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Mors Rattus posted:Or check by googling, apparently, which is what I did. That’s weird. A number of indie designers I know really hate this design. Especially if they're broadly in the 5e OGL space where they're not allowed in the Guild... But surprise.
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Jul 1, 2020 18:18
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| # ? May 25, 2024 02:45 |
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Speaking of disowning Blood in the Chocolate, the author has.
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Jul 1, 2020 18:56
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Reading that, that feels like a genuine, explicit, and though-out apology. I am still priming myself to learn why it was bad.
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Jul 1, 2020 19:04
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Leraika posted:Speaking of disowning Blood in the Chocolate, the author has. Well god drat. I wasn't expecting that. I'm glad he's said something.
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Jul 1, 2020 19:09
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Leraika posted:Speaking of disowning Blood in the Chocolate, the author has. Nice! I've never met the author, but he is a friend of a friend and our mutual friend is definitely very good on these issues, so I'm really happy to see this.
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Jul 1, 2020 19:28
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e: nm
Absurd Alhazred fucked around with this message at 19:58 on Jul 22, 2020 |
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Jul 1, 2020 19:33
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"NO APOLOGY IS GOOD ENOUGH FOR THE HATERS" scream the shitbags. "Hold my mead."
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Jul 1, 2020 19:35
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Leraika posted:Speaking of disowning Blood in the Chocolate, the author has. This is a good apology. I’m not totally sure how ‘recreating the myths of colonialism literally as reality’ was meant to be a takedown of colonialism, but the dude has clearly learned since then.
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Jul 1, 2020 19:47
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CitizenKeen posted:Reading that, that feels like a genuine, explicit, and though-out apology. I am still priming myself to learn why it was bad. Rather than try to read the actual book, I would recommend reading this review here https://projects.inklesspen.com/fatal-and-friends/hyphz/blood-in-the-chocolate/, when you're ready. When this all came up, my friends and I read this review and we all agreed to never touch LotFP after that.
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Jul 1, 2020 20:40
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dwarf74 posted:I love Lancer and think the Ennies are not great, but publicly excoriating something you(r company) signed up for tempers my admiration of what was otherwise a stellar call-out. I really wish it wouldn't have been submitted in the first place. e: whoops, missed some posts and I'm incorrect.
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Jul 1, 2020 20:59
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Evil Mastermind posted:Nobody at Massif Press submitted it for the Ennies. They basically found out when the nominees were announced. Nah, someone did...a year ago, unaware of the history, and on,y learned it when the rest of the company was like ‘wait, what’ and educated him when the noms went up. He said so on Twitter.
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Jul 1, 2020 21:01
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Mors Rattus posted:This is a good apology. I’m not totally sure how ‘recreating the myths of colonialism literally as reality’ was meant to be a takedown of colonialism, but the dude has clearly learned since then. For me the standout part of the apology is the explanation that, essentially, in order to fit in with the "cool kids" doing LotFP stuff they felt compelled to add all the shock value stuff like rape and body horror and fart curses etc. It makes it clear that a lot of this stuff really is just following the leader to maintain a brand of "things a 13 year old would find edgy" instead of any grand artistic statement.
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Jul 1, 2020 21:13
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That is a shockingly good apology, and addresses the wrongdoing and what brought it about. It even includes a plan of action for the future, in removing the book from DTRPG when possible. It also makes Rients look like even more of a wad, so that’s great too.
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Jul 1, 2020 21:45
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Green Intern posted:That is a shockingly good apology, and addresses the wrongdoing and what brought it about. It even includes a plan of action for the future, in removing the book from DTRPG when possible. Also for kicks one could respond to the official LotFP account that was all 'hey you can buy our actually award-winning ENnie product' when Massif made their post with something like 'yeah, but do it in the next year because the original writer dislikes the work so much they wants it scrubbed.'
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Jul 1, 2020 22:11
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My FLGS is good people. https://www.facebook.com/291890157578509/posts/2654761017958066/ quote:Ok, serious note for today about Cards Against Humanity.
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Jul 2, 2020 00:26
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dwarf74 posted:My FLGS is good people. This is a pretty nice post but I cannot possibly share even their tentative optimism considering part of CAH's response was a ridiculous list of "I don't see color/my black friend"-style stuff.
