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Even on the highest difficulty setting Deus Ex is not a very difficult game and by the time you start really getting augs you've made it past the hardest part, there's really no need to burden a new player with min-maxing or convincing them that they need to play it The Right Way when so much of the strength of the game is how viable all the different approaches are. I'd totally recommend using Biomod just for the ease of use of having augs be passive or automatically activated when needed, having to babysit the entire row of F keys in every encounter was annoying 15 years ago and there's a reason every DX game since uses a more Biomod-ish system.
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Jun 23, 2020 15:31
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The last two games had a dog poo poo, unfun bio energy system so maybe you can rephrase what you’re trying to say. They’re really bad and don’t reflect any understanding of what makes for fun gameplay, nor are they a challenge for players to overcome.
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Jun 23, 2020 15:36
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MrL_JaKiri posted:Not regen, which makes you functionally invincible? Especially if you're not playing on Realistic, which most first time players won't be. Well as you put it that way, Yes. However speed allows you to reach everywhere all the time, goompastomp the chick boss in Hong Kong, and outrun missiles. Invulnerability to most damage can be achieved with ballistics protection 2 enviro training and body armor combined (think it caps at like 93%)
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Jun 23, 2020 15:58
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I know I'm opening up a can of worms here but... Which ending is best and why is it New Dark Age? "Compassionate conspiracy" gently caress off Everett, you're part of this whole god drat problem. "Benevolent dictator" there's no such thing, sorry Helios. Your voice is cool though.
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Jun 23, 2020 16:00
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Having seen What kind of casualties covid causes whenever it even locally overruns healthcare capacity, I have to beg to differ.
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Jun 23, 2020 16:02
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I hadn't thought of that. 
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Jun 23, 2020 16:12
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El_Elegante posted:The last two games had a dog poo poo, unfun bio energy system so maybe you can rephrase what you’re trying to say. They’re really bad and don’t reflect any understanding of what makes for fun gameplay, nor are they a challenge for players to overcome. Huh? They regenerate your energy up to a certain point and there's tons of items to fill your energy back up. Heck in Mankind Divided you can craft Biocells if you need to top up your energy and there's plenty of scrap to do so and an Aug that let's you dismantle unwanted weapons into scrap. I never understood the complaints of the energy system in Human Revolution and Mankind Divided. Its always about how it doesn't regenerate enough while completely forgetting you're swimming in items to recharge energy. The only reason I can think of it being an issue is Elixir Syndrome, which people horde items because they might need it later and make the game harder for themselves, only to beat the game without using it.
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Jun 23, 2020 16:15
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Al Cu Ad Solte posted:I know I'm opening up a can of worms here but... "If we burn everything down I'm sure wars and oppression will magically stop happening because these things are the fault of The Internet" - Tracer Tong, Dunning-Krueger personified.
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Jun 23, 2020 16:19
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Angry_Ed posted:"If we burn everything down I'm sure wars and oppression will magically stop happening because these things are the fault of The Internet" - Tracer Tong, Dunning-Krueger personified. Maybe catching the Grey Death fried a few brain cells v  vYeah I'm definitely thinking of the Dark Age ending in terms of how dramatic it is, rather than the implications. Maybe I caught Grey Death and lost a few brain cells too. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=PiOiNgldWmI Also the soundtrack remix that just got released isn't very good.  The original soundtrack continues to be perfect.
Al Cu Ad Solte fucked around with this message at 16:39 on Jun 23, 2020 |
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Jun 23, 2020 16:25
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Valtonen posted:Having seen What kind of casualties covid causes whenever it even locally overruns healthcare capacity, I have to beg to differ.
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Jun 23, 2020 16:39
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Al Cu Ad Solte posted:I know I'm opening up a can of worms here but... Invisible War canon, where all of them happened at the same time
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Jun 23, 2020 17:02
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Basic Chunnel posted:Invisible War canon, where all of them happened at the same time Yeah as much beef as I have with IW I think they did a good job smooshing the endings together. JC merges with Helios, which causes the Aquinas router to go critical, which kills Page, allowing the Illuminati to take over once again. 
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Jun 23, 2020 17:12
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Al Cu Ad Solte posted:Yeah as much beef as I have with IW I think they did a good job smooshing the endings together. JC merges with Helios, which causes the Aquinas router to go critical, which kills Page, allowing the Illuminati to take over once again. And Chad Dumier decides Capitalism is awesome 
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Jun 23, 2020 17:28
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Angry_Ed posted:And Chad Dumier decides Capitalism is awesome the only thing that can stop a Bad Capitalist is a Good Capitalist.
