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They tend to retire them into the ground.
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Jul 3, 2020 07:48
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Quabzor posted:Anybody got experience with K-9s? Because they're expensive as hell so you're getting less return on investment, and you lose their experience in the field.
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Jul 3, 2020 20:08
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Quabzor posted:Anybody got experience with K-9s? Part of it is the cost of getting and training a new dog (which is expensive in and of itself), but the other part is the lost skill of the trained dog. As you note, if it's going to a rookie handler, the dog is helping to train the handler as well. Moreover, the vast, vast majority of dogs they try to train for K9 work don't make it through, so it's not as simple as just getting a new dog to train. Honestly, they should really just stop using dogs like this, both because of the terrible, inhuman toll on the dogs and their dubious efficacy/
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Jul 3, 2020 20:10
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Toshokan posted:
The point of using attack dogs is to terrorize people. They use dogs as part of their arsenal as much as tazers, batons, and tear gas.
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Jul 3, 2020 20:35
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I think a lot of people think of the dogs "ability" to smell things like drugs or bombs. Execpt it turns out the dog knows it can just bark for drugs even if there aren't any and still be a good boy (because the cop wants the false positive). Get the dogs out there, its hosed up to make a dog a tool of oppressive violence when they're really just trying to, you know, be good boys. And I'm saying in a cutesy dumb way but I'm serious, the dog doesn't have an understanding of policing and state violence and it's hosed up to make them do this, even of they like it it's wrong to encourage it because dogs, like, by definition, don't have restraint. Oof I didn't know I had such strong feelings about dogs being agents of state violence.
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Jul 3, 2020 20:44
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A Bad Poster posted:The point of using attack dogs is to terrorize people. They use dogs as part of their arsenal as much as tazers, batons, and tear gas. As has been pointed out, I was referring to the "sniffing" aspect of their jobs, which is generally just a pretext for unconstitutional searches.
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Jul 4, 2020 01:37
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Jack B Nimble posted:I think a lot of people think of the dogs "ability" to smell things like drugs or bombs. Execpt it turns out the dog knows it can just bark for drugs even if there aren't any and still be a good boy (because the cop wants the false positive). Get the dogs out there, its hosed up to make a dog a tool of oppressive violence when they're really just trying to, you know, be good boys. And I'm saying in a cutesy dumb way but I'm serious, the dog doesn't have an understanding of policing and state violence and it's hosed up to make them do this, even of they like it it's wrong to encourage it because dogs, like, by definition, don't have restraint. Read about how Ferguson police used their dogs and you'll be even more in an uproar. https://www.buzzfeednews.com/article/adamserwer/heres-how-ferguson-police-use-dogs-on-town-residents And loving lol if anyone thinks anywhere else is better.
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Jul 4, 2020 01:41
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Are bomb dogs "real"? They don't seem to be used as much for intimidation and random searches, so is it just voodoo for the sake of it?
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Jul 4, 2020 01:42
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AreWeDrunkYet posted:Are bomb dogs "real"? They don't seem to be used as much for intimidation and random searches, so is it just voodoo for the sake of it? Nah they're good if they're actually selected, trained and maintained well. But if anyone in that chain is not doing this, it's useless. And plenty of those chains are compromised in the post-gwot welfare state for corps.
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Jul 4, 2020 01:58
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From whatbi remember reading the mine sniffer rats they use in africa (?) were more accurate but good luck getting people to sign off on that in the US
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Jul 4, 2020 02:08
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iwentdoodie posted:Read about how Ferguson police used their dogs and you'll be even more in an uproar. The Ferguson police department, and St. Louis police are some of the worst most oppressive PDs in the country. It can be way better in other jurisdictions, and still not in any way good - just less bad. Still unacceptable, and it needs to change nation wide. But to say "every thing is bad, therefore there are no levels or degrees of badness, everything is bad equally" is disingenuous.
