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Mr. Fix It posted:i am sympathetic to those who view it as a presage to military intervention or something similar. who?
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Jul 4, 2020 02:43
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ey who remembers the title of that banned hk film about hk 2050 where canto is gone and the glorious four tone mandarin is enforced
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Jul 4, 2020 02:43
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Booty Pageant posted:ey who remembers the title of that banned hk film about hk 2050 where canto is gone and the glorious four tone mandarin is enforced it was called ten years and it was released 5 years ago lol
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Jul 4, 2020 02:43
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BrainDance posted:For sure, people took the bait in here and it was bad. It's like arguing with a white nationalist when they're trying to get a big reaction out of you so they can paint you a certain way. It doesn't matter if it was bait. Ironic fascism is still fascism and it needs to be challenged and mocked whenever it appears, regardless of whether or not they think they're "owning the libs" by outing themselves as a piece of human garbage.
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Jul 4, 2020 02:44
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BrainDance posted:For sure, people took the bait in here and it was bad. It's like arguing with a white nationalist when they're trying to get a big reaction out of you so they can paint you a certain way. Fojar38 posted:Much like how you'll never convince Nazis that the Holocaust happened despite overwhelming evidence including documentation by the Nazis themselves. Unironic nazism is still nazism, but mirror the political compass and its A-OK
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Jul 4, 2020 02:45
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The situation in Xinjiang is bad but everything else about PRC is good. At worst I'd say it's a 70-30 split of good:bad.
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Jul 4, 2020 02:46
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Mantis42 posted:The situation in Xinjiang is bad but everything else about PRC is good. At worst I'd say it's a 70-30 split of good:bad. gently caress off, fascist.
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Jul 4, 2020 02:47
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Mr. Fix It posted:i guess you 100% believe everything you're writing here and i guess that the worst of what you're alleging could be happening, but i think it just invites tankies posting "[CITATION NEEDED]" and an ensuing argument about the bias of sources and everyone calling everyone else propaganda consuming and spreading stooges. "there are concentration camps and the CCP says as much" should be enough for a reasonable and realistic response to be formulated. economic sanctions aren't entirely non-violent, but China's entry into the WTO and global trade was predicated on the idea that it would liberalize them and make them accountable to world opinion. i think that makes those sanctions fair game. trumpeting about an ongoing "Nazi-style" genocide of the Uighurs without exceptional evidence is reckless and i am sympathetic to those who view it as a presage to military intervention or something similar. The Nazis didn't start the genocide with extermination camps. They started by rounding people up into ghettos and work camps where they could exploit and victimize them. This included forced abortions, sterilization, re-education, and neglect combined with murder to ensure the eventual destruction of the targeted groups. It was meant to be a gradual genocide. The extermination part most people think of was done when it started looking like they might lose the war. What China is doing is extremely "Nazi-style" genocide. Warbadger fucked around with this message at 02:53 on Jul 4, 2020 |
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Jul 4, 2020 02:48
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Fojar38 posted:There is no source that tankies will accept. Zenz's research and evidence is very strong, but it doesn't matter because it doesn't conform to the tankie world view. Much like how you'll never convince Nazis that the Holocaust happened despite overwhelming evidence including documentation by the Nazis themselves. my point is there is no real necessity to proving the worst of the alleged abuses. there's enough that's beyond debate to make a solid case for sanctions. and I forgive anyone that doesn't accept the research of someone who "co-authored the book Worthy to Escape: Why All Believers Will Not Be Raptured Before the Tribulation which links modern trends, including gender equality and bans on corporal punishment, to the power of the Antichrist" as above reproach.
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Jul 4, 2020 02:49
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Mr. Fix It posted:my point is there is no real necessity to proving the worst of the alleged abuses. there's enough that's beyond debate to make a solid case for sanctions. and I forgive anyone that doesn't accept the research of someone who "co-authored the book Worthy to Escape: Why All Believers Will Not Be Raptured Before the Tribulation which links modern trends, including gender equality and bans on corporal punishment, to the power of the Antichrist" as above reproach. yeah i completely agree, there's been so many sexual assault allegations from women on twitter lately, and ALL of them have no evidence they were raped its all accusation without proof that would not hold up under the rule of law just like xinjiang genocide who's to say we can really believe women like logan and ashli over manly men like richard kyanka Kill All Cops fucked around with this message at 02:54 on Jul 4, 2020 |
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Jul 4, 2020 02:52
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Kill All Cops posted:yeah i completely agree, there's been so many sexual assault allegations from women on twitter lately, and ALL of them have no evidence they were raped that's not at all what i'm saying and I will not engage with your ghoulish analogy.
