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international management is always the same: you're kinda bored in your save, there's a WC coming up, you pick a country and add a new player to be their manager, retire that player, you take over as the country's manager, team plays like poo poo, you never touch international poo poo again until the next release
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Jul 6, 2020 00:43
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Yeah pretty much that except I usually just pick up an international job 2 years before a WC with my current manager. Turns out the same though. With the match engine in general, it still has really only a small number of sequences it can display and after you've managed a few hundred games you've seen everything it has to offer dozens of times each. Winning gets boring and losing gets infuriating. I find you really have to use your imagination when watching a FM game, and pretend that botched chance was something other than yet another perfectly weighted 60 yard through ball to spring the striker for a one-on-one he kicks right at the keeper or shanks into the 8th row, and that goal was something other than a surgically precise laser-guided cross from 30 feet up the touchline directly onto the closing winger's forehead/foot.
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Jul 6, 2020 00:47
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I enjoy the challenge of working with what I'm given and imagining everyone's intense disappointment every other summer with me as England manager getting knocked out of successive tournaments by Denmark or someone. In terms of tactics, I've gone through all of sassassin's posts and cut out relevant bits to make a crib sheet to attributes, roles and tactics, might be worthwhile posting since my performances drastically improved once I did that (actually loving scoring against Turkey notwithstanding). I've won things internationally before, I won Euro 2012 or 16 ages ago with a weird 3-2-1-4 I used to abuse on PES, and I won the 2018 World Cup on FM14. I think what gets to me is that I'm no longer thinking in football terms, I'm thinking in terms of what works in game which sucks. Wide play seems pretty fruitless due to crossing nerfs unless you've got a tall winger, which England don't, really. Tammy Abraham is OK I guess. Walton Simons fucked around with this message at 00:56 on Jul 6, 2020 |
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Jul 6, 2020 00:53
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going back to rendering the matches with the 2d dots is not a bad move for this
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Jul 6, 2020 00:53
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Walton Simons posted:In terms of tactics, I've gone through all of sassassin's posts and cut out relevant bits to make a crib sheet to attributes, roles and tactics, might be worthwhile posting since my performances drastically improved once I did that (actually loving scoring against Turkey notwithstanding). It might improve the shots/chances/possession stats, but it makes no difference to the results. I've tried international play with downloaded cheat tactics that enable you to dominate the Prem with Newcastle and poo poo, you still constantly lose 2-1 while outshooting Sweden or whoever by 28-2.
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Jul 6, 2020 00:57
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I'm glad it's not just me at least.
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Jul 6, 2020 00:58
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I thought the issue in part was that rest and the change in fitness doesn't work on international if you're in charge so all your players are unfit all the time.
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Jul 6, 2020 15:31
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I remember managing an African national team in an old version of FM and having a player finish a qualifier on 3% fitness. Imagine being that guy's club manager...
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Jul 6, 2020 21:55
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Will fm21 feature no crowds & reflect the big financial woes of this coming year of football I wonder... perhaps an event showing if Trump or Biden win the presidency and thus whether of not covid gets cured sooner or later worldwide. Kinda like the Brexit events but pandemic style.
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Jul 8, 2020 19:45
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After playing around with Fifa and Football, Tactics and Glory, I finally decided to take the plunge and grab FM2020. I'm now 50 hours in and have spent the last two days watching youtube videos. Welp I guess I'm hooked.
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Jul 8, 2020 20:33
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OoohU posted:Will fm21 feature no crowds & reflect the big financial woes of this coming year of football I wonder... perhaps an event showing if Trump or Biden win the presidency and thus whether of not covid gets cured sooner or later worldwide. I always play tier 6 teams, nobody showing up wouldn't be a major change
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Jul 9, 2020 01:13
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Can someone answer some newbie questions I have? I'm still on my first save trying to learn the ropes. 1- When people say have all 3 tactics training so you can rotate, is there a difference between tactics and formation? I have: a) Gegenpress 4-2-3-1 Wide, b) Vertical Tiki-Taka 4-1-4-1 DM Wide and c) Wing Play 4-2-4 Wide. Like can I freely swap my Gegenpress formation from having a forward AM to having a covering DM depending on match-ups without having to specifically train a different tactic? If yes, this means that when I get form drops due to teams being familiar with my tactics, it's not enough to do a formation swap, I need to do a tactic swap right? 2- Youth intakes: how are you supposed to "play" other clubs youth intakes? I put them on a scouting shortlist. Am I supposed to try and poach them ASAP while they're young before they fully develop or am I supposed to just watch and wait for their contracts to expire and snap up whatever is good?
