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I am back on the fence about a Model 3. I had canceled my original reservation due to quality control issues (paint, glass, etc). These appear resolved. I drive ~1000+ miles per month due to work. This has reduced due to our current situation, but will go back to normal in the next year. What have I missed? What's out there in the same price range? I'm even considering a VOLT, but I've never been a big Chevy fan. My main holdback with any electric is the lack of indoor parking and living in the rainy PNW - however I'm tired of visiting the gas station multiple times per month.
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Jul 15, 2020 22:37
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Ola posted:If you can charge fully at the other end and it takes 45 minutes of charging each way, you'll spend less time on charging than picking up and delivering back the rental, plus the money. you got some slow rear end rental places, and if you're willing to accept less range the Wonderful Wide World of Used Nissan Leafs opens up to you at an incredibly low price point
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Jul 15, 2020 22:54
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Picked up my Model 3 Performance today, after about 7 months of waiting. Left the lot with 50% charge (set it to %, default was miles), made it home with 17% even though navigation estimated I'd have 11%. I think my 30 mile average when I got home was about 240 wh/mile so I wasn't driving it hard although it was raining, and its a stealth performance so it has 18" aeros on it. Still, even at like 30% battery that thing kicks like a horse when you push go (had to do it just once!). Fit and finish, good enough for me. There is one kinda loud rattle on the passenger side of the cabin I'll have to track down once I have a passenger to look for it with. Otherwise I didn't see any problems from circling the car a couple times. Autopilot is magic, made the 70 or so miles of freeway go by in a breeze. It was set to hold mode by default, and I'm already ruined by regenerative braking and will be unable to drive an ICE reliably again. Didn't touch the brake pedal even once the whole 100 mile trip home. Installed a software update once I got home, and its now charging full tilt on my HPWC.
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Jul 15, 2020 22:58
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KYOON GRIFFEY JR posted:you got some slow rear end rental places, and if you're willing to accept less range the Wonderful Wide World of Used Nissan Leafs opens up to you at an incredibly low price point You have to go there, maybe wait in line, sign the complicated forms, meander around the car park trying to find it by pressing the fob, etc...
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Jul 15, 2020 22:58
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KYOON GRIFFEY JR posted:I don't think 21 is actually going to be all that crowded. Late 21 means the following nominally planned launches for North America, which I've sorted (subjectively) by how likely I think they are to occur: This is a good post. So the Rivian isn't for sure this year? For as much as I've seen them testing I would have thought it was closer. Also, like others, I'm really looking forward to seeing the Vizzion and the Buzz, or really any wagon/minivan EV. Looks like they are all planned for like 2022+ It makes me sad...
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Jul 15, 2020 22:59
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Indiana_Krom posted:Picked up my Model 3 Performance today, Congrats!
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Jul 15, 2020 23:00
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the spyder posted:I am back on the fence about a Model 3. I had canceled my original reservation due to quality control issues (paint, glass, etc). These appear resolved. I drive ~1000+ miles per month due to work. This has reduced due to our current situation, but will go back to normal in the next year. What have I missed? What's out there in the same price range? I'm even considering a VOLT, but I've never been a big Chevy fan. My main holdback with any electric is the lack of indoor parking and living in the rainy PNW - however I'm tired of visiting the gas station multiple times per month. I don't know when you last looked, but probably the same stuff before tax/manufacturer incentives. Niro, kona, leaf+, and bolt. The ioniq is quite a bit cheaper if you don't want/need a heat pump, and just a little cheaper if you do. Similar thing with the non plus leaf gwrtheyrn fucked around with this message at 23:08 on Jul 15, 2020 |
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Jul 15, 2020 23:05
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Indiana_Krom posted:There is one kinda loud rattle on the passenger side of the cabin I'll have to track down once I have a passenger to look for it with. I just don’t understand how are people ok with this.
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Jul 15, 2020 23:10
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Not ok with it, just know its probably something easy to fix.
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Jul 15, 2020 23:30
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Congrats, Indiana_Krom!
