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In the fandom's defence, Griffin was Not Good at running PBTA. I mean, he's a great storyteller but not a great GM, although if you're hosting a podcast it's probably better to be good at the former than the latter.
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Jul 8, 2020 02:33
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Absurd Alhazred posted:That doesn't make sense to me because the argument is that actual plays draw people into the game, so the audience wouldn't necessarily know the rules in advance, and would therefore not come in from appreciating clever use of these rules which they don't know. If its a long campaign people will pick up the rules and/or look up the ststem because they've been enjoying the show. At the moment most of the big APs are d&d so they're not just a system-discovery tool
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Jul 8, 2020 02:36
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Dawgstar posted:Wasn't there something about TAZ losing viewers when they tried to change systems? They changed systems to one they weren't as funny doing and their bit suffered.
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Jul 8, 2020 02:46
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Mystic Mongol posted:They changed systems to one they weren't as funny doing and their bit suffered. A big part of their TAZ shtick was just making stuff up and rolling with it, which is fine. Justin in particular would just pick whatever spells that he couldn't even cast (while everyone gave poo poo to their dad for the same thing) and Travis often lied about his dice rolls for either comedic or dramatic effect. That's harder to do with a PbtA game, much as I still enjoyed Amnesty.
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Jul 8, 2020 02:48
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Alaois posted:I'm aware of the situation but that motherfucker up there said "green blackface" and i really gotta know what's up with their head There was a photo of the CR guy in blackface that was later revealed to be green. I'm sorry there's not more to this puzzle.
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Jul 8, 2020 02:49
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Man I'm annoyed now because given the entire history in this hobby of orcs/goblinoids/green people it really should be a Thing if someone greenfaces but in the sense that they're basically echoing a buncha blackface negative poo poo and that's why it's wrong, not because some drat edited image bullshit
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Jul 8, 2020 02:57
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I'm on my knees, sobbing, begging you to stop saying 'greenface'
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Jul 8, 2020 03:02
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Somewhere, a Shadowrun writer is furiously taking notes.
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Jul 8, 2020 03:05
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sexpig by night posted:I'm on my knees, sobbing, begging you to stop saying 'greenface' if i say greenface greenface greenface does Ghazghkull Mag Uruk Thraka come and beat my poo poo in
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Jul 8, 2020 03:06
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Arivia posted:if i say greenface greenface greenface does Ghazghkull Mag Uruk Thraka come and beat my poo poo in No it's not even a cool Orc it's just fuckin Grom the Paunch that tries to eat your head, just embarrassing for everyone. For real though this sums it up best https://twitter.com/TrebuchetOps/status/1280351577224761348 CR for sure traffics in exploiting those parasocial relationships, for better or worse (yes there are positive ways to do it), and that is a pretty big issue, but at the end of the day CR is a corporation with a good PR team, but they like to have 'uh it's just a bunch of friends playing a game like the rest of us' as an easy excuse for when things are handled poorly. I don't think they're bad people or doing anything nefarious but it's a kinda...I don't know a more accurate word than 'insidious'...thing where they're simultaneously just friends paling around on the net and, ya know, pretty well off people with actual business relationships they're cultivating just as much. It's baby's first 'corporations aren't your friend' but because of the still niche nature of D&D and the inherently fairly social nature of it it's a blind spot for a ton of people.
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Jul 8, 2020 03:11
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https://twitter.com/negaversace/status/617054288569860096
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Jul 8, 2020 03:13
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gradenko_2000 posted:Doing the right thing can be hard, yes And sometimes it isn't reasonable to expect people to put part of their livelihood on the line. Easy enough to say when it isn't your organization and employees, of course.