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Jun 23, 2020 17:41
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Mr. Fortitude posted:Huh? I'm assuming it's like the people who hack every single terminal in the game for experience points and then complain about how tedious having to hack everything is because their brains force them to play "optimally" rather than in a way that is actually fun. Just constantly twiddling your thumbs letting that power cell refill on its own so you don't have to use one of the seventeen energy bars in your inventory and then complaining that it's not fun. Al Cu Ad Solte posted:I know I'm opening up a can of worms here but... The entire transhumanism thesis of Deus Ex is that human beings are fundamentally flawed and that no matter how you try to check and balance that with different forms of government and structures of power the fact that it is bring run by humans means that eventually it will be corrupted and fall. Neither of the other two endings offer any kind of answer to this, they only roll the clock back to before the current catastrophic moment but once the dust settles humanity is going to go right back on its slow march to self-annihilation. The Transcendence ending is the only shot at escaping this cycle, and if JC doesn't take advantage of it now then we know the next Bob Page to come along will even if it takes centuries thanks to Tracer Tong sending humanity back to the dark ages. And for all of Invisible War's flaws one thing I really like is how it elaborated on Helios' plan by showing it wouldn't be a dictatorship but a perfect democracy where everyone's needs are instantly recognized and met thanks to post-humanity being telepathically connected. Valtonen posted:Having seen What kind of casualties covid causes whenever it even locally overruns healthcare capacity, I have to beg to differ. Forget Covid, what happens when destroying all the digital technology on earth means all the bunkers housing Captain Tripps and all the other world-ending biological weapons are opened up? The original game at least left it ambiguous but Invisible War actively pointed out was that Tong's plan doesn't work because collapsing the network also caused a bunch of catastrophic weaponry and technology to be let loose and run rampant on the incapacitated planet. Nanite storms that consume entire countires, greasels running wild and preying on people in cities, the Omar, all of these are directly caused by the shutdown and left humanity even more desperate and beleaguered. It also led to the Templars rising up as part of the anti-technology fanatacism the collapse caused, rather than bringing humanity together it made us further divide and subjugate ourselves.
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Jun 23, 2020 17:42
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Helios is definitely the most optimistic and only sensible ending. Society achieves instant and true democratization, and the introduction of the human element means that there can be a balance of compassion and logic in the decision making. Humanity now has a god that will hear and answer it's collective internet prayers, benevolently. Dark Age will likely leave JC and Paul dead without ways to recharge and maintain their augs, to say nothing of the millions of people who rely on machines and modern technology in one way or another to stay alive. (Hope we made enough Ambrosia before the UCs went down!) Plus it's just kicking the can down the road, it's not like people will stop building technology or desiring power. Illuminati is only semi optimistic if you assume JC will be able to out maneuver Everett. Considering his manipulation of DeBeers and the fact that he's not being 100% transparent with you at any point basically guarantees he will try to push JC out of the Illuminati one way another. In either scenario, people are still being ruled and controlled from the shadows.
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Jun 23, 2020 17:44
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Sleeveless posted:The entire transhumanism thesis of Deus Ex is that human beings are fundamentally flawed and that no matter how you try to check and balance that with different forms of government and structures of power the fact that it is bring run by humans means that eventually it will be corrupted and fall. Neither of the other two endings offer any kind of answer to this, they only roll the clock back to before the current catastrophic moment but once the dust settles humanity is going to go right back on its slow march to self-annihilation. Well now I'm feeling like even more of an idiot because I completely forgot that JC all but spells this exact thing out once you meet him in Invisible War. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xBeoreJr4Yc This is one of my biggest issues with the Eidos Montreal sequels, is that they never seemed to use the plot and setting to explore any interesting concepts beyond surface level, or at least that's how it seemed. Al Cu Ad Solte fucked around with this message at 17:53 on Jun 23, 2020 |
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Jun 23, 2020 17:50
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it's been a few years since I've played - were the illuminati actually supposed to be an ancient conspiracy that's been guiding/ruling humanity since god knows when, or were they simply a bunch of billionaires that pooled their resources to extract more wealth from the poors and keep the masses from rebelling with a "secret fraternity" marketing gimmick?
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Jun 23, 2020 19:10
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double nine posted:it's been a few years since I've played - were the illuminati actually supposed to be an ancient conspiracy that's been guiding/ruling humanity since god knows when, or were they simply a bunch of billionaires that pooled their resources to extract more wealth from the poors and keep the masses from rebelling with a "secret fraternity" marketing gimmick? More the latter. It's heavily implied the Illuminati existed since Adam Weishaupt founded it in 1776 (this part is actual history), but nothing about it being some conspiracy from the beginning of time or anything.
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Jun 23, 2020 19:24
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Grand Fromage posted:More the latter. It's heavily implied the Illuminati existed since Adam Weishaupt founded it in 1776 (this part is actual history), but nothing about it being some conspiracy from the beginning of time or anything. I think that’s more the line the newer games take (Adam reacts incredulously about a conspiracy and sarcastically calls them the Illuminati), but the original definitely makes a connection between the Templars and the Illuminati. It’s left ambivalent, because all of these dopey fraternal orgs claim ancient lineages.
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Jun 23, 2020 19:46
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The grey death had 1723 built on Its composition- the birth year of Adam weishaupt. This comes in as a transmission from Tong, and is one of the first lines about illuminati in the game- I think you hear it after you break the UC in Hong Kong.
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Jun 23, 2020 19:54
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I have a deeper cut question: is the GEP gun a rocket launcher or recoiless rifle?
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Jun 24, 2020 02:36
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It's a lockpick
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Jun 24, 2020 03:21
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Ugh suddenly I remember how annoying it was in MD to have to spend bioenergy to do a stealth takedown.
