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goddamnedtwisto posted:There's also a cultural thing - apart from WW2 we've never had identity papers (and even then they weren't universal), and it's something we associate with authoritarianism, something the British public almost universally dislikes (while demanding people get 10 years for frowning near a picture of Churchill). That's funny because the Great British Empire never had a problem making the people in colonies walk around with ID cards.
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Jul 4, 2020 00:21
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Kin posted:When it comes to the 4 day week thing does that also result in a 20% reduction in pay? No, the whole point is 4 day week and no change in pay. Its people who work hourly or daily who could be losing out, so they will need to compensated fairly as well.
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Jul 4, 2020 00:24
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Z the IVth posted:That's funny because the Great British Empire never had a problem making the people in colonies walk around with ID cards. So it is accurately associated with authoritarianism by the british, then 
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Jul 4, 2020 00:25
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Kin posted:When it comes to the 4 day week thing does that also result in a 20% reduction in pay? It shouldn't have to (most study's of 5 -> 4 day work weeks show no real drop in productivity for non-manual work) but it probably would (that's capitalism!)
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Jul 4, 2020 00:27
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While I'm drunk posting I should make sure to point out that minimum wage was only introduced in 1998, 22 years ago, under Blair. Yet today it is enshrined to such an extent that even the tories have to pander the voting populace by increasing it. This shares a lot of parallels with the earlier talk about Irish water nationalisation, and is one of the reasons I truly believe that having a government with the balls to ram Universal Credit / Services through would make a long lasting change. Shame we've got Keir instead.
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Jul 4, 2020 00:27
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goddamnedtwisto posted:There *is* electoral fraud in the UK. Voter ID will do nothing to prevent it. did you just skip over the "large-scale" in my original post or what
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Jul 4, 2020 00:28
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Julio Cruz posted:did you just skip over the "large-scale" in my original post or what I think the point was that gerrymandering and voter suppression is a form of electoral fraud. 
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Jul 4, 2020 00:30
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Also postal vote fraud has historically been a thing but obviously ID cards wouldn't help with that.
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Jul 4, 2020 00:34
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RockyB posted:I think the point was that gerrymandering and voter suppression is a form of electoral fraud. Gerrymandering isn't fraud. Voter suppression may be, depending on the type of suppression, but the ones that are illegal (voter harassment and intimidation, tampering with electronic voting machines, etc) aren't widespread in the UK. Nor is postal vote fraud. Julio Cruz fucked around with this message at 00:51 on Jul 4, 2020 |
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Jul 4, 2020 00:37
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Julio Cruz posted:did you just skip over the "large-scale" in my original post or what How large-scale do you want? It flipped the Tower Hamlets mayoral election and multiple council seats up and down the country, and a few thousand votes in the right places would have given Corbyn a decent working majority in 2017. The point is not to deny electoral fraud happens, because there's definitive proof it does, and it does affect election outcomes even if only at local levels (that we know of), but to point out that personation - the type of fraud Voter ID is supposed to stop, where someone votes in-person multiple times under different identities - is *not* how any of these cases happened and in fact would probably be impossible to do at even the smallest scale without a massive risk of discovery, unlike postal fraud.
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Jul 4, 2020 00:58
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Gets worse dot com: Is this the first time in mainstream this has been mentioned? (Article is from April but I've not seen it before). I wish they'd make it clear that the staffers were anti-Corbyn staff as the public have no reason to know that most being oblivious to internal Labour stuff. https://twitter.com/PhillipsBarrie/status/1279147347121971202?s=20
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Jul 4, 2020 01:19
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Kin posted:When it comes to the 4 day week thing does that also result in a 20% reduction in pay? I do four in five which is great for wfh. you switch on your laptop at 8am when you get up and log off at 6pm. having an extra 24hrs a week to spend money with no distractions is not a problem either. i just go for a drive to see family or spend the day painting or reading
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Jul 4, 2020 01:42
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Turns out I haven't read the capitalism.png thread since November 2019 and now I get to be depressed at all the optimism all over again.
