|
Dawgstar posted:Dare I ask? a quick Google tells me that it's a scenario for Eclipse Phase about fighting a criminal syndicate that's turning people into slaves that also takes inspiration from Vodun and Afro-Caribbean influences.
|
#
?
Jun 26, 2020 14:56
|
|
|
|
| # ? May 26, 2024 21:56 |
|
|
gradenko_2000 posted:a quick Google tells me that it's a scenario for Eclipse Phase about fighting a criminal syndicate that's turning people into slaves that also takes inspiration from Vodun and Afro-Caribbean influences. It's really loving bad. Grinding cortical stacks for medicine and eating fresh space rats bad. 
|
|
#
?
Jun 26, 2020 14:58
|
|
|
gradenko_2000 posted:a quick Google tells me that it's a scenario for Eclipse Phase about fighting a criminal syndicate that's turning people into slaves that also takes inspiration from Vodun and Afro-Caribbean influences. By which we mean it includes an internal sidebar saying that yeah it is horrifically offensive and bears no relation to actual Vodun or other Afro-Caribbean religions But not offensive enough to, you know, not have written it, I guess
|
|
#
?
Jun 26, 2020 15:15
|
|
|
How the hell EP got this 'woke' rep is beyond me. It is the worst sort of white anarchism, from the whitest loving anarchist tendency there is*. * I explicitly count out ancaps and whatever the racists call themselves in this grouping, as they ain't anarchists.
|
|
#
?
Jun 26, 2020 16:43
|
|
|
Remember when one of the EP devs went on a huge Terfy gender essentialism rant and everyone was just kind of "You made a game where anyone can literally put their brain in an opposite gendered body and the society is 100 okay with it???"
|
|
#
?
Jun 26, 2020 16:51
|
|
|
Kurieg posted:Remember when one of the EP devs went on a huge Terfy gender essentialism rant and everyone was just kind of "You made a game where anyone can literally put their brain in an opposite gendered body and the society is 100 okay with it???" Pretty sure that was Richard Morgan, the Altered Carbon author, and not anyone involved in EP.
|
|
#
?
Jun 26, 2020 16:53
|
|
|
e: nm
Absurd Alhazred fucked around with this message at 19:33 on Jul 22, 2020 |
|
#
?
Jun 26, 2020 17:00
|
|
|
StratGoatCom posted:How the hell EP got this 'woke' rep is beyond me. They got a lot of goodwill for being one of the earlier places to tell MRAs to get the gently caress out.
|
|
#
?
Jun 26, 2020 17:01
|
|
|
Absurd Alhazred posted:Please let me know if you want me to crosspost these to the discord: what a fuckin' dipshit
|
|
#
?
Jun 26, 2020 17:59
|
|
|
His suggested alternative to D&D appears to be his own third-party 5e supplements. Never trust a Clegg, evidently.
|
|
#
?
Jun 26, 2020 18:10
|
|
|
With all the SA stuff I completely missed the Scott Lynch and Elizabeth Bear stuff going down. Holy moly. https://www.alexandrarowland.net/single-post/2020/06/25/On-Scott-Lynch-and-Elizabeth-Bear
|
|
#
?
Jun 26, 2020 18:15
|
|
|
e: nm
Absurd Alhazred fucked around with this message at 19:33 on Jul 22, 2020 |
|
#
?
Jun 26, 2020 18:24
|
|
|
dwarf74 posted:With all the SA stuff I completely missed the Scott Lynch and Elizabeth Bear stuff going down. This is such a loving bummer.
|
|
#
?
Jun 26, 2020 18:25
|
|
|
Jaym Gates has some stuff to say about Matt McElroy and industry men in general (this is the other Matt from WW/OPP). It's not the worst, but it is still basically the same stuff you hear every time. There is no bottom.
|
|
#
?
Jun 26, 2020 18:28
|
|
|
That's pretty bad given that he does most of the customer-facing stuff at DriveThru.
|
|
#
?
Jun 26, 2020 18:36
|
|
|
dwarf74 posted:With all the SA stuff I completely missed the Scott Lynch and Elizabeth Bear stuff going down. God drat it is it so hard to not treat people like disposable objects?
|
|
#
?