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Jul 2, 2020 00:36
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CitizenKeen posted:Reading that, that feels like a genuine, explicit, and though-out apology. I am still priming myself to learn why it was bad. Didn't someone post up thread that he'd written another adventure with similar themes? So, yes it's a good apology, but if he's done a bunch of similar products, or even just one other, then not only was now the time to apologise for them as well but maybe he needs to take a long look at himself for the themes he's writing about. That's not taking away from the apology, which was good, and raggi and lotfrp are both poo poo.
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Jul 2, 2020 02:23
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PST posted:Didn't someone post up thread that he'd written another adventure with similar themes? I saw a title of his that was "Perils of the Fat Princess", but I did not dare investigate any further.
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Jul 2, 2020 04:46
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real talk why cant folks keep their weird sex poo poo and their ttrpgin separate
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Jul 2, 2020 05:00
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gradenko_2000 posted:I saw a title of his that was "Perils of the Fat Princess", but I did not dare investigate any further. I took the plunge: it's a 2014 one-page mini-adventure for 1st level 5e characters. Villain has kidnapped a princess and used magic cakes to fatten her up to make her into a sacrifice for an old god, and you rescue her while avoiding said magic cakes flying into your mouth. Still pretty obvious what the guy's kink is, but it's pretty tame compared to Blood in the Chocolate.
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Jul 2, 2020 05:02
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The presence of kink in RPGs is a long, long discussion, but there is definitely a difference between something that is kinky and fun and something that is kinky and deeply, deeply unsettling. It seems that Fat Princess is the former and BitC is the latter. What I’ve seen of Kiel’s work since BitC does seem in line with his apology, where BitC was made as excessively edgy to try to appeal to what he saw as “the cool crowd,” and that he’s since learned better since.
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Jul 2, 2020 05:43
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The Chairman posted:I took the plunge: it's a 2014 one-page mini-adventure for 1st level 5e characters. Villain has kidnapped a princess and used magic cakes to fatten her up to make her into a sacrifice for an old god, and you rescue her while avoiding said magic cakes flying into your mouth. Still pretty obvious what the guy's kink is, but it's pretty tame compared to Blood in the Chocolate. It's also almost certainly a reference to a video game. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Fat_Princess
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Jul 2, 2020 05:49
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The weird kink poo poo is weird kink poo poo, but the real problems with Blood in the Chocolate (and the things he rightly denounces and apologizes for) are all the racism and sexual assault.
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Jul 2, 2020 06:04
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Johnny Landmine posted:The weird kink poo poo is weird kink poo poo, but the real problems with Blood in the Chocolate (and the things he rightly denounces and apologizes for) are all the racism and sexual assault. Yeah I said as much on twitter and elsewhere, the problems with Blood in the Chocolate go way beyond someone's inflation/feeding fetish stuff which isn't my cup of tea but if that's all it was I'd just be like "yeah whatever" and move along.
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Jul 2, 2020 06:36
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Also, you know, time being linear BitC seems to postdate the other by years so it's not exactly evidence that the person kept on chugging with this afterwards. That's like pointing to a dumb "edgy" joke I did when I was 14 and saying I'm not profoundly sad about it by showing another joke I did when 13. Dude wrote some hosed up poo poo, but seems to have done an actual, real apology for once in this whole ever so while I'm not gonna die defending them, I'll at least defend the concept of linear time.
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Jul 2, 2020 07:46
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Unfortunately, we are currently living in a period of time dilation
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Jul 2, 2020 07:51
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Green Intern posted:That is a shockingly good apology, and addresses the wrongdoing and what brought it about. It even includes a plan of action for the future, in removing the book from DTRPG when possible. About the only further step he could take would be donating the proceeds to charity, but if he isn't in a position to do that - as many freelancer wouldn't be - that's fine. This was a model apology; almost of all of the times it uses "I" it's in the context of "I hosed up", which is exactly right for an apology..
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Jul 2, 2020 08:59
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Farg posted:real talk why cant folks keep their weird sex poo poo and their ttrpgin separate  (from Gunshow)
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Jul 2, 2020 14:13
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how do we not have :whizzard:
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Jul 2, 2020 15:16
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Cat Face Joe posted:how do we not have :whizzard: No one wants to spend money on it E: and frankly until the forums sale is complete, maybe don’t?
