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feelix posted:what vaccine isn't produced by that set of companies and systems? I think they are more voicing the opinion that they'd feel better about a vaccine that passed regulatory and safety hurdles in countries that didn't have a gutted regulatory system and an incestuous interplay of industry and government in its regulatory agencies. Which doesn't strike me as irrational or anti-vaxx.
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Jun 29, 2020 01:28
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CaptainSarcastic posted:I think they are more voicing the opinion that they'd feel better about a vaccine that passed regulatory and safety hurdles in countries that didn't have a gutted regulatory system and an incestuous interplay of industry and government in its regulatory agencies. Which doesn't strike me as irrational or anti-vaxx. Nailed it.
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Jun 29, 2020 01:35
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CaptainSarcastic posted:I think they are more voicing the opinion that they'd feel better about a vaccine that passed regulatory and safety hurdles in countries that didn't have a gutted regulatory system and an incestuous interplay of industry and government in its regulatory agencies. Which doesn't strike me as irrational or anti-vaxx. It's this. I despise anti-vaxxers, and as a volunteer in a homeschooling community I encounter far too many of them (thankfully their kids all know it's nonsense, and some of the older ones have actually gotten vaccinations without their parents' knowledge), so I'm really struggling with my sense of unease about a rushed-for-political-purposes COVID-19 vaccine. We've had folks who are in the know posting in these threads about the potential for harm that a botched or deliberately undermined vaccine trial could hold, harm which might not even become evident for years. Will I get a vaccine if it becomes available? gently caress, probably? But I will absolutely be waiting to see if more trustworthy European agencies sign off on it, and even then I'll be tempted to wait for a few months. Help me out with this, goons: if a vaccine becomes available and seems credible (by whatever standard of credible you want to use), are we morally obligated to take it as soon as possible? Or is it sufficient to continue practicing diligent mask-wearing and social distancing for some period while waiting to see how the early adopters fare?
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Jun 29, 2020 02:23
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CaptainSarcastic posted:I think they are more voicing the opinion that they'd feel better about a vaccine that passed regulatory and safety hurdles in countries that didn't have a gutted regulatory system and an incestuous interplay of industry and government in its regulatory agencies. Which doesn't strike me as irrational or anti-vaxx. This is exactly my position as well. I don't have faith that our regulatory bodies won't throw us (or allow us to be thrown) in to the woodchipper to make it look like Something Is Being Done
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Jun 29, 2020 02:25
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Kestral posted:Help me out with this, goons: if a vaccine becomes available and seems credible (by whatever standard of credible you want to use), are we morally obligated to take it as soon as possible? Or is it sufficient to continue practicing diligent mask-wearing and social distancing for some period while waiting to see how the early adopters fare? I think it depends a lot on your situation in life. My parents are retired and taking this extremely seriously. They can wait. I'm "essential" but am not working with the general public or at risk people. I can probably wait? High risk professions it might be better to roll the dice. IDK. This is one of those questions where having actual functional news and government would be awesome. I'll probably wait until I see medical professionals go for it. In an ideal world whatever company invents it should jab the CEO first, then the board of directors, and work their way down.
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Jun 29, 2020 02:48
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spacetoaster posted:Might be the Saharan dust. Probably not in California
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Jun 29, 2020 02:49
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chupacabron posted:This is exactly my position as well. I don't have faith that our regulatory bodies won't throw us (or allow us to be thrown) in to the woodchipper to make it look like Something Is Being Done Ditto. Anti vax is dumb as all hell but maybe Im beong paranoid but I wouldn't put it past the FDA to approve a placebo just so they could get the economy rolling again long enough for a handful of boardrooms full of rich people to pump and dump their stocks before a massive uptick in deaths occurs.
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Jun 29, 2020 02:51
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If a vaccination comes out right around election time no way am I getting right away. Unfortunately I'll probably have to wait a few months into Trump's second term to find out it's either dangerous or completely ineffective but by that point it will have served it's real purpose...
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Jun 29, 2020 02:55
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honda whisperer posted:I think it depends a lot on your situation in life. My parents are retired and taking this extremely seriously. They can wait. Or in other words, the poor people working service jobs will be used as guinea pigs after having been forcibly exposed in the first place by the uncaring rich's ill thought pursuit of wealth*  *will actually make them less wealthy than if they hadn't been sociopaths and actually taken care of their workers across the board.
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Jun 29, 2020 03:00
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EvilJoven posted:Ditto. Anti vax is dumb as all hell but maybe Im beong paranoid but I wouldn't put it past the FDA to approve a placebo just so they could get the economy rolling again long enough for a handful of boardrooms full of rich people to pump and dump their stocks before a massive uptick in deaths occurs. You are talking about the same FDA that revoked the emergency authorization to use chloroquine for Covid, despite Trump's pumping of it, yeah? I mean, I'm not saying blind trust in the government is the way to go here, but it's not as simple as saying that anything from DC is automatically malicious.