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Jul 8, 2020 03:14
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All this discussion is convincing me of is that if Mercer did go "Mike Mearls sucks and you, my fans, should tell Wizards of the Coast you don't like him." (or whatever's a more polite legalese way of presenting that) will just make the apparently noxious fandom he's riding on go loving apeshit and make everything 100x worse. Like sure, he should pass along his disgust (if he has any) to WotC but people keep talking about leveraging his fanbase and I just don't see how that couldn't self-destruct stupendously. moths posted:There was a photo of the CR guy in blackface that was later revealed to be green. That was an embarrassing post and I hope you feel bad for how dumb you look
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Jul 8, 2020 03:17
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moths posted:There was a photo of the CR guy in blackface that was later revealed to be green. No, it was "he painted his face green for an ad because he plays a goblin and someone posted an image with lovely color correction and flipped out about nothing." Go take a nap.
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Jul 8, 2020 03:29
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BinaryDoubts posted:In the fandom's defence, Griffin was Not Good at running PBTA. I mean, he's a great storyteller but not a great GM, although if you're hosting a podcast it's probably better to be good at the former than the latter. Fortunately, there are many non-pbta indie systems.
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Jul 8, 2020 03:30
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moths posted:There was a photo of the CR guy in blackface that was later revealed to be green. Brain like a dry sponge
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Jul 8, 2020 03:32
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chitoryu12 posted:No, it was "he painted his face green for an ad because he plays a goblin and someone posted an image with lovely color correction and flipped out about nothing." Go take a nap. I mean, like, I'm the one who posted it, so give the guy a break, and also in the 50,000ish shares of that gif there's not a single Critter in the notes going, 'Uh, maybe you should take this down or upload a proper one,' or, even, 'Don't do this'. Like, someone showed it to me with the genuine belief I would be happy and interested to see it. Given that, I admit I wasn't super interested in combing through thousands of hours of footage to see what was up.
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Jul 8, 2020 03:58
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GreenMetalSun posted:I mean, like, I'm the one who posted it, so give the guy a break, and also in the 50,000ish shares of that gif there's not a single Critter in the notes going, 'Uh, maybe you should take this down or upload a proper one,' or, even, 'Don't do this'. Like, someone showed it to me with the genuine belief I would be happy and interested to see it. Maybe they didn't say anything like that because they already knew that it was just green makeup in lovely color correction and didn't think they had to make a social statement about it?
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Jul 8, 2020 04:04
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chitoryu12 posted:Maybe they didn't say anything like that because they already knew that it was just green makeup in lovely color correction and didn't think they had to make a social statement about it? I mean, okay, yeah. People can do what they want, but if someone color-edited a character on a show I liked and it looked like said character was doing blackface, I would simply not put it on my blog (and yes, I would suggest they take it down). Nor would I show it off to others as an example of why I think the show was good.
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Jul 8, 2020 04:07
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GreenMetalSun posted:I mean, like, I'm the one who posted it, so give the guy a break, and also in the 50,000ish shares of that gif there's not a single Critter in the notes going, 'Uh, maybe you should take this down or upload a proper one,' or, even, 'Don't do this'. Like, someone showed it to me with the genuine belief I would be happy and interested to see it. I mean why would they, it's probably a pretty safe assumption that they know close to the complete context, and have a general faith in the cast literally not doing blackface on loving twitch streaming to a 100k people and however many more catch the YouTube stream. Trust me if CR did black face on one of their streams dear god would people know about it and react.
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Jul 8, 2020 04:09
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As to why people would use that to try and get people into it I have no loving clue, it's really not that funny unless you know the personality of Sam and Laura's character in that game.
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Jul 8, 2020 04:14
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Dexo posted:I mean why would they, it's probably a pretty safe assumption that they know close to the complete context, and have a general faith in the cast literally not doing blackface on loving twitch streaming to a 100k people and however many more catch the YouTube stream. Yeah, I mean, I admit I was wrong, and I'm happy to be wrong. I still think many of the fans are idiots but any ill-will towards the show itself is gone. EDIT: Like I said, there are tons of 'Watch CR!' posts floating around and every single one is just gifs of the actors laughing at something. GreenMetalSun fucked around with this message at 04:20 on Jul 8, 2020 |
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Jul 8, 2020 04:16
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Darwinism posted:Man I'm annoyed now because given the entire history in this hobby of orcs/goblinoids/green people it really should be a Thing if someone greenfaces but in the sense that they're basically echoing a buncha blackface negative poo poo and that's why it's wrong, not because some drat edited image bullshit No, it probably shouldn't be a big deal if someone pretends to be an orc or goblin.
