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OutOfPrint posted:Magic vs. melee has been a problem since D&D 1e. Magic to me makes more sense in a game the more abstract the combat. Like in a traditional Final Fantasy game where the combatants are lined up against each other like chess pieces, magic works because there's no need to consider what would actually be happening moment to moment in real time and in real space. But the more "realistic" the combat is supposed to be the more likely it is a mage and enemy will be running around like the Benny Hill theme is playing or their magic will have to be largely shaped around preventing that. I put realistic in quotes because I feel like an actual realistic fight would be over much more quickly but a videogame obviously tends to extend any combat encounter.
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Jul 9, 2020 16:01
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Battle Network was pretty well received, wasn't it? The series made enough money to last 8 years with 6 mainline releases, spin-offs of its own (including Star Force being its own short series), an anime, two manga, and even a boardgame.
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Jul 9, 2020 16:41
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I'm almost sure it is literally the most popular Megaman franchise, even more than NES or X.
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Jul 9, 2020 16:47
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I don't know about being the most popular in general, but Battle Network 4 is one of the six Mega Man titles to make Capcom's Platinum Titles (games that sold over 1 million copies) list. The other ones being Mega Man 2, Mega Man 3, Mega Man 11, Mega Man Legacy Collection, and Mega Man X.
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Jul 9, 2020 17:00
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My favorite part of MMBN was collecting chips and the rather deliberate pace of the combat, it's too bad that the OSFE dev didn't care for the former and thought the latter was too easy/slow. Also I really dislike in OSFE when bosses poo poo on you when you lose to them. Sure there's apparently some builds that can win the fight in the time they spend mocking you, but it just made me go play something else that doesn't laugh at me when I die.
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Jul 9, 2020 17:03
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Monster Train...should be a great game, has a lot of things going for it, but is no Slay the Spire. The simple sprite enemies, there's only one set, it's always the same encounters with slight modifiers. It's way less about deck building than it could be, also actual deck manipulation through cards is so minimal it really feels like playing Uno (just play what I have, no strategy). It's got interesting relics but not the game changing stuff I crave. Overall the progression system is ok, but kind of wish I could have skipped it as it just padded the single player game in a way that made it grindy and not fun. The one really good thing it has is a number indicating if you're going to kill something or not, which I wish slay the spire had, but it has to have it because the 40 round fights that auto resolve when you fight a boss aren't something you could ever calculate yourself....yet it has the option to turn off the indicator lol.
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Jul 9, 2020 17:07
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LifeSunDeath posted:Monster Train...should be a great game, has a lot of things going for it, but is no Slay the Spire. The simple sprite enemies, there's only one set, it's always the same encounters with slight modifiers. It's way less about deck building than it could be, also actual deck manipulation through cards is so minimal it really feels like playing Uno (just play what I have, no strategy). It's got interesting relics but not the game changing stuff I crave. Overall the progression system is ok, but kind of wish I could have skipped it as it just padded the single player game in a way that made it grindy and not fun. The one really good thing it has is a number indicating if you're going to kill something or not, which I wish slay the spire had, but it has to have it because the 40 round fights that auto resolve when you fight a boss aren't something you could ever calculate yourself....yet it has the option to turn off the indicator lol. My issue with Monster Train was the inability to change your build depending on what cards and relics the RNG gave you. You have to pick how you develop your hero right off the bat and hope you get the right stuff to support it. Tier 25 ascension strategy is all "restart until you get X as your starting relic" which is really a boring way to play the game. Like once you up the difficulty a little you know from the first relic box if the run is going to be successful or not. Also the multiplayer sucks so bad but for some reason it's the game's main selling point in the storefront.