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Jul 4, 2020 02:07
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Jaeluni Asjil posted:When I was last in full-time permanent employment, I was in the office 9 hours a day and my daily commute was typically 3.5-4h (from Walthamstow to East Croydon) on public transport and most of it standing on crowded hot tubes and trains. Then I had to do work when I got home and on weekends. My Saturday afternoons were devoted to 3+ hours catching up on sleep - I would turn off mobiles, unplug landlines, dim the lights and pray to god noone rang my doorbell as I couldn't silence that. I was bitter and resentful if anyone wanted to do anything on a Saturday afternoon! Yeah, I went through a period of doing 10 hour shifts order picking in a warehouse, with a 1 hour public transport journey each way. At the end of each shift, I was shattered. I guess I could have spent the remainder of my waking hours having a healthy salad, doing a yoga session and then working on some intellectual hobby but in reality, all I cared about by then was having a big, greasy, salty meal and then slumping in front of the tv with a couple of beers until it was time to go to sleep. Middle-class people love to complain about how 'busy' they always are but if you've got the time and energy once your day's work is done to get on with cultural and creative stuff, then you must have things pretty easy, comparatively.
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Jul 4, 2020 05:57
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RockyB posted:having a government with the balls to ram Universal Credit / Services through would make a long lasting change. I think this is *why* we've got Kier too.
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Jul 4, 2020 06:58
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RockyB posted:While I'm drunk posting I should make sure to point out that minimum wage was only introduced in 1998, 22 years ago, under Blair. Yet today it is enshrined to such an extent that even the tories have to pander the voting populace by increasing it. You have to recall the politics of the minimum wage before the 1990s - trade union attitudes to it were always ambivalent; it was only after the fall of the hard left did the party begin to embrace it under the newly-returned Labour right (since Labour Conference 1986). On one hand, a higher national minimum reduces the threat of substitution with unskilled labour. On the other hand, if minimums are set by national statute rather than collective agreement, then why support unions and pay union dues to lobby for higher minimums - the union is effectively irrelevant to the process, especially if it is not a key player in the politics of setting higher levels. Many continental models run on national collective agreements negotiated by unions instead, after all. This model was what trade unions envisioned moving towards in the late 1980s, as it became clear that the UK public found overt displays of confrontational power repellent (or, at least, did not find it entirely objectionable if they were brutally crushed, even if they might build a monument to the losers afterwards). Instead, unions needed to push for whatever institutional powers they could get. Instead of a collective or tripartite model, however, New Labour eventually pushed the minimum wage 1) on the messaging of 'Making Work Pay', and 2) set by a nonpartisan technocratic committee (the Low Pay Commission) with exactly zero representatives from organised labour. TUC Conference 1998 called for a minimum of £4.60. The CBI called for £3.20. The LPC eventually opted for £3.60. This is what the unions won in return for meekly embracing New Labour's vision of the unions as key players in employee procedural justice - as your full-time legal representation and career advisor - but nothing more. This open quid pro quo of telling labour orgs - as a Labour selling point - that the party would continue to diminish their role in return for entrenching certain concessions lasted all the way through to Miliband (of course the power base empowered in return - the rank and file that delivered Corbyn - was completely unforeseen by left and right alike; that's another story) As far as a historical analogies go, the interesting question is what assurances one could give to make universal services credible, just to get the foot in the door. Some advocates on the basic income side link it to the 'independent fiscal institutions' concept, which probably appeals to the Germanic love affair with automatic stabilizers. ronya fucked around with this message at 08:36 on Jul 4, 2020 |
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Jul 4, 2020 07:23
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When you've lost even the New York times. That high court ruling makes sense based on the government but gently caress sake guaido is a joke https://twitter.com/SamAdlerBell/st...ingawful.com%2F https://twitter.com/JebSprague/stat...ingawful.com%2F
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Jul 4, 2020 08:56
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Good news for Guyana at least then.