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Jul 10, 2020 03:03
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If you got your idea of "playing youth intakes" from a tutorial or Let's Play or anything, it might have been from an older version--when they overhauled scouting in 18 (I think? Might've been 17) they pretty much did away with the old tradition of spending 6 hours scouring every team in the world's youth class on Intake Day and poaching the most promising looking lads. That was changed so that all the newgens start with no interest in transferring anywhere for the first month or so, long enough for most of the good ones to sign contracts with their clubs.
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Jul 10, 2020 03:59
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Ah that would do it. Yeah I must have gotten the idea from an old LP that I could snag some newgens on the cheap.
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Jul 10, 2020 05:07
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How do you beat teams packing the middle of the park with a 4-3-3 seems like my team just plays one twos between my inside forward & wing backs before sending in ineffectual crosses to my 5'8 forward who can do gently caress all with em. I'm not sure if I should just give up possession in the hope of being able to play on the counter or if I need to completely adjust the formation & tactics or what.
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Jul 10, 2020 05:13
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You can still totally snatch regens cheap on regen day. The issues are that regen day is now staggered. Any given country will be given their regens over a week, so you need to keep an eye every single day on that transfer page. And you can only poach them on day 1 really. Sometimes day 2-3. This means no time to scout. What I do once march hits is check my league's transfer youth intake screen every single day until players start popping up. I then check each club to get an intake that day and sort by value. Its a crude way but it sorta works. Some slip through and you end up wasting a couple of million here and there on waste wastemen but it seems worth it overall. I then offer them enough that they give the accepting on the spot response (very good offer) as they'll usually accept a contract with their own club over me if not. If you buy the 5 or so highest value players each intake this way, it'll cost you £10-15mil and £80k a week (probably £10mil average cost over 2-3 years) in the Premier League. But you'll probably end up with one £20-30mil sale, one first team player / £50mil+ sale and three players who end up on the scrap heap.
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Jul 10, 2020 07:46
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Xtanstic posted:If yes, this means that when I get form drops due to teams being familiar with my tactics, it's not enough to do a formation swap, I need to do a tactic swap right? Sort of but not always. It depends on why the formed dropped in the first place. If form drops because of injuries thats one thing but if form drops because a couple of your shite players were playing out of their minds for a few games that something else. Some times you don't necessary need to completely change the tactic. It could be as simple as changing a team instruction or adding a player instruction. I know it sounds cryptic but it really depends on how you are trying to play and seeing why you aren't playing like that. When in doubt just get better players. Seriously that's the best way to fix the tactical problems. You can eventually get players good enough for your division that you will just over power everyone and you don't really need to worry about tactics much. You just win. OoohU posted:How do you beat teams packing the middle of the park with a 4-3-3 seems like my team just plays one twos between my inside forward & wing backs before sending in ineffectual crosses to my 5'8 forward who can do gently caress all with em. I believe Sass said that the best way to deal with those sort of games was to play more conservative, so instead of attacking go positive or balanced. Try to draw teams on to your players and find space in behind because of it. You can also try shoot on sight TI to see if you can get some goals that way. EDIT: also if you are the one playing 433 maybe drop the wingers down and play 4141 may give you some more space. AlbertFlasher fucked around with this message at 13:04 on Jul 10, 2020 |
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Jul 10, 2020 13:02