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Jul 15, 2020 23:31
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Ola posted:You have to go there, maybe wait in line, sign the complicated forms, meander around the car park trying to find it by pressing the fob, etc... I go there, get in a car on the lot, show my license to a guy at exit, and then I'm done. When I return, I leave the car in the parking lot with the attendant who emails me a receipt and I leave. This is the standard process. Nostalgic Cashew posted:This is a good post. So the Rivian isn't for sure this year? For as much as I've seen them testing I would have thought it was closer. Note that I forgot the Bolt and Big Bolt, so those are in the mix. Big Bolt might fit your needs, it's a van like creature without sliders. Vizzion and Buzz are still in very nebulous states to the public at least. VW has to nail ID.3 for Europe and ID.4 globally. If those vehicles are successful and MEB works and is reliable enough, then they can iterate on it. Even if they make production, I doubt In theory the Rivian truck is in production in late 2020. I'll assume the design is frozen, but if it isn't, that needs to happen first. If it's not, you're a long way from production. Then you have to break the design in to manufacturing steps and develop a pre-series production line. The pre-series production line isn't even set up and going through testing yet; it wasn't complete before COVID-19 slowed everything down and it won't be complete . Then they have to go through a series of preproduction vehicles to at least slightly optimize or make the line workable and define the series production line. (it's possible to not do this or to do it inadequately [hello Tesla] but since Rivian is mostly run by Serious Car People they'll do things pretty by the book). Make any changes to line, production, etc, then start producing series vehicles. In parallel, stand up the workforce - they're good here because Normal was the Mitsubishi plant and all those people are sitting around with gently caress all job prospects, so the workforce is used to building cars. I think they're optimistically 6 months away from series vehicles coming off the line, but that's a guess, and if you put a gun to my head I would tell you that the first units will not be in customer's hands until 12 months from now. Building cars is loving hard. At least with the major automakers there's some institutional knowledge, and even then they gently caress it up. edit: saw some rumormill stuff that internal schedules are series production in June 2021 soo yeah KYOON GRIFFEY JR fucked around with this message at 00:34 on Jul 16, 2020 |
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Jul 15, 2020 23:36
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Ola posted:You have to go there, maybe wait in line, sign the complicated forms, meander around the car park trying to find it by pressing the fob, etc... If you travel enough you can just sign up for the free Hertz gold rewards program or whatever it's called, I used to just arrive at the car place and pick up the keys from a board without talking to anyone then drive out. The only verification was by the security as you left the parking garage, and the whole process was easier than grabbing an Uber.
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Jul 15, 2020 23:37
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Alright, hypothetical question. I was originally looking at getting a niro this year, but there's a lot of upcoming stuff that looks interesting in the next year or two. If I wanted to just get a used EV to tide me over until companies get 1-2 years into their dedicated-ev models, what would be a good model to look at? It seems like 2016 leafs and egolfs are available at ~10k and i3s around 14k. Ideally, i'd be able to make a 70 mile highway trip when it's about 20F out, which I think There's a non-zero chance I'd just pass off the car to my parents in around 3 years. gwrtheyrn fucked around with this message at 23:49 on Jul 15, 2020 |
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Jul 15, 2020 23:44
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Nfcknblvbl posted:Congrats, Indiana_Krom! Thanks again for the referral code.
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Jul 16, 2020 00:24
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I think we may be considering a Volvo T8 V60. The reviews are modeling but we need a wagon, want an EV/hybrid and this is pretty close. Anyone driven one?
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Jul 16, 2020 01:14
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I love a good Spark EV video. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gNu2LYBPoFU I think the driver is just touring chargers in his area, since some of the distances between chargers are very short. I wish my Spark had CCS. I was a fool.
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Jul 16, 2020 02:28
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some_admin posted:I think we may be considering a Volvo T8 V60. The reviews are modeling but we need a wagon, want an EV/hybrid and this is pretty close. Anyone driven one? By the time you pay that much money you are awfully close to an e-tron
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Jul 16, 2020 02:49
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ReaperUnreal posted:Thanks for the link and tip. I'm in Canada, near Toronto. Budget is 30-40k, range is bimodal. I'm either driving 30-40km or 500km along major highways. I'm definitely fine watching a bunch of youtube vids, got plenty of time. Well here's some entertainment, if you can laugh at the utter flappy headed canuckness of these two chuckleheads. (to the rest of the thread, if you've never met a Canadian, yes we're really like this.) https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=kIGrTCcnUSY They do a couple of other electric and hybrid reviews on their channel as well. And also are happy to say nice things about some cars because the manufacturer bought them lunch, and it's only polite, eh.