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Jul 9, 2020 19:42
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AngryRobotsInc posted:I don't know about being the most popular in general, but Battle Network 4 is one of the six Mega Man titles to make Capcom's Platinum Titles (games that sold over 1 million copies) list. The other ones being Mega Man 2, Mega Man 3, Mega Man 11, Mega Man Legacy Collection, and Mega Man X. and the funny thing is that bn 4 is by far the worst of the series
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Jul 9, 2020 19:57
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Crowetron posted:Remnant: From the Ashes is a very bad name for a very good game, but unfortunately Lawnmower Man was already taken. It's actually called this for a reason despite how generic a title it seems. I don't quite understand it myself, but it's actually a stealth sequel to one of the developer's other games, Chronos, and there are huge lore implications tied to that fact. CJacobs has a new favorite as of 20:02 on Jul 9, 2020 |
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Jul 9, 2020 20:00
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Robert J. Omb posted:I think my issue is how quickly my character dies. Even after sticking all my upgrades into health, a couple of hits from some of the bigger enemies and it’s game over. The dragon heart mechanic was a good idea, but by the time the animation winds up, I’ve been finished off (particularly in the smaller areas like the subway tunnels with the sudden appearance of teleporting, projectile enemies). Actually if you are taking too much damage is the problem you either need to upgrade your armor, put more points in the health trait, or change your armor into something that resists radiation for rhom. Damage is pretty fair outside of the two highest difficulties so you probably should go do some adventure runs of earth to get some more trait levels and items. It randomly picks from a pool of items each time it generates a zone so it takes like a minimum of 4 separate runs through the area just to get all the major items, so its pretty expected to have at least a few extra levels. On that note theres a ton of poo poo in remnant that is incredibly hidden and pretty important to get, and a lot of it is hidden in the minor things that generate. Adventure mode only generates the area with 1 or 2 of the minor world...curiosities, i guess? So its incredibly frustrating to try and hunt these things down, and now that the tool commonly used to detect if these things spawn is down its a pain for anyone trying to collect all the equipment in the game. I'm still missing the last armor, and it requires something rare to generate, followed by a 50/50 roll on if its the version I need, and I need this to happen 3 times. I'm honestly not convinced anyone actually has the armor now.
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Jul 9, 2020 20:26
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On the subject of magic versus non-magic, there are several games I feel where Magic is the "I win" button in an unimaginative way. In the Games RPG thread someone pointed out that Greedfall has a complicated back and forth between stealth and combat that magic just...ignores. There are two spells that matter and only one you actually need and you are good to go. When I played Royal in Demon's Souls, it was pretty much like that. You have an item that regenerates mana, you shoot enemies with magic arrows, chill to regenerate, and keep going. Nothing can really thwart this tactic if you're careful and have a shield. It's the best way to cheese the hardest bosses, especially Flamelurker.
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Jul 9, 2020 20:58
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Schubalts posted:Battle Network was pretty well received, wasn't it? The series made enough money to last 8 years with 6 mainline releases, spin-offs of its own (including Star Force being its own short series), an anime, two manga, and even a boardgame. gently caress now I want that. Zanzibar Ham posted:My favorite part of MMBN was collecting chips and the rather deliberate pace of the combat, it's too bad that the OSFE dev didn't care for the former and thought the latter was too easy/slow. This is what I was trying to say but I think you've written it way clearer.
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Jul 9, 2020 21:12
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kazil posted:A recent Terraria patch added fishing to the game. Preaching the the choir here. I hate fishing because I keep finding the games that insist on making them the same bland experience it is in real life aside from the part where you have to put the bait on the line. Yakuza 6 making it into an underwater rail shooter like House of the Dead thing was a step in the right direction. Also Fire Emblem Three Houses made them painless, it's just a hit A when the circles line up game. But yeah if I could just throw some aquatic dynamite into the water and get a pile of fish that'd be much better.
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Jul 9, 2020 21:16
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Metro:Exodus has absolutely bonkers weapon degradation. Like you take a walk in the swamp and empty 1 magazine from your AK that started at 100% condition and it starts to jam on the next reload? 
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Jul 9, 2020 21:23
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sean10mm posted:Metro:Exodus has absolutely bonkers weapon degradation. It seems to have no impact on weapons that are not rapid fire. I wielded the Tikhar when running around and that thing never jammed on me, regardless of accidental dives into muddy water or sandstorms. It's a very undeveloped element to the game.