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Masonity posted:You can still totally snatch regens cheap on regen day. The issues are that regen day is now staggered. Any given country will be given their regens over a week, so you need to keep an eye every single day on that transfer page. And you can only poach them on day 1 really. Sometimes day 2-3. This means no time to scout. Ah this sounds fiddly but I'll give it a shot. Still, if I miss that window, it's still useful to shortlist all the promising young kids and potentially drop 10-20 mil on someone that looks like a potential stud right? Try doing something like this? https://footballmanagerstory.com/fm-2020-regen-youth-intake-guide-find-the-best-wonderkids/ AlbertFlasher posted:Sort of but not always. It depends on why the formed dropped in the first place. If form drops because of injuries thats one thing but if form drops because a couple of your shite players were playing out of their minds for a few games that something else. Some times you don't necessary need to completely change the tactic. It could be as simple as changing a team instruction or adding a player instruction. I know it sounds cryptic but it really depends on how you are trying to play and seeing why you aren't playing like that. When in doubt just get better players. Seriously that's the best way to fix the tactical problems. You can eventually get players good enough for your division that you will just over power everyone and you don't really need to worry about tactics much. You just win. Well I'm playing as Bayern Munich so I'm pretty much doing that. I saw skimming the thread there's a hardcoded slump in dec/jan and that's where I started hitting a skid so I swapped tactics and it seemed to have worked. So I'm curious if I only did a formation swap but not a tactic swap if that would have worked. If anything, the games I seem to have more trouble with is when I rotate a lot of my squad or field a weaker team versus a bottom table team and I seem to only barely beat them. So I wonder if it's a tactic issue or if it's a player quality issue. (probably both).
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Jul 10, 2020 17:20
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Ya the January slump is real. Not as noticeable when you are a big club but it still exists.
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Jul 10, 2020 18:48
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Note that the jan slump isn't a hard coded you lose it's just when reputation is recalculated. The AI bases it's tactics on your reputation which means if you are a shite team doing well your early season tactics beat teams playing attacking football as they expect to win after Jan teams are playing with more care so if you don't adjust you lose.
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Jul 10, 2020 21:02
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It’s not just that, it is partly hard coded. If you’ve been overachieving the first half then even if you adapt your tactics you’re going to lose a bunch in January through March. Or if you’re already far and away the best team then you’ll get draws and narrow wins instead of easy wins for a while. One definite side effect of this I’ve noticed particularly in England is with the FA Cup: since the real teams start playing in January, my team almost always either bombs out immediately or wins it. By the 5th or 6th round the hardcoded slump is starting to recede, but if you draw a real opponent in the 3rd or 4th you usually lose. More often than not if my team reaches the 6th round, it wins.
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Jul 10, 2020 21:46
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Xtanstic posted:Ah this sounds fiddly but I'll give it a shot. Still, if I miss that window, it's still useful to shortlist all the promising young kids and potentially drop 10-20 mil on someone that looks like a potential stud right? Try doing something like this? https://footballmanagerstory.com/fm-2020-regen-youth-intake-guide-find-the-best-wonderkids/ This is basically the system I have been using, it's pretty time consuming - depending on how many nations youth intakes you add to the initial scouting list. You'll still pick up most of the good players for pretty reasonable sums though £5.5 million  £5.5 million  £1.3 million  £4.8 million  £1.8 million  £3.4 million  Even if you buy a few duds who only make it to 2 or 2 1/2 stars, I've been selling those guys on for £10-15 million each anyway. Stotty fucked around with this message at 21:54 on Jul 10, 2020 |
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Jul 10, 2020 21:52
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Stotty posted:This is basically the system I have been using, it's pretty time consuming - depending on how many nations youth intakes you add to the initial scouting list. I'm going to need to see the capacity of the Premier League version of the Deva Stadium, please.
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Jul 10, 2020 22:31
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Stotty posted:This is basically the system I have been using, it's pretty time consuming - depending on how many nations youth intakes you add to the initial scouting list. OK cool that's what I was hoping for. I want to be a right proper bastard big club and slosh my weight around.
