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Thanks everyone. So if you fail the rouse check, the discipline still happens, but your hunger goes up? That seems pretty straight forward.
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Jun 22, 2020 19:03
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Soonmot posted:Thanks everyone. So if you fail the rouse check, the discipline still happens, but your hunger goes up? That seems pretty straight forward. Yup! As someone playing in a V5 game at the moment the main thing it's done is to make the party Tremere kill someone in a club bathroom because he hosed up trying to feed after failing a bunch of rouse checks to do his weird Tremere rituals at the start of the night. (The same thing later happened with our club's security guy, although we later determined this was because we were misinterpreting when The Beast takes over.)
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Jun 22, 2020 20:36
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Soonmot posted:Thanks everyone. So if you fail the rouse check, the discipline still happens, but your hunger goes up? That seems pretty straight forward. It seems similar to the conflict system in L5R 5th edition, you fail enough dice rolls until you fill your *drama* meter and poo poo happens. Angry Lobster fucked around with this message at 23:00 on Jun 22, 2020 |
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Jun 22, 2020 20:44
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Also a rouse check is a single dice roll with a difficulty of 6. If you have to make a check there’s a 50:50 chance whether you’ll be fine Or you’ll incur a hunger penalty. So using any discipline level that has a rouse check has an accumulating risk.
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Jun 22, 2020 21:12
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Hence the summation that in V5, you have a pool of 5 blood points (but almost always have 4/5 in the tank, at best) while your powers cost 1d2-1 blood points to use. I think Hunger as a number that ticks upwards and straightforwardly translates into hunger dice is good, but powers with randomized skill costs are bad - I know it averages out the same over the long run, but it's really weird to get situations where two vampires each use three discipline powers apiece and one remains fine while the other winds up completely tapped out and voracious due to a bad series of coin flips. I think if I were rewriting V5 I'd just make Hunger go from 1-10 rather than 1-5, replace every "rouse check" with just "gain 1 Hunger", and create a longer, smoother gradient for how hunger dice affect roll outcomes. Like, you might need multiple 1s on a failure, or 10s on a success, or both, to be hunger dice in order to act out in severe, bridge-burning ways (although minimal results might still result in hisses, briefly bared fangs, too-long stares at jugular veins, and other signs that mostly put off regular mortals but can tip off hunters). Ferrinus fucked around with this message at 21:27 on Jun 22, 2020 |
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Jun 22, 2020 21:18
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Frankly everyone should just abandon V5, V20, and Requiem. Just play Wraith. 
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Jun 22, 2020 21:34
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Lord_Hambrose posted:Frankly everyone should just abandon V5, V20, and Requiem. Just play Wraith.
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Jun 22, 2020 22:03
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Angry Lobster posted:It seems similar too the conflict system in L5R 5th edition, you fail enough dice rolls until you fill your *drama* meter and poo poo happens. Essentially, yeah. It's less of a pool or meter and more of a clock or timer. And it has a nice flattening effect where the most powerful vampires are always just a couple failed rolls away from losing it and going into a Hunger frenzy, especially if they're trying to pop off with disciplines. Basically every time I want to use a Discipline that rouses (which is all the good ones), I have to wait for half a second to be like "is it worth it to risk getting hungrier, will this gently caress up my whole night?" and I think that's cool and fun, personally
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Jun 22, 2020 22:51
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citybeatnik posted:It's not a true WoD game unless you roll 16 dice to hit and still somehow do zero damage on the roll due to 1s. Now this is what I call a game of personal horror lol
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Jun 23, 2020 00:22
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GNU Order posted:In a broad sense you do have a minor amount of control over it. Increase your blood potency and you can reroll Discipline rouse checks This guy gets it ElNarez posted:I feel like this discounts the fact that, in V5, there always exists a possibility that you will use a power at no cost. You can, in theory, do cool poo poo all the time and barely get penalized for it. I would even argue that passing a Rouse check on a discipline acts as an incentive to do more cool poo poo further down the line. Failing a check, however, means you have to feed, which creates an opportunity for conflict, which is also cool. This guy also gets it Oberst fucked around with this message at 00:30 on Jun 23, 2020 |
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Jun 23, 2020 00:25
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What's kind of sad here is that if the V5 team really wanted to make a game about managing an eternal, accursed hunger rather than about managing the mana orb at the right side of your screen, the solution was staring them in the face: just remove the rule that you can't make voluntary rouse checks at Hunger 5. Instead, make it so that failing a rouse check at Hunger 5 automatically throws you into a scenelong (nightlong?) frenzy of some kind. Maybe each time you do it you risk Humanity loss regardless of what happens in the frenzy, or you definitely lose Humanity if you aren't able to find any blood in the frenzy but risk losing it the usual way if you end up eating someone alive. Boom! Limitless power! Objectively true on the base, game-mechanical level that vampires don't need blood - they just want it, and want it more and more badly the more they revel in their power. They don't need to steal it from us to survive, just to keep pretending they're human. Ferrinus fucked around with this message at 03:20 on Jun 23, 2020 |
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Jun 23, 2020 03:15
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That's actually a real solid plan. Vampires can live forever just by being human, but the more they push that supernatural edge, the more they lose of their humanity.
