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I always find going into games workshop stores super intimidating, the staff are just a wee bit too eager. If its a place I'm visiting ill usually say I'm picking up stuff for a friend's birthday so i can browse around without being drawn into being sold stuff
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Jul 16, 2020 11:44
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JollyBoyJohn posted:I always find going into games workshop stores super intimidating, the staff are just a wee bit too eager. If its a place I'm visiting ill usually say I'm picking up stuff for a friend's birthday so i can browse around without being drawn into being sold stuff I believe they're taught the business model is about selling new armies over adding to your existing ones, which probably explains it.
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Jul 16, 2020 12:03
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I’ve generally found the rule to be pretty chill when it comes to head swaps and using occasional bits in conversions. Don’t draw attention to it and it will probably be ok. However you might find yourself the victim of an edge case and have your models disallowed, in which case I can see that this could really suck depending on timing and whether it screws you over for playing your game that day. Reinforces the point to me at least that GW stores are usually not the best venues for actual gaming.
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Jul 16, 2020 12:13
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JackMann posted:Working out my army for Iron Hands. How does this list look? Pretty solid, and not too far off from the Iron Hands army I'm working on. I'm a little concerned about those three man units, though. Even with the Feirros/Father of the Future 5++/5+++ bubble, it won't be too hard to blast them off the board. In particular, I worry about the Eradicators ever getting a shot off, especially if you go second. I know that for the Eradicators, Eliminators, and Suppressors you can only get them in groups of three so there's not much you can do about it....though I'd consider using the new Strategic Reserve rules for the Eradicators and taking advantage of being able to move and shoot not only with no penalty but with a built in 're-roll 1s' on the first turn while in Devastator Doctrine by deploying your Eliminators and Suppressors behind LOS blocking terrain. Actually, deploy as much of your army as possible that way, when it comes right down to it, but especially those vulnerable three man units. That way you can be safe from most enemy fire on turn one even if you go second, then move and shoot without penalty on your turn. For the Eradicators, it's entirely possible they won't have anything to shoot at on turn one, or if they do, it will just be screening elements that the melta is gross overkill on. So skipping turn one fire isn't that much of a sacrifice if it means they can't be killed until after you bring them on the board with Strategic Reserves on turn two, preferably in range of something important that needs to die. I'd also consider jiggering your points to bring your Aggressors up to a five man unit. Five seems to be the magic unit number in 9th edition. It's as many wounds and guns that you can take without getting negatively impacted by the Blast and Coherency rules. Finally, don't sleep on Lieutenants. Overlapping auras is where Space Marines live. Re-rolling 1's to wound when stacked with Re-rolling all to hits is a surprisingly effective combination.
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Jul 16, 2020 12:14
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Not allowing any 3rd party bits seems dumb as hell. How would I be expected to run stuff like wolf priest where they don't even sell models for them? Just tack on a bunch of lovely existing bits from their old kits and call it a day? What about stuff they haven't had available to order for like 5 months? It seems so drat stupid that I don't think I'd be inclined to spend so much as much as a penny in one of their stores as long as that rule stands.
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Jul 16, 2020 12:17
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It really does depend on the store. When I was getting back into 8th edition, the manager of the local GW played me with his 100% 3rd party Victoria miniatures guard army in the store. As others have said, even if your local GW isn't at quite that level of not-give-a-shittery, it's doubtful any of them would be able to tell a mini has non GW parts unless you point it out.
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Jul 16, 2020 12:29
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just make sure you do a lovely enough job painting that no-one will be impressed and pick it up to look more closely
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Jul 16, 2020 12:35
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Prime everything in vanta black and call it a day
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Jul 16, 2020 12:42
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Yeah, it obviously massively changes store to store because people are people. I used to actually house share with my local GW manager and from what I gather the rules are pretty clear and pretty strict, it just comes down to whether the manager can be bothered or not, it's not like GW is going to give them a commendation for removing a third party model from the store. It is sort of unreasonable to brazenly be brining in another set of competing products into the store though. Its like going to McDonald's to buy your lunch, then sitting down in a burger King to eat it, only worse because the staff in GW stores do actually give a poo poo about the company. To be honest though I don't even think I'd bother playing I'm a GW store these days. Firstly I'll get told off if I swear, which again is fair enough but I don't want to have to watch my language. Secondly I remember where pretty much the store I lived near always had people in and games going on, but most stores I go to these days are using the boards as displays and intro games and rarely if ever have people hanging out in the store. It's sort of what GW was pushing for, from what I understand, years ago anyway which I always felt was a mistake. When you're hanging around playing the game and painting its always the best time to tempt you with an impulse purchase.
