|
Yeah, even the abolitionists didn't generally think that Black folks were, like, equal. Just that enslaving lesser-humans is unjust.
|
#
?
Jun 26, 2020 19:21
|
|
|
|
| # ? Jun 2, 2024 13:52 |
|
|
quote:If ever you have to run slaves—which seems unlikely nowadays, although you never can tell what may happen if we have the Liberals back—the way to do it is by steamboat. The Sultana, bound for Cincinnati by way of Baton Rouge, Vicksburg, Memphis and Cairo, beat the old Balliol College all to nothing. It was like cruising upriver in a fine hotel, with the n(...)s out of sight, mind and smell, no pitching or rolling to disturb the stomach, and above all, no John Charity Spring. Crixus and his assistants arrange every little bit of the trip for Flashman, including a coffle of six “slaves” – five free black Underground Railroad agents, plus Randolph, as well as tickets in the name of James K. Prescott. Flashman gets aboard the riverboat with no problems, with both slaves and luggage stored belowdecks. quote:The Sultana was a big fast boat, and held the New Orleans-Louisville record of five and a half days; she had three decks from the texas to the water-line, with the boiler deck in the middle. This was where the main saloon and state-rooms were, all crystal chandeliers and gilding and plush, with carved furniture and fine carpets; my own cabin had an oil painting on the door, and there were huge pictures in the main rooms. All very fine, in a vulgar way, and the passengers matched it; you may have heard a great deal about Southern charm and grace, and there’s something in it where Virginia and Kentucky are concerned—Robert Lee, for instance, was as genteel an old prig as you’d meet on Pall Mall—but it don’t hold for the Mississippi valley. There they were rotten with cotton money in those days, with gold watch-chains and walking-sticks, loud raucous laughter, and manners that would have disgraced a sty. They spat their “terbacker” juice on the carpets, gorged noisily in the dining saloon—the sight of jellied quail being shovelled down with a spoon and two fingers, and falling on a shirt-front with a diamond the size of a shilling in it, is a sight that dwells with me still, and I ain’t fastidious as a rule. They hawked and belched and picked their teeth and swilled great quantities of brandy and punch, and roared to each other in their hideous plantation voices. Flashman makes sure to check on his “cargo” on the first evening, taking altogether too much pleasure in Randolph's situation: quote:A slave’s life didn’t suit him one little bit; he had taken his place in the coffle that afternoon with a very ill grace, and much self-pitying nobility for Crixus’s benefit. When he and his fellows were herded off to their passage quarters he had still been damned peaked and sulky, and now he was sitting with a bowl of hash from the communal copper, sniffing at it with disgust. After Flashman enjoys his dinner (and a girl he picks up in the process), he's interrupted in his stateroom by the message that one of his “slaves” is causing trouble, and guess who: quote:The overseer was swearing and stamping over in the corner where my slaves were, with Randolph standing in front of him looking as arrogant as Caesar. Flashman tries to “play the just master – kindly but firm” and tells Randolph to knock it off, and Randolph reluctantly sits down again. The overseer advises “Mist' Prescott” to take a harder line, and that mixed-race slaves like Randolph often start to believe they're as good as whites. After he leaves, Randolph complains to Flashman: quote:He glared up at me. “We are entitled to straw to lie on—why did you not insist that he provides it? Isn’t it enough that I am chained up like a beast in this verminous place, fed on nauseating slops? Aren’t you meant to protect me—you, who neglect me to the mercies of that uncouth white scum?” Flashy is appalled by Randolph's inability and/or unwillingness to play the role of a slave for even a few days, and points out that if he'd taken Randolph's side against a white man, it would be “the talk of the boat in five minutes.” Which is fair enough, but Flashy has to be a dick about it, especially after Randolph mocks him for “gorging with white-trash sluts” instead of focusing on his duty. quote:“What’s the matter, Sambo?” says I. “Jealous?” Randolph rages at him, but Flashy just asks what he's going to do: tell everyone he's an escaped slave and his “owner” is a phony? quote:He stood there, sweat running down his face, his chest heaving with passion. For a moment I thought he would leap at me, but he changed his mind. Selachian fucked around with this message at 02:04 on Jun 27, 2020 |
|
#
?
Jun 26, 2020 23:33
|
|
|
Flashman more like Jerk-man.
|
|
#
?
Jun 27, 2020 00:43
|
|
|
I forget, was Crixus in Flashman and the Angel of the Lord too? The name sounds familiar, but it's been a few years.
|
|
#
?
