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Josef bugman posted:This just seems like "no smoke without fire". CR has been involved in a lot of fires, if I understand this phrase correctly. It's fanbase is big so it's going to have a shittier worst 10%, but how many red flags do you need to waived away to still be a CR loyal supporter? There's at least the Wendy's thing, multiple cast leaving under a shadow, silence on Mearls and supporting 5e, some crowdfunding thing, and gently caress I don't really know anything about CR except that they're always loving something up and there's never a shortage of very loyal fans assuring everyone it didn't mean anything. E: The only time they ever come across my radar is in the context of them getting excused for poo poo. moths fucked around with this message at 20:15 on Jul 7, 2020 |
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Jul 7, 2020 20:12
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Countblanc posted:Maybe I'm just cynical, but in my experience people who barely actually touch the rules in D&D are less likely to move to indie systems, not more. It's the same way with a lot of groups. They'll have entrenched house rules or "we just like it this way" styles and they rarely interact or inspect the rules closely. If it works, even if they're actually ignoring 90% of the rules, they don't feel any impetus to change systems. Which is fine, play how you wanna play but it sucks that the biggest RPG right now has so many problems that a lot of people don't ever look at or even know of.
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Jul 7, 2020 20:13
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Oh, and the harassment I've been getting from Critters spawns from a tweet I made back in May, in response to Mercer refusing to say anything about Mearls. You can check it out here in the replies! (cw for some cisnormative bigotry) https://twitter.com/meinberg13/status/1263959110858481668?s=20
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Jul 7, 2020 20:25
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The sources of their success is definitely going to be a factor, as someone said they come from anime and games, whereas the McElroys, while tied to gaming, are better known for their intrafamily comedy podcasts. The game-adjacent McElroys are also from games journalism, which is going to carry over a different audience for both them and FatT than people who are excited for game and anime performers. There are measures that can be taken early on to try to foster a certain audience, like heavy moderation on Twitch (and I've seen some people even hire people to moderate YouTube comments), but CR already started with thousands of viewers real early on and they were part of a bigger company that would be in charge of that stuff. It isn't impossible for them to do anything about their audience, but it is going to be harder because it's pretty well formed at this point and the actual tools they have are limited. E: ^that's rough, I'm genuinely shocked I never got any poo poo for a big thread I made awhile ago criticizing their silence on Mearls but I guess I'm just too small fish for even their fans. Trojan Kaiju fucked around with this message at 20:33 on Jul 7, 2020 |
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Jul 7, 2020 20:31
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moths posted:CR has been involved in a lot of fires, if I understand this phrase correctly. The Wendy's thing loving sucked, they did scrub it from the internet, and issue an apology. But yeah that poo poo was hosed. They had one cast member leave early on, and like he was asked to leave because of valid reasons you'd ask anyone to leave a group.(Cheating and making other cast members at the table uncomfortable) Yeah they shouldn't be silent on Mearls, I don't think it'd do much but they should do it none the less and they probably should or could play a better game I suppose. The crowdfunding thing was just them running a quite honestly stupidly high funded kickstarter.
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Jul 7, 2020 20:33
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Someone who was trying to get me to watch it showed me this as an example of how good and woke and inclusive and funny CR is: What's going on here? Why are they at the table in blackface? Did these two get fired? (Even if I wanted to watch other people play D&D for four hours, everyone who tries to tell to watch me CR proceeds to show me the most hosed up garbage, I stg.)
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Jul 7, 2020 20:33
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moths posted:CR has been involved in a lot of fires, if I understand this phrase correctly. So the general thing is "One of the cast is a piece of poo poo and they asked him to leave", "You are a big thing and should do more" and "Corporate tie in is bad". Like the last two, defo agree on. But the weird attitude when it does look as if the people involved are trying is something I dislike. I like CR, I like the cast and find the stories simple but quite fun. I also know that, in a similar position, I can make crappy choices. It's hoping that things improve afterwards or that people can try and change a bit. Sorry, I do realise that this probably isn't the right way to explain things. I do apologise.