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Jun 29, 2020 03:17
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Uncle Lloyd posted:You are talking about the same FDA that revoked the emergency authorization to use chloroquine for Covid, despite Trump's pumping of it, yeah? I mean, I'm not saying blind trust in the government is the way to go here, but it's not as simple as saying that anything from DC is automatically malicious. You think this means they're automatically immune to any further political pressure from a government that doesn't give a poo poo about lives to begin with?
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Jun 29, 2020 03:21
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https://twitter.com/DrEricDing/status/1277329605116952577
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Jun 29, 2020 03:21
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Uncle Lloyd posted:You are talking about the same FDA that revoked the emergency authorization to use chloroquine for Covid, despite Trump's pumping of it, yeah? I mean, I'm not saying blind trust in the government is the way to go here, but it's not as simple as saying that anything from DC is automatically malicious. Which is also the same FDA that initially gave it that groundless authorization because he was pimping it. And the premature authorization of a substance that could be harmful is exactly what people are worried about.
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Jun 29, 2020 03:24
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Hell yeah
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Jun 29, 2020 03:41
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Uncle Lloyd posted:You are talking about the same FDA that revoked the emergency authorization to use chloroquine for Covid, despite Trump's pumping of it, yeah? I mean, I'm not saying blind trust in the government is the way to go here, but it's not as simple as saying that anything from DC is automatically malicious. A lot of people died specifically and solely because the FDA gave that authorization in the first place despite nobody recommending it outside of Wuhan and some French quack.
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Jun 29, 2020 03:45
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The Glumslinger posted:Probably not in California Probably. Good luck.
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Jun 29, 2020 04:14
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greazeball posted:the virgin COVID vs the ChAdOx1
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Jun 29, 2020 05:06
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Tombstone reads: “Covid is just a flu you snowflakes” Now 25% off when you buy 2 or more. Get them before they’re gone.
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Jun 29, 2020 05:20
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CaptainSarcastic posted:I think they are more voicing the opinion that they'd feel better about a vaccine that passed regulatory and safety hurdles in countries that didn't have a gutted regulatory system and an incestuous interplay of industry and government in its regulatory agencies. Which doesn't strike me as irrational or anti-vaxx. Yup. At this point my doom and gloom prediction is Trump rolls the dice on the most promising candidate so that he can get a vaccine out by November. The consequences can be dealt with later.
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Jun 29, 2020 05:23
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What are you goons worried about with the vaccines? There will be adverse effects that aren’t found in clinical trials. For any new drug/vaccine, there are always adverse drug reactions that are found when the masses are exposed to it compared to the thousands that get it in trials. I studied molecular biology, am a registered nurse and I have worked on vaccine trials in the past. I am currently working as a monitor on one of the more prominent vaccine candidate company’s other vaccine trials.. When the trial results are published by the drug company, they - not the FDA - will report all adverse drug reactions that have happened during the study. When it is approved, the drug company. - again, not the FDA - will report the cumulative adverse drug reactions for all of the clinical trials. This is compiled into the prescribing information. The FDA regulates the process and puts the final stamp on the process, but the drug company is the one that reports any issues. After having worked on multiple vaccine trials in the past, I know how the system works and I wouldn’t hesitate to have one of the first vaccines once I read the results for myself. However, I would want to see that info for myself because I wouldn’t trust the current government to give me the correct info.
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Jun 29, 2020 05:39
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Watch people not get the vaccine because ‘it’s just the flu’ or ‘only cowards get it’ or ‘it’s 5G nanomachines’.
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Jun 29, 2020 05:45
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Cacafuego posted:After having worked on multiple vaccine trials in the past, I know how the system works and I wouldn’t hesitate to have one of the first vaccines once I read the results for myself. However, I would want to see that info for myself because I wouldn’t trust the current government to give me the correct info. Just be sure to give us a heads up when Trump green lights your vaccine but forces the company to leave off the "Will poo poo blood for the rest of their lives" bit.
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Jun 29, 2020 05:56
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Cacafuego posted:What are you goons worried about with the vaccines? There will be adverse effects that aren’t found in clinical trials. For any new drug/vaccine, there are always adverse drug reactions that are found when the masses are exposed to it compared to the thousands that get it in trials. Yeah, and there will likely be a lot more of those unknown side effects not caught in trials from one shoved out the door at warp speed. The theoretical vaccine in question is coming out way too fast for comprehensive trials to have occurred.
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Jun 29, 2020 06:01
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Philthy posted:Just be sure to give us a heads up when Trump green lights your vaccine but forces the company to leave off the "Will poo poo blood for the rest of their lives" bit. Yeah. Blink out a message of distress like the Pueblo sailors did.
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Jun 29, 2020 06:09
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Oh yes, the FDA, very trustworthy. Flawed COVID-19 antibody tests shipped without FDA review CBS News posted:In March, many communities were competing against each other, and the federal government, to find COVID tests. The Trump administration was under fire. Just an excerpt, it's a long article.
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Jun 29, 2020 06:43
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Idk what you goons are worried about: the company that stands to profit from getting their stuff to market has to report any issues with the drug tthat will be approved later by a regulatory authority that's suceptible to political pressure from an administration that despises human life. And all of it will be rushed as hell.
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Jun 29, 2020 07:33
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Cacafuego posted:What are you goons worried about with the vaccines? You have the knowledge to read and understand that. Most of us don't.