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Jul 8, 2020 04:30
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ZenMasterBullshit posted:Brain like a dry sponge
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Jul 8, 2020 04:33
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Dexo posted:As to why people would use that to try and get people into it I have no loving clue, it's really not that funny unless you know the personality of Sam and Laura's character in that game. Also, Dexo, I have had many, many lovely people be like, 'This isn't actually racist thing because of technicality X/Y/Z/etc.!' to me, which was how I read and reacted to your response. I should not have done that and I'm sorry.
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Jul 8, 2020 04:34
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Don't worry about it, trust me I get it my entire life experience is explaining why yes that thing you said/did is p racist. Or having to hold my tounge wrt racist poo poo people do and say.
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Jul 8, 2020 04:53
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Dexo posted:As to why people would use that to try and get people into it I have no loving clue, it's really not that funny unless you know the personality of Sam and Laura's character in that game. That's just a natural outgrowth of fandom, I think, losing all sense of perspective as to what an in-joke looks like to anyone not in the know. It's mostly harmless but you get stuff like this which is just... weird. Like I don't follow Critical Role at all and I have no idea what any of that means, but I know tumblr memes and I know if Critical Role did blackface they wouldn't exist today except for a few toppled statues in the desert wastes.
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Jul 8, 2020 04:56
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Sam Riegel does a little goofy-rear end sponsor "ad" at the beginning of more or less every episode. Usually it's for DnDBeyond, but it's also been for stuff like Wyrmwood or some data backup service. He'll also do a little thing when Matt busts out one of his maps and it's fun to see him scramble to get it done.
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Jul 8, 2020 05:06
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Nuns with Guns posted:All this discussion is convincing me of is that if Mercer did go "Mike Mearls sucks and you, my fans, should tell Wizards of the Coast you don't like him." (or whatever's a more polite legalese way of presenting that) will just make the apparently noxious fandom he's riding on go loving apeshit and make everything 100x worse. Yeah, but I feel like that self-destruction is a necessary step to removing the toxic members of their fan base. Take a firm stance and when people start being gribbling fools about it, let them see the door.
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Jul 8, 2020 05:15
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Like, everytime someone says “maybe CR could do better and not support a homophobic, racist corporation?” the response is inevitably “won’t someone think of the multi-million Actual Play corporation?”
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Jul 8, 2020 05:20
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Meinberg posted:Yeah, but I feel like that self-destruction is a necessary step to removing the toxic members of their fan base. Take a firm stance and when people start being gribbling fools about it, let them see the door. In this hypothetical how will this remove the toxic members of their fan base? Like what do you see them doing? Blocking terrible people on twitter? Banning them on their twitch streams? Issuing even more statements saying racism, homophobia, and transhobia are bad and harassment is bad? Do you see these having large-scale impacts on the toxicity of a fandom? Meinberg posted:Like, everytime someone says “maybe CR could do better and not support a homophobic, racist corporation?” the response is inevitably “won’t someone think of the multi-million Actual Play corporation?” Critical Role could cut ties with D&D and do their own fantasy game or latch onto one of the two other fantasy RPGs that aren't made by someone who sucks. Or do something besides the millionth generic D&D game because lord knows those are a blight on our times. It'd be disruptive and there'd be a massive fanbase meltdown and lots of harassment towards everyone involved in Critical Role, I'm sure, but I'd support it. I don't think they could effectively leverage their fanbase itself to lobby another corporation to do poo poo without it turning into a clusterfuck. I don't think it's worth getting into an intractable debate on the ethical obligation for one small successful corporation to kamikaze into a slightly larger corporation if the underlying system itself (captialism) is still rotten to the core and already set up in a way so that the entire effort was futile and the big corporation barely notices the impact. Nuns with Guns fucked around with this message at 05:48 on Jul 8, 2020 |
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Jul 8, 2020 05:46
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Arthil posted:And sometimes it isn't reasonable to expect people to put part of their livelihood on the line. Easy enough to say when it isn't your organization and employees, of course. oh noooooo Matt Mercer might have to go back to being an employee like everyone else!