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Jul 7, 2020 20:35
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GreenMetalSun posted:Someone who was trying to get me to watch it showed me this as an example of how good and woke and inclusive and funny CR is: The gently caress is this
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Jul 7, 2020 20:37
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GreenMetalSun posted:Someone who was trying to get me to watch it showed me this as an example of how good and woke and inclusive and funny CR is: Not Blackface One of Sam's dumb ad bits https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6Cv_ivF9iwQ
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Jul 7, 2020 20:43
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Josef bugman posted:So the general thing is No, the recurring theme is that all I know about CR is that they've hosed something else up but their fans accept the apology so it's ok. Like, I don't even want to hear how this is acceptable: E: lol moths fucked around with this message at 20:47 on Jul 7, 2020 |
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Jul 7, 2020 20:45
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moths posted:
You're being way to generous, IMHO. EDIT: Whew, thank god it's cool for a dude to paint himself brown if it's for an ad.
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Jul 7, 2020 20:49
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moths posted:No, the recurring theme is that all I know about CR is that they've hosed something else up but their fans accept the apology so it's ok. Okay. Again, sorry.
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Jul 7, 2020 20:51
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GreenMetalSun posted:You're being way to generous, IMHO. It doesn't look brown in the video. It's absolutely 100% very green. I think the photo is just weird. Like, I don't want to say it's been purposely edited to look bad, because I have no idea. But the photo does not look like the video. Just watch the video and see if you think it's racist.
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Jul 7, 2020 20:52
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e: nm
Absurd Alhazred fucked around with this message at 19:59 on Jul 22, 2020 |
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Jul 7, 2020 20:54
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I've not heard of multiple cast leaving under a Shadow, who are the others?
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Jul 7, 2020 20:55
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Assuming for now the photo wasnt edited - which it might be - its probably later in the ep and it started to run/blend Eta: Went and checked and it stays p green through the whole ep on my phone at least so it def looks like someone darkened it deliberately Pocky In My Pocket fucked around with this message at 21:00 on Jul 7, 2020 |
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Jul 7, 2020 20:57
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 I don't know the origin of that original picture but the quality is poo poo (look at his shirt!) and I guess it's been mirrored for some reason?
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Jul 7, 2020 20:58
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Is it an excuse if it's a legitimate misunderstanding and misrepresentation of events? But I'm good I've reached my quota for explanation posts about well off companies that aren't paying me. The replies to that Meinburg tweet are loving wild tho jfc. Fandoms and twitter are the loving worst. Who cares if Matt Mercer faces some tame critisism to that degree. Like there's plenty of slander that people get that I personally don't think they may deserve and I may post about it, on forums but god help me if I ever lose my mind and cape up in someone's twitter mentions. I don't even understand what causes people to do that poo poo.
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Jul 7, 2020 20:59
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I do not watch McCree's D&D Hoedown but I heard they kicked out one guy for being a creep early on. Should there be a specific thread on this topic? I bring this up mostly since this is my own main source of info on WOTC firing black people, etc. and now it is about McCree's D&D Hoedown.
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Jul 7, 2020 21:01
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e: nm
Absurd Alhazred fucked around with this message at 19:59 on Jul 22, 2020 |
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Jul 7, 2020 21:02
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GreenMetalSun posted:You're being way to generous, IMHO. It's not brown, though? In the video it's clearly green with yellow highlights. Looks like someone hosed with the colour balance of the still image to make it look like brownface. Unless those are two difference instances of facepaint, but it looks like they're from the same event. e: lol, beaten.