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Jun 29, 2020 12:23
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If your chances of dying from a vaccine are less than about .5%, you're better off with the vaccine than covid. This is assuming the actual infection rate is 10x the confirmed rate.
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Jun 29, 2020 12:34
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Feels like America is failing at this. Just join our tactic here in Sweden the tactic of "no one ever wears masks lets just ride this out and let all our old people die"
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Jun 29, 2020 12:42
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Next goons will be saying the new corona vaccine causes autism.
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Jun 29, 2020 13:13
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Cacafuego posted:What are you goons worried about with the vaccines? There will be adverse effects that aren’t found in clinical trials. For any new drug/vaccine, there are always adverse drug reactions that are found when the masses are exposed to it compared to the thousands that get it in trials. I guess then you were one of those people that thought it was a good idea that the USDA stopped inspections of pork processing plants and let the owners just certify themselves?
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Jun 29, 2020 13:21
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Cacafuego posted:What are you goons worried about with the vaccines? There will be adverse effects that aren’t found in clinical trials. For any new drug/vaccine, there are always adverse drug reactions that are found when the masses are exposed to it compared to the thousands that get it in trials. I also work for one of the companies with a vaccine candidate, and once the EMA approves it, I wouldn't hesitate. FDA is compromised.
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Jun 29, 2020 13:50
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central dogma posted:Next goons will be saying the new corona vaccine causes autism.
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Jun 29, 2020 13:52
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I went to a family wedding yesterday. My plan was to just attend the ceremony and leave before the reception. I only attended because it was outdoors, so I was able to wear a mask and stand away from everyone. Then it started raining and everyone ran inside a small building to finish the ceremony. So I immediately got in my car and left. No way I'm going into an enclosed space with 125+ people. All those people continued to stay inside for about 5 hours for the reception. So if you hear about a huge spike in upstate SC from a wedding, that's what happened.
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Jun 29, 2020 14:14
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Zzulu posted:Feels like America is failing at this. Just join our tactic here in Sweden You're not being very stealthy, Mr. Paul
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Jun 29, 2020 14:17
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Uncle Lloyd posted:You are talking about the same FDA that revoked the emergency authorization to use chloroquine for Covid, despite Trump's pumping of it, yeah? I mean, I'm not saying blind trust in the government is the way to go here, but it's not as simple as saying that anything from DC is automatically malicious. I’m talking about the same FDA that gave the emergency authorization to use chloroquine for Covid because of Trump's pumping of it
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Jun 29, 2020 14:18
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bird with big dick posted:I’m talking about the same FDA that gave the emergency authorization to use chloroquine for Covid because of Trump's pumping of it The EMA approved chloroquine for emergency use in critical patients. This was similar to FDA's recommendations, although physicians were given more leeway to decide.
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Jun 29, 2020 14:32
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There will not be a tested and certified vaccine released in the next 4 months. Take that as you may. I don't think it's possible to understate how dangerous an untested preliminary vaccine could be, or how strongly medical professionals would object to it being tested on the public.
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Jun 29, 2020 14:34
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I guess I’m confusing the uncertainties about the vaccine, because I know the process and I wouldn’t be concerned about taking a drug or vaccine that is FDA approved, even if it is fast tracked. I have no worry about the trials themselves and the marketing approval, even if it is the FDA (which is bad). However, since they’re trying to ramp up production to billions of doses, that may create issues with the vials/packaging/diluent/adjuvant/etc. That’s a legitimate concern. honda whisperer posted:You have the knowledge to read and understand that. Most of us don't. Understood. If you can’t understand it, look to your medical professionals to give you that info, but do not look to politicians. Nobody should be getting medical advice from politicians. Your local docs or even Fauci if you want a national source. I don’t listen to government sources for anything, but I trust his info. Also, if you’re really worried, stay socially distant and wait a few weeks before getting it and see what happens. Most adverse reactions will show within a few weeks. If you’re worried about something that would happen long term, you’d have to wait for years. AreWeDrunkYet posted:I guess then you were one of those people that thought it was a good idea that the USDA stopped inspections of pork processing plants and let the owners just certify themselves? Nope. USDA bad, FDA bad. I never said they were good or reliable, but the FDA isn’t making the vaccine. compshateme85 posted:I also work for one of the companies with a vaccine candidate, and once the EMA approves it, I wouldn't hesitate. FDA is compromised. Do you think the drug companies, or your employer in particular, would try to gain marketing approval by slipping known adverse drug reactions past the regulatory agencies? I don’t think that would happen, but if you do why would you take any drug, ever? Do you think that they would prepare a marketing approval application to the FDA that didn’t include something that they informed the EMA about?
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Jun 29, 2020 14:40
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Blitter posted:There will not be a tested and certified vaccine released in the next 4 months. Republicans in October: "In the past, some people didn't trust medical professionals about the dangers of COVID-19. We have always listened to our team of medical experts* and they are now recommending that everyone** take this vaccine so we can beat this virus by November!" *not clinicians, not researchers, but, you know, experts **not us though
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Jun 29, 2020 14:45
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