Jun 27, 2020 01:20
|
|
|
The Rat posted:I forget, was Crixus in Flashman and the Angel of the Lord too? The name sounds familiar, but it's been a few years. Quick check on Wikipedia says yes.
|
|
#
?
Jun 27, 2020 01:30
|
|
|
heads up but you missed an n-word there (it's by "vittles")
|
|
#
?
Jun 27, 2020 01:57
|
|
|
Flashman storms off, wondering if he could actually get away with selling Randolph and using the money to fund his return to England – but he's unwilling to take the risk of crossing Crixus and the Underground Railroad. The Sultana continues up the river, briefly getting caught on a mud flat near Natchez, which requires a local pilot be brought aboard to guide her off. After they dock at Natchez, Flashman goes to check on Randolph again, and finds him terrified. quote:“A man came aboard at Natchez. I was watching, when the passengers came up the plank, and by God’s grace he did not see me. He knows me! He is a trader from Georgia—the very man who sold me to my first master! The first time I escaped, he was among those who brought me back! Don’t you see, imbecile—if he should catch sight of me here, we are finished! Oh, he knows all about George Randolph—he will know me on the instant. He will denounce me, I will be dragged back to—oh, my God!” And he put his head in his hands and sobbed with rage and fear. Randolph says the man's name is Peter Omohundro. At Flashman's questioning, Randolph says Omohundro doesn't have slaves with him, which is a good thing because it means he doesn't have any reason to come down to the slave deck. Flashman tells Randolph the best thing is to keep his head down and keep quiet, and Flashy will watch Omohundro and intervene if it looks like he's going belowdecks. quote:The first thing was to get a sight of Omohundro, which wasn’t difficult. By discreet inquiry I got him pointed out to me by a n(...)r waiter: a big, likely-looking bastard with a scarred face and heavy whiskers, one of your tough, wide-awake gentlemen who stared carefully at whoever was talking to him, spoke in a loud, steady way, and laughed easily. I also discovered that he was travelling only as far as Napoleon, which we ought to reach on the following evening. So that was all to the good, as I told Randolph later; he wasn’t going to have much time for prying about the boat. But I didn’t sleep much that night; even the outside risk of catastrophe is enough to keep me hopping to the water closet, and reaching for the brandy bottle. The boat is delayed from reaching Napoleon, so Omohundro is still aboard after dinner while Flashy is playing poker with a couple of fellow passengers, and he approaches the game: quote:“Matter of fact, I’m taking the liberty of intrudin’ on your little party in the hope I can kindly have a little word with your friend here—” he indicated Bradlee, to my relief “—on a matter of business. If the ladies will forgive, that is; I’m due off at Napoleon in an hour or two, so hopin’ you won’t mind.” Omohundro and Bradlee start a bit of negotiating, while Flashman is trying not to panic. Finally Bradlee offers to take Omohundro down to see his slaves, and: quote:I was on the point of jumping to my feet and making my excuses, when Potter, the interfering oaf, sings out: Omohundro and Bradlee head belowdecks, and Flashman sneaks after them. There's not much light on the cargo deck, so Flashy can hide in the darkness while the overseer brings a lantern so Omohundro can examine Bradlee's slaves. The three men chat a bit about slave discipline, and then the overseer starts complaining about “that Englishman” who's too indulgent of his slaves (“Breaks my heart to see good n(...)s spoiled, too, by soft handlin'”). In particular, he goes on, there's this educated, part-white slave that's way too uppity. And while Flashman watches, frozen in horror: quote:“The English is soft on n(...)s. Ev’yone know that,” says Bradlee. “I’d like to see the buck’d talk back to me; I’d just about like to hear that.” But it's three on one, and Randolph is still chained. quote:Randolph broke away, and before his irons finally tripped him he had covered half a dozen yards which brought him to the big box where I was crouching. He saw me as he fell, and shouted: In hindsight, Flashy writes, the smart thing would have been to stay aboard and pretend he had no idea that Randolph was a runaway. But in the moment he only wants to get away, and before Omohundro can catch him he's diving over the starboard rail (where there's no wheel) and swimming for it.
|
|
#
?
Jun 27, 2020 19:53
|
|
|
Have to say I appreciate this thread a lot it's great to revisit all the novels without reading through them myself.
|
|
#
?