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Jun 23, 2020 07:29
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Lord_Hambrose posted:Frankly everyone should just abandon V5, V20, and Requiem. Just play Wraith. 
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Jun 23, 2020 07:51
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Ferrinus posted:What's kind of sad here is that if the V5 team really wanted to make a game about managing an eternal, accursed hunger rather than about managing the mana orb at the right side of your screen, the solution was staring them in the face: just remove the rule that you can't make voluntary rouse checks at Hunger 5. Instead, make it so that failing a rouse check at Hunger 5 automatically throws you into a scenelong (nightlong?) frenzy of some kind. Maybe each time you do it you risk Humanity loss regardless of what happens in the frenzy, or you definitely lose Humanity if you aren't able to find any blood in the frenzy but risk losing it the usual way if you end up eating someone alive. It feels like the current hunger mechanics in V5 can quickly spiral out of control, too, with a few bad rolls.
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Jun 23, 2020 12:15
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Dawgstar posted:It feels like the current hunger mechanics in V5 can quickly spiral out of control, too, with a few bad rolls. Yeah, but that’s because you’re effectively starting with 8 blood points and randomly losing 2 at a time, so it’s very easy to drop to 0 and lose the ability to do anything. If Hunger only stopped you from controlling yourself but didn’t stop you from exerting your powers it’d feel very different. Ferrinus fucked around with this message at 16:31 on Jun 23, 2020 |
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Jun 23, 2020 16:27
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citybeatnik posted:"Breath Deep" was the werewolf paperback where that work around was first encountered by me. I'm afraid to ask what happens to those metis, how bad is it?
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Jun 23, 2020 23:08
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Ferrinus posted:Yeah, but that’s because you’re effectively starting with 8 blood points and randomly losing 2 at a time, so it’s very easy to drop to 0 and lose the ability to do anything. If Hunger only stopped you from controlling yourself but didn’t stop you from exerting your powers it’d feel very different. Conceptually that makes more sense. The whole feel is that major discipline use is you trying to tap the power of the beast without fully waking it. And if you're unlucky then the beast takes over and fucks things up until you can feed to get it under control again. So maxing out hunger shouldn't really stop you using your powers, it's just that you've lost control so the default outcome should be messy and potentially masquerade breaching. I'm not sure what the best way is to represent that mechanically though. People who say the current method is a bit fiddly are also right. You want something that has minimal bookkeeping while still making you think twice before voluntarily losing control to the beast.
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Jun 23, 2020 23:11
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xanthan posted:I'm afraid to ask what happens to those metis, how bad is it? It's pretty fuckin' bad. they start raping
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Jun 23, 2020 23:20
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Hillary 2020 posted:Conceptually that makes more sense. The whole feel is that major discipline use is you trying to tap the power of the beast without fully waking it. And if you're unlucky then the beast takes over and fucks things up until you can feed to get it under control again. So maxing out hunger shouldn't really stop you using your powers, it's just that you've lost control so the default outcome should be messy and potentially masquerade breaching. I'm really confident in my suggestion from above, actually: you can make as many rouse checks as you want, but succeeding on a voluntary rouse check at Hunger 5 drops you into automatic frenzy and dumps a bunch of Stains on you regardless of the outcome of that frenzy.
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Jun 23, 2020 23:48
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Rand Brittain posted:It's pretty fuckin' bad. Hey now, let's be clear here, there's plenty ambiguity in the rules about this. Specifically, whether it applies to the incapacitated, or the dead. 
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Jun 24, 2020 00:08
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Yeah, the other two get human eating or... well, I forget what Beast-of-War does. I assume it's not compulsive macrame though.
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Jun 24, 2020 00:09
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Dawgstar posted:Yeah, the other two get human eating or... well, I forget what Beast-of-War does. I assume it's not compulsive macrame though.
