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Tunicate posted:I'd bet if it came up, using the card in game would only work on injuries sustained within greed island itself, and you'd need to win the game and bring it to the real world to work on anything else. Otherwise richman could have just entered GI with his lover and had the magic items brought directly to him. quote:
There was also a literal wish granting genie that gives you 3 wishes, but you have to provide a list of 1000 different wishes as well and it will pick three of them. No, you cannot ask for different amounts of money, it's specified on the card you can't do that.
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Jul 3, 2020 03:14
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thanks for the answers so, here's possibly a dumb question but: the rich dude apparently has been involved in the game for at least 3 years. if his goal was to save his lover, wouldn't it have just been easier to go out into the world and find a nen user that had similar abilities to that of the healing card?
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Jul 3, 2020 03:40
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ImpAtom posted:My assumption on the reason you don't see more hyper super mega ultra specially focused Nen stuff is because it requires you to have an insane level of dedication to something. Like Kirapika can hypercharge himself because he's a broken dude whose sole obsession is destroying his life. Netero is a crazy fightman to a degree that would make Goku go "yo dude chill out with the fighting a bit." well you can, but without corresponding fundamentals such people are easy prey. the only reason why kurapika's version works is because of emperor time, which let him bend a bunch of rules to make himself omnicapable. so naturally, after going exactly to his own extended limit, kurapika went even further with steal chain and that is going to keep kicking him in the dick until he dies. steal chain is a fundamentally flawed idea, but kurapika assumed he could handle it because he had already essentially gamed the system for instant power so why wouldn't that always work?
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Jul 3, 2020 03:46
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Mr Interweb posted:thanks for the answers there is healing and then there is miraculous, impossible healing. she was brain dead. i don't think alluka was available, so it had to be greed island.
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Jul 3, 2020 03:48
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Mr Interweb posted:thanks for the answers Greed Island was him going out and finding something. This kind of nen is ultra, absurdly rare. Nen users are absurdly rare and they tend not to hyper focus their nen restrictions to specialize in something like that.
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Jul 3, 2020 03:52
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huh, okay. i mean, it's pretty big world, i figured there may have been other possibilities. but sure, i'm willing to accept that. anyway, the logistics of greed island just seem insane, even if a lot can just be explained by 'cuz nen'.
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Jul 3, 2020 03:58
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There's only a couple of instances of "healing" that is actually magical and you haven't hit them yet but suffice to say they are well beyond the capability of the average Nen user.
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Jul 3, 2020 04:05
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Mr Interweb posted:huh, okay. i mean, it's pretty big world, i figured there may have been other possibilities. but sure, i'm willing to accept that It's not like there aren't other possibilities of someone having a healing ability that could help, but when you're already looking at less than 1% of the population that can use this esoteric magic system, it's probably like looking for a single grain of sand in a haystack. Pouring his money into Greed Island and hiring hundreds of people, including a well respected and capable hunter, was probably his best lead.
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Jul 3, 2020 04:07
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The best healing Nen outside of the Card in Greed Island was Neferpitou and I don't think Dr Blythe could fix brain death. Also from the sound of it. Stuff was close, if his lover had lasted another month he would have gotten the card.
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Jul 3, 2020 04:26
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Mr Interweb posted:huh, okay. i mean, it's pretty big world, i figured there may have been other possibilities. but sure, i'm willing to accept that. There are, it's just that for a guy like Battera who was turbo rich, Greed Island was (ostensibly) the easiest method he could find since all he had to do was buy a ton of copies and pay a bunch of Hunters to try and clear the game. He just didn't account for the players basically preventing one another from completing it for years at a time, or especially guys like the bombers getting in there.
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Jul 3, 2020 04:26
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Yeah, healing is rare and super magical healing, such as curing brain death, is exceptionally rare. Even among the Spiders they closest thing they have to healing, barring something Chrollo would have stolen, is sewing body parts back on like we saw done to Hisoka.