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Jul 8, 2020 05:46
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CR and other 'mainstream' podcasts are not going to switch away from DnD. This is because it gets them advertising from name brand recognition; and also they see idiosyncratic rules that they can ignore at will or enforce capriciously as a boon to drama and a jumping off point for comedy and their stories instead of an annoyance that damages the integrity of the game system. Thinking otherwise, and this whole conversation, is very silly. Also, a fanbase being mean to you on twitter being you criticised the thing they like - even if they really were very mean - is not something worth caring about.
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Jul 8, 2020 06:01
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GreenMetalSun posted:I mean, like, I'm the one who posted it, so give the guy a break, and also in the 50,000ish shares of that gif there's not a single Critter in the notes going, 'Uh, maybe you should take this down or upload a proper one,' or, even, 'Don't do this'. Like, someone showed it to me with the genuine belief I would be happy and interested to see it. Yeah, if it wasn't clear by now (pretty sure it is) your takeaway from that should probably be "this guy thinks blackface edits are amusing and something to share with people" and act accordingly.
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Jul 8, 2020 06:12
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bewilderment posted:CR and other 'mainstream' podcasts are not going to switch away from DnD. This is because it gets them advertising from name brand recognition; and also they see idiosyncratic rules that they can ignore at will or enforce capriciously as a boon to drama and a jumping off point for comedy and their stories instead of an annoyance that damages the integrity of the game system. I’m so sorry that me thinking that maybe things can someday be better is so onerous of a notion to you.
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Jul 8, 2020 06:18
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bewilderment posted:Also, a fanbase being mean to you on twitter being you criticised the thing they like - even if they really were very mean - is not something worth caring about. dude, this is dumb as poo poo
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Jul 8, 2020 06:25
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Meinberg posted:Like, everytime someone says “maybe CR could do better and not support a homophobic, racist corporation?” the response is inevitably “won’t someone think of the multi-million Actual Play corporation?” Now that that is out of the way, if I understand your proposal here it is two-pronged. First, that Critical Role, the media company, should sever their ties with the current publishers of DND5E for their various lovely behaviors. They ought to do this and take the resulting medicine, come what may. Second, they should continue with their general program, but they should use a different system that is, ideally, one produced by a non-WOTC press. (The most likely candidate would be Pathfinder 2E from what I know.) Now I acknowledge your moral superiority but this seems to lack a certain practicality, and it is not clear how you get from A to B. It would seem the obvious route would be to spread awareness among Critters or whatever about the manifold crimes of WOTC and Mike Mearls, probably with a general tack of "ugh, I can't believe 5e's publishers did all this gross stuff! I wish our parasocial producers would use something else, such as" (whatever; Pathfinder 2E is probably the easiest lift here, I suspect Fellowship would be a very large lift)
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Jul 8, 2020 06:39
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It seems a fair number of Wizards affiliated people are calling out WotC on the most recent things. I don't know if Crit Role is among them.
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Jul 8, 2020 06:53
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Jumping ship from WotC to Paizo because of Mike Mearls would be funny but extremely stupid given... Paizo.
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Jul 8, 2020 07:00
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Nessus posted:I would like to lead by formally and explicitly acknowledging that you are my moral superior. It’s extremely cool to be sarcastic towards a trans person being actively harassed because they dared suggest maybe something could be better. It’s a great look and I suggest you keep doing it.
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Jul 8, 2020 07:04
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