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Julio Cruz posted:just to be sure...you mean this July and August? I can only speak for the Netherlands because I'm there, but our whole coast is beach and on many of them you can find plenty of empty areas during these times, even with lots of people off from work obligations. Just don't be near the city but go north of like Alkmaar or south of Rotterdam. Pick one that is near only a single small town (i.e. Rockanje, Julianadorp) or that is not easily accessible by car. Though while we are having pretty much the hottest year on record so far, the weather is always unpredictable here so actual beach weather is not guaranteed even in July/August. We've been having a lot of it recently though. We don't have tide pools or rocks or whales though, only sand, dams, dunes, giant jellyfish and perhaps a seal if you are lucky. Entropist fucked around with this message at 02:33 on Jun 28, 2020 |
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Jun 28, 2020 02:27
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FWIW the Dutch government has said people can travel to the rest of the EU again as long as the countries you want to travel to allow it, which might change at any point if there's another outbreak. European countries are quite anxious to get tourism going again, at least within the EU. But do look up information from official sources before you go. Countries are discriminating who comes in based on the nationality of the traveler and whether the country you're going to considers the country of the traveler to have things under control well enough. If you're not in Europe already don't even bother trying, you'll probably not be allowed in at all.
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Jun 28, 2020 07:20
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Carbon dioxide posted:If you're not in Europe already don't even bother trying, you'll probably not be allowed in at all. Depends -- we'll find out next week as they (at least originally) said they'd make an announcement on July 1st. Disaster zones like the US and all of Latin America will all but certainly remain banned, but countries with their poo poo under control like Oceania / East Asia will likely be allowed in, and possibly also countries with their poo poo partly under control, like Canada. Who knows for Turkey and Israel and other countries that have done a mediocre job at getting it under control. I certainly wouldn't plan a holiday to Turkey this summer. People with EU/Schengen passports also have no trouble getting in currently, and there is no mandatory quarantine at present for most countries even for arrivals from virus hotspots -- although I would be unsurprised if they implement quarantine for people coming from the USA soon regardless of citizenship. In any case intercontinental tourism makes no sense to plan right now, and if you are someone with dual citizenship and are planning on visiting family on one side or the other, you probably already know these rules. It seems like staying within Europe should be pretty OK this summer, just don't buy your tickets or do anything non-refundable until a week or two before you want to leave, IMO. E: In unrelated news, I think I can count on one hand the number of masks I have seen in Switzerland worn by people not working at nursing homes, even on packed public transport. It is a mystery how "let's ignore it and maybe it will go away" worked here. I guess that also worked for both WW1 and WW2. Saladman fucked around with this message at 09:14 on Jun 28, 2020 |
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Jun 28, 2020 09:09
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Just stay within the country you're in and don't make plans across borders. It's not exactly long ago that borders were closed to everything except commercial traffic, and there's a good chance it'll happen again. Moreover, if you're looking for beaches, you don't need to go far from home, if you're in München. There's some beaches along the Isar, and the lakes in the area.
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Jun 28, 2020 14:37
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Saladman posted:E: In unrelated news, I think I can count on one hand the number of masks I have seen in Switzerland worn by people not working at nursing homes, even on packed public transport. It is a mystery how "let's ignore it and maybe it will go away" worked here. I guess that also worked for both WW1 and WW2. The thing is that masks have barely any noticeable effect on reducing corona infections *if* people follow the more important rules, such as social distancing and staying home if you don't need to go out for work/buying groceries. In the Netherlands, where Corona is well under control, at least for now, masks are only required in public transport and the reason for that is that it's very hard to enforce social distancing on board trains, so they're going for a 2nd best option. Other than for healthcare personnel, masks are really only useful in places where the other rules don't work.
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Jun 28, 2020 17:08
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Carbon dioxide posted:The thing is that masks have barely any noticeable effect on reducing corona infections *if* people follow the more important rules, such as social distancing and staying home if you don't need to go out for work/buying groceries. Anecdotally, people here have largely stopped paying attention to social distancing stuff too. Three weeks ago, people seemed to be generally aware of personal space in the supermarket/wherever. I also feel like I saw maybe 5-10% of people wearing masks in shops and probably 50% on the bus or train. On Monday, the staff in Decathlon were still wearing masks, but that's the last time I saw emplyees wearing them except for ticket inspectors on the train. I'm now often the only one wearing a mask anywhere outside of public transport and it's down to maybe 20% of people I see on the train and lower on the bus (where you actually stand closer). We also had an anti-lockdown protest in Bern yesterday which caused countless injuries from people rolling their eyes too hard.