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Jul 3, 2020 04:49
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The things in Greed Island don't exist for dumb reasons like 'making sense', it's because Togashi thought it would be sweet if Gon and Killua went into a video game to win a game of dodgeball with the help of a magical clown man, and he was 10000% correct about this. If this premise does not bring a smile to your face and a boner to your heart may I suggest you are doing it ALL WRONG.
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Jul 3, 2020 06:36
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Stuffguyman posted:The things in Greed Island don't exist for dumb reasons like 'making sense', it's because Togashi thought it would be sweet if Gon and Killua went into a video game to win a game of dodgeball with the help of a magical clown man, and he was 10000% correct about this. If this premise does not bring a smile to your face and a boner to your heart may I suggest you are doing it ALL WRONG. What if it brings a smile to my heart and a boner to my face?
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Jul 3, 2020 06:38
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ya sorry 'bout that
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Jul 3, 2020 06:55
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Stuffguyman posted:The things in Greed Island don't exist for dumb reasons like 'making sense', it's because Togashi thought it would be sweet if Gon and Killua went into a video game to win a game of dodgeball with the help of a magical clown man, and he was 10000% correct about this. If this premise does not bring a smile to your face and a boner to your heart may I suggest you are doing it ALL WRONG. The premise does but everything that wasn’t that specific part and Biscuit and her training was a tad dull in practice.
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Jul 3, 2020 07:11
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Stuffguyman posted:The things in Greed Island don't exist for dumb reasons like 'making sense', it's because Togashi thought it would be sweet if Gon and Killua went into a video game to win a game of dodgeball with the help of a magical clown man, and he was 10000% correct about this. If this premise does not bring a smile to your face and a boner to your heart may I suggest you are doing it ALL WRONG. there's a lot of leeway people can give for when it comes to fantasy and fiction scenarios. but everyone has a point where it's a bit difficult to suspend disbelief any further. and when that happens, it ends up effecting your enjoyment for said fictional scenarios. this might not be the best example as it's not important in the context of the overall story or plot, but remember how in the second captain america movie, there's this scene where Cap and Black Widow find this underground bunker that belongs to the government, and find out that dr. zola digitized himself inside their computers? now that by itself wouldn't have caused much of a problem for me. plenty of movies/t.v. shows have played with that concept before. however, what REALLY bugged me was that they transferred his brain into the equivalent of those old apple 2 computers with the green screens that you could play oregon trail on. i'm sorry, but that just seemed really, REALLY dumb to me. it bugged me moreso because this is the same universe where you can travel to different galaxies on your lunch break (and yes, i'm aware that this particular movie was more 'grounded' with far less sci fi elements, but it's not like hydra didn't already have incredibly advanced Asgardian technology in the 40s or anything). anyway, that one scene pretty much ruined the rest of the movie for me. i was enjoying it mostly well up until that point. and sure, even the stuff after was pretty good. but i could just not forgive that scene. it was just too stupid. now, is it fair for me to punish the rest of the movie for that one bad scene? probably not. maybe it's not reasonable at all. but i did feel the way i did, and kinda hard to force yourself to ignore that. and that was just a scene that wasn't that relevant in the grand scheme of things. it wasn't a particularly pertinent plot point (heh...alliteration  ). as opposed to greed island, where the suspension of disbelief hinges on the ENTIRE concept. i appreciate the explanations, and it certainly helps me understand it a bit better, but i spent most of the arc not really enjoying mostly cause i couldn't figure out how any of this poo poo worked.
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Jul 3, 2020 07:16
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Nen can create rooms with its own rulesets. They essentially expanded it to a whole island. It's supercharged with the specific way to enter - no one can enter from the outside or it'd presumably break - that's why Razor kicks them out, and the rest of its rules. Presumably the twin administrators can't leave either and are the crux of everything. The more rules the more stuff and more powerful stuff you can do and Greed Island has a lot of rules.