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Jul 4, 2020 02:55
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Mr. Fix It posted:that's not at all what i'm saying and I will not engage with your ghoulish analogy. exactly, go gently caress off back to cspam
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Jul 4, 2020 02:56
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answer this before u leave, coward
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Jul 4, 2020 02:58
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Fojar38 posted:It doesn't matter if it was bait. Ironic fascism is still fascism and it needs to be challenged and mocked whenever it appears, regardless of whether or not they think they're "owning the libs" by outing themselves as a piece of human garbage. That's true, and I'm more than up for arguing it. But it's not useful to feed them the lines they're already prepared for. You have to avoid giving them ammunition or you've already lost, since they're not arguing in good faith, they're trying to get that exact reaction out of you so they can ramble off their list of "aha!"s. It's almost a cliche at the point, because 2020 has gone bonkers, but it's like Sartre and Anti Semite and Jew. I don't think it's ironic, and I'm not saying that. Ironic and bait aren't the same thing. But that kind of reaction gives them room to deflect, and that's what was going on.
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Jul 4, 2020 03:00
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Mr. Fix It posted:i guess you 100% believe everything you're writing here and i guess that the worst of what you're alleging could be happening, but i think it just invites tankies posting "[CITATION NEEDED]" and an ensuing argument about the bias of sources and everyone calling everyone else propaganda consuming and spreading stooges. "there are concentration camps and the CCP says as much" should be enough for a reasonable and realistic response to be formulated. economic sanctions aren't entirely non-violent, but China's entry into the WTO and global trade was predicated on the idea that it would liberalize them and make them accountable to world opinion. i think that makes those sanctions fair game. trumpeting about an ongoing "Nazi-style" genocide of the Uighurs without exceptional evidence is reckless and i am sympathetic to those who view it as a presage to military intervention or something similar. Read the articles posted in both threads over the last 6 months. I'm doing your or their research for them. And it doesn't matter because they will insist the sky is green and 2+2=5 all day long because at the end of the day they just think not America =good and don't put anymore thought into it. The Chinese government's own data show sterilization numbers and the Beijing has admitted to both the camps and assigning part members to "sleep next to" the wives of men who have been locked up for months at a time, saying that pairing them up will discourage extremism. China's government claims that the organ harvesting isn't happening to any prisoners that didn't consent ANYMORE but you know you can't really consent when you're locked up. The numbers of transplants happening suggest that they are in fact doing it on a much larger scale than they admit to. Economic sanctions aren't a military invasion, which is what they are accusing non-tankies of supporting.
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Jul 4, 2020 03:23
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Grand Fromage posted:Even if you're narrowly defining racism as the power structure thing, it takes some real galaxy brain to claim that white people control the power structure within China. At the same time the colonial history between western powers and Asia makes it a complicated subject. White people absolutely still have white privilege in China, even if we are also subject to stereotyping and discrimination. That (the privilege, not the discrimination) might be invisible to privileged white expats, but is commonly acknowledged and criticized (again, the privilege, not the discrimination) among Chinese people. Vasukhani posted:I don't think the oppression of Uyghurs is actually "ethnic" per se. Much like the Soviet Union the PRC kinda bills itself as the protector of minority nationalities, and has definitely done things to reify those nationalities and make them more real. The issue I think is that Islam presents a source of authority outside of the CCP, its the same fundamental issue they have with Fulan Gong. I think the thing is that those are traditional socialist policies that, as China has been moving away from socialism, are becoming less and less important. “Affirmative action” programs, that allow minorities to add points on their entrance exams, are almost universally disliked, even reviled, as far as I can tell. As far as I can tell, it’s really hard to get accurate, objective research or information on the actual picture of Chinese public opinion. It’s basically never mentioned in English media and is limited to specific, state-sanctioned topics in Chinese. If anyone has good resources on this, I’d love to see them. But my personal experience (I’ve lived in Shanghai for 14 years) is that CHUD type views are pervasive in China and are growing more extreme and more common quite rapidly. In the past couple years, the talking point that France has ruined its future by spoiling its racial purity and allowing too many black babies to be born is particularly frequently repeated, for example. After the unrest in 2008, more than one person expressed to me their desire to ethnically cleanse Xinjiang (their words), and dissatisfaction with the government for not doing more to put Uighurs in their place. Claiming that there is no racial element to what’s going on in Xinjiang seems profoundly ignorant to me of what people actually talk about in China. Here’s an article on right wing populism on Zhihu, one of China’s biggest online discussion forums: https://www.researchgate.net/public...politics_online Obviously, it would be reckless to draw too many conclusions about Chinese public discourse from this. But the picture it paints is consistent with my experience, and I suspect the experience of most left leaning people who actually speak and read Chinese and consume Chinese media produced for Chinese people.
