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adhuin posted:I'm pretty sure we all thought this back in the day. The more I think about it, the more I appreciate the decision to switch Knives and ITSOZ in the running order. Left as intended, S2 ends like this: "WHAT HAPPENED TO THE ICARUS?"  Oh poo poo, they're all dead?  Holy gently caress, Talia's a traitor!  OK, this is where Londo has his face turn and  "Are you willing to die friendless, alone, deserted by everyone?"  "By the end of 2259..."  Six power episodes in a row, and of those only Comes The Inquisitor doesn't have a season finale level event. There's no time to breathe.
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Jul 16, 2020 22:22
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drat, we still have Comes The Inquisitor before the finale, don't we? For some reason I always think of that as a 3rd season episode.
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Jul 17, 2020 00:26
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I haven't been to the newbie watch thread once, HOW HARD IS THIS. Just wait til they're done and you can't spoil anything!
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Jul 17, 2020 01:41
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Absurd Alhazred posted:This is why you gotta kick all the older civilizations out beyond the Rim. Hey... I’m chilling Lorn and just watching the younger races do their thing <remembers the bit after ZaHadun> ummmm I mean I’m his lazy brother Zorn who just wants to chill and smoke weed and you never actually saw Edit: actually I want to be the Zog guys as I would like that to be my default response to any question. “Zog!” DogsInSpace! fucked around with this message at 02:28 on Jul 17, 2020 |
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Jul 17, 2020 02:08
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McSpanky posted:I haven't been to the newbie watch thread once, HOW HARD IS THIS. Just wait til they're done and you can't spoil anything! You haven't posted, or you haven't read it? Reading it is like crack, lol.
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Jul 17, 2020 04:11
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It should be possible to bookmark a thread as read-only.
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Jul 17, 2020 04:29
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Son of Sam-I-Am posted:You haven't posted, or you haven't read it? Reading it is like crack, lol. Haven't read it. I'm used to waiting until shows are finished so I can watch them at my own pace, I can do the same for threads.
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Jul 17, 2020 04:57
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McSpanky posted:Haven't read it. I'm used to waiting until shows are finished so I can watch them at my own pace, I can do the same for threads. There's 3 people watching at different paces, so that will depend heavily on your definition of "finished."
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Jul 17, 2020 05:02
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Also I keep trying to get other people to do the same thing in the same thread so hopefully it's just a constant drip of newbies.
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Jul 17, 2020 05:30
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Son of Sam-I-Am posted:I'm extremely hype for just about every single episode in the entire rest of the show. Warn me about that why don'tcha?? You should not be hype about the first half of s5
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Jul 17, 2020 05:36
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I was thinking more about how the Narn and Centauri were both at fault for pushing towards war, and how the biggest difference between G'kar and Londo was that G'kar was explicitly out for blood and the demise of Centauri Prime while for Londo violence was only vaguely implicit until it happened. There's a lot of symmetry between G'kar's and Londo's sins at least, before G'kar had his final revelation. G'kar had an old rival send an assassin after him upon his own death (who G'kar cheerfully sent to a fate worse than death), Londo had an old friend forcing Londo to kill him in a duel. G'kar was skeevy as hell about women, Londo was a thrice-unhappily-married man cheating on his wives. G'kar was angry at the humiliation of having to buy a sacred plant for a narn ritual, Londo was angry at the humiliation of the Centauri Republic having to buy a sacred artifact of the first emperor of the republic, and since Londo was so frustrated and nervous about the whole thing, that was when he wound up giving Mr. Molden an answer he was happy with. Londo's attempted assassination of G'kar really parallels G'kar's psychic assault of Londo. And if you zoom out, the Centauri wanting to make a move on an aggressive Narn outpost that the Shadows take care of mirrors the Narn attempted conquest of Ragesh 3, and both the Narn and the Centauri are just as warlike as the other. When the show begins, Centauri aggression has been on the wane for a long while, and Narn aggression is on full blast, to the point of directly assisting pirates, and the pressures of politics and the Shadow's gentle prodding reignites the old Centauri ways and smothers the Narn. They were both wrong to attack when they attacked. Hopefully post-B5 they'll learn to change. G'kar really goes the whole nine yards and then some to redeem himself and try setting the Narn on another path. Londo doesn't exactly, but he also had less of a chance. Maybe Vir could manage to do the same? That's also a reason why Vir was so vital for the show to keep around as opposed to Na'toth. Vir and Londo formed such a complete dynamic of opposites evening eachother out as foils, whereas Na'toth was just kind of...a junior G'kar. Less horny and a little more fighty. She didn't complete G'kar; G'kar completed himself with his own character growth. Na'toth was sadly superfluous.