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Jul 4, 2020 09:53
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I know that there are a lot of cat owners in this thread, so I figured that they should see this. I certainly agree with it. https://twitter.com/iresimpsonsfans/status/1279176555466559493?s=19 (Bonus praxis points to the creator for finding so many shocked cat faces, and a cat face that screams EvilCapatalistFatCat.jpg )
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Jul 4, 2020 10:03
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Lol https://twitter.com/Otto_English/status/1279343314878201856?s=19
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Jul 4, 2020 10:17
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blunt posted:It shouldn't have to (most study's of 5 -> 4 day work weeks show no real drop in productivity for non-manual work) but it probably would (that's capitalism!) wasn't there a study that showed most people outside of like frontline healthcare and public services like waste collection are only productive in their jobs for a total of 2 days out of 5 anyway? the rest is taken up with daydreaming, reading the internet, team meetings, slacking off, etc etc. if capitalists really cared about profit above all else a 5 day week is counter-intuitive on its face, and pushing to make people work longer hours is absurd. so it seems pretty self evident the function of work is social control above even profit in this period of history.
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Jul 4, 2020 10:18
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Bullshit Jobs is pretty good proof that we've already automated a lot of the work but somehow managed to convince everyone to keep coming in. That might change very soon though...
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Jul 4, 2020 10:21
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Well the barbers near me have opened so I guess lockdown is fully ended
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Jul 4, 2020 10:35
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Just seen the front page of the Telegraph https://twitter.com/hendopolis/status/1279154936547246081?s=20 Some photo that.
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Jul 4, 2020 10:37
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I don't buy that Labour introducing ID cards would have helped prevent the Windrush problems. It would just have brought it forward (or back, as I like to call it), being a sort of hostile environment by default, assuming you need the card to access healthcare, housing, other essential services. The only way it would have worked is if it had been purely declaratory (is that a word?), so everyone in the country says "ID card please" and gets one, combined with outreach to people who might fall through the cracks, and a massive grace period where you can still get services without one. And good luck getting that first bit past the tabloids.
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Jul 4, 2020 10:38
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 https://twitter.com/devisridhar/status/1279310983081713671
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Jul 4, 2020 10:44
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Bobstar posted:I don't buy that Labour introducing ID cards would have helped prevent the Windrush problems. It would just have brought it forward (or back, as I like to call it), being a sort of hostile environment by default, assuming you need the card to access healthcare, housing, other essential services.
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Jul 4, 2020 10:44
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holy poo poo inadequate swimmer lmao https://twitter.com/gumby4christ/status/1278744533145092096
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Jul 4, 2020 10:49
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And just as it looks like Scotland has it mostly undercontrol people desperate to go to the pub will bring it back from England. Really should close the border 
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Jul 4, 2020 10:49
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gh0stpinballa posted:wasn't there a study that showed most people outside of like frontline healthcare and public services like waste collection are only productive in their jobs for a total of 2 days out of 5 anyway? the rest is taken up with daydreaming, reading the internet, team meetings, slacking off, etc etc. if capitalists really cared about profit above all else a 5 day week is counter-intuitive on its face, and pushing to make people work longer hours is absurd. so it seems pretty self evident the function of work is social control above even profit in this period of history. Well obviously. The point of jobs isn't productivity, it's misery.
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Jul 4, 2020 10:50
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Jose posted:holy poo poo inadequate swimmer lmao Remember that 727s were popular with certain kinds of people for having a door you could open in-flight.
