try to save a bad situation rather than try again.

I lack the gumption right now to actually look up statistics, but I'd be willing to bet that one of the top three causal factors in landing accidents is unstable approaches. Every single one of the 10 operators I've worked for in the past 25 years (when stable approaches really entered the SOP realm) has had a no-poo poo, get-fired-if-you-violate-this policy on continuing unstable approaches. Never enforced. I have called unstable go-arounds and had them ignored (including with a Chief Pilot flying). FOQA data supports the reality that only about 3-5% of unstable approaches result in a go-around.

It's the second most ignored rule after O2 masks at altitude.

# ? Jun 25, 2020 15:23

`Nemesis: Dec 30, 2000; railroad graffiti

https://www.cnn.com/2020/06/25/business/pakistan-fake-pilot-intl-hnk/index.html

30% of their pilots don�t have actual pilots licenses. Big yikes.

# ? Jun 25, 2020 16:11

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# ? May 25, 2024 07:24

e.pilot: Nov 20, 2011; sometimes maybe good
sometimes maybe shit

`Nemesis posted:

https://www.cnn.com/2020/06/25/business/pakistan-fake-pilot-intl-hnk/index.html

30% of their pilots don�t have actual pilots licenses. Big yikes.

Holy moly

# ? Jun 25, 2020 16:15

The Something Awful Forums > Discussion > Automotive Insanity > Aeronautical Insanity: switching to secondary tolerances

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