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Jul 17, 2020 05:40
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McSpanky posted:Haven't read it. I'm used to waiting until shows are finished so I can watch them at my own pace, I can do the same for threads. aww, you're missing out it's great. Honestly I normally don't give the slightest of craps about spoilers, but watching them tiptoe into the The Good Bit completely blind is so exciting.
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Jul 17, 2020 05:45
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We live for the one who has not watched the show before, we die for the one who has not watched the show before.
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Jul 17, 2020 11:46
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Just saw A View From the Gallery. It is not a good episode. Also is it just me or are the telepaths abilities kind of all over the place in comparison to the previous seasons? Like I kind of thought the ability to project images and memories into another person's mind was a Lyta special, but then you have the mute kid doing it and the other telepaths were acting like it was an unusual thing to be able to do only for Byron to give Beau the Starfury Pilot Experience in this episode.
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Jul 17, 2020 12:34
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McCloud posted:You should not be hype about the first half of s5 Don't tell me what I can't hype. 
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Jul 17, 2020 13:10
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SlothfulCobra posted:I was thinking more about how the Narn and Centauri were both at fault for pushing towards war, and how the biggest difference between G'kar and Londo was that G'kar was explicitly out for blood and the demise of Centauri Prime while for Londo violence was only vaguely implicit until it happened. Awesome analysis that I hadn't considered before but makes a lot of sense. I love this show more every day.
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Jul 17, 2020 14:31
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Eighties ZomCom posted:Just saw A View From the Gallery. There's always a bit of creep in the abilities of fictional things, because most of the time you're trying to provoke a specific audience reaction rather than tell stories about a certain set of abilities. The Weeping Angels from Doctor Who being a prime example.
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Jul 17, 2020 14:51
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Well, the telepaths we see in S5 are the ones specifically that psicorps didn't send out in the world. Also remember that telepaths were used by the shadows as cores for their shadowcrabs, and were created by the vorlons in the first place. So it's entirely possible that the shadows had been monkeying around with telepaths on earth trying to generate stronger cores.
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Jul 17, 2020 15:07
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From Mind War in series 1 onwards it's clear that Psi Corps have been experimenting.
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Jul 17, 2020 16:00
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And the information we get about telepaths is mostly from Psi Corps so who knows what they can actually do when they're allowed to.
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Jul 17, 2020 16:21
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SlothfulCobra posted:I was thinking more about how the Narn and Centauri were both at fault for pushing towards war, and how the biggest difference between G'kar and Londo was that G'kar was explicitly out for blood and the demise of Centauri Prime while for Londo violence was only vaguely implicit until it happened. Yes, Londo and G'Kar are mirrored in a lot of ways. It's interesting because Londo's descent is precipitated because of the Narns relentless aggression. In many ways the narn sowed the seeds for their own second occupation when they tried to bully the Centauri. Londos sense of impotence is what made him sell his soul to the devil. I wonder, if emperor turlan had scheduled his visit just a couple of months earlier, how much grief could have been avoided.
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Jul 17, 2020 16:54
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Eighties ZomCom posted:Just saw A View From the Gallery. Yeah, it's such a wasted episode. Compare it to Buffy's "The Zeppo", where they took a sidekick and actually built an actual story for him while the "important" stuff was happening all around, which later had some arc significance. This, instead, was just another way to say how cool all the main characters are.
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Jul 17, 2020 17:21
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TKO is not a great episode, I will die on this hill. Also, I'm really curious how somebody reacts when they watch The Fall of Night for the first time in today's political climate. I'm basically spamming F5 in the blind watch thread.
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Jul 17, 2020 18:19
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Is Gkar’s “dead dead dead dead...” speech in Comes the Inquisitor? I want to post my thoughts on that in the newbie thread but I want to make sure I’m replying to the post about that episode!
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Jul 17, 2020 18:41
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ConfusedUs posted:Is Gkar’s “dead dead dead dead...” speech in Comes the Inquisitor? I want to post my thoughts on that in the newbie thread but I want to make sure I’m replying to the post about that episode! You know if they feel like getting knowing commentary they can just come here, right?
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Jul 17, 2020 18:42
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ConfusedUs posted:Is Gkar’s “dead dead dead dead...” speech in Comes the Inquisitor? I want to post my thoughts on that in the newbie thread but I want to make sure I’m replying to the post about that episode! 
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Jul 17, 2020 18:43
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Posting "I also liked the scene between Vir and G'Kar very much  " is hardly a spoiler and would mean TheAardvark isn't solo posting in the blind watch thread.It obviously depends on the comment, ConfusedUs could always post the text here for confirmation whether it's okay for the other thread or not.
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Jul 17, 2020 18:44
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Torrannor posted:Posting "I also liked the scene between Vir and G'Kar very much Exactly that!