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Jul 10, 2020 22:40
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I may be guilty of righteous madposts in this thread but I just won qualification to the nations league semis with a 93rd minute James Milner thunderbastard in Amsterdam. Relegated Italy were holding Denmark in Copenhagen so it had to be us or the Netherlands to go through. They'd gone 2-0 up way too easily before the 87th minute when Rice headed in a Maddison free kick and unbelievably, after all the dozens and dozens of loving corners that came to nothing, one was nodded away onto Milner's right boot for him to crack off the underside of the bar to what I imagine was dead silence in the Johan Cruijff Arena. Moments like that are the reason I'll re-add myself to the game with my name spelt backwards and a comedy moustache days after swearing I'll never touch it again. As an aside, how do people generally set up away from home? I won 9 of my 10 points at home which suggests I'm doing something wrong away since I lost to Italy and Denmark 3-0.
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Jul 10, 2020 23:17
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XBenedict posted:I'm going to need to see the capacity of the Premier League version of the Deva Stadium, please. Ah you must mean the erm ... *checks profile page* ... George Horan Arena. Named after some journeyman centre-back, not that I'm bitter about it. I think the board started plans to build a new 13000 seater stadium when we hit the Championship, but then we got promoted again and I guess the plans got expanded to a much bigger stadium at that point. We had to ground share with Wigan for a couple of seasons.  Chester are a pretty decent lower league team to start with, the starting squad is fairly strong - in particular a couple of cracking strikers that did pretty well for me up to League 2 & League 1. Decent left back in the reserves too that stayed all the way to the Premier League.
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Jul 11, 2020 13:57
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Any idea on how to set up away from home? I'm undefeated at home but just get crushed away, it's really extreme and I can't put it down to anything other than all my players do stupid things all the time. I've tried being more cautious and more aggressive to no avail. Going less direct seems to help but the home team seem to find it easy to drop back and pack the defence and we lose the ball and get countered. I don't know if there's an inbuilt attribute penalty to playing away or how to AI sets up differently at home but our dropoff in performance is staggering.
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Jul 11, 2020 16:16
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Walton Simons posted:I don't know if there's an inbuilt attribute penalty to playing away or how to AI sets up differently at home but our dropoff in performance is staggering. It's both, IIRC. Plus if your team is good, you probably played your last match at home and probably won comfortably so you're also eating an inbuilt complacency penalty (which obviously varies depending on the hidden modifiers like Professionalism, etc.) My long experience (haven't played 20 but I greatly doubt it's any different) is that if you're away and your opponent is using a Counter mentality, you're going to draw or lose and there's gently caress-all you can do about it. In any case I'm certain my results over thousands of matches are far better when an underdog away than when favored away. It's not like my teams get crushed 5-0 away to City; they draw City away or even win 2-1, but continually lose 2-0 away to Watford and poo poo. And my tactics have never made a discernible difference. I might actually dig back through old save files and check, but I would bet heavily that my career record away to megabastards is better than my career record away to also-rans and even relegation bait. (e: That's in the Premier League, in most of the other big leagues the bottom 10 teams are so dramatically weaker than the megabastards that you can try to lose to them, by playing inverted pyramid with no tactical prep and poo poo, and you usually can't.) Eric the Mauve fucked around with this message at 16:29 on Jul 11, 2020 |
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Jul 11, 2020 16:25
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That's pretty much what I find, I lost my game 4-2 and was lucky to get 2. Some quick notes from farting about with tactics: - Wingers seem like a bad idea, my full backs played balls into nobody until I moved them back to ML/R - Packing the midfield helped, playing a diamond seemed to help stop mediocre players embark on 30 yard dribbles through my midfield - Defenders seem really quite meek away from home, Joe Gomez and Stones really should have been able to deal with their striker but lost loads of aerial duels, fullbacks were similarly poor, with one of the goals being my LB stand and watch a cross put into the back post for my RB to stand and watch their winger head in. It's interesting to me since the AI teams in leagues I have on full detail don't have this problem so it might actually be my tactics mate.