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Jun 28, 2020 19:17
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Saladman posted:People with EU/Schengen passports also have no trouble getting in currently, and there is no mandatory quarantine at present for most countries even for arrivals from virus hotspots -- although I would be unsurprised if they implement quarantine for people coming from the USA soon regardless of citizenship. Croatia at the moment requires 14 day quarantine for arrivals from Serbia and Bosnia, regardless of what passport you hold. That's just the detail I know about, there's more of it in this part of Europe.
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Jun 28, 2020 20:47
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greazeball posted:Anecdotally, people here have largely stopped paying attention to social distancing stuff too. Three weeks ago, people seemed to be generally aware of personal space in the supermarket/wherever. I also feel like I saw maybe 5-10% of people wearing masks in shops and probably 50% on the bus or train. On Monday, the staff in Decathlon were still wearing masks, but that's the last time I saw emplyees wearing them except for ticket inspectors on the train. I'm now often the only one wearing a mask anywhere outside of public transport and it's down to maybe 20% of people I see on the train and lower on the bus (where you actually stand closer). We also had an anti-lockdown protest in Bern yesterday which caused countless injuries from people rolling their eyes too hard. here in the UK the government's been talking about how they want to relax and end the lockdown for weeks with the completely predictable result that the moment it got hot all the beaches were absolutely packed we're gonna get a second wave on a par with Florida in a few weeks
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Jun 28, 2020 20:55
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Julio Cruz posted:here in the UK the government's been talking about how they want to relax and end the lockdown for weeks with the completely predictable result that the moment it got hot all the beaches were absolutely packed Okay I've been to the UK in summer and it doesn't get hot over there. It gets slightly less cold.
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Jun 30, 2020 07:17
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Siegkrow posted:Okay I've been to the UK in summer and it doesn't get hot over there. It gets slightly less cold. Funny joke from the 50s
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Jun 30, 2020 07:20
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I wish I was joking. I was in Spain for summer with my dad, and he tookme and my sisters to meet his wife's family in spain, cornwall. It was cold and cloudy and it rained way too often and I ended up with a bad flu because I didn't take any warm clothes, thinking it would be at least half as warm as sweltering spain.
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Jun 30, 2020 07:51
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cool story but last week it was consistently getting into the 80s do you want to talk about how the food was all bland too, or maybe criticise everyone's teeth Julio Cruz fucked around with this message at 11:35 on Jun 30, 2020 |
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Jun 30, 2020 11:33
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Julio Cruz posted:cool story but last week it was consistently getting into the 80s alcoholism!! flat beers!! hahahaha
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Jun 30, 2020 12:01
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Can we also take a moment to appreciate someone getting the flu from cold weather, which, lol
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Jun 30, 2020 12:04
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Julio Cruz posted:cool story but last week it was consistently getting into the 80s The food was okay. Pretty good actually. And there were no problems with people's teeth. What you talking about?
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Jun 30, 2020 15:03
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I'm pointing out that this is a thread for actual travel information and not lazy jokes about stereotypes.
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Jun 30, 2020 17:30
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Work is sending me to Amsterdam in 2 weeks, which is usually an opportunity for me to do some sightseeing after workhours. Is there anything tourism related open despite Covid-19, or would it be better to head home straight away?
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Jul 1, 2020 16:36
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Chikimiki posted:Work is sending me to Amsterdam in 2 weeks, which is usually an opportunity for me to do some sightseeing after workhours. Is there anything tourism related open despite Covid-19, or would it be better to head home straight away? I think pretty much every tourist site in continental Europe is open now except for those that are very high density (water parks) or require confined spaces (top of Eiffel tower). Even regular pools and such are open. AFAIK the UK is the only place in the EU that has significant closures still, but I might be wrong as I have no idea about like Bulgaria and Croatia. In any case, for you, Benelux is all open.
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Jul 1, 2020 16:53
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This is the absolute best time of the decade to visit Amsterdam.
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Jul 1, 2020 17:14
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Jeoh posted:This is the absolute best time of the decade to visit Amsterdam. Jesus Christ, we're only 6 months into this decade... does it get worse from here?
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Jul 1, 2020 17:29
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I mean, the world at large has been on a downward spiral over the last...5? Years? And there aren't many signs it'll get better any time soon.
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Jul 1, 2020 17:41
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greazeball posted:Jesus Christ, we're only 6 months into this decade... does it get worse from here? lmao
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Jul 1, 2020 21:01
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Chikimiki posted:Work is sending me to Amsterdam in 2 weeks, which is usually an opportunity for me to do some sightseeing after workhours. Is there anything tourism related open despite Covid-19, or would it be better to head home straight away? Everything is open and there's zero other tourists so this is the first time in twenty years you can visit basically everything without waiting lines. Just note that many museums and such require you to buy tickets in advance because they need to keep track of how many people are planning to visit per day, because there's a max. number of people per area based on social distancing measures. Also, they won't let you in if you have any symptoms such as coughing or a fever. But in that case you're supposed to self-quarantine anyway.