Kild fucked around with this message at 17:33 on Jul 3, 2020 |
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Jul 3, 2020 17:28
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Nen restrictions creating power is one of the more genius inventions I've seen in a sci-fi setting. "Why not just do the obvious thing instead of the convoluted thing that makes for a good conflict?" Because by the laws of nature convoluted things are magically stronger. It's perfection.
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Jul 3, 2020 21:29
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That's a good point...
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Jul 3, 2020 21:56
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The tabletop RPG Nobilis had a similar system of restrictions, from what I remember.
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Jul 4, 2020 00:41
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No Wave posted:Nen restrictions creating power is one of the more genius inventions I've seen in a sci-fi setting. "Why not just do the obvious thing instead of the convoluted thing that makes for a good conflict?" Because by the laws of nature convoluted things are magically stronger. It's perfection. He also tied it to emotions so you didn’t have characters rule lawyering power
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Jul 4, 2020 00:41
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Which also means that the most powerful Nen users often have the most extreme personality traits, which makes giving them character flaws very easy. Except Meruem!
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Jul 4, 2020 01:06
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Eej posted:Which also means that the most powerful Nen users often have the most extreme personality traits, which makes giving them character flaws very easy. Except Meruem! Meruem absolutely has an extreme personality even if it takes time to show. He is about conflict and conquest and to make everything his, which is why his Nen ability is technically the ability to devour other's nen. He's also the guy who fell in love with a woman because she played a game so exceptionally well that it actually challenged him, and likewise he wanted to have a genuine fight with Netero (which ended up being his downfall in the end.)
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Jul 4, 2020 01:30
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Mr Interweb posted:now, is it fair for me to punish the rest of the movie for that one bad scene? probably not. maybe it's not reasonable at all. but i did feel the way i did, and kinda hard to force yourself to ignore that. and that was just a scene that wasn't that relevant in the grand scheme of things. it wasn't a particularly pertinent plot point (heh...alliteration If you stick with the series you'll see some more crazy things that can be done with nen.
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Jul 4, 2020 01:51
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well, it might only be luck within the greed island system.
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Jul 4, 2020 03:14
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gimme the GOD drat candy posted:well, it might only be luck within the greed island system. Right, first thing that comes to mind are the slot machines. If you can conjure up a bunch of slot machines you can probably hook them up to some dice.
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Jul 4, 2020 04:17
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gimme the GOD drat candy posted:well, it might only be luck within the greed island system. Not when those cards are ones that can also be taken off the island and theoretically applied to any activity. If these only worked on slot machines or other gambling activities that would make sense as just manipulation and maybe emissions to teleport things like cards in a deck around. Risky Dice, Wild Luck Alexandrite, and Luck Bankbook all rely on altering luck and basically fate. Cool in concept but really makes me scratch my noggin.
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Jul 4, 2020 05:26
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Brought To You By posted:Not when those cards are ones that can also be taken off the island and theoretically applied to any activity. If these only worked on slot machines or other gambling activities that would make sense as just manipulation and maybe emissions to teleport things like cards in a deck around. Risky Dice, Wild Luck Alexandrite, and Luck Bankbook all rely on altering luck and basically fate. Cool in concept but really makes me scratch my noggin. Not to me. We know that Nen can do stuff like that. And the rules for using them are double edged. Plus once again to use them outside of Greed Island it requires that you beat the game.
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Jul 4, 2020 05:40
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I think it's also sort of relevant to the nen restrictions that the nen users controlling these powers can't even choose who gets to use them. Like, theoretically the person who wins Greed Island could use their omnipotent powers to help kill the creators of Greed Island. Part of the deal for all of this is giving up direct control over it.
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Jul 4, 2020 05:42
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MonsterEnvy posted:Not to me. We know that Nen can do stuff like that. And the rules for using them are double edged. Plus once again to use them outside of Greed Island it requires that you beat the game. It's not a question of restrictions it's a matter of what is actually possible using nen. This is like someone telling me that Ai grant wishes using nen which I disagree with because it goes beyond what I assume nen can accomplish. Specialization is a wildcard category but this isn't jojo, I don't treat fate as something malleable to a nen user.