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Jun 24, 2020 07:57
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Gaius Marius posted:It's a lockpick  brap posted:Ugh suddenly I remember how annoying it was in MD to have to spend bioenergy to do a stealth takedown. Ye HR and MD are chock full of supremely stupid design decisions...Like tying XP to everything instead of just exploration and mission objectives so the player feels inclined to do everything to maximize the amount of praxis points otherwise it feels like missing out.
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Jun 24, 2020 11:36
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Gaius Marius posted:It's a lockpick You misspelled ”swiss Army knife”
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Jun 24, 2020 13:05
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brap posted:Ugh suddenly I remember how annoying it was in MD to have to spend bioenergy to do a stealth takedown. It's a one hit kill button, gotta balance it out somehow
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Jun 24, 2020 13:54
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There’s more than enough XP to go around in HR and MD. If the player needs to maximize his XP output then that’s on him. But you could also play the game in a way that you enjoy and you’re not going to have a gimped character.
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Jun 24, 2020 14:12
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Al Cu Ad Solte posted:
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Jun 24, 2020 16:33
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I only feel like I had to do the hacking minigame every time because I really like it a lot and did it even when I already had the passwords. They need to release a mobile app of that game, dammit. Also the takedowns costing energy was not the problem, the problem was that the silent takedown and noisy one should have been switched. I guess the game assumes that if you're killing people, you're not being stealthy, but that wasn't really a good design choice.
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Jun 25, 2020 01:04
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Big Bizness posted:Helios is definitely the most optimistic and only sensible ending. Society achieves instant and true democratization, and the introduction of the human element means that there can be a balance of compassion and logic in the decision making. Humanity now has a god that will hear and answer it's collective internet prayers, benevolently.
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Jun 25, 2020 06:22
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Seeing as folks like OMG JC A BOMB! have autobanned themselves out already I just want to say I've really enjoyed this thread with you guys and I'm happy it got such a good run. I wish we'd followed up on Ugly in the Mornings anniversary run, but maybe it's for the best as it would have been completely derailed by all this. Thanks for being the place that made it fun to do a gimmick run and thank you UitM for the avatar I got as a prize. Dunno what else to say other than I've very much enjoyed discussing this game with you people and this thread has produced good things. I'm sad I may never again get to follow a new goon doing their first time playthrough.
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Jun 25, 2020 14:43
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jojoinnit posted:Seeing as folks like OMG JC A BOMB! have autobanned themselves out already I just want to say I've really enjoyed this thread with you guys and I'm happy it got such a good run. Looks like the forums are gonna live. If anyone still wants to do a passaround playthrough, let me know. Also glad you did the run and glad I bought you the JC Tenton av, every time I saw you post I chuckled about that drat challenge run.
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Jun 26, 2020 05:26
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Ugly In The Morning posted:Looks like the forums are gonna live. If anyone still wants to do a passaround playthrough, let me know. Wish I could read the JC Tenton thread again
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Jun 26, 2020 05:28
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Autobans are getting rescinded for free, afaik
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Jun 26, 2020 08:21
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Still playing through the PS2 port and it makes for quite a different experience. Unfortunately the frame rate tanks with even mild action going on, but the game has a very generous aim assist system. So it’s much easier to simply charge up to enemies and shoot them in the face with an assault shotgun at zero range. The simplified inventory makes it much easier to choose the GEP gun at the start and lug it around the entire game for when you need a quick and silent takedown. Broke out of the MJ12 facility last night guns blazing, it was fun. 
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Jun 28, 2020 07:28
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Finding the MJ12 base in Hell's Kitchen just by going "hmm I wonder why I can click on this manhole" was one of gaming's all-time  moments.
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Jun 30, 2020 04:41
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Al Cu Ad Solte posted:Well now I'm feeling like even more of an idiot because I completely forgot that JC all but spells this exact thing out once you meet him in Invisible War. The Deus Ex prequels basically have nothing to say other than "bio-modification will be disruptive." They're nonsensical as prequels for lots of reasons but they didn't seem very interested in trying to make educated guesses at where society was headed. The only one I remember from Human Revolution was "Canadian 'snowbacks' will flood into America due to climate change and a bad labor market up north." So...yeah  I think they're good approximations of Deus Ex gameplay and I like the neo-Renaissance aesthetic but otherwise they're not worth your time as Deus Ex games.
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Jun 30, 2020 05:05
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Adam Jensen got ninja blades that shot out of his arms without even asking. Gunther Hermann had to navigate multiple levels of UNATCO bureaucracy and still didn’t even get a simple skull gun. E: If Gunts had a skul-gun, would have he been taken prisoner by the NSF? Also how much does it hurt that the new guy on his literal first day drops a tricked out pistol right outside his cell so that he could pick up a stock 10mm to hand to the experienced guy? Lemon loving lime?!?!? goatsestretchgoals fucked around with this message at 05:24 on Jun 30, 2020 |
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Jun 30, 2020 05:18
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"Not worth your time as Deus Ex games" is a pretty rough thing to say, what else are we gonna play, Invisible War?
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Jun 30, 2020 07:30
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