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Jul 9, 2020 22:34
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Moved on from P:K to PoE:2, and a complaint I've seen many times, in different words: When game devs set up certain mechanics so that the player gets more rewards for playing 'incorrectly'. (Which can make players feel like they need to minmax their behaviour.) You get experience for picking locks. You do not get experience for unlocking something with it's key. This is the intended behaviour, as per the devs, as you use a skill to pick the lock, but a key is just using a key. For the player, this vaguely feels like you're getting punished for being thorough and getting the key, especially in cases where a key unlocks multiple doors. Overcoming the lock is the challenge that should grant experience, regardless of if you overcame it with a skill check, or by secondary means which led you to getting the key. (Which can involve searching, killing enemies and getting their loot, getting the key from other quests, etc etc etc.) It's a bit dumb that I get rewarded for finding a key and then just chucking it on the floor, and just lockpicking the lock instead if my party is capable of picking the lock in question.
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Jul 9, 2020 22:54
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ilmucche posted:gently caress now I want that. If you're willing to pay a premium, there are still copies floating around. https://www.amazon.com/None-MegaMan-Warrior-BattleNet-Board/dp/B0001XQN84
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Jul 9, 2020 23:02
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SubNat posted:Overcoming the lock is the challenge that should grant experience, regardless of if you overcame it with a skill check, or by secondary means which led you to getting the key. (Which can involve searching, killing enemies and getting their loot, getting the key from other quests, etc etc etc.) If it's any consolation you'll hit the level cap before the end if you're a quest completionist. The DLC doesn't raise the cap which means EXP becomes useless after a point.
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Jul 9, 2020 23:15
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Inspector Gesicht posted:If it's any consolation you'll hit the level cap before the end if you're a quest completionist. The DLC doesn't raise the cap which means EXP becomes useless after a point. I installed a mod to elevate the level cap to 33.  (Which means that multiclass characters can hit the powerlevel 8 and 9 abilities.)I'm curious to see if the game's scaling system can keep up. Apparently there's roughly enough xp to go around to punt you up to lvl 27 in the game + DLC. Which makes it feel kinda strange that they didn't bother adding an 'epic' tier of abilities, etc etc, considering they could have nudged the cap up to 25 at least.
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Jul 9, 2020 23:49
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RareAcumen posted:
Another thing Breath of the Wild did right
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Jul 10, 2020 02:54
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OutOfPrint posted:Magic vs. melee has been a problem since D&D 1e. The problems usually start with the designer not having a clear idea of what magic can and can't do in the setting. Can magic users bend time and space? Is magic a method of preparation used to give the user an edge in a future endeavor, like a witcher's potions? What cost does magic put on the user's body, finances, mind, and, setting permitting, soul? The problem with magic rooted in D&D origins is that it's essentially borne of a game that went "okay here's all the nitty-gritty rules of medieval combat, swords and boards, horses, the works" dry stats vs. stats war game stuff and then slapped on top "but what if I was a wizard who could subvert every last law of reality and do away with all that unnecessary poo poo?  " It's sort of logical and realistic in that that's pretty much literally what magic definitionally *is* but it turns out it makes for a lovely game! (And lovely players of said lovely game.  )My preferred solution is more or less the same, just concept agnostic: Every character should excel in doing something cool. My sword dude doesn't need to be a magic sword dude, but he better be able to do more than just "use sword on goblin until dead". And obviously said cool poo poo drat well better be in balance with the cool poo poo everyone else can do.