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Jul 16, 2020 13:10
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Kitchner posted:It is sort of unreasonable to brazenly be brining in another set of competing products into the store though. Its like going to McDonald's to buy your lunch, then sitting down in a burger King to eat it, only worse because the staff in GW stores do actually give a poo poo about the company. Except in this example mcdonalds is sold out of hamburgers for 5 months and it has fries on the menu but they don't actually make fries anymore. And the only reason you would want to go into their store instead of having it delivered to your door is because you're going there to engage in a hamburger eating contest. Like I get not allowing base models recasts or whatever. But even with models they do stock, making you buy 3-4x the units you need to get specific bits for lists is ridiculous. I can't see how they expect you to drop $60 for another box of ten units just to get 4 more stormshields or whatever. If they allow and promote greenstuff but not third party, what if I just make greenstuff copies of all my bits and use those. That line just seems so pointlessly blurred. Meow Tse-tung fucked around with this message at 13:43 on Jul 16, 2020 |
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Jul 16, 2020 13:27
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moths posted:Are the FW points going to be in the annual? Is this finally when they get incorporated into 40k proper? Kitchner posted:No, its getting its own index "soon" The FW points are in the annual, just like they've been in chapter approved every year.
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Jul 16, 2020 13:45
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Booley posted:The FW points are in the annual, just like they've been in chapter approved every year. They put out FAQ updates for the existing FW indexes yesterday, making me think the new ones are delayed for some reason.
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Jul 16, 2020 14:03
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I saw the supposed leak and it had no FW items, which is why I asked.
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Jul 16, 2020 14:09
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xtothez posted:They put out FAQ updates for the existing FW indexes yesterday, making me think the new ones are delayed for some reason. Naw they did it for every army. I don't think they ever said they'd be out at launch, just that they were coming. There won't be any codexes at launch, even for space marines and necrons (Though I give it like 2 weeks to a month)
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Jul 16, 2020 14:09
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moths posted:I saw the supposed leak and it had no FW items, which is why I asked. Yeah, I'm not sure why either the video noted poo poo bag ss82 has of him reading the book or all the spreadsheets people have made don't have the FW points, but they are in the booklet.
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Jul 16, 2020 14:11
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JollyBoyJohn posted:I always find going into games workshop stores super intimidating, the staff are just a wee bit too eager. If its a place I'm visiting ill usually say I'm picking up stuff for a friend's birthday so i can browse around without being drawn into being sold stuff I interviewed for one of the store jobs when I was a lot younger, and from what I remember the training was you must always stand with your back to the wall, and so that you can see the entrance. When people enter the store, you must acknowledge them, even if you're with other people. This is actually fairly normal in "sales" retail stores. The sales bit is basically a mix of sales techniques that don't quite stray into hard sales, but prompts a lot of the same psychological stuff. For example, if I ask you "Do you need any help?" that's a yes/no question that is easily shut down. If you know what you're looking for, you don't need help. If I ask you "What are you looking for today?" then you may say "I'm here to pick up a Leman Russ". That means I can now engage you in more conversation. You may say "I'm just browsing" in which case I can now ask you about if you collect yourself, what army do you collect etc. The idea isn't to hard sell as such, but more to just be enthusiastic about what you're collecting or buying, even if it's for someone else. "What are you looking for?" "I wanted to get some Wyrdvane Psykers" "Oh yeah, an astra Militarum player? You planning to use them to smite people or protect your tanks?" "Smite mainly" "Awesome, good way to chuck some mortal wounds on the board and of course they can be quite consistent with their one dice plus modifier ability". Ultimately they are just people doing the sales technique their job requires them to do. Most of them probably do actually enjoy talking to you about what you collect. I do have a female friend though who had a really bad experience in a store years ago though when they basically assumed she wasn't buying for herself and some other sexist stuff, and she didn't return to a store for years. Meow Tse-tung posted:Except in this example mcdonalds is sold out of hamburgers for 5 months and it has fries on the menu but they don't actually make fries anymore. And the only reason you would want to go into their store instead of having it delivered to your door is because you're going there to engage in a hamburger eating contest. As someone who's been stung by the fact venerable dreadnoughts can take missile launchers but don't