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Jul 2, 2020 15:16
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Mors Rattus posted:No one wants to spend money on it even prior to this mess
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Jul 2, 2020 15:17
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Johnny Landmine posted:The weird kink poo poo is weird kink poo poo, but the real problems with Blood in the Chocolate (and the things he rightly denounces and apologizes for) are all the racism and sexual assault. If you strip out all the obvious kink poo poo, fetish bait, sexism, rape, and gratuitous racism there's nothing in the module. ...and not to rag on the author's apology (which I admit is better than most) but, 'I thought I was writing a brilliant takedown of colonialism!' is bullshit, and no one should believe that for a second. It was written in 2017 ffs, not 1970.
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Jul 2, 2020 16:17
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It's pretty easy to believe that he told himself it was a clever takedown of imperialism and not juvenile one-upping. It's the same crap you'll hear from people talking about up CAH as a tool for exploring racism.
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Jul 2, 2020 16:28
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You get a lot of "edgelord reproduction of lovely thing is actually satire because I a non-bigot wrote it" floating around and it's a fairly easy trap to fall into if you've led a privileged life.
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Jul 2, 2020 16:42
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mllaneza posted:About the only further step he could take would be donating the proceeds to charity, but if he isn't in a position to do that - as many freelancer wouldn't be - that's fine. This was a model apology; almost of all of the times it uses "I" it's in the context of "I hosed up", which is exactly right for an apology.. Someone actually suggested that and he responded favorably: https://twitter.com/josieundead/status/1278367045315420165
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Jul 2, 2020 16:55
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Meinberg posted:The presence of kink in RPGs is a long, long discussion, but there is definitely a difference between something that is kinky and fun and something that is kinky and deeply, deeply unsettling. It seems that Fat Princess is the former and BitC is the latter. One person's fun is another person's deeply unsettling, which is why it's so difficult to draw clear guidelines for what is good and bad "inserting your fetish into a piece of fiction". The more offbeat someone's fetish is the easier it is to notice when they shove it in your face, but I don't think we should give Tarantino a pass just because someone might not realize on a first viewing that the camera lingered a lot on Uma Thurman's feet for a very specific reason.
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Jul 2, 2020 18:14
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I don't particularly care about other people's fetishes being in their stuff. So long as the parties involved are consenting without any type of coercion either direct or implied I don't care. Tarantino's foot fetish is non existent on my list of problems with him. Who cares if dude has an expansion fetish and can get his players to enthusiastically consent to that poo poo. It gets more murky when creating for public consumption, but a foot fetish is like basic normie poo poo. Once you get into like the things you fetish being like crimes is when you run into issues.
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Jul 2, 2020 18:39
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LatwPIAT posted:One person's fun is another person's deeply unsettling, which is why it's so difficult to draw clear guidelines for what is good and bad "inserting your fetish into a piece of fiction". The more offbeat someone's fetish is the easier it is to notice when they shove it in your face, but I don't think we should give Tarantino a pass just because someone might not realize on a first viewing that the camera lingered a lot on Uma Thurman's feet for a very specific reason. I noticed in one scene in Kill Bill and thought it was a reference to FDR's quote about spending a week learning to move your big toe. Ah, the innocence of (relative) youth. And of course on top of all that, there's the fact that the rampant sexualization of women is completely normalized if you're just into skin-tight outfits on boobs and butts like a "normal American man" or whatever. If that's what gets you going (rather than feet or w/e) pretty much every movie has some loving camera lingers for you. In terms of when inserting it is good or bad, I just sort of wish authors would tag "I find some stuff in here sexy," and give broad-strokes details of what. I get that people think they're clever with "well if you're into it great, otherwise it's horror," but it's generally pretty easy to tell when the author is into it, and that doesn't make it creepy in the good way. Better to just own it.
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Jul 2, 2020 18:41
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Dexo posted:So long as the parties involved are consenting without any type of coercion either direct or implied I don't care. So are you saying that every viewer of a Tarantino movie consented to be involved with his foot fetish?
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Jul 2, 2020 18:49
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Dexo posted:It gets more murky when creating for public consumption, but a foot fetish is like basic normie poo poo. Once you get into like the things you fetish being like crimes is when you run into issues. Tying someone to a chair against their will is definitely a crime. However, if that person is a character played by Scarlet Johansson, you can put it in your movie and nobody will bat an eye at your non-consensual bondage fantasies because tied-up women is basic normie poo poo in TV and film.
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Jul 2, 2020 18:56
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