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Jul 17, 2020 18:45
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ConfusedUs posted:Is Gkar’s “dead dead dead dead...” speech in Comes the Inquisitor? I want to post my thoughts on that in the newbie thread but I want to make sure I’m replying to the post about that episode! Your answer is in the top result if you google for “g’kar dead dead dead” but I guess that’s too hard to do.
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Jul 17, 2020 19:58
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Midjack posted:Your answer is in the top result if you google for “g’kar dead dead dead” but I guess that’s too hard to do. Oh no, someone asking a question about Babylon 5 in the Babylon 5 thread. Whatever shall we do?!
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Jul 17, 2020 20:05
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I know that when people talk about "the elevator scene" there's only one thing they mean, but there's so many dang great scenes in and around elevators. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=YZfgWdsppVM https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0oHtLmjKRbE https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=YbckvO7VYxk
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Jul 17, 2020 20:10
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I was always unclear about the big Centauri empire. Did it still exist recently enough for Londo to know it firsthand or is he pining for something long gone that he never experienced? Like I know the Narns gaining their freedom was recent, but was that the height of Centauri power or the most recent instance of their decline?
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Jul 17, 2020 20:16
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Just goes to show you how awesome Vir is, that even after getting blamed he still goes forward and saves a bunch of Narns. It'd be so easy for someone to take umbrage in that situation and say "well you have my thoughts and prayers I guess"
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Jul 17, 2020 20:17
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Grand Fromage posted:I was always unclear about the big Centauri empire. Did it still exist recently enough for Londo to know it firsthand or is he pining for something long gone that he never experienced? Like I know the Narns gaining their freedom was recent, but was that the height of Centauri power or the most recent instance of their decline? I had thought the loss of Narn started the decline but I guess the timeline doesn't add up.
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Jul 17, 2020 20:27
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Grand Fromage posted:I was always unclear about the big Centauri empire. Did it still exist recently enough for Londo to know it firsthand or is he pining for something long gone that he never experienced? Like I know the Narns gaining their freedom was recent, but was that the height of Centauri power or the most recent instance of their decline? I always got the impression that the Centauri Empire was kind of in the same place as the British Empire in the late 90s- Londo may have been born with Centauri rule over a fair number of worlds, but over his childhood/adolescence they had gained independence fairly rapidly. I guess in this analogy Narn is Hong Kong, sort of. Not an exact one to one comparison but in the same kind of area.
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Jul 17, 2020 20:32
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http://b5epguide.tripod.com/chronology.html says the Centauri empire began declining in 2150. I think that's based off one of the novels which had some details about early contact between Earth and the Centauri.
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Jul 17, 2020 20:36
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That seems reasonable. I haven't read any of the books yet so I was thinking they might have deets.
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Jul 17, 2020 20:41
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If that chronology is right then Londo was born 50 years after the peak. So he probably "remembers" the glory in the way that his family molded him. Also he was in one of the big families where the glory would still be all around him.
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Jul 17, 2020 20:47
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I think the biggest example that comes to mind is the soul drinker, how Londo knew about it and also knew that the Centauri were supposed to have the planet blockaded, but that got cut for budget reasons. There's also how the Republic's territory keeps receding, and how a colony world on the fringe of Centauri space is unsafe from attack. It's like seeing rocks fall one by one from a crumbling cliffside that you were once told was a mountain. Then there's things like how Londo himself is in decay. He's at some meaningless post because his career stalled, his family isn't doing great, his wives are unbearable, and his prospects for the future were bleak. On the day that Mr. Morden asked Londo what he wanted, Londo was holding a symbol of the decay of the Centauri under his arm. The most important artifact of the republic, held under his arm, that the Centauri had to buy off of a shady ask-no-questions man in a backroom. He told Morden, "I want to stop running through my life like a man late for an appointment, afraid to look back, or to look forward." Which seems like a very personal comment about how he's spent so much time cleaning up messes from the short-sightedness of the decaying empire, but unable to do anything meaningful for its future. And then after he left Morden behind, he failed. The Eye got stolen. The Centauri were once again inadequate and incapable, and Londo's career would've ended there if it weren't for some interference.
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Jul 17, 2020 21:21
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CainFortea posted:Just goes to show you how awesome Vir is, that even after getting blamed he still goes forward and saves a bunch of Narns. It'd be so easy for someone to take umbrage in that situation and say "well you have my thoughts and prayers I guess" It's probable that this encounter is what made Vir realize that apologies and "thoughts and prayers"-level stuff just isn't enough, and that he started looking for a way to actually help - leading to our friend Abrahamo Lincolni.
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Jul 17, 2020 21:35
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