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Jul 16, 2020 02:58
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MomJeans420 posted:If you travel enough you can just sign up for the free Hertz gold rewards program or whatever it's called, I used to just arrive at the car place and pick up the keys from a board without talking to anyone then drive out. The only verification was by the security as you left the parking garage, and the whole process was easier than grabbing an Uber. I would much rather just sit for 45 minutes at a charger in my own car and look my phone, get lunch or use a nearby bathroom, than travel to/from a rental place even if I was Hertz Gold Senator Premium. Factor in having to fill it with gas at some point as well. gwrtheyrn posted:Alright, hypothetical question. I was originally looking at getting a niro this year, but there's a lot of upcoming stuff that looks interesting in the next year or two. If I wanted to just get a used EV to tide me over until companies get 1-2 years into their dedicated-ev models, what would be a good model to look at? It seems like 2016 leafs and egolfs are available at ~10k and i3s around 14k. Ideally, i'd be able to make a 70 mile highway trip when it's about 20F out, which I think They all came with a bigger battery around then, 35,8 kWh e-Golf, 30 kWh Leaf and 94 Ah i3, which is around 27 kWh IIRC. All of those should make that trip comfortably, the previous versions perhaps less so. I think it's from 2016 for the i3, 2017 for the others. I also think the i3 is a good bet over time. The carbon fiber tub will never rust at least. Availability of adaptive cruise control might be another factor, which would rule out the Gen 1 Leaf.
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Jul 16, 2020 03:01
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I never use cruise control to begin with so while adaptive cruise control would be cool, it's not a deal breaker. I only see 2016/2019 listings when I'm looking at golfs, presumably 2017s aren't off lease yet and dealers are trying to dump their 2019 inventory. I'll just have to keep an eye on that, since the 2017 range is enough for what I need, and worst case I know there are a couple evgo chargers in the cell phone lot at the airport
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Jul 16, 2020 03:37
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Indiana_Krom posted:Picked up my Model 3 Performance today, after about 7 months of waiting. Left the lot with 50% charge (set it to %, default was miles), made it home with 17% even though navigation estimated I'd have 11%. I think my 30 mile average when I got home was about 240 wh/mile so I wasn't driving it hard although it was raining, and its a stealth performance so it has 18" aeros on it. Still, even at like 30% battery that thing kicks like a horse when you push go (had to do it just once!). Congratulations on your new EV! Enjoy it!! I'm glad to hear you had a positive delivery experience. Let us know what the rattle is once you fix it (if you're okay sharing).
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Jul 16, 2020 04:19
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Ola posted:I would much rather just sit for 45 minutes at a charger in my own car and look my phone, get lunch or use a nearby bathroom, than travel to/from a rental place even if I was Hertz Gold Senator Premium. Factor in having to fill it with gas at some point as well. Oh I agree, I was just saying if you travel frequently there are things you can do to make your life a lot easier. In previous jobs I've had a wide range of travel experiences, ranging from being gone Monday to Friday to being out of the country for two months at a time to traveling every other week, and nothing compares to being at home / being in your own vehicle. But if you do have to travel, you can minimize a lot of the pain points with a little effort up front. I don't have an EV so I don't rely on the charging infrastructure, but even in California I have noticed one thing that would make me think twice before a long road trip in a EV. My friends and I used to take road trips to various breweries before COVID-19, and when we went from LA to San Luis Obispo I noticed the supercharger station at the Madonna Inn had a huge line. A few months later that same station became famous for having comically long lines on the Thanksgiving holiday weekend, and I would have been pissed if I had to wait in that line. I guess now you know avoid the more crowded charging locations on holiday weekends, and I realize most people don't do 400 miles in a day to grab some beer, but had I required access to those chargers to get home it would have really messed up my day. Just another reason he may want to rent a car versus charging on long trips, but I have a feeling that is almost all charging location dependent.
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Jul 16, 2020 04:40
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gwrtheyrn posted:I never use cruise control to begin with so while adaptive cruise control would be cool, it's not a deal breaker. I only see 2016/2019 listings when I'm looking at golfs, presumably 2017s aren't off lease yet and dealers are trying to dump their 2019 inventory. I'll just have to keep an eye on that, since the 2017 range is enough for what I need, and worst case I know there are a couple evgo chargers in the cell phone lot at the airport Once you've used a really good lane centering and adaptive cruise system you won't want to go back. You can do 200 mile drives with no mental or physical drain.
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Jul 16, 2020 06:10
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Shamino posted:Once you've used a really good lane centering and adaptive cruise system you won't want to go back. You can do 200 mile drives with no mental or physical drain. I can count on one finger how many times I've done that in the last 5 years. Not saying it's not good, just I don't make that kind of trip a lot where it's a gamechanger, and on a ~120 mile range vehicle it's not like I'm looking to make those kind of trips
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Jul 16, 2020 06:23
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I use mine for my commute and it's a dream. Especially after being up all night on call.