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Jul 4, 2020 03:35
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also korea ilbe fuckers everywhere
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Jul 4, 2020 04:36
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Messaged some of the peeps back home. One as expected towed the government line. What disappointed me though was the whataboutism and their "Got mine". I discussed politics with them once, the myth of "Self made/boot straps" hence no surprises. I am not angry at them, I just wish they wouldn't use such horrible arguments. I would have been fine with "We feel safe and nothing is wrong here  ". At least that way I wouldn't worry about them throwing someone under the bus into a system they don't comprehend, even if they don't understand why I messaged them.Others were more receptive. Either way work needs to be done. We need to get the loving NAZI out of SA. Fojar, you should have a stack of other evidence in regard to organ harvesting you posted in a block back in the bad China thread. I think its a couple pages back. Barely needs digging to find, most of these are articles I remember off hand. Even back in 2018 it was pretty drat clear what happened. https://hongkongfp.com/2018/10/24/tear-gas-tasers-textbooks-inside-chinas-xinjiang-internment-camps/ https://twitter.com/AFP/status/1054984213471092737 Slave labour https://hongkongfp.com/2020/03/12/us-lawmakers-seek-ban-imports-xinjiang-china-forced-labour/ Uighurs are literally starving right now https://hongkongfp.com/2020/02/27/uighur-activists-say-chinas-coronavirus-measures-causing-widespread-hunger/ Camps hold at least 3 million as of a year ago up fromt the original 1 million. https://www.reuters.com/article/us-usa-china-concentrationcamps/china-putting-minority-muslims-in-concentration-camps-us-says-idUSKCN1S925K Canada has just pulled the extradition agreement with HK. https://hongkongfp.com/2020/07/03/canada-suspends-extradition-with-hong-kong-to-protest-china-security-law/ Lets not forget the two Canadian hostages. https://hongkongfp.com/2020/06/19/china-charges-canadians-michael-kovrig-and-michael-spavor-with-spying-18-months-after-arrest/ Australia is going after Chinese spies. Australia is in an undeclared trade war with China. https://www.bbc.com/news/world-aust...reporting-story This guy is very interesting critic of China. He helped build a chunk of the legal system in China that got hijacked. https://hongkongfp.com/2020/06/30/e...-a-better-life/ His Blog https://www.jeromecohen.net/jerrys-blog From the current article: quote:To me, more serious is the range of problems arising from the inevitable need to interpret the collusion with foreign forces provision. These are not merely interesting theoretical questions but of the utmost practical significance to foreign and Taiwan scholars who cooperate with HK academics, lawyers, NGOs and democratic political figures. Do I dare to host Martin Lee, Jimmy Lai, Dennis Kwok or Anson Chan (if she returns to the scene) again at the Council on Foreign Relations in New York? The legal danger will be theirs; I will probably be mentioned only as an unindicted co-conspirator! I highly recommend Hong Kong Free Press https://hongkongfp.com if you want to keep up with Hong Kong, I have been sending $$$ since their founding. China Media Project https://chinamediaproject.org/ is very good at analysing Chinese messaging. Not sure how long they will last given how fast and heavy they have gone after people on the streets. https://hongkongfp.com/2020/07/04/when-will-they-come-for-journalists-hong-kong-press-freedom-under-the-new-national-security-law/
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Jul 4, 2020 04:40
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back in 2016 i remember hearing about some boys from xinjiang rolled in by train into guangzhou and immediately started terrorising the station, but were p much neutralised as quick as they got off i think around that time was also r/china peaking with some kinda inferiority complex i miss the china is cool and good rhetoric and now all we have left is america abused you as a kid and you're not chinese so you won't understand rhetoric
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Jul 4, 2020 04:43
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Found several of the blocksFojar38 posted:https://muslimcouncil.org.hk/muslim...commit-suicide/ Fojar38 posted:Also, if you can read Chinese, you can read the original unmodified Xinjiang Operating Manual from the Chinese government that was leaked to the International Consortium of Investigative Journalists here: Fojar38 posted:My reversal on China didn't start until about 2012 or so because that's when things started to get iffy wrt Chinese nationalism and "When China Rules The World" rhetoric
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Jul 4, 2020 04:50
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Mantis42 posted:The situation in Xinjiang is bad but everything else about PRC is good. Like the melamine in the baby formula?
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Jul 4, 2020 05:07
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China rules, baby! Awoooooo!