Jun 28, 2020 10:05
|
|
|
quote:Even today I can’t feel anything but irritation and dislike for George Randolph. If he had only had the sense to keep his mouth shut and act humble for once, he’d never have been confronted by Omohundro that night; the odds are he’d have reached Canada without fuss and embarked immediately on a happy life as a professor at some liberal university, or the leader of a n(...)r minstrel troupe, or something equally useful. Instead his pride and folly had bought him a bullet in the belly and a grave in the Mississippi mud, as far as I could see; more important, he had put me in a highly dangerous and embarrassing position. Flashy swims for the Missisippi (eastern) side of the river, determined to head north. He only has a few dollars on him, and quickly spends them while sneaking through the countryside. When they're exhausted, he realizes he has to find work. While spending his last cents on a meal at a general store, he overhears another customer declaring he's quitting his job as a driver for someone named Mandeville and heading to California to hunt for gold. Seeing an opportunity, Flashman finds Mandeville's place, a cotton plantation called Greystones, and inquires about the position. quote:Mandeville was a broad, bull-necked man of about fifty with heavy whiskers on a coarse red face. See, Flashy thought he was applying for a job as a carriage driver.... He introduces himself as “Tom Arnold” from Texas. Mandeville offers him thirty dollars a month, which Flashy accepts. quote:(A)t that moment a n(...)r came round the house leading a fine white mare, and a lady came through the pillared front door, dressed for riding. Mandeville hailed her eagerly. Flashman turns out to be well-suited for a job that requires you to be a sadistic bully. Note the first sentence: Flashy's still enough of a gentleman to regard "work" as something the lower classes do. quote:(S)lave-driving is as pleasant an occupation as any, if you must work. You ride round the cotton rows on horse-back, seeing that the n(...)s don’t let up in filling their baskets, and laying on the leather when they slack. Greystones was a fair-sized place, with about a hundred n(...)s working the great snowy fields that stretched away from behind the house to the river, and they were a well-drilled pack by the time I’d done with ’em, I can tell you. I vented the discontent I felt at America on them, and enjoyed myself more than I’d done since my Rugby days, when lacing fags was the prime sport Although I had a couple of black drivers to help me, I became quite expert with my hide—you could make a sleepy n(...)r jump his own height with a well-placed welt across his backside, squealing his head off, and if any of them were short-weighted at the end of the day you gave them half a dozen cuts for luck. Mandeville was delighted with the tally of cotton picked, and told me I was the best overseer he’d ever had, which didn’t surprise me. It was work I could take a hearty interest in. Mandeville travels extensively on business, frequently leaving his wife alone for long periods. quote:I didn’t realise, fortunately for my self-esteem, that while a Southern planter wouldn’t have dreamed of leaving his wife unchaperoned in a house while there was a white man there, he’d never think twice if that man was a hired servant living in a cottage fifty yards away. However, she kept out of my way in those early days, and I out of hers. Not that Flashy has any designs on Mrs. Mandeville – Greystones is a good place to avoid pursuit, being out of the way, and he makes sure to be somewhere else whenever visitors come to the house. Also, he doesn't like her very much. quote:(W)hen we met she either looked straight through me or treated me as though I were no better than the blacks. If I hadn’t needed the work I’d have taken the rough side of my tongue to her, and as it was I gave her back sneer for sneer as far as I dared, so that before long we hated each other as cordially as man and woman can. And mind you, I don’t like this sort of thing; it ain’t usual to find a woman who isn’t prepared to be civil to me, and I’d grown my whiskers long again, and a rakish little black imperial, too. Mandeville is at least twice her age and thoroughly wrapped around her finger. She's spoiled, petulant, and enjoys unleashing her temper on him. Mandeville occasionally invites Flashy up to the house for a drink and explains the situation: she's from an old French family in New Orleans that's fallen into debt, and she married Mandeville for money. But she's used to city life and high society, of which there's none in the Mississippi backwoods. quote:“An’ no denyin’, either, me bein’ older’n she is, a little, she get kinda bored. I don’t talk quite her way, you see, an’ I ain’t got her—tastes, so to speak. So she get a mite res’less, like I say. An’ boy, don’ she dress me down then!” And he would giggle drunkenly, as though at some good joke which he thoroughly enjoyed. “Say, you oughta hear her when she got a real head o’ steam. My stars! Course, tain’t often.” Even when a fugitive from the law, working as a slave driver, and living in a farm shack, Flashman can still be a snob. Selachian fucked around with this message at 06:48 on Jun 29, 2020 |
|
#
?
Jun 28, 2020 14:30
|
|
|
Selachian posted:Flashy swims for the Missisippi (eastern) side of the river, determined to head north. I know Flashy doesn't mention them because he doesn't give a poo poo, but do we ever find out what happened to those poor volunteers in Randolph's coffle? Selachian posted:Flashman turns out to be well-suited for a job that requires you to be a sadistic bully. A triumph of English public school education!
|
|
#
?