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Jul 7, 2020 21:03
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Countblanc posted:Maybe I'm just cynical, but in my experience people who barely actually touch the rules in D&D are less likely to move to indie systems, not more. Generally speaking there are two reasons people end up playing D&D but barely touching the rules: (a) they started playing normally and realized the more time they spend engaging with the mechanics the less fun they had, so they slowly phased the mechanics out or (b) they never really wanted to deal with the mechanics, they just wanted to make fighters and wizards with dexterity and wisdom and poo poo and you do that using D&D, right? But they really just wanted to do improv in a fantasy world where someone occasionally rolls a D20 to resolve a dramatic moment. Group (a) is naturally hesitant to move because their experience with mechanics has been a net negative, so they need a strong example of mechanics benefiting gameplay which is very hard to do without direct intervention. Group (b) will not and should not move to anything except freeform RP with a few dice on the table.
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Jul 7, 2020 21:11
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Falstaff posted:It's not brown, though? In the video it's clearly green with yellow highlights. Looks like someone hosed with the colour balance of the still image to make it look like brownface. I take it back then, and it's actually good to know.
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Jul 7, 2020 21:12
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When does an explanation turn into an excuse. Does it always differ from person to person? Or is it something we all have to find ourselves?
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Jul 7, 2020 21:13
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GreenMetalSun posted:Someone who was trying to get me to watch it showed me this as an example of how good and woke and inclusive and funny CR is: brown face issue clarified, if someone showed me this as a reason I need to watch I'd think they're nuts. so many fandoms are completely impenetrable and the members are clueless as to why this is
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Jul 7, 2020 21:14
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Countblanc posted:Maybe I'm just cynical, but in my experience people who barely actually touch the rules in D&D are less likely to move to indie systems, not more. The industry studies I've seen bear out this conclusion. D&D is not an on-road to other TTRPGs in any meaningful way.
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Jul 7, 2020 21:19
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Toshimo posted:The industry studies I've seen bear out this conclusion. D&D is not an on-road to other TTRPGs in any meaningful way. D&D delenda est.
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Jul 7, 2020 21:24
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Cat Face Joe posted:brown face issue clarified, if someone showed me this as a reason I need to watch I'd think they're nuts. so many fandoms are completely impenetrable and the members are clueless as to why this is Every complied 'Watch CR!' post is literally just dozens and dozens of gifs of relatively attractive actors laughing together at a gaming table. Brownface issue clarified, I now bear them no specific ill-will and I just don't have it in me to watch other people play D&D for hours at a time.
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Jul 7, 2020 21:29
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Josef bugman posted:When does an explanation turn into an excuse. So, depends on how you mean excuse. Properly, an excuse is just that. It excuses you. It explains why whatever happened was not your fault. Sometimes an excuse is perfectly valid. "I was legally parked and the other car crashed into me" is an excuse. It's a good one (assuming it's true) because it's you're clearly not responsible for the crash. An explanation is just a "here's why this has happened." It may or may not absolve you of wrongdoing. This can be part of an apology if it accepts fault, or simply be a recounting if events. When people hear excuse, they usually think of poor excuses. These either do not actually absolve you ("I crashed into him because I was on my phone!") or come at a time when excuses of any sort are not appropriate ("We need to get her to a hospital!" "Hey, this crash wasn't my fault!"). So I think what you're really looking for is when does a bad excuse become a good excuse. That's when A) it's appropriate to address fault, and B) when the excuse actually clears the person of wrongdoing.
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Jul 7, 2020 21:34
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At this point there are two seasons of at least 100 episodes that are at minimum 3 hours long. Even as someone who enjoys CR, I wouldn't even recommend the show at least until the third campaign because that's just too much to ask a person to give.