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Jul 4, 2020 05:12
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oohhboy posted:Found several of the blocks The thing I remember most about these posts is nobody reading the links and me getting a sixer
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Jul 4, 2020 05:13
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Kill All Cops posted:exactly, go gently caress off back to cspam Your belief that western communists “tankies” (lmao) support concentration camps is almost as stupid as your belief that western communists support a state with enough billionaires second only to our own, bud
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Jul 4, 2020 05:14
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i have been thinking about makin a lollin at the prc thread in cspam for a while
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Jul 4, 2020 05:20
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A4R8 posted:Your belief that western communists “tankies” (lmao) support concentration camps is almost as stupid as your belief that western communists support a state with enough billionaires second only to our own, bud One can be a communist without being a tankie. It's pretty easy, actually. Don't support brutal authoritarians just because they happen to be waving a red flag around. Simple! Heithinn Grasida posted:At the same time the colonial history between western powers and Asia makes it a complicated subject. White people absolutely still have white privilege in China, even if we are also subject to stereotyping and discrimination. That (the privilege, not the discrimination) might be invisible to privileged white expats, but is commonly acknowledged and criticized (again, the privilege, not the discrimination) among Chinese people. Whites are the privileged ones among foreigners, yes. Though all foreigners are held as inherently inferior. But that privilege is not remotely the same as being the power-holding ethnicity in China, which is the claim made when someone says that only whites can be racist. If you want to argue racism is only about power structures and which race holds them, then clearly racism in China is the property of the Han. There is no possible case to be made for any other ethnic group having power there.
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Jul 4, 2020 05:20
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oohhboy posted:Found several of the blocks Might pay to pin those to the OP.
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Jul 4, 2020 05:20
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This is a bit of a non-sequitur but I find it extremely telling Wikileaks and DDoSecrets want nothing to do with any of the above.Fojar38 posted:It doesn't matter if it was bait. Ironic fascism is still fascism and it needs to be challenged and mocked whenever it appears, regardless of whether or not they think they're "owning the libs" by outing themselves as a piece of human garbage. Shumagorath fucked around with this message at 05:26 on Jul 4, 2020 |
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Jul 4, 2020 05:22
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A4R8 posted:Your belief that western communists “tankies” (lmao) support concentration camps is almost as stupid as your belief that western communists support a state with enough billionaires second only to our own, bud The basis for this belief is all the self-proclaimed "communists" openly stating that they support both of those things though. If your argument is "they aren't communists" I happen to agree, as they are ideologically fascists. The problem is that fascists have been co-opting leftist rhetoric for over half a century now to the point that leftists parties that actually want to win over the public avoid the word like the plague.
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Jul 4, 2020 05:26
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Fojar38 posted:The basis for this belief is all the self-proclaimed "communists" openly stating that they support both of those things though. China is communist the same way america is a democracy i.e. not at all Just two capitalist states fighting over who gets to gently caress the world harder
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Jul 4, 2020 05:29
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A4R8 posted:China is communist the same way america is a democracy i.e. not at all 
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Jul 4, 2020 05:33
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America is very much a democracy, in fact it's a democracy to the point that sometimes it does extremely self-defeating stupid poo poo like electing Donald Trump to high office, because about 40% of the population is irredeemably stupid and votes accordingly. The advantage though is that it has separation of powers, rule of law, a strong civil society, and legally mandated elections every two years. In fact, it could be argued that one of the problems with American governance is that elections happen so frequently that politicians are basically always campaigning. Judges being elected at local levels could also be argued creates political bias in lower courts because they need to make decisions on the basis of needing to be re-elected as well. There is a reason why the democratic world has been consistently siding with the USA for the past century despite the fact that the USA isn't perfect and is often really dumb.
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Jul 4, 2020 05:33
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A4R8 posted:China is communist the same way america is a democracy i.e. not at all I agree with this by the way so I don’t want you to get it twisted. Why then where there people trying to muddy the water what China was doing was not a concentration camp and even worst where things posted about that they aren’t that bad. This is why people are pissed off in this thread and I see people just dancing around it.
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Jul 4, 2020 05:34
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Heithinn Grasida posted:But my personal experience (I’ve lived in Shanghai for 14 years) is that CHUD type views are pervasive in China and are growing more extreme and more common quite rapidly. In the past couple years, the talking point that France has ruined its future by spoiling its racial purity and allowing too many black babies to be born is particularly frequently repeated, for example. After the unrest in 2008, more than one person expressed to me their desire to ethnically cleanse Xinjiang (their words), and dissatisfaction with the government for not doing more to put Uighurs in their place.
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Jul 4, 2020 05:36
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It's too bad that tankies couldn't have a normal and healthy relationship with their parents and possibly even a significant other. Maybe if they could have at least one of those things they wouldn't be so angry all the time and seeking negative attention. Maybe just hire an escort? Know what it's like to have sex, then it won't be such a huge obstacle/object of shame in your life and you can start to heal, move on, and interact with society in a healthier manner. Maybe even help to change society for the better instead of typing how great genocide is?
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Jul 4, 2020 05:37
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Megillah Gorilla posted:I vote ooohboy.
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Jul 4, 2020 05:37
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I second the nomination of ohhboooyyyy for thread IK
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Jul 4, 2020 05:46
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Yeah gently caress it he put up with the suit meme, he's earned it.
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Jul 4, 2020 05:55
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He's got my vote.
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Jul 4, 2020 06:01
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So long as it ain't me.
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Jul 4, 2020 06:33
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