Jun 29, 2020 09:58
|
|
|
Runcible Cat posted:I know Flashy doesn't mention them because he doesn't give a poo poo, but do we ever find out what happened to those poor volunteers in Randolph's coffle? Having grown up on the fringes of UK public schoos (ie at a minor public school) and also having fled in my 20s to spend most of my adult life all over the rest of the world, it is **extremely** unusual by international standards how much of public school culture is based on sadism and bolstering in-group solidarity by bullying and conformity to informal codes of behaviour. This carries through to the typical places we end up working, such as law firms, investment banks, government and so on. The only place I’ve been that comes close is Japan. Everywhere has it to a degree but for us it’s almost the point. Some day, an anthropologist is going to win some kind of prize for figuring out where it comes from. My best guess is that it’s either rooted in Norman culture, or that period in the early modern when the aristocracy was cosplaying being Romans and Greeks.
|
|
#
?
Jun 29, 2020 10:46
|
|
|
It turns out this island is just a bad place.
|
|
#
?
Jun 29, 2020 10:49
|
|
|
90s Cringe Rock posted:It turns out this island is just a bad place. Not just bad cav island; bad morals island.
|
|
#
?
Jun 29, 2020 11:31
|
|
|
i'm beginning to wonder if flashman might be a sebmojo fucked around with this message at 11:54 on Jun 29, 2020 |
|
#
?
Jun 29, 2020 11:51
|
|
|
sebmojo posted:I'm beginning to wonder if Flashman might be a He kind of is. Flashman almost seems to be a kind of sentient disease, like cancer or Ebola. The suspense isn't about what happens with him. We know from the framing device that he's alive into his 80s by the time he writes these "papers." Instead the suspense is about whether or not he'll infect/destroy the other (usually much more decent) people that he encounters. Of course he also encounters other bad people and he functions as a bad thing that happens to them as well.
|
|
#
?
Jun 29, 2020 13:17
|
|
|
Beefeater1980 posted:Having grown up on the fringes of UK public schoos (ie at a minor public school) and also having fled in my 20s to spend most of my adult life all over the rest of the world, it is **extremely** unusual by international standards how much of public school culture is based on sadism and bolstering in-group solidarity by bullying and conformity to informal codes of behaviour. This carries through to the typical places we end up working, such as law firms, investment banks, government and so on. The only place I’ve been that comes close is Japan. Everywhere has it to a degree but for us it’s almost the point. SPARTAAA!!! Hazing and hierarchical bullying is pretty common in all-male institutions. My wild-rear end unsupported guess would be that it's so gently caress-awful and institutionalized in public schools because the same kids are all stuck in the same place for years, the majority come in when they're very young and move up in status, so it's not like prison or the military where there's more churn at different levels and the power structure can get shaken up more often. So the structure replicates itself much more easily, helped along by the hur hur make a man of you never did me any harm attitude of parents and school admin, and the power of money and tradition. But I'm guessing. Have there been any studies, does anyone know? 90s Cringe Rock posted:It turns out this island is just a bad place. This too.
|
|
#
?
Jun 29, 2020 15:12
|
|
|
Runcible Cat posted:
Wasn't Lord of the Flies both inspired by and a direct critique of the British public school system?
|
|
#
?
Jun 29, 2020 19:35
|
|
|
Runcible Cat posted:But I'm guessing. Have there been any studies, does anyone know? This is basically the Stanford Prison Experiment, which is also wildly misunderstood due to the fact that Zimbardo doesn't understand it himself. It's presented as a "power corrupts" story, but if you scratch the surface it's basically "power coupled with a desire to please higher-ups inevitably evolves into abuse" story. The experimenters stressed to the "guards" that they were supposed to remain in control and that as long as things were peaceful they could do whatever they wanted. Class issues seem to be real deep in British society in a way that me as a non-Brit can't really get (William Gibson says that it's like guns in the US, where they're enough a part of the culture that you can't really get the nuances of the issue without being brought up there), but I think the specific kind of abuse and rigid hierarchy that you see in public schools is pretty common for all-male systems where the people at the top basically want things to be stable and don't care how it gets there. An interesting corollary to the Stanford Prison Experiment: the BBC did a replication in the mid-2000s where the guards got much stricter instructions about not abusing prisoners, and no abuse materialized.
|
|
#
?
Jun 29, 2020 19:39
|
|
|
Notahippie posted:Wasn't Lord of the Flies both inspired by and a direct critique of the British public school system? No, the issues in Lord of the Flies are a bit broader than British public schools. Lord of the Flies was a direct critique of The Coral Island. There's still a connection to the thread though, that Tom Brown's School Days:Flashman::The Coral Island:Lord of the Flies. e: Lord of the Flies better belongs with Alas, Babylon and On the Beach as the first set of books to seriously hand-wring about the Bomb and what would happen after, rather than as a critique of public schools. joat mon fucked around with this message at 20:39 on Jun 29, 2020 |
|
#
?