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Jun 24, 2020 00:13
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Ferrinus posted:I'm really confident in my suggestion from above, actually: you can make as many rouse checks as you want, but succeeding on a voluntary rouse check at Hunger 5 drops you into automatic frenzy and dumps a bunch of Stains on you regardless of the outcome of that frenzy. Yeah I think you don't so much take blood to use as a pool to power disciplines, more you have to drink it to keep the beast quiet for a while. That's a different angle to older editions of Vampire. Hillary 2024 fucked around with this message at 00:57 on Jun 24, 2020 |
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Jun 24, 2020 00:44
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Hillary 2020 posted:Yeah I think you don't so much take blood to use as a pool to power disciplines, more you have to drink it to keep the beast quiet for a while. That's a different angle to older editions of Vampire. That would be a great angle, and I would play that game. But then why not divorce that from being your do cool things resource so that you can still regularly do cook things. I think the thing that puts me off most about the mechanics of V5 is that it’s working with multiple tracks and costs that don’t need to be part of the same event. Or if it weren’t set up to wreck a person’s night because the dice are coming up poorly. Modern game design seems to mostly be moving away from those mechanics (at least from what I’ve seen), but that doesn’t mean it’s all bad. I just think that it works better when it’s working consistently and with clear purpose.
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Jun 24, 2020 03:51
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Nessus posted:I think Beast-of-War goes full kama-crazy berserker mode and does not distinguish friend from foe, where even a pissed off Ahroun spending Rage like borrowed money can pick targets and such. They attack to kill and mutilate fallen foes and allies alike. I think some editions make them target allies first, or exclusively.
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Jun 24, 2020 13:22
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Is there a Discord for this other than the tradgames one?
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Jun 24, 2020 14:18
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Doing my part and manually archiving every page of every mugrim PBP
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Jun 24, 2020 16:53
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Is there a Spooky escape discord like is fashionable for other threads? This is a thread I enjoy following and would miss many posters and their thoughts. What a time.
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Jun 24, 2020 19:27
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Yeah. It has been a pleasure, folks. If this is the end, I'll miss these threads.
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Jun 25, 2020 00:18
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Mage chat: Would it be appropriate for the Mind arcana to discover that a place had someone in it who experienced an intense emotion, if it had that spiritual resonance?
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Jun 25, 2020 00:22
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Soonmot posted:Mage chat: Would it be appropriate for the Mind arcana to discover that a place had someone in it who experienced an intense emotion, if it had that spiritual resonance? Probably not; Resonance is more of a Prime thing (or a Spirit thing). But I'd ask an ST anyway because that sounds like a fun use of the Arcanum.
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Jun 25, 2020 02:05
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Oh, I am the ST and thought it would be fun to give my mastigos something to do along side the moros as they investigate a haunted house. I was just curious if anyone had done something similar.
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Jun 25, 2020 03:17
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Any world/CoD discords set up?
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Jun 25, 2020 03:59
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Soonmot posted:Oh, I am the ST and thought it would be fun to give my mastigos something to do along side the moros as they investigate a haunted house. I was just curious if anyone had done something similar. I’ve given strong emotional residue as something a mage using mind sight can pick up on before. Big emotions leaving some sort of echo in the fabric of the lie seems cool to me, and if it seems cool, I tend to do it unless it’s going to just entirely break the balance for the players. You could get some really strong, weird, and varied emotional echoes from a haunted house.
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Jun 25, 2020 04:53
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SirKibbles posted:Any world/CoD discords set up? There's an official CoD server but Idk how one is invited
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Jun 25, 2020 05:23
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SirKibbles posted:Any world/CoD discords set up? There are several. There is the official OPP Discord server; it's not incredibly active because its community is split among other non-WoD/ChroD products, but if there is information you'll find it there first. There is ROMzombie's unofficial Chronicles of Darkness server which I don't have a link for but you can Google easily enough; I stopped posting there years ago because the admin is the picture of someone so invested in the idea of decorum that it took actual years before they began banning agitators and Nazis, but it is probably the most active place to talk about the ChroD in general. I'm one of the admins on a decent-sized server dedicated to Mage: the Awakening; we've got a fairly active community and a collated homebrew document in excess of some actual sourcebooks. There are also a few other Discords dedicated to specific lines but most of them are fairly small and not very active; one dedicated to Vampire: the Requiem is the largest and most active. Official OPP Discord: https://discord.gg/5uckcBk Mage: the Awakening Discord: https://discord.gg/aebSArS Vampire: the Requiem Discord: https://discord.gg/mXMCcTM
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Jun 25, 2020 10:58
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Ironslave’s Mage discord is the best place for Magechat, but it’s so active it’s like a firehose.
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Jun 25, 2020 11:50
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Whatever discord you may choose to join, don't let Metapod in.
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Jun 25, 2020 14:29
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Alternately, give him a role that only allows him to post in a channel full of bots that say disparaging things about V5.
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Jun 25, 2020 14:37
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That would be ironic and appropriate. We're living in the Final Nights WoD goons, stay safe.
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Jun 25, 2020 20:27
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