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Jul 5, 2020 00:01
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crossposting because it owns
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Jul 5, 2020 06:41
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Quabzor posted:Anybody got experience with K-9s? I've spoken to a lot of handlers and training dogs is a pain in the arse. You spend a lot on a decent pedigree (or if you're lucky some rich individual will donate a litter) to begin with. Then you have a reasonably high failure rate in training suitability, so you may go through 2 - 3 different dogs all with their associated purchase cost until you find one that can train properly. Then you have to invest further in the training of the dog, whether it be a active searching drug dog, passive scanning drug dog, general patrol dog, explosive detection dog, etc. During this time the dog can still fail out if they don't make the grade, which means that it's back to the drawing board. Let's say the dog does pass the training, then you've still got a very delicate puppy who can still have a major setback or be rendered ineffective if somebody injures it or it associates the "game" with something unpleasant. So it's not only that the dogs are expensive to train, it's that lots of things can go wrong during training which means it will be difficult to find another dog to replace it. (This is the UK, I'm not a dog handler and all my experience is second hand) Hezzy fucked around with this message at 08:45 on Jul 7, 2020 |
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Jul 7, 2020 08:42
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Yeah in addition to initial training you also put a ton of work into setting up training where the human element can't contaminate a scene or leading to false positives being trained into a dog. An example is when hiding drugs in a building or a car, you open and close a lot of drawers and rub your hands over door handles and things where the drugs aren't, as well sitting around for a while before starting to search to let the scent fade. All of that is so you don't inadvertantly train the dog that fresh human scent = drugs, which can happen if you don't set up your training intelligently. Also the handler can never know where the hide is, whoever's running the training stays out of sight behind them and throws the toy once a good signal is given. There is a shitton of work required and a lot of intelligence and knowledge about how dogs work and how they learn in order to create a solid training scenario. After seeing the pains our k9 guys went through to set up these trainings every week it's also believable to me that small podunk departments aren't. As for costs, buying dogs was expensive, they had a 4 month, possibly a bit longer initial period of daily training just to get a new dog started, and then weekly training in addition to yearly tests for national certification. All of it was very intensive and there was a huge amount of work keeping current and developing skills. threelemmings fucked around with this message at 13:30 on Jul 7, 2020 |
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Jul 7, 2020 13:23
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I don't think every dog the cops have is a drug sniffing beagle. Those are fine. The police should not have attack dogs, which is mostly what they use.
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Jul 7, 2020 15:56
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They shouldn't even have drug dogs
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Jul 7, 2020 17:47
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UP THE BUM NO BABY posted:They shouldn't even have drug dogs But agriculture sniffers are important doggos.
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Jul 7, 2020 18:44
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Thanks for the answers Tangentially related I drove through the downtown of the city i work it since it's super tourist heavy and i wanted to see how busy the bars actually were. There was a K-9 SUV driving around with the dog in back just rage barking at every person that it saw. Nothing like knowing that whatever bar your in, you are no more than 200 yards from a big angry police dog.
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Jul 7, 2020 18:55
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UP THE BUM NO BABY posted:They shouldn't even have drug dogs Give us a hot take on cadaver dogs next.
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Jul 8, 2020 03:43
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Godholio posted:Give us a hot take on cadaver dogs next. That's harder, because the cops know people might finally notice that the emperor has no clothes when they fake dog search car after car but never find a body.
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Jul 8, 2020 04:34
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joat mon posted:That's harder, because the cops know people might finally notice that the emperor has no clothes when they fake dog search car after car but never find a body. I love the Ron White bit about drug dogs. "The dog gave us a signal that there are drugs on the plane." "No it didn't. What's the signal, a *blank fuckin' stare*? I've been watchin' the goddamned dog and it hasn't done *poo poo*."
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Jul 8, 2020 04:41
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https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=OlZoUGiTJxA
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Jul 8, 2020 04:58
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the same people screaming about the 8 year old who got shot (by mysterious assailants... on a major holiday.. in the exact same area Rayshard Brooks was murdered) in Atlanta are almost the exact same people who didn't give a flying gently caress about Sandy Hook
NOTE: This Something Awful forums user (previously known as "The Blackest Goon") is a Person of Color who chose the current iteration of his username ironically after years of having his remaining brain cells all but fried after monitoring the rise of online reactionary ideologies for a decade.
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Jul 8, 2020 05:07
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joat mon posted:That's harder, because the cops know people might finally notice that the emperor has no clothes when they fake dog search car after car but never find a body. Reading drug dog cert testimony is bonkers. Yes, the dog was recertified. Monthly. By its owner/handler. In a public park. In a test that was 0% blind. It indicated 50 times in the last month, resulting in two whole drug arrests, so it’s a good asset!
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Jul 8, 2020 05:17
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Race Realists posted:the same people screaming about the 8 year old who got shot (by mysterious assailants... on a major holiday.. in the exact same area Rayshard Brooks was murdered) in Atlanta are almost the exact same people who didn't give a flying gently caress about Sandy Hook it's incredibly hard not to go full  here, but i truly believe the culprits responsible knew what they what they were doing and desired this exact reaction to shift public opinion over to the side of the cops (which to be fair isn't hard at all considering Georgia is a red state)I do not think there's a random gunman going around killing children for no reason
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Jul 8, 2020 05:20
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I firmly believe some cops are doing these drive-bys and poo poo. There's enough of them that would feel emboldened to take a few potshots at some "born criminals", SJW's and commies, in their words and gives mayors a perfect excuse to ramp up violence from the police.