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Jul 16, 2020 06:49
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I've done two 5k+ mile road trips with my family in our Teslas, and steering assist with traction aware cruise control was invaluable when it came to fatigue.
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Jul 16, 2020 06:55
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MomJeans420 posted:
Yeah that is definitely a problem, but hopefully EV adoption scales in the right direction. More range to skip chargers, more home charging to start with a full battery and more charging stations along popular routes.
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Jul 16, 2020 07:32
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Nfcknblvbl posted:I've done two 5k+ mile road trips with my family in our Teslas, and steering assist with traction aware cruise control was invaluable when it came to fatigue. I've got no experience driving with these kind of systems so don't really know what exactly do you do different when they're on. How does it make the drive easier? I'm guessing you still keep an eye on the road but just kinda sit there.
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Jul 16, 2020 11:44
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elbkaida posted:I've got no experience driving with these kind of systems so don't really know what exactly do you do different when they're on. How does it make the drive easier? I'm guessing you still keep an eye on the road but just kinda sit there. Basically you can relax and not have to manage the speed (like when people decide to pull in ahead of you and slightly slow down, or when traffic slows down) and you can let the car do the steering for you so you don't have to microsteer all the time. All that saves energy and it mostly shows whenyou are already a bit tired or have been driving for a long time.
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Jul 16, 2020 11:52
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elbkaida posted:I've got no experience driving with these kind of systems so don't really know what exactly do you do different when they're on. How does it make the drive easier? I'm guessing you still keep an eye on the road but just kinda sit there. Driving on a straight road might seem like it requires no input. But the road surface might camber here and there, traffic is constantly changing speed, maybe there's a crosswind, etc. It requires a billion micro adjustments, which demands your mental attention and lots of muscle activation. With a lane keeper and adaptive cruise you just sit there. Obviously paying just as much attention as you were before, perhaps with better situational awareness, just not doing the active inputs. Drivers used to have to change the ignition timing by hand, it was probably a relief for long range comfort when governed timing in the distributor was invented. The negative thing is the opportunity to not pay attention for long periods of time, which lots of people abuse the poo poo out of. I don't do that, but I fall into other more subtle bad habits where I basically let the cruise control maintain speed through some corners where I would otherwise had let off the gas a bit. It just didn't seem sharp enough to cancel, you know?
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Jul 16, 2020 12:04
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elbkaida posted:I've got no experience driving with these kind of systems so don't really know what exactly do you do different when they're on. How does it make the drive easier? I'm guessing you still keep an eye on the road but just kinda sit there. Idont quite have a DD that is Tesla level auto drive features but I find that I tend to be looking further up the road and just allowing the car to travel with flow of traffic. I don't view it as a replacement for my own eyes but as a second or third set - it really does just make long distances less mentally tiring esp with the fact the car is doing everything to drive to the exact speed I want it to be. More traditional cruise control can wander up and down in speed, it cant hold distances to other cars, you have to intervene regularly etc. Going from Sydney to Melbourne where you don't have to touch either the brakes or the accelerator once (800 odd kms) means I can stretch out more too. It doesnt sound like much but you really do notice the difference if you are in the car for a long time. I'm not as sore and I am mentally doing a lot better. Also no matter how good a driver or how aware you are, everyone makes mistakes. Having the car say LOLNO or WARNING! if you are going to change lanes when there's something too close is awesome. I personally do not trust the car to see and stop if I see traffic coming to a halt ahead so I'll take over. Thats just me however, I'm aware the car will stop as required. I just cant get mentally past trusting the car to do that - I def usually see much further up the road than the sensors can so I'm on the brakes well before the car would be braking usually.
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Jul 16, 2020 12:05
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Autopilot is amazing for road trips. Multiple times I have actually arrived at a hotel after a long 12 hour driving day not completely feeling like poo poo.