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Jul 4, 2020 10:53
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thespaceinvader posted:Well obviously. The point of jobs isn't productivity, it's misery. "Know your place pleb" Anyway, unrelated, here's the synopsis for a play someone funded after watching Hamilton & hating it. https://twitter.com/ldrinkh20/status/1279150049302392833?s=20
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Jul 4, 2020 10:55
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Darth Walrus posted:Remember that 727s were popular with certain kinds of people for having a door you could open in-flight. i know i call him CIA a lot but i don't think brown moses has killed anyone
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Jul 4, 2020 10:59
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Ms Adequate posted:My bestie just moved to 4 day weeks with longer shifts (think she does 10 hours days now but not sure) and she prefers that, because she's one of those people who when they have a 'thing' happen in a day occupies their minds as that day's, well, 'thing'. She can't go out and do something fun after a work shift, the day's used up. The nurses in my department at work have switched to 12 hour day shifts from 8 hour shifts (due to COVID but they've been asking for it for years). I think not working set days and working weekends makes a massive difference to how attractive this is. There's a huge impact on childcare as well.
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Jul 4, 2020 11:06
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thespaceinvader posted:Well obviously. The point of jobs isn't productivity, it's misery. last week they installed a new update on our systems and it locked all of us out of our laptops. so we all of us had to call IT and reset everything. the update itself appears to have done nothing to improve the functionality of our systems or anything. the whole point was to allow a manager to say they upgraded our systems, invent busy work out of whole cloth for IT, and give us something to do to kill time.
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Jul 4, 2020 11:08
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forkboy84 posted:"Know your place pleb" An Independence Day Carol?
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Jul 4, 2020 11:13
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Jose posted:holy poo poo inadequate swimmer lmao Matthew Calamari is the name of a mafia bodyguard from a really poo poo airport thriller, IMO.
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Jul 4, 2020 11:22
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https://twitter.com/CampaignTim/status/1279161037573574659?s=20 Westminster Tory doesn't seem to know what a toilet is. Or that building a urinal outside without anywhere to wash your hands IN THE MIDDLE OF A PANDEMIC is loving stupid
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Jul 4, 2020 11:24
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Ehh I sorta disagree with it being stupid. People are gonna drink and i've already seen tons of people just pissing in the street this last week without the pubs even being open. When i say tons I mean 4 but that's already 4 more people than i'd ever usually see pissing in public
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Jul 4, 2020 11:36
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Darth Walrus posted:Remember that 727s were popular with certain kinds of people for having a door you could open in-flight. I know this is suddenly getting traction in conspiracy theory circles (presumably because someone discovered the tale of DB Cooper) but it'd be about the shittest way of covertly disposing of bodies you can imagine. For a start you can't open the airstair at all if the cabin is pressurised above outside air pressure - even if you defeat the interlocks, opening it would turn the person doing it into pink mist and completely gently caress up the eardrums of anyone inside the plane, and carries a risk of massive structural damage to the plane. Also opening the airstair at any speed much above stall speed completely unsettles the handling of the plane, and anything above ~250kts would just rip it off. This limits you to a very narrow altitude and speed envelope to dump your bodies, and one that would *definitely* attract the attention of any air traffic controllers in the area (as well as the DEA, who look for planes doing that sort of speed and altitude because it's used by people dumping drugs out for retrieval). Also there's a mechanical device - the Cooper Vane - that sits at the end of the airstair and holds it closed at any speed above about 50kts. If that were missing or disconnected it would be blatantly obvious to any mechanic or FAA inspector. Now of course they can say "Well all of these people can be silenced", but we're talking hundreds and hundreds of people over the years, and Epstein literally had a private island to hide the bodies on, as well as planes and helicopters and thousands of square miles of ocean, all of which seem much simpler and therefore more likely for a conspiracy that didn't even bother to hide flight plans and passenger manifests. There are in fact lots of jets whose doors can be safely opened in-flight *in that non-pressurised, low-speed envelope*, the point of Cooper's selection of the 727 for his escape was that the airstair gave him a safe platform from which to parachute without risking hitting the wing/engine or getting obliterated by the wake of both. If you don't care if the person you're throwing out lives, the back door of any jet will do the trick just fine. FWIW the reason why the 727 is used so often as a private jet by sleazy 80s guys is because so many of them were retired from airline use in the 80s and 90s meaning that for quite a while it was the smallest, cheapest jet that could cross the Atlantic. Boringly, that's all it is.
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Jul 4, 2020 11:41
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