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Jul 11, 2020 17:12
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Walton Simons posted:It's interesting to me since the AI teams in leagues I have on full detail don't have this problem so it might actually be my tactics mate. No, it's the evidence that in fact some of it is just hard coded to "create challenge" for the player. There's some stuff players have been complaining about for decades but definitely affect the AI teams as much as the human teams. Injuries spring to mind; IMO the game is clearly coded to tend to create runs of injuries to players in the same position, but if you look around you'll see it happens to AI teams just as much as it happens to you. AI teams get victimized by bad officiating just as much as your team does. But the Traditional Winter Slump and the losing away matches to relegation-bait teams is pretty clearly hard-coded to happen just to the player.
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Jul 11, 2020 17:42
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It's not hardcoded. There is no function where the game decides you must lose. But there is a shitload of softcoding that will conspire to tank your season at roughly the same point in every career unless you anticipate it and find the magic new tactic before morale dips/other sides' morale rises/ai clubs actually have their tactics learned etc. The first half of a season is easy mode not because the game slams the brakes on you in January, but because the ai managers are so bad at playing the game that they can't really level the playing field until then (see your assistant's advice for clear and obvious evidence). Add to that players being pretty bad at adjusting their own tactics when the ai starts playing against them differently, which happens with all clubs at once with the rep change recalculation. The game isn't deliberately malicious it's just dumb enough to look like it in the same way every year (because they're just welding poo poo to the same broken old bones). The game would actually be a better experience if they embraced some hardcoding of form/results imo.
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Jul 11, 2020 23:16
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AlbertFlasher posted:I believe Sass said that the best way to deal with those sort of games was to play more conservative, so instead of attacking go positive or balanced. Try to draw teams on to your players and find space in behind because of it. You can also try shoot on sight TI to see if you can get some goals that way. Attacking? Positive?!? You wouldn't catch me using anything more direct than balanced, I try to play good football. 90% of my tactics use Defensive. And get slower from there.
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Jul 11, 2020 23:20
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If you play through games, you can sometimes tell from the highlights if it's a game your team is going to stink in. Usually early on. I often see things like defenders playing long balls that bounce off the arse of a teammate 10 yards in front of them, or a player going for a dribble but being tackled accidentally by a teammate. Suicidal back-passes as well. When I see these in the first 10 minutes, it's time to do something different. Change formation, mentality, Player Instructions... you name it. I can sometimes spot it early enough to be able to scrape a dodgy win, or get a useful draw. But there's virtually no chance we'll play well for the full match.
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Jul 15, 2020 00:20
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It remains eternally funny coming to some Welsh 2nd Div South team and installing some hybrid Gegenpress nightmare system to a bunch of plumbers and sparkies playing football for free in their spare time.
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Jul 19, 2020 09:17
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i see weird competitive dads doing exactly that with primary school children in my local park all the time so it’s not unrealistic at all
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Jul 19, 2020 10:19
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algebra testes posted:It remains eternally funny coming to some Welsh 2nd Div South team and installing some hybrid Gegenpress nightmare system to a bunch of plumbers and sparkies playing football for free in their spare time. I played against some Welsh second division lads in a 7 a side tournament once upon a time and they were relentless. 15 minute game I think we conceded double figures.
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Jul 19, 2020 18:29
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sassassin posted:I played against some Welsh second division lads in a 7 a side tournament once upon a time and they were relentless. 15 minute game I think we conceded double figures. Would you say you were being overrun in midfield?
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Jul 19, 2020 19:10
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wonder what shouts their coach was using he must have steered well clear of "don't get complacent" at least
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Jul 19, 2020 23:25
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  Gegenpress + long ball did well. Only made 4 amateur transfers, a left winger, two CMs and a striker all of which were immediate upgrades. I'm kinda confused, I seem to have just stopped losing at some point, presumably as the power of ~hoof it into the channels~ was taught to my players. I've signed a bunch of Swansea (championship side) youth players that were released and maybe that will give me enough to fight for promotion next year.
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Jul 20, 2020 05:32
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Swans youth players are massively overrated so you should do fine. Is that Tom Dyson in midfield? Good player in the u18s, was disappointed we released him.
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Jul 20, 2020 21:42
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