Jun 26, 2020 18:45
|
|
|
Lemon-Lime posted:His suggested alternative to D&D appears to be his own third-party 5e supplements. I don't have an issue with people shilling themselves, but this is just "why won't people educate meeeeee" shrieking.
|
|
#
?
Jun 26, 2020 18:57
|
|
|
There are a lot of people coming out to contradict what Alexandra said. https://twitter.com/ArkadyMartine/status/1276496498688094216?s=20
|
|
#
?
Jun 26, 2020 19:01
|
|
|
If someone is convinced D&D is bad, and doesn't like any of the offered alternatives and thus goes back to playing videogames because they've made the decision RPGs aren't their bag I think that just sounds like a person making a reasonable decision after examining a bunch of options for having fun. Rather than some kind of preventable hell tragedy.
|
|
#
?
Jun 26, 2020 19:01
|
|
|
Lemon-Lime posted:Pretty sure that was Richard Morgan, the Altered Carbon author, and not anyone involved in EP. You're correct. Richard Morgan has proudly thrown in with J.K. Rowling et al. In contrast, Eclipse Phase has made an effort on gender issues. Second Edition includes some pages on relationships and gender, including what transgender issues look like in a transhumanist future. There were some critiques of the section on twitter and the authors engaged and discussed it right away.
|
|
#
?
Jun 26, 2020 19:04
|
|
|
Absurd Alhazred posted:Please let me know if you want me to crosspost these to the discord: I like how the last tweet is him saying he's going to mute the entire thread. 'Look, all you people tearing down D&D aren't suggesting alternatives! Now if you'll excuse me, I'm going to plug my ears so I can't hear you suggest alternatives.'
|
|
#
?
Jun 26, 2020 19:12
|
|
|
Absurd Alhazred posted:Please let me know if you want me to crosspost these to the discord: This guy's take was just... aggressively bad, on a number of levels. I'll repeat here what I said on Twitter, which is that the thing he should be saying is not "other games are just as flawed as D&D" -- it's that "other games are only as flawed as D&D, despite being made by one person you've never heard of on a budget of $0". Give any indie designer D&D money and D&D reach, and they'd deliver something an order of magnitude better.
|
|
#
?
Jun 26, 2020 19:13
|
|
|
potatocubed posted:
I dunno this is also a stretch. More money doesn't nessecarily really fix these types of issues.
|
|
#
?
Jun 26, 2020 19:18
|
|
|
I feel like I need to respond to every post in this thread individually because each time I re-read one it unlocks new depths of absurdity.
|
|
#
?
Jun 26, 2020 19:25
|
|
|
Dexo posted:I dunno this is also a stretch. I can think of a lot of medium- to high-crunch games whose biggest issues are either clarity- or balance-based, and those are problems you could absolutely solve by throwing enough playtesters at them. D&D's designers have the money to do this and deliberately don't because they're in the business of nostalgia. Tuxedo Catfish fucked around with this message at 19:32 on Jun 26, 2020 |
|
#
?
Jun 26, 2020 19:27
|
|
|
To be honest this exchange seems like a distraction from the idea that the "perfect" game does not exist, and expecting someone's recommendations to be perfect or for them to be accountable(???) for any criticisms leveled against the game is loving absurd.
|
|
#
?
Jun 26, 2020 19:39
|
|
|
Absurd Alhazred posted:But seriously, people are doing good work decolonizing D&D, which I think is constructive enough, even if they're not offering a different system (which they and others often are). Hey, I’d love to hear more about this, a topic I may have locked myself out of by pretty much ignoring 5e.
|
|
#
?
Jun 26, 2020 19:51
|
|
|
DalaranJ posted:Hey, I’d love to hear more about this, a topic I may have locked myself out of by pretty much ignoring 5e. So, there's a couple problematic elements here. One is racial ability modifiers, particularly penalties. Saying an entire race is just inherently stupider reeks of biotruths and the sort of excuses used by white people when 'civilizing' indigenous tribes. Another problem is declaring entire races 'evil'. Again, this is classic Othering historically used to justify genocide. It's particularly bad when orcs, the poster child for this kind of reductionism, almost always have the aesthetic coding of indigenous people. 'Yeah, that group of people that mostly hunt and gather and dress like Native Americans? They're all evil, kill them.' is NOT a good look. There's also issues with portraying every nonhuman species as a monoculture. It helps reinforce the Othering as well. EDIT: This is not comprehensive, just what came off the top of my head right now.
|
|
#
?