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Jul 10, 2020 05:06
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LifeSunDeath posted:Monster Train...should be a great game, has a lot of things going for it, but is no Slay the Spire. The simple sprite enemies, there's only one set, it's always the same encounters with slight modifiers. It's way less about deck building than it could be, also actual deck manipulation through cards is so minimal it really feels like playing Uno (just play what I have, no strategy). It's got interesting relics but not the game changing stuff I crave. Overall the progression system is ok, but kind of wish I could have skipped it as it just padded the single player game in a way that made it grindy and not fun. The one really good thing it has is a number indicating if you're going to kill something or not, which I wish slay the spire had, but it has to have it because the 40 round fights that auto resolve when you fight a boss aren't something you could ever calculate yourself....yet it has the option to turn off the indicator lol. I haven't played MT but I want to make sure things are fair: StS is one of the best games of all time in my opinion, let alone best card game. The depth is insane: I win like 1 out of every 25 Ascension 20 runs but I'll watch streamers who make way deeper decisions win at an insanely high rate (the record I believe is 10 A20 runs in a row WITH heart kill). It has inspired my kids to learn to read, it has inspired my kids to learn multiplication. My ADHD-diagnosed 7-year-old kids will sit and watch Jorb runs with me for 45 insanely-overexplained minutes. Let that sink in: Slay the Spire is accessible and popular with both super-deep-thought computer-brained streamers yet also hyperactive 7-year-olds. You may be thinking, "yes, but so does Minecraft and Pokemon," but that's my point: Those are two of the most popular games of all time and StS is punching in the same weight-class. StS makes any other card game look like playing go fish with a Pinochle deck. Drunk Nerds has a new favorite as of 07:23 on Jul 10, 2020 |
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Jul 10, 2020 07:18
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SubNat posted:Moved on from P:K to PoE:2, and a complaint I've seen many times, in different words: When game devs set up certain mechanics so that the player gets more rewards for playing 'incorrectly'. (Which can make players feel like they need to minmax their behaviour.) Argh I hate this, it's something PoE sometimes does well, too - no experience for combat meaning you don't feel obliged to clear every map after stealthily/talkingly bypassing every fight, etc.
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Jul 10, 2020 12:53
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Lunchmeat Larry posted:Argh I hate this, it's something PoE sometimes does well, too - no experience for combat meaning you don't feel obliged to clear every map after stealthily/talkingly bypassing every fight, etc. That seems kind of internally inconsistent. You get experience for picking locks because you're using a skill, but no experience for combat where you constantly using skills, so much so that your character class is defined by how they fight.
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Jul 10, 2020 12:56
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Would be interesting to see a game where, based on the class you pick at the start, you get experience for doing different things. Fighter-type class? Punch guys and get xp. Rogue? Treasure and locks. Wizard? Reading tomes and discovering/improving spells. Same amount of experience overall, of course, but something to disincentivize the swiss-army-knife approach of making a min-maxy character.
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Jul 10, 2020 13:09
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One thing Deadfire does right is if you complete the quest the long way, step-by-step, or sequence-break then the EXP result is the same.
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Jul 10, 2020 13:44
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Morpheus posted:Would be interesting to see a game where, based on the class you pick at the start, you get experience for doing different things. Fighter-type class? Punch guys and get xp. Rogue? Treasure and locks. Wizard? Reading tomes and discovering/improving spells. I think you just invented the leveling system that Morrowind and Oblivion used. Every skill has levels, but the ones that actually contribute to your character level to get better stats are the ones that you chose. Which unfortunately, was pretty easy to either game or get hosed by. If your major skills are things that you'll use and level up without necessarily focusing on them that don't contribute to combat (for example Athletics and Acrobatics) then the game can outpace you. But on the other hand if you put your levels into skills that you can very easily control when you're using (for example Speechcraft, Armorer, basically any magic school you aren't using in combat) then you have basically total control over your level ups and can make sure they're both perfectly allocated and timed.
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Jul 10, 2020 13:52
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Even Skyrim felt hosed given the dis-proportionally strong dungeon bosses, or how by level 40 every Draugr is a Deathlord. I think once you're past 50 there is no common enemy who can catch up with you. But until then you will be fighting damage-sponges. No matter how many perks I put into smithing and weapon-skills my damage output never felt right. I wish instead of 200 copy-paste dungeons we got 50. And instead of padding out questlines with RNG filler they just handed players the tools to make their own. It's amazing how sparse Fallout 4 is when you subtract the irrelevant base-building and radiant quests. I wish there was an Elder Scrolls-like where you didn't have to cheat to have fun.
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Jul 10, 2020 14:10
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Cleretic posted:I think you just invented the leveling system that Morrowind and Oblivion used. Every skill has levels, but the ones that actually contribute to your character level to get better stats are the ones that you chose. To be fair that was at least as much because of Oblivion's busted-rear end scaling system where having a lower character level made you relatively stronger. I never played Morrowind so I can't speak to that game.