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Jul 1, 2020 22:23
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Alright, thanks a lot! So basically right now visits yay, stag parties nay? Sounds pretty ok to me 
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Jul 2, 2020 08:02
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Chikimiki posted:Alright, thanks a lot! So basically right now visits yay, stag parties nay? Sounds pretty ok to me Actually, starting July 1st, everything in the Netherlands has reopened except for night clubs. Hell, even the red light district should've reopened by now I think? The main rule for everything is 1.5 m social distancing for people who aren't in the same household. For indoors activities, you most commonly have to book in advance so they can make sure not too many people are indoors at once. For restaurants and such, another rule is "no more than 2 people at a table" but a lot of places kinda work around that if you're with a larger group by just having people sitting at opposite ends of a couple tables moved together. For outdoors activities such as having a drink on a terrace, you can just go there and it's no problem whatsoever. Stag parties are fine as long as they aren't in a night club and if you observe social distancing. It's just that crossing the border to and from certain countries is still difficult. The only other rule btw, is that if and only if social distancing rules are impossible to follow, you go for the second-best option which is wearing a mask. This is only checked in public transport, and they can kick you out or fine you for not wearing a mask in a bus, tram or train. Ferries such as the free ones to Amsterdam Noord in case you need to go there, also require masks.
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Jul 2, 2020 08:24
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Carbon dioxide posted:The thing is that masks have barely any noticeable effect on reducing corona infections *if* people follow the more important rules, such as social distancing and staying home if you don't need to go out for work/buying groceries. The gently caress is this post timetraveling from March? Wear a mask, rear end in a top hat.
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Jul 5, 2020 00:38
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Don't project your own problems onto other countries. People in the Netherlands only wear masks in public transit, and we've been at a stable 50-200 new infections a day for over a month now, and on a continuing downward trend. The amount of people getting hospitalized because of the virus every day can be counted on one hand. loving Idaho has a tenth of the population and population density, yet still manages to do way worse.
Dance Officer fucked around with this message at 08:18 on Jul 5, 2020 |
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Jul 5, 2020 08:08
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Wearing masks is not a 'second best option'. It's far superior to so-called social distancing, which most people have simply ignored.
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Jul 5, 2020 13:11
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Jeoh posted:Wearing masks is not a 'second best option'. It's far superior to so-called social distancing, which most people have simply ignored. https://www.ecdc.europa.eu/en/publications-data/using-face-masks-community-reducing-covid-19-transmission actually, it isn't Dance Officer fucked around with this message at 13:25 on Jul 5, 2020 |
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Jul 5, 2020 13:19
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You're both right: the best way to eliminate transmission is just to never go near other people. But you also can't stay perpetually 2 meters away from people if you have to leave your house and so people need to wear a mask--any kind of mask really--to reduce the chance of spread during those moments where you're waiting to enter a shop or just passing people on the sidewalk. Yes, social distancing alone could eliminate the spread of the virus but that's just not feasible so everyone should wear a drat mask when they go out.
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Jul 5, 2020 13:45
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Fwiw masks are vanishingly rare in Finland at the moment. I just took a two hour train trip, walked through a shopping centre and biked across town to another shopping centre where I got my groceries, and I'm pretty sure I saw two people wearing masks the whole day, and they were in the same group. A month or two ago I saw more of them but at no point were they genuinely common
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Jul 5, 2020 13:59
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greazeball posted:You're both right: the best way to eliminate transmission is just to never go near other people. But you also can't stay perpetually 2 meters away from people if you have to leave your house and so people need to wear a mask--any kind of mask really--to reduce the chance of spread during those moments where you're waiting to enter a shop or just passing people on the sidewalk. Yes, social distancing alone could eliminate the spread of the virus but that's just not feasible so everyone should wear a drat mask when they go out. Actually, no. The efficacy of (non-medical) face masks in limiting community spread is dubious at best. That's what the article I linked gets at, if you'd taken the time to read it.
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Jul 5, 2020 14:12
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Dance Officer posted:Actually, no. The efficacy of (non-medical) face masks in limiting community spread is dubious at best. That's what the article I linked gets at, if you'd taken the time to read it. Did you share the wrong anti-mask conspiracy document? Because that one (and others from the WHO, Johns Hopkins, etc.) says that masks, worn correctly and in conjunction with distancing guidelines, slow the spread of the virus--even non-medical community masks. From your doc: Arguments and evidence against the use of face masks There is only limited indirect evidence that non-medical face masks are effective as a means of source control. That's their (your?) argument against using masks--that we have only so far noticed some kind of possible correlation between mask use and lower virus spread. So I guess doing nothing is the best course of action! Keep up the great work of 50-200 new cases per day I guess?