even have one in the box, or the fact that GK paladins only have a single daemonhammer in every box, I'm not going to defend GWs shite practices when it comes to selling boxes of models without options or with very few options despite what their datasheet says. That being said, a while ago KFC in the UK actually ran out of chicken (I know) but that doesn't mean you'd go sit in one to eat fried chicken from the place down the road. The point is because people treated them as gaming clubs (in my experience anyway) they sort of saw it as a gaming club rather than a store that let's you play games there because it helps their sales. Let's even just consider tape measures (though now I think of it even the manager I knew didn't ban non GW tape measures and he was strict). Their tape measures are about 4/5 times the price of any tape measure you could buy in a normal store. If you go to a GW store as a new player and everyone is using non-GW tape measures would you buy one? What if everyone painting was using non-GW paint brushes and non-GW paints? Would you buy the GW stuff? Regardless of the manager's personal opinion (which likely ranges from "other companies make good stuff too" to "I don't use GW stuff at home") they can't have that going on in the store really. Unless you go to a GW store to play or warhammer world itself none of this stuff is really relevant anyway. I think it's fair in their stores and their HQ that you don't rock up with a load of different companies stuff. That all being said, like you say if you're allowed to make stuff yourself, sometimes it's hard to tell the difference when a model is painted. I think the biggest give away from any stuff I own is i ordered some of the old Kasrkin models with plasma guns from a recaster, if you picked one of them up it would be significantly lighter than the metal models. I don't know if GW ever made them in resin but that could be a give away. Otherwise from looking at it they'd never know. Kitchner fucked around with this message at 14:27 on Jul 16, 2020 |
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Jul 16, 2020 14:18
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Do you guys still like small marines?Professor Shark posted:I got an Apothecary done today that I started yesterday, probably the fastest I've completed a model!
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Jul 16, 2020 14:41
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That's a proper old school apothecary isn't it?
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Jul 16, 2020 14:44
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Yep! I believe it is 2nd/3rd Edition
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Jul 16, 2020 14:54
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I really like the GW staff in my local store (Belfast) fwiw. I believe they’re sticklers for branded paints but I dont really care because I’m not that interested in painting in-store
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Jul 16, 2020 14:56
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SteelMentor posted:"No non-GW stuff, not even clippers and glue" Gunder fucked around with this message at 15:25 on Jul 16, 2020 |
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Jul 16, 2020 15:21
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Cheeky ask, but has anyone put together a list builder for 9th (google sheets or anything?). Seems like BS won't update till the release and I've got the urge to build!
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Jul 16, 2020 15:42
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If I sound salty as hell about the GW rules it's because I am. Just skip this post if you're not interested in a mountain of salt about playing with plastic toys. I get some of the analogies to it being used as a gaming club, but if you're buying their base units as your game-pieces...ehhh. Forcing people to buy like 4x the units they need to use the weapons they want is disgustingly greedy. Especially when even doing the bare minimum you're spending hundreds of dollars on the core units most likely. Unfortunately I will be playing at the GW store because it's super close and the other LGS is run by chud shitheads. I don't know if most of the 40k fanbase just have enough of a plastic backlog that it doesn't matter to them anymore or what, but this has been the new player experience trying to build an army list that I'd like to eventually play in stores once or twice a month. This is the shittiest intro to a miniatures game that I can possibly imagine. My 40k experience to date: -Buy start collecting box from GW store recommendation -Once actually ready to list-build, find out that those are last years models because GW just announced new stuff for the year and the old ones pretty much all completely suck, but can be used for other units that only comparatively suck -Decide to build some wolf guard w/jump packs. Sprue does not contain jump packs. GW official store sold out of jump packs for like the half year I've been trying to build these things. Ebay scalper prices pretty stupid to the point that buying a brand new pack of jump pack guys is probably the better option. -Storm shields and stormbolters: same as above, contains like two per 10 units -Say, "gently caress it" and decide to work on a different unit and assume that it was a fluke. Decide to do longfangs assuming they sold bits separate since the longfangs kit is no longer sold. Nope, GW's answer is to spend ONE HUNDRED AND TEN U.S. DOLLARS for 4 weapon bits to convert the base models from the $90 kit I already bought from them. -Ok fine I guess I can make a wolf priest. Ok they don't