Jun 26, 2020 20:04
|
|
|
The wording with half-orc and half-elf is also pretty yikes.
|
|
#
?
Jun 26, 2020 20:06
|
|
|
e: nm
Absurd Alhazred fucked around with this message at 19:33 on Jul 22, 2020 |
|
#
?
Jun 26, 2020 20:08
|
|
|
Gygax himself was incredibly racist and shoved his opinions into the game and species.
Admiral Joeslop fucked around with this message at 21:07 on Jun 26, 2020 |
|
#
?
Jun 26, 2020 20:24
|
|
|
Fantasy races aren't different species; the idea of differentiation based on "race" or "ancestry" is just 18th-century race science reborn. You'd have to excise all of it and no one who plays D&D seems to want to do that, they just want to replace stat bonuses for being a Dorf with stat bonuses for being Fantasy Russian.
|
|
#
?
Jun 26, 2020 20:34
|
|
|
Zurui posted:Fantasy races aren't different species; the idea of differentiation based on "race" or "ancestry" is just 18th-century race science reborn. You'd have to excise all of it and no one who plays D&D seems to want to do that, they just want to replace stat bonuses for being a Dorf with stat bonuses for being Fantasy Russian. If were getting rid of racial bonuses entirely then poo poo, there a whole lot more than D&D were going to have to look at, its a pervasive aspect of any RPG setting that is not just humans. And why wouldn't it be its an easy way to differentiate between options. I'm not sure what the solution is even. People like having those options matter in some way mechanically.
|
|
#
?
Jun 26, 2020 20:44
|
|
|
Death to Ability Scores
|
|
#
?
Jun 26, 2020 20:46
|
|
|
imo its fine to have stuff thats maybe slightly grody in certain contexts so long as you work within it. like yeah elves having improved eyesight or whatever isnt like, 'woke' but its relatively harmless and it gives you some distinction for being an elf. all orcs being genetically evil at birth is kinda hosed up and also really boring. you can say the latter is weird and should go while being fine with the former.
|
|
#
?
Jun 26, 2020 20:50
|
|
|
Setting aside DTAS for a second, why not just associate ability score bonuses with class and give races features instead (i.e. flight, fire breath, etc.)?
|
|
#
?
Jun 26, 2020 20:51
|
|
|
Endorph posted:imo its fine to have stuff thats maybe slightly grody in certain contexts so long as you work within it. like yeah elves having improved eyesight or whatever isnt like, 'woke' but its relatively harmless and it gives you some distinction for being an elf. all orcs being genetically evil at birth is kinda hosed up and also really boring. you can say the latter is weird and should go while being fine with the former. It has nothing to do with being "woke." If Dwarves are a different species then being able to see heat is fine; if they're just prosthetic humans then it's dumb as hell. You can't have your
|
|
#
?
Jun 26, 2020 20:54
|
|
|
King of Solomon posted:Setting aside DTAS for a second, why not just associate ability score bonuses with class and give races features instead (i.e. flight, fire breath, etc.)? The whole purpose of Ability Scores is to permit for a bio-essentialist read of the game; A Connecticut Yankee In King Arthur's Court doesn't give the same power fantasy charge if it turns out that everything depends on your experience of being a knight hunting for the Grail. Strip the second-order work and just make the math a single step.
|
|
#
?
Jun 26, 2020 21:05
|
|
|
King of Solomon posted:Setting aside DTAS for a second, why not just associate ability score bonuses with class and give races features instead (i.e. flight, fire breath, etc.)? Because that would take actual design work something that is rare in D&D.
|
|
#
?
Jun 26, 2020 21:27
|
|
|
|
| # ? May 26, 2024 21:56 |
|
|
5e is the regressive version that brings back most of the lovely things from previous editions because "that's what D&D is."
|
|
#
?
Jun 26, 2020 21:30
|
|