Jun 29, 2020 20:29
|
|
|
Very glad this thread is full steam ahead. As for Lord of the Flies, this is one of my favorite articles of the year: https://www.theguardian.com/books/2020/may/09/the-real-lord-of-the-flies-what-happened-when-six-boys-were-shipwrecked-for-15-months
|
|
#
?
Jun 29, 2020 22:08
|
|
|
Flashy expects to work for a few months at Greystones and he'll be able to save enough to head north, and hopefully by then people will have forgotten the Sultana incident and he'll be able to travel safely. quote:So I laboured away, whopping n(...)s, mounting the occasional black wench in my quarters, and counting my dollars every fortnight, and never gave a thought to Annette Mandeville. Sigh. Finally, Christmastime rolls around, and Flashy is feeling sentimental for home and Elspeth and getting impatient to return to England – especially since he still has the letters that implicate Morrison in the slave trade. He's taken (and I'm sure that's the right verb) one of the slave women, Hermia, as a regular cook/housekeeper/rape victim for his shack, and comes home from work one day to find her lying in bed having been beaten viciously. She says “Miz Annette” picked her out even though she'd done nothing wrong and had her whipped. Flashman shows his usual graciousness by “turn(ing) Hermia out, since she was of no use for anything in her present state” and choosing another woman the next day. And he comes home the to find the new woman also beaten severely, again on Miz Annette's orders. quote:Now I can take a hint as fast as the next man, but I confess I didn’t see all the way through this one, which was foolish of me. I took it that the spiteful little harridan was bent on denying me female companionship, but it never occurred to me why. Which shows what a modest chap I am, I suppose. In any event, I had to do something about it, for I was seething with anger at her malice, and since Mandeville was away in Memphis, I went straight up to the house to have it out with the mistress. Flashy confronts Annette, who contemptuously dismisses his complaints: they're her and her husband's slaves, and she can do what she likes. Flashy trails her upstairs as she goes to change out of riding clothes, still arguing: quote:“What you are paid for is to obey orders, not to question what I do. Your place is in the fields—not in this house. Be so good as to leave, at once!” The color of fingernails (and nailbeds) was supposed to be a giveaway for black people trying to pass as white. Louisiana Creoles are not necessarily mixed-race, but many are. Flashman goes on to threaten to tell Mandeville that his wife is having slave women beaten nearly to death just because his slave driver is screwing them, and then the penny drops: quote:And there I stopped, for there, and only there, the light dawned. As I say, I’m over-modest; she had been so damned uncivil to me, you see, that it honestly hadn’t crossed my mind that she fancied me. Usually, of course, I’m ready to accept that every woman does—well, they do—but she was such a shrew-faced pip-squeak, and so unpleasant… Annette bites Flashy's lip, hard, but puts up no further resistance as he carries her into the bedroom. quote:I was sitting on the bed, removing my boots, when she re-entered, and she was a startling sight, for she was stark naked except for her riding boots. That took me aback, for it ain’t usual among amateurs; something to do with her French upbringing, no doubt. When they're done, Annette orders Flashman out, and he limps off to treat his wounds. The next time Mandeville is away on business, Flashy finds an excuse to go up to the house again. quote:We discussed the piece of plantation business which I’d made my pretext for coming, and when I assailed her she fell to with a will—but never a word, or a smile, or anything but a fierce, cold passion that almost scared me. It was damned spooky, when I think of it now, and afterwards, when I tried to engage her in sociable chat, she sat moody and withdrawn, hardly saying a word. And not a stitch on, mark you—not even her boots. I’d taken good care of that. Flashman notes that only three women in his experience have “refused to be sociable afterwards”: Narreeman (“but she had been constrained, as they say, and wanted to murder me anyway”), Queen Ranavalona of Madagascar (“apart from being mad as a hatter she had affairs of state to attend to”), and Annette Mandeville. Not mentioned: Lady Caroline Lamb, Hermia, or the unnamed other slave woman.
|
|
#
?