sell wolf priests because of course not. I can't use third party bits? Ok so I guess I buy the $30 named character and try and convert him to a generic dude. Oh of course they aren't stocking him either. Maybe if I cut up the power axes and then greenstuff a bunch of wolf pelts and axes and other random poo poo it can pass for what I need. Oh wait I also want a jump pack for him. gently caress. Seriously, that's probably the dumbest introduction to a tabletop game that I've ever seen in my life. I can't ever recall my enthusiasm for a hobby screeching to an abrupt halt as fast as it is with 40k and it kind of blows my mind that anyone can defend it. Also I wasn't sure if you were joking or not. Do GW stores seriously require you to use a GW branded RULER? You're loving kidding, right? If not I think that's my moment to paint what I have, put them on the shelf, and never look back at 40k ever again, because that's above and beyond the level of dumb bullshit that I can handle. Meow Tse-tung fucked around with this message at 15:48 on Jul 16, 2020 |
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Jul 16, 2020 15:44
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Meow Tse-tung posted:If I sound salty as hell about the GW rules it's because I am. Just skip this post if you're not interested in a mountain of salt about playing with plastic toys. I get some of the analogies to it being used as a gaming club, but if you're buying their base units as your game-pieces...ehhh. Forcing people to buy like 4x the units they need to use the weapons they want is disgustingly greedy. Especially when even doing the bare minimum you're spending hundreds of dollars on the core units most likely. Unfortunately I will be playing at the GW store because it's super close and the other LGS is run by chud shitheads. While I haven't played at a GW store in a very long time, I can't imagine they require you to use their branded tape measures. Last time I was in one buying things I was chatting with the manager about different brands of yellow paint and figuring out what would work best for my Fists, and he was recommending vallejo. What you've had happen with models is an issue that GW has been working on fixing. Older kits have much wider rules choices that include taking more of an option than is in the kit, or things that aren't in the kit at all. Over the last few years GW has been working on improving this, with recent kits only allowing you to use options that are included in the box and not having rules for things they aren't selling. Unfortunately this has been a slow process in part because of grogs whining that it removes their options and ability to add character.
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Jul 16, 2020 16:06
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Sometimes you get GW stores like the one in Raleigh NC, that I will never go to because the one time I visited I was told by the manager that they don't allow ForgeWorld models to be played because they can't sell them in that store. My CSM army is 80% FW models, 15% kitbashes/conversions, 5% unaltered store-available GW models. Compare that to noted good GW store Springfield VA, where the staff and fellow customers were more than happy to stare in reverence at my dudes.
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Jul 16, 2020 16:36
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JollyBoyJohn posted:I always find going into games workshop stores super intimidating, the staff are just a wee bit too eager. If its a place I'm visiting ill usually say I'm picking up stuff for a friend's birthday so i can browse around without being drawn into being sold stuff If you want to avoid those conversations entirely, when they ask what you're working on or painting, just mention a competitor's game. They do not want to talk about that. If you want to be less of a dick, then say Underworlds, as that's pretty limited in up-selling.
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Jul 16, 2020 16:37
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Two Beans posted:Sometimes you get GW stores like the one in Raleigh NC, that I will never go to because the one time I visited I was told by the manager that they don't allow ForgeWorld models to be played because they can't sell them in that store.
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Jul 16, 2020 16:39
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glitchkrieg posted:If you want to avoid those conversations entirely, when they ask what you're working on or painting, just mention a competitor's game. They do not want to talk about that. If you want to be less of a dick, then say Underworlds, as that's pretty limited in up-selling. https://www.warhammer-community.com/2020/07/16/warhammer-underworlds-the-2020-road-map/ Incidentally they just posted their road map with new warbands and the next expansion for that game 
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Jul 16, 2020 16:44
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jesus WEP posted:im a newbie to 40k but aren’t forgeworld models an official part of the army? like for some units they’re the only option available for sale at all? There's nothing in the FW lines that are listed in the main-line codicies. They're extra units that are either special units from some obscure lore, super-big models that are really there for advanced hobbyists, or Horus Heresy models that were given current 40k rules. In my case however, I just really liked the look of the HH 1k Sons models. So even my most basic marine with a bolter is from a plastic mkiv marine FW kit with added FW resin upgrades for torsos, heads, and shoulder pads.