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Jul 8, 2020 05:21
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Wasabi the J posted:I firmly believe some cops are doing these drive-bys and poo poo. I feel like it's a Boy Who Cried Wolf situation where you laughed at the imbeciles calling Sandy Hook a false flag Op but suddenly find yourself in almost the exact same shoes years later
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Jul 8, 2020 05:27
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Jul 8, 2020 05:33
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mlmp08 posted:Reading drug dog cert testimony is bonkers. I saw one of these tests the other day. Cop had one of those tennis ball chuckers and the dog was 50 ft away from the tennis ball licking their rear end. Good dog in a bad job.
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Jul 9, 2020 02:29
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hot take the dogs testimony is still more trustworthy than the cops
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Jul 10, 2020 18:03
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Proud Christian Mom posted:hot take the dogs testimony is still more trustworthy than the cops This reminds me of the time a drug dog "hit" on a care package on our FOB, they cut out the bottom and a bottle of crown royal fell out. And so did a package of beef jerky
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Jul 10, 2020 22:35
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Replace k-9 units with k-infinity remote sensing experts for massive cost savings and the liberation of good boys while maintaining the same great evidenciary standards
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Jul 10, 2020 22:58
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Proud Christian Mom posted:hot take the dogs testimony is still more trustworthy than the cops All cops are bastards, but all dogs are good boys, so at best they're neutral testimony at least.
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Jul 10, 2020 23:09
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A Bad Poster posted:I don't think every dog the cops have is a drug sniffing beagle. Those are fine. The police should not have attack dogs, which is mostly what they use. It always seemed really hosed to me that cops have these savage animals that they're allowed to just set on people at will, then if you try to stop the animal loving you up they charge you like you assaulted a human officer 
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Jul 11, 2020 09:04
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Radical 90s Wizard posted:It always seemed really hosed to me that cops have these savage animals that they're allowed to just set on people at will, then if you try to stop the animal loving you up they charge you like you assaulted a human officer it's astonishing to me how often resisting arrest or assaulting an officer is charged when a bunch of cops roll on someone and start beating them and the person reacts defensively. has the law never heard of fight or flight? it's not something people can control. if 4 dudes are standing over a person beating them with batons or tazing them, of loving course that person is going to kick and punch and roll as much as they can, even if they've never thrown a punch in their life. whenever i hear "they must have been on drugs because they wouldn't go down" or "we tazed them 4 times and it did nothing" all i can think of is these stupid rear end police have never heard of adrenaline-fueled survival instinct. like what do you expect to happen? if someone comes over and knocks you to the ground and sits on your airway while punching you, your body has millions of years of survival instinct and tools to forcibly escape. expecting anything else to happen is loving stupid. it's literally the strongest instinct humans have.
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Jul 11, 2020 16:16
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i've dealt with people in survival mode, and the first thing that goes out the window is rational thought. people in that state cannot make decisions at all. the adrenal gland surges, every neurotransmitter in the brain dumps, every major muscle group contracts, and the heart rate and bp go through the roof. people become freakishly strong and quick. not a single thing i listed is a conscious choice. and you know what? even when it's an enemy combatant, i can't hold them responsible in that state. they are not functioning as human beings as we know them anymore. their prefrontal lobes might as well be made out of wood at that point. so don't act surprised when you intentionally put someone in a truly life-threatening situation and they react.
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Jul 11, 2020 16:30
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They're fully aware and do it on purpose
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Jul 11, 2020 16:38
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I was charged with resisting arrest because when someone told me to move or i would be arrested i said "i understand, you'll have to arrest me, i won't resist"
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Jul 11, 2020 16:43
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Its why they keep calling out stop resisting while they beat the poo poo out of people who are handcuffed and curled up in a defensive ball. Its gets the audio on record and usually its where the dashcam cant see it so they can throw extra charges at someone. Its also why body cam footage keeps being unavailable or the cams keep getting turned off
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Jul 11, 2020 16:50
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Stravag posted:Its why they keep calling out stop resisting while they beat the poo poo out of people who are handcuffed and curled up in a defensive ball. Its gets the audio on record and usually its where the dashcam cant see it so they can throw extra charges at someone. Its also why body cam footage keeps being unavailable or the cams keep getting turned off It's been so long I can't remember what it's called but they gave us a little nickname for it, like "the camera effect" or something. This was before dashcams and body cams were widespread but they did that for bystanders before then. I had better luck just holding someone and repeatedly whispering "it's over, no more fighting, you get to fight this in court now" and stuff like that when arresting someone. Shouting at the top of your lungs that the resistance that is not happening is the reason you are hitting them doesn't make things easier. Like why would they not resist more at that point?
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Jul 11, 2020 17:29
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