Jun 29, 2020 22:50
|
|
|
Selachian posted:Flashman notes that only three women in his experience have “refused to be sociable afterwards”: Narreeman (“but she had been constrained, as they say, and wanted to murder me anyway”), Queen Ranavalona of Madagascar (“apart from being mad as a hatter she had affairs of state to attend to”), and Annette Mandeville. Not mentioned: Lady Caroline Lamb, Hermia, or the unnamed other slave woman. While hot air balloons existed, I don't think they were referred to as "flying machines." So Flash is talking about airplanes - and presumably doing so from the view of them as proven, usable vehicles. So that put the date of his papers... when? Maybe as late as 1920 or beyond. Holy poo poo, Flashman is immortal.
|
|
#
?
Jun 30, 2020 06:52
|
|
|
Fraser had Flashman live from 1822 to 1915.
|
|
#
?
Jun 30, 2020 07:07
|
|
|
Flashman faked his death and lives among us to this day. We can only hope he mostly happens to people who deserve it.
|
|
#
?
Jun 30, 2020 07:27
|
|
|
joat mon posted:Fraser had Flashman live from 1822 to 1915.
|
|
#
?
Jun 30, 2020 07:43
|
|
|
I'd forgotten that, I really liked it when I read it
|
|
#
?
Jun 30, 2020 07:54
|
|
|
joat mon posted:No, the issues in Lord of the Flies are a bit broader than British public schools. Lord of the Flies was a direct critique of The Coral Island. The minute it took for me to read this book and its sequel's summaries on Wikipedia was enough to make my stomach turn at the relentless imperialism.
|
|
#
?
Jun 30, 2020 13:54
|
|
|
Flashy continues to visit Annette; when he worries about the servants possibly finding out, she says none of them will dare cross her, which he can believe. Which leads to him staying a little too long one day....quote:We had just finished a bout; Annette was lying face down on the bed, silent and sullen as usual, and I was trying to win some warmth out of her with my gay chat, and also by biting her on the buttocks. Suddenly she stiffened under me, and in the same instant feet were striding up the corridor towards the room, Mandeville’s voice was shouting: Flashman dodges Mandeville's whip and heads for the stairs, but someone blocks his way, and a blow on his forehead knocks him out for a couple minutes. He comes to at the bottom of the stairs with his arms tied behind his back and a man standing on him. A few others are trying to hold Mandeville back as he rants and raves, accuses Flashy of rape (!), and threatens to murder him in a variety of ways. They drag Mandeville away to calm down while Flashy's captor hauls him in another room. quote:I was getting my wits back, and they told me that this fellow wasn’t unfriendly. The man is amused by the whole thing, but he clearly has no intention of letting Flashy go. Finally, after a long wait, Mandeville and the others return. quote:“You!” says he, and it was like the growl of a beast. “I going to kill you! D’ye hear that now? Kill you for the sneakin’ scum you are. Yes sir, I goin’ to watch you die for what you done!” There was froth at the corner of his mouth; he was appalling. “But before I do, you goin’ to tell these here gennelmen somethin’—you goin’ to confess to ’em that you tried to rape my wife! That so, isn’t it! You snuck up there, an’ you tuk her unawares, an’ try to ravish her.” He paused, livid. “Now, then—you tell ’em it was so.” Flashy can't answer for terror, but all the men agree that yes, that must be how it happened. Mandeville goes on to threatening to burn Flashman alive, or nail him to a tree and have him gelded, or worse. The others try to dissuade him, telling him he can't just murder a man, and fall to arguing what to do with him. Flashy gets punched in the face and gagged when he tries to join the discussion. quote:(P)resently Mandeville came over to me. Just admire that paragraph for a while. (A mustee, or octoroon, was the term for someone one-eighth black.) Selachian fucked around with this message at 23:05 on Jun 30, 2020 |
|
#
?
Jun 30, 2020 22:46
|
|
|
joat mon posted:Fraser had Flashman live from 1822 to 1915. Note that very specifically 1915 can be taken as the end of Victorian/Edwardian England. 1914 was still open warfare and 'we'll be home by Christmas'. 1915 is when everyone settles into the trenches.
|
|
#
?
Jun 30, 2020 22:55
|
|
|
I thought the (comparatively) large number of boarding schools in the UK was due to colonialism. All your Bright Young Men (and their wives) are off Add to that the principal found in all hierarchical societies, wherein "poo poo rolls downhill" becomes "poo poo MUST roll Downhill, that is the Natural Order of Things and How Dare You Question It." (A self-perpetuating lie, but being perpetuated by the sort who have exploited it to snag all the power for themselves.) You get a sort of of plodding equilibrium; keep your mouth shut when you get trod on, and you won't get trod on so bad; then when you're higher, YOU can do the treading. Consequently, everyone who grows up (or thrives) in such a system is at least somewhat emotionally damaged, if not sociopathic. Been reading some old British public school stories from The Magnet; the degree of stratification and deference feels more like something out of the Tokugawa era than the 20th century. Or, to sum it up: 
|
|
#
?