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Jul 10, 2020 14:11
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Cleretic posted:I think you just invented the leveling system that Morrowind and Oblivion used. Every skill has levels, but the ones that actually contribute to your character level to get better stats are the ones that you chose. Not quite - in those, the levels of your skills contributed to some vague player level that didn't really mean anything, because your skills were where you got your power from. Then enemies for some reason scaled from your player level, which ruined the whole game. I'm talking starting the game as 'warrior' - you are good at fighting, can't magic, can't pick locks, but fighting enemies gets you xp, so you're going to charge into combat as much as possible.
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Jul 10, 2020 14:18
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The Moon Monster posted:To be fair that was at least as much because of Oblivion's busted-rear end scaling system where having a lower character level made you relatively stronger. I never played Morrowind so I can't speak to that game. That wasn't quite how it worked in Oblivion; it was instead that everything around you scaled, which meant that if you leveled more than you 'should have' then you hit the level range for stronger enemies. I remember the first bad one was level 4, when the clannfears turned up. Related: one of the elemental atronachs was bugged, and instead of having a level range of about four or so, had a level range of one. So you only ever fought that enemy at a single level, which was a real problem if you were, for example, an alchemist who really could've used that thing's materials.
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Jul 10, 2020 14:28
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Cleretic posted:
Quest rewards were also super weird, there was at least one quest you wanted to do at a specific level because the reward was so much better there than before/after it.
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Jul 10, 2020 15:47
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I prefer it when an RPG has a status screen that shows how all your attributes, perks, skills, and equipment affect one another so it isn't just a load of big. numbers. Skyrim's unmodded UI never bothers to tell you what figures into Attack Power or how strong your Magic spells are because it was more concerned with looking like a sleek IKEA magazine. The Surge was a highly flawed game, and not something I'd recommend easily unlike its sequel, but it had the right idea here: :no_upscale()/cdn.vox-cdn.com/uploads/chorus_asset/file/8523559/20170515170914_1.jpg)
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Jul 10, 2020 16:07
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Morrowind straight up doesn't have enemy level scaling so it's impressive that you guys managed to talk about it so much.
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Jul 10, 2020 17:42
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food court bailiff posted:Morrowind straight up doesn't have enemy level scaling so it's impressive that you guys managed to talk about it so much. Isn't that really the best though? Being gated by an area by level, but with some scrappy can do attitude and perseverance you might be able to gently caress with the AI or do some homebrew spell and get some good treasure...that's a fun experience. Showing up to the next mission after grinding a ton, thinking you're going to walk through it, only to have every enemy just scale with you and combat's always the same boring struggle...no thanks.
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Jul 10, 2020 17:50
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LifeSunDeath posted:Isn't that really the best though? Being gated by an area by level, but with some scrappy can do attitude and perseverance you might be able to gently caress with the AI or do some homebrew spell and get some good treasure...that's a fun experience. Showing up to the next mission after grinding a ton, thinking you're going to walk through it, only to have every enemy just scale with you and combat's always the same boring struggle...no thanks. I mean, yeah, that’s why Morrowind remains the best Elder Scrolls title by far, like 17 years after its release. I just think it’s hilarious that Oblivion and Skyrim poisoned the well so badly that people lump Morrowind in with their scaling shenanigans.
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Jul 10, 2020 17:53
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food court bailiff posted:Morrowind straight up doesn't have enemy level scaling so it's impressive that you guys managed to talk about it so much. It does have the standard TES stupid levelling system, which is what they are talking about.
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Jul 10, 2020 18:02
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In AssCreed: Origins I had more trouble fighting a gladiator with a big shield than the two gallic brothers.
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Jul 10, 2020 18:10
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Samuringa posted:It does have the standard TES stupid levelling system, which is what they are talking about. Yeah, but the reason it was so stupid in oblivion was that enemies scaled to your level, so a character who decided to focus in non-combat skills could make the enemies get stronger while their own combat skills are unchanged. There's no scaling in morrowind so it's not really an issue there.
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Jul 10, 2020 19:32
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Samuringa posted:It does have the standard TES stupid levelling system, which is what they are talking about. In Morrowind your level-ups could be less than ideal but there was still no reason at all not to take one. It's completely different than Oblivion where one of the most recommended ways to play is to literally avoid leveling up whenever possible. The level scaling was the issue.
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Jul 10, 2020 19:55
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