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Jul 16, 2020 17:00
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jesus WEP posted:im a newbie to 40k but aren’t forgeworld models an official part of the army? like for some units they’re the only option available for sale at all? Yes but you can only buy them through the FW web store, not the actual physical stores, so the manager doesn't get credit for them, so some idiot managers try to ban them because they don't want someone to come in, see one getting played, and choose buy it instead of spending money in store. Usually an email to corporate will get someone to lean on them and change that policy.
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Jul 16, 2020 17:01
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Thanks for the info  Are GW/Warhammer stores franchised or are they centrally owned?
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Jul 16, 2020 17:17
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jesus WEP posted:Thanks for the info Centrally owned.
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Jul 16, 2020 17:27
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Finished the hell project that was my Taurox.   Suspension and wheels is the old Victoria miniatures and I can get why they made simpler version of it because it was not enjoyable to assemble because it was far too finicky and despite my best attempts one of the wheels ended up slightly askew. The turret hatch is from a Rhino, as my original idea of using the Repulsor minigun turret turned out badly due to it being way too big. Then I broke the fit on the regular turret ring when trying to get it off and get it onto the proper gun turret. Although in the end I prefer the Rhino hatch because it makes the top less flat in comparison. Didn't glue it on though in case I can find a replacement hatch at some point.
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Jul 16, 2020 17:54
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God dang that thing is rad! What's the latest on Arch? Is GW caving in to that chud?
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Jul 16, 2020 18:03
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jesus WEP posted:Thanks for the info Booley's right that they're centrally owned, but it cannot be emphasized enough that any given store manager is running a one-person operation and might as well be on an island as far as GW knows. The quality of management varies widely and GW is never going to know if it's bad without being told.
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Jul 16, 2020 18:04
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My GW store experience has been mixed. The manager of the local store when I first moved to this city was pretty obviously burning out hard on it (this was the guy, if anyone remembers my Death Thread posting from the AoS release, whose "grand prize" for the first in-store tournament for AoS was a plastic soup ladle he had spraypainted gold, a dollar-store trophy, and an old and busted ball-peen hammer). He tried really hard on those sales techniques, even on times when I was just coming in to pick up some Nuln Oil and get the hell out ASAP. When they rebranded from GW to Warhammer, the local store moved into a much larger renovated space and a new manager took over who is, from my limited experience in there, quite a bit better. Not super friendly and outgoing (I mean, this is Germany after all), but definitely not pushy. Shame the shop only really has room for one table and it's pretty much only used for demo games (that I still haven't ever worked up the nerve to ask for as a 33-year old perma-newbie to the game, and am not likely to do while COVID is still a thing).
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Jul 16, 2020 18:11
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I wouldn't worry about asking for a demo game, they don't really follow the rules. They will skip over complicated stuff and fudge dice rolls or even invent stuff to basically have your demo game showcase the game. For example, say that you're doing a demo game and the dude rolls shooting attacks at you and rolls all 6s, and then 6s again, and you roll four 1s and 2s on your armour saves on your 4 man intercessor squad. Do you really just continue or do you do something like "OK, you sergeant is wounded, let's try to rush him back into cover to call reinforcements" and then like deep strike some other unit onto the board and be like "For the Emperor!".
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Jul 16, 2020 18:43
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EdsTeioh posted:God dang that thing is rad! What's the latest on Arch? Is GW caving in to that chud? Why on earth would they? Arch is done.
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Jul 16, 2020 18:54
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Arch?
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Jul 16, 2020 18:58
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EdsTeioh posted:God dang that thing is rad! What's the latest on Arch? Is GW caving in to that chud? They have no real incentive to do so, he doesn't generate them any money. I'm not sure how the lawsuit would play out (especially given it'd be an international case) but Arch might have a good case to keep using Warhammer in his name but he doesn't have the resources to fight it and so he can throw his tantrum and his circle of loyal followers will stick around but at the very least it might ward off some of the people who aren't right-leaning but dont know about his proclivities.
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Jul 16, 2020 19:00
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