Jul 1, 2020 00:04
|
|
|
It's a rare book that makes you cheer a little when the protagonist gets literally sold down the river.
|
|
#
?
Jul 1, 2020 01:02
|
|
|
Ixjuvin posted:It's a rare book that makes you cheer a little when the protagonist gets literally sold down the river. Sure, but it's tempered by the near-certainty of Flashman tricking/exploiting his fellow slaves, stirring up some kind of revolt and escaping/becoming a "hero" in the confusion while his poor bastard compatriot slaves (and their families/children) get murdered.
|
|
#
?
Jul 1, 2020 07:37
|
|
|
Cobalt-60 posted:I thought the (comparatively) large number of boarding schools in the UK was due to colonialism. All your Bright Young Men (and their wives) are off There'd also be some children of high-ranking and co-operative natives, sent there to learn to behave like gentlemen - sons of maharajahs and whatnot. Bloke I know was at Eton with that Nepalese prince who murdered his family.
|
|
#
?
Jul 1, 2020 10:40
|
|
|
Selachian posted:Just admire that paragraph for a while. It's really something, isn't it? That's why I love seeing /r/leopardsatemyface kinda news stories here and there -- the mask just drops completely and utterly as you reveal that A.) you were fully aware that the system you were propping up was a living hell for people, B.) you are a no-poo poo racist who assumed it would never happen to you because of your racial superiority, and C.) you're a callous, soulless motherfucker without a drop of empathy in your body.
|
|
#
?
Jul 1, 2020 16:53
|
|
|
Phenotype posted:It's really something, isn't it? That's why I love seeing /r/leopardsatemyface kinda news stories here and there -- the mask just drops completely and utterly as you reveal that A.) you were fully aware that the system you were propping up was a living hell for people, B.) you are a no-poo poo racist who assumed it would never happen to you because of your racial superiority, and C.) you're a callous, soulless motherfucker without a drop of empathy in your body. This is unfortunately all too real life. I have a great-aunt who is in her 80s and is a (white) small-town Texan. I don't talk to her anymore, but once about 20 years ago at a family gathering she used the expression "as nervous as an [n-word] on election day." I'd never heard anybody say that, and it about stopped my heart - it was such a casual acknowledgement of the brutality that was used in the south to suppress the black vote. The callousness of it still blows my mind... it's not just admitting the terrorism, but taking it so much for granted and appropriate that you use it as an aphorism. The people who run apartheid systems know what they're doing, and don't let anybody pretend otherwise.
|
|
#
?
Jul 1, 2020 17:25
|
|
|
Flashman is dragged out of the house and thrown into the back of an enclosed slave cart driven by one Tom Little, along with another guard. The only other occupant is a woman, who tells him to calm down as he struggles and the cart rattles off onto the road.quote:Her name was Cassy, and I believe that without her I must have gone mad on that first night on the slave cart. The darkness, the close animal stench of the enclosed space in which we were cooped up, and most of all the horror of what lay ahead, reduced me to a croaking wreck. And while I lay shuddering and moaning to myself, she stroked my head and talked in a soft, sibilant voice—hardly a trace of n(...)r, more New Orleans Frenchy, like Annette’s—telling me to be easy, and rest, and not to waste my breath on foolish raving. All very well, but foolish raving is a capital way of releasing one’s feelings. He eventually falls asleep, and is awoken by daylight. A look around the cart shows that there's no way to get out; it's solidly built and the door is securely locked. quote:The horror of it overcame me again, and I just lay there and wept. There was no hope, and the woman’s voice suddenly came to confirm my fears. Cassy tells Flashman there's no point in making a fuss: there's no escape, and he just needs to resign himself to plantation work. She asks if he was a house slave or something, and he tells her that he's white. quote:She stared at me through the dimness. “Oh, come now. We stop saying that when we’re ten years old.” Flashman is still trying desperately to formulate escape plans, but Cassy brushes them off: everything he can think of has been tried again and again, and none of it works. She's run away three times herself, and been caught every time. Finally, Flashman sinks into despair. When the guards open a hatch and shove in some food and water, he tries to convince them to let him go and offers money, but gets the reaction you'd expect. The cart stops at sunset, and Cassy addresses Flashman: quote:“Listen,” she said. “You want to escape?” We all know what Flashman's promise is worth, but he makes it anyway. Cassy's plan is this: when the guards feed them again, Flashman should pretend to be having sex with her, and when they see that, Flashy needs to defy the guards. She'll handle the rest. Flashy asks for more details, but there's no time, the guards are already coming. She rolls over on the floor and pulls Flashman on top of her. quote:I heard the hatch flung open, and in that moment Cassy writhed and began to sob in simulated ecstasy, clawing at me and squealing. There was an oath and commotion at the hatch, and then a cry of: Little's thoughts immediately follow the obvious path. Still holding his gun on Flashy, he orders Cassy out and then locks the cart door. Flashy listens in as she continues to play dumb as Little orders the other guard, George, away because he doesn't want an audience. A couple minutes later, Cassy yells to “Mas' George” for help because “Mas' Tom” hurt himself. George comes running, and then the gun goes off. And then Cassy unlocks the wagon door, still naked and with the gun in her hand. Climbing out, Flashman sees that George's face has been blown off, and Little is dying by the fire with his own knife in him. quote:Cassy was at the wagon, holding weakly to the door, her head hanging. I hopped over to her, grabbed her round the waist and swung her off her feet. As Cassy recovers, Flashman searches the bodies, finding a few dollars and helping himself to George's clothes. quote:By gum, I admired that girl, and still do—she’d have made a rare mate for my old Sergeant Hudson—and while I heated up some coffee and vittles left by the late unlamented, I told her what I thought of her. And where did it get Sergeant Hudson? Selachian fucked around with this message at 23:02 on Jul 1, 2020 |
|
#
?