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Jul 16, 2020 12:28
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elbkaida posted:I've got no experience driving with these kind of systems so don't really know what exactly do you do different when they're on. How does it make the drive easier? I'm guessing you still keep an eye on the road but just kinda sit there. I found, though it's probably different for other people, that adaptive cruise frees your brain up for a lot more active observation and situational awareness. You see a lot more of what's going on on and near the road when you never have to think or look at your speed. Lane keeping is fine on a straight road where you don't really even notice its there, but the versions I've encountered are extremely bad at corners, sawing the steering wheel back and forth and turning what would be a single smooth steering input and single corner line driven by a human into some kind of octohedral mess. The adaptive cruise fails too here, because the car can't anticipate that the driver ahead (that it just lost sight of because of the curve) is about to park it in the next one and leaps to accelerate then slams on the brakes because yeah, that guys is still there going a snails pace, I saw it, and would have reacted more appropriately. So basically don't bother with either in the mountains (I just wanted to see how it behaved since it was a novelty to me to have it).
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Jul 16, 2020 12:37
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I thought I loathed driving until I drove a model 3. Lane centering and adaptive cruise takes away 90% of what I actually hate and suddenly I can drive for over thirty minutes without feeling tired and angry. When I drove a Bolt the LKA was scary because it didn’t have the same constant feedback the 3 does on its big stupid display. I was always worried that it would fail or not actually be active and I would run off the road. There are plenty of things to criticize about Teslas, but the level of instrumentation wrt the car’s sensors and processes is pretty decent. At some point I expect to sell my gas car and get another bev, but not until something with a similar level of transparency is available. Seems like a low priority since I’ve been driving fewer than ten miles a week recently thanks to C19.
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Jul 16, 2020 13:55
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On our way home from picking up the Model 3 a truck started to veer into our lane, the car started beeping like crazy and actually juked slightly to the left to avoid it, we were pretty impressed. That said it hasn't repeated the behavior and we had a few other close calls so it makes me wonder at the predictive models it uses. Never something to be relied on. Autosteer is amazing for highway driving but totally unreliable for city roads. It does take away all of the stress of driving on long trips, I arrive feeling relatively relaxed/refreshed now. I just wish they wouldn't gatekeep the lane change function to FSD. It would be nice if I could just manually change lanes to pass a truck without disabling AP and being forced to re-enable it. I think eventually they will be forced by the market to offer this, most other adaptive cruise control systems I've used can cope with that.
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Jul 16, 2020 14:22
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I spend nearly all of my time in autopilot, even when I’m essentially manually driving. You can treat autopilot like a magic robot that lets you text and watch movies on your commute It’s not at all ready for L3 or further automation, but as an L2 safety and fatigue mitigation tool it’s loving amazing.
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Jul 16, 2020 14:25
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I'm a total micromanager when driving even when taking really long trips so have only used the driver assist functions in the Tesla so far to try them out. I like being able to anticipate the actions of the drivers around me which even FSD can't quite do yet. I'm not likely to use AP often if at all. I do really like the visualization which doesn't replace checking the blind spot but serves as an additional safety measure.
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Jul 16, 2020 14:58
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The Gunslinger posted:Autosteer is amazing for highway driving but totally unreliable for city roads. It does take away all of the stress of driving on long trips, I arrive feeling relatively relaxed/refreshed now. I just wish they wouldn't gatekeep the lane change function to FSD. It would be nice if I could just manually change lanes to pass a truck without disabling AP and being forced to re-enable it. I think eventually they will be forced by the market to offer this, most other adaptive cruise control systems I've used can cope with that. I had the Enhanced Autopilot trial enabled during one of my long trips. The lane change & navigate on Autopilot features were pretty bad; lane changes were VERY slow, half-hearted, and canceled 1/3 of the time even in perfectly clear conditions. It would take off-ramps at 20 mph UNDER the speed limit. I don't think you're missing much at the moment.
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Jul 16, 2020 15:23
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Nfcknblvbl posted:I had the Enhanced Autopilot trial enabled during one of my long trips. The lane change & navigate on Autopilot features were pretty bad; lane changes were VERY slow, half-hearted, and canceled 1/3 of the time even in perfectly clear conditions. It would take off-ramps at 20 mph UNDER the speed limit. I don't think you're missing much at the moment. Oh I don't want it to change lanes for me. Right now if you hit your signal indicator it just dumps you out of AP. I just want AP to resume automatically after I complete the lane change. It's a minor thing but on a long drive I will pass a lot.
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Jul 16, 2020 15:33
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Even the, admittedly garbage, adaptive cruise on the i3 makes a difference on longer trips or sitting in traffic. The couple trips I've done in Teslas with autopilot have been great and I arrived less tired than I would have otherwise. As mentioned it's even better if you're tired from a long day.
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Jul 16, 2020 15:35
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