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Jul 7, 2020 21:36
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Josef bugman posted:This just seems like "no smoke without fire". The Hamilton thing is really much more driven by the contingent of people who insist Hamilton is virtuous to like, that it's morally good to like Hamilton. And the critics are concerned with what they see as historical inaccuracies, not in the casting but in whitewashing Hamilton's political goals and actions. He was the most reactionary of the Founding Fathers, in terms of government structure, and more or less a plutocrat who more than anyone else wanted to make sure the wealthy in the new American nation were the ones steering the state. And, y'know, Hamilton is a fun show and I like the music, but these criticisms are valuable. There's also the whole discussion of whether Hamilton the musical similarly tries to understate the whole 'owned slaves' side of the founders, and whether it's a political problem to have founding fathers who, not to put too fine a point on it, enslaved Black people, get represented by extremely talented and attractive Black people making them look cool. That's not something I am going to touch with a ten foot pole, because it's not a conversation I have a place in, but I've seen considered and incisive arguments from both sides. Hamilton is fraught and political and it set out to be that, so I think it's a bad example of a work that shouldn't be considered for moral and political implications.
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Jul 7, 2020 21:37
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I've been rolling a specific thought about actual-plays and systems for a little while and want to try and get it out there to see what others make of it. D&D obviously had the name behind it, but I think its relative crunch compared to the other oft-suggested systems can actually be an advantage. I'll admit a personal bias of favouring more rulesy systems to narrativey ones - tho i do genuinely like both to some degree. I think that in a more defined system, players can do clever stuff with those rules, which can give impressive moments for audiences because the players have jigsawed something together to beat the gm/encounter. And the audience can grasp how the act is impressive But in a more freeform system this can feel less impressive or harder to convey. Does the idea make sense? What do you think?
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Jul 7, 2020 21:39
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loving christ most of you all are reactionary as gently caress.
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Jul 7, 2020 21:41
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e: nm
Absurd Alhazred fucked around with this message at 19:59 on Jul 22, 2020 |
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Jul 7, 2020 21:42
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Arthil posted:loving christ most of you all are reactionary as gently caress. Expand on that?
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Jul 7, 2020 21:43
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Trojan Kaiju posted:At this point there are two seasons of at least 100 episodes that are at minimum 3 hours long. Even as someone who enjoys CR, I wouldn't even recommend the show at least until the third campaign because that's just too much to ask a person to give. If i were to try and get someone into the show, i'd start them with the one-offs and short arc stuff. They've done three honey heist one-shots, a four shorter-episode deadlands show, a call of cthulhu that I havent watched yet, the monsterhearts oneshot. Someone could watch one or two of them and see if they want to watch more by the same rough group of people.
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Jul 7, 2020 21:46
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Josef bugman posted:When does an explanation turn into an excuse. On a structural level apologies are also built to be, by and large, individual to individual, or at least to have a specific target, so any apology aimed in broadcast is going to be dinged up to begin with. You then get the 'lawyer speak apology' we all see, which I imagine is in fact carefully massaged to try and maximize warm fuzzies while avoiding making a concrete and actionable statement that presents the risk of civil penalties ($$) later. In conclusion, apologies have the intrinsic possibility of not being adequate. They present social pressure to accept them, yes, but this is the internet where nobody has to see you react. Even if a given statement meeting all the underlying requirements would satisfy 90% of an audience, that remaining 10% are in isolation from one another -- and could find one another quite easily. So basically the problem is more that an Apology is not the tool best suited for this exact moment. I don't know what is. Absurd Alhazred posted:That doesn't make sense to me because the argument is that actual plays draw people into the game, so the audience wouldn't necessarily know the rules in advance, and would therefore not come in from appreciating clever use of these rules which they don't know. Nessus fucked around with this message at 21:51 on Jul 7, 2020 |
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Jul 7, 2020 21:47
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As the least on-line online person why are Wendys and kickstarter bad now
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Jul 7, 2020 21:59
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Nissin Cup Nudist posted:Why is Wendy's bad other than being a fast food joint Exploitation of it's work force beyond usual fast food levels, alongside other stuff around farmers being underpaid?
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Jul 7, 2020 22:01
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Nissin Cup Nudist posted:As the least on-line online person why are Wendys and kickstarter bad now Wendy's came out with a short RPG thing which was cross-promoted by Critical Role during a break period in their schedule and people called CR out on it.
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Jul 7, 2020 22:02
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