Jul 1, 2020 22:18
|
|
|
Notahippie posted:Wasn't Lord of the Flies both inspired by and a direct critique of the British public school system? No, it was a direct description of what Golding wanted British public schools to turn into because he was a nihilistic, sadistic bully.
|
|
#
?
Jul 1, 2020 22:42
|
|
|
Selachian posted:
So, at this point in the Flashman Papers, Fraser threatens to treat a black woman as though she were an actual, full human being with her own thoughts, feelings and goals. So... yeah, Cassie's going to die ugly now, isn't she? See, I'm not really cheering for her to escape slavery. She's shown she can do that pretty much on her own. But I'm half-praying that she manages to escape Flashman and his lethal curse of selfish assholery before he (and it) kills her.
|
|
#
?
Jul 3, 2020 04:23
|
|
|
Cassy asks Flashman if he remembers his promise, and he says yes. She goes on with the rest of her plan. Since he's a white man, they can travel as master and slave, and hopefully at least get out of the state before the bodies are discovered or Mandeville finds out “Tom Arnold” never made it to the plantation he was destined for. They can take the cart a short way, but they need to travel faster, which means getting back to the river and aboard a boat. Flashman points out that the money they have isn't enough for passage on a boat. Cassy says they have guns, and they can steal what they need, but Flashman doesn't want to take the risk of committing a robbery and possibly getting the law on them. quote:“Risk!” she blazed. “You talk of risk, after what I have done this night? Don’t you see—we have two murders on our hands—isn’t that a risk? Do you know what will happen if we’re caught—you will be hanged, and I’ll be burned alive! And you talk of robbery as a risk!” But Flashman keeps arguing against the idea, so finally Cassy comes up with another idea: they can go to Memphis, and she knows how she can make money there. quote:And to my astonishment she began to weep—not sobbing, but just great tears rolling down her cheeks. She dashed them away, and then fumbled inside her dress, and after a moment she produced a paper, soiled but very carefully-folded, which she passed to me. Wondering, I opened it, and saw that it was a bill of sale, dated February 1843, for one Cassy, a negro girl, the property of one Angel de Marmalade (I swear that was the name) of New Orleans, now duly sold and delivered to Fitzroy Howard, of San Antonio de Bexar. There was another scrap of paper with it which fluttered down—she made a grab, but not in time to prevent me seeing the words scrawled on it in a coarse, lumpy hand: Cassy says Flashman can take the money and buy passage for them on a boat north, and then she'll run away from her new buyer, they'll meet up on the boat, and escape together. Knowing Flashman as we do, I'm sure you already see the flaw in that plan. But fortunately for Cassy, she's not dumb. quote:“If I didn’t get out of Memphis,” says she, slowly and intently, leaning forward to look into my face, “I’d give myself up—and tell them how we had run together, and you had killed two men back in Mississippi, and where the bodies were, and all about you. You wouldn’t get far, Mr—what is your name, anyway?”
|
|
#
?
Jul 3, 2020 04:24
|
|
|
|
| # ? Jun 2, 2024 13:52 |
|
|
I love that beyond Cassy being obviously pretty, the thing Flash admires most about her is her ruthlessness.
|
|
#
?
Jul 3, 2020 07:34
|
|