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Jul 4, 2020 05:46
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Brought To You By posted:I assume 
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Jul 4, 2020 05:57
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Brought To You By posted:I don't treat fate as something malleable to a nen user. Neon. She can just tell people the 100% accurate future which can only be messed with if you see her fortunes.
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Jul 4, 2020 06:19
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 At the end of the day we don't know many hard limitations to Nen as a magic system and many rules are still implied but not made explicit if at all. Meleron was cool because he could be perfectly undetectable and that was just thrown into the specialization camp and I liked it. But then No less than 3 abilities in the Succession war are able to do basically the same thing with the catch that they are still visible to at least one person and then nobody else can see them or even detect them with any means. But the sole spectator of the ability can also be the person who made it themselves so it's not like a risky restriction or something in the case of Steal chain nor was it a drawback for Predator. Sometimes things just seem to work for facilitating the plot which wraps this back to the original statement. On top of that specialists don't really run a wide range of abilities since more than 1/3 in the series just steal powers in different ways so it's not like too many unbelievable things exist in the story to expand my concept of what nen can accomplish in these fringe cases.Risky dice saw actual use but was only ever paired with other cards to increase favorable odds in theft rates, or at a casino which I already explained the logic of. Which is why I don't even fault someone for first assuming the card only works on Greed Island in the first place because that's where it makes the most sense such a card could function properly. MonsterEnvy posted:Neon. She can just tell people the 100% accurate future which can only be messed with if you see her fortunes.
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Jul 4, 2020 06:34
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ImpAtom posted:Meruem absolutely has an extreme personality even if it takes time to show. He is about conflict and conquest and to make everything his, which is why his Nen ability is technically the ability to devour other's nen. He's also the guy who fell in love with a woman because she played a game so exceptionally well that it actually challenged him, and likewise he wanted to have a genuine fight with Netero (which ended up being his downfall in the end.) Yeah I'm just joking cause he's so powerful that he doesn't really get punished for his mistakes until the very end.
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Jul 4, 2020 06:42
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Brought To You By posted:
it's a specialization/manipulation effect that prompts your actions such that you end up in right locations for interesting things to happen not that nen users necessarily understand the specific functions of their abilities either
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Jul 4, 2020 07:36
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the only real mistakes meruem made were killing his mother (in that he later regretted it), underestimating humans, and maybe restricting pouf's surveillance inside the palace. meruem was perfectly capable of using a more subtle strategy if he had known it was necessary. it's just that he never really had a reason to question the idea that he was the supreme living organism that he was born with.
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Jul 4, 2020 07:39
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Brought To You By posted:It's not a question of restrictions it's a matter of what is actually possible using nen. This is like someone telling me that Ai grant wishes using nen which I disagree with because it goes beyond what I assume nen can accomplish. Specialization is a wildcard category but this isn't jojo, I don't treat fate as something malleable to a nen user. You can revive yourself via nen in at least 3 different varying ways and you think luck can't be controlled via nen?
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Jul 4, 2020 08:13
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I have a much harder time swallowing "Takes X years off your life" abilities in any medium I read so I dunno what it's doing in HxH tbh...
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Jul 4, 2020 09:36
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Kild posted:You can revive yourself via nen in at least 3 different varying ways and you think luck can't be controlled via nen? Yeah, I’m not getting how this is confusing either. The cards only work within that island, the functions are maintained by the creator, there are a lot of overlapping and complex rules which as we know makes Nen stronger. The only way the cards work off the island is if you clear the game which is really difficult to do. If you think this or manipulating luck within the game is somehow out of the realm of possibility in a series that has multiple people who are able to see the future and come back from the dead ( with strict conditions that require them to leave themselves vulnerable or not know the information they’ve seen) , then you aren’t paying attention.
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Jul 4, 2020 10:01
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Asuron posted:Yeah, I’m not getting how this is confusing either. Well their hangup is having the card affect luck outside the game but if it works in the game it can work outside the game.
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Jul 4, 2020 10:12
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