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Jul 5, 2020 14:40
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Trying to put words into my mouth, cool. but no. What Jeoh said is Jeoh posted:Wearing masks is not a 'second best option'. It's far superior to so-called social distancing, which most people have simply ignored. And what I said is Dance Officer posted:The efficacy of (non-medical) face masks in limiting community spread is dubious at best. And to quote from the article I referred to, for good measure (which is from the european cdc by the way, and references a bunch of research publications): There is conflicting evidence on the protective effect for the wearer of medical face masks for influenza-like illness (ILI) and laboratory-confirmed influenza in household settings [5,15,18,19]. Based on the lack of evidence, it has so far not been recommended that people who are not ill or who are not providing care to a patient should wear a mask to reduce influenza or COVID-19 transmission. However, WHO’s guidance on ‘Nonpharmaceutical public health measures for mitigating the risk and impact of epidemic and pandemic influenza’, conditionally recommends face mask use in the community for asymptomatic individuals in severe epidemics or pandemics in order to reduce transmission in the community; this is based on mechanistic plausibility for the potential effectiveness of this measure [20]. It should be noted that all relevant evidence comes from studies on influenza and other coronaviruses and may not be directly applicable to COVID-19. There is no evidence that non-medical face masks or other face covers are an effective means of respiratory protection for the wearer of the mask. Overall, various non-medical face masks were shown to have very low filter efficiency (2–38%) [21]. In one study, cotton surgical masks were associated with a higher risk of penetration of microorganisms and ILI compared to no masks [5].
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Jul 5, 2020 14:54
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Nothing that you've posted says that mask use is actually bad, but you're only posting against people saying that mask use is good so idk what point you're trying to make. Maintain social distance and wear a mask when you can't (because you can't always be 2m away from people once you go outside). Even if a mask isn't 100% effective (they aren't), they're better than nothing when you are in shared spaces.
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Jul 5, 2020 15:09
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the spirit of fishmech lives on in dance officer, i see
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Jul 5, 2020 15:12
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greazeball posted:Nothing that you've posted says that mask use is actually bad, but you're only posting against people saying that mask use is good so idk what point you're trying to make. I don't recall ever saying that masks are bad, I was saying that (non-medical) masks probably add very limited protection, if any, if we're talking about limiting community spread. But you're clearly arguing in bad faith, so cheers, I'm off.
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Jul 5, 2020 15:50
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I've driven around western/central Europe the past two weeks, and just from my personal observation on what rules I had to follow in what country, there seemed to be almost zero correlation between mask use and outbreak severity. Switzerland and Netherlands? Barely any masks (I guess that will change on Monday in Switzerland, to some extent). Belgium? France? Germany? Luxembourg? Masks everywhere worn by everyone. And yet, Switzerland did just as well as France or Germany or Spain despite it being one of the first to be hit hard and having a much, much weaker lockdown. Belgium did worse than NL despite them wearing masks everywhere and the Dutch barely wearing them at all. Mask use in public (shops) seems to be barely more than a placebo effect, and 100% mask use outdoors in public is purely placebo effect so governments feel like they've done something. Same to masks being required to walk around a restaurant but not to sit and eat there — I'd be surprised if that has an effect size larger than 1%. Mask use in offices is a good idea, although really they should just do WFH and space people out more. Probably a good idea in public transport too, although the only data I ever saw showing that people were getting sick from others in public transport was for like long-distance bus rides in China. E: Like Dance Officer, I'm not anti masks, they can't hurt and they probably do help to some extent. I just think it's naive when I see people post online (not here) that "oh, corona would be over if only people wore masks everywhere". No, they'd still sneeze into their mask, adjust their mask and touch their dirty face at some point, then touch something. If the effect size of wearing a mask was large, you'd see a far larger difference between EU countries between the maskless and the masked. Instead it seems to depend largely on some parameter that has not been particularly-well identified. Saladman fucked around with this message at 13:44 on Jul 9, 2020 |
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Jul 5, 2020 19:14
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Think I decided where to go for beach vacation next month with the family: Naxos. Biggest of the Cyclades, and apparently the only one that's not dry and barren. Most of the western coast is an awesome beach, there are several places that offer wind/kite surfing (including for kids) along said coast, and there are also good options for snorkeling/scuba, mountain biking, and hiking on the island. Doesn't have a major airport, but I found cheap flights to Santorini, and then you just take a two hour ferry from there, so I get to see the inspiration for Ilios, one of my favorite maps, along the way. Hotel and car rental prices both look very reasonable, too.
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Jul 11, 2020 22:51
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you couldn't pay me enough to step on a plane right now
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Jul 11, 2020 23:28
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