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Exactly. We'll want this performance more than ever as new consoles up the power requirements dramatically. And overall, I always recommend buying new GPUs as close to launch as possible. They simply don't deflate in price quickly enough to justify waiting vs. the utility of having the extra performance immediately, generally speaking (imo). Though of course there are always exceptions to that rule if you're careful and lucky. I got my 2080 over a year ago for $500 because Frys Electronics was running an extremely short-sighted "first 20 people in the store get like 25% off" deal and forgot to exclude low-margin items like GPUs (they did exclude GPUs a week or two later but it was too late for the ones they already let walk out the door).
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Jul 17, 2020 20:34
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K8.0 posted:DS is a current-gen game, built for a console with a GPU that is something like an HD 7950. With the PS5 having something in the vicinity of a 5700XT worth of GPU power demands are about to spike dramatically. There's no question that framerates are going to start cratering within a year or two, what DS does a good job proving is how loving good DLSS 2.0 is. Doubling your framerate while improving image quality is not the sort of thing that happens anymore. And yes, there will still be plenty of games released through 2021 and maybe even into 2022 that have PS4/Bone versions (and thus theoretically are/can be less demanding on the PC version), but that's not going to be everything, and also a lot of those versions are not going to be experiences you actually want to have on PS4/XBone level hardware. Yeah, this is another good way of looking at it: the perf improvements will be needed once the new console gen is driving new graphical fidelity and features. That's a year or two away min, so paying major $$$ for the 30xx seems premature as does considering DLSS a required feature yet. The underlying tech will be soon enough, but just not yet I think. E: Which is to say I'll happily jump on a 3080 Ti right loving now if it's priced in what I consider an appropriate fashion. I like both RT and DLSS just want to see pricing in this competition-challenged market. v1ld fucked around with this message at 20:38 on Jul 17, 2020 |
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Jul 17, 2020 20:35
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Just out of curiosity, what price point would make you hop to a 3080Ti? Speaking personally there's no way I'm not buying it, but that's because my system is being hobbled to poo poo by lack of HDMI 2.1. That's obviously not something that applies to most people though, so I am pretty curious what people think is reasonable. Though, I'm sure that depends a lot on your income and/or frugality.
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Jul 17, 2020 20:41
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Taima posted:Just out of curiosity, what price point would make you hop to a 3080Ti? Anywhere between $800-$1400 depending on the performance on offer. It's the perf/$ that's important to me, not either in isolation. Though the higher ends of that range run the risk of having great perf/$ lying unused for a few years so it's overpriced by when you need it. It's very hard to quantify perf/$ especially as we're looking at that number increasing through a generational jump. So how's this for a first cut model of it? Would love to see feedback to get a better one: - Call the 2070S at $500 a good representative of xx70 pricing for the 20xx gen. - If the 3070 shows a 20-25% jump in performance at the same price or at a similar ratio. - ... then I'd be happy to buy the 3080 Ti of that series. Ugh, messy. But simple enough in my mind. If the 3070 shows a 20-25% jump over the 2070 at the same price, I'm going to wait until the Supers come out. Or not, depending on CP2077 and the difference in quality of the game with RT. E: Given what you've said of your monitor, HDMI 2.1 is a sound reason to jump. v1ld fucked around with this message at 20:54 on Jul 17, 2020 |
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Jul 17, 2020 20:49
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Taima posted:If Nvidia doesn't step it up with its Linux integration, they are in danger of losing Truga's lucrative business. Well, I mean, he isn't going to buy anything so that's not strictly true, but Truga will be very critical of Nvidia on internet message boards. what the gently caress is this post Kazinsal posted:I find it funny that finally Linux gaming is viable, not because people started porting poo poo to Linux, but because a near-monopolistic digital games marketplace company threw a bunch of money into a fork of wine and dxvk, and their fork works really well if you go for rampant consumerism anyways and buy a new high end graphics card from a near-monopolistic tech company. yeah it's quite good because everyone profited off of valve throwing a bunch of money at wine. you don't even need steam/proton anymore for dxvk to work well now Truga fucked around with this message at 20:54 on Jul 17, 2020 |
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Jul 17, 2020 20:51
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Truga posted:what the gently caress is this post Sorry I just can't take linux gaming seriously in any way, shape or form. I'm happy to hear why I should though, if I'm missing something important. I've tried looking it up out of curiosity and it seems like there's just a bunch of crazy "don't steal my data and also the government will collapse and only Linux will be affordable and then I'll be the one laughing" people. Then there's the "I switched and my friends thought I was CRAZY but I showed them and it only crashed 3 times that night and could run with most of the same settings! Owned!" people. v1ld posted:Anywhere between $800-$1400 depending on the performance on offer. It's the perf/$ that's important to me, not either in isolation. Though the higher ends of that range run the risk of having great perf/$ lying unused for a few years so it's overpriced by when you need it. Yeah, that's fair. I couldn't do much better... and I think those numbers are reasonable (both in terms of where the buy intersection is, and also what kind of performance we can reasonably expect in a per-gen jump). The part where it gets messy for me is figuring out where more efficient RTX comes into the equation, in terms of overall valuation. There's also the possibility that DLSS itself may work more efficiently on the new cards. e: truth be told though I don't know the tech well enough to know if/how DLSS can work better on new cards. Is that possible? I kind of assume they can just throw more efficient, or numerically more, RT cores at it, but I could easily be talking out of my rear end here so if someone who knows poo poo about this would elucidate that would be awesome. Taima fucked around with this message at 21:28 on Jul 17, 2020 |
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Jul 17, 2020 20:58
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Taima posted:e: truth be told though I don't know the tech well enough to know if/how DLSS can work better on new cards. Is that possible? I kind of assume they can just throw more efficient, or numerically more, RT cores at it, but I could easily be talking out of my rear end here so if someone who knows poo poo about this would elucidate that would be awesome.  I suppose it's possible they could reduce the DLSS cost further, but it's already stupidly well optimised. Maybe improvements in cache sizes and memory bandwidth will result in inherent performance improvements. I think the larger Turing GPUs do have a higher number of Tensor units, so perhaps the lower-end Ampere GPUs might get near higher-end Turing GPU DLSS performance from density improvements alone.
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Jul 17, 2020 21:30
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Beautiful Ninja posted:And dear heavens I don't trust AMD to have functional software to make any of this poo poo work for RDNA 2 at launch anyway, it took them close to a year to get Navi out the driver dumpster. Drivers for Vega/Navi1 are still firmly in dumpster territory. Not a word on the periodic clock drops/blackscreen/crashing issue for a year, other than moving it in and out of the changelogs 'known issues'. The latest desperate fad on r/amd (if using the Vulkan wrapper doesn't keep older games from nosediving) seems to be installing the Pro WX drivers.
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Jul 17, 2020 21:57
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Even on a 2080Ti ~3ms for dual 4k vr would be less than ideal, so there's still room for improvement. Latency is a big deal and every bit you can shave off matters a lot, especially in VR. That said, in most cases DLSS will break even or reduce total latency by increasing the framerate. If you could go from 90 FPS (11ms/frame) to 140 FPS (7ms/frame+3ms DLSS frame construction) you'd still come out slightly ahead on a 2080Ti. There's really no saying how tensor performance will look on next-gen, we'll just have to wait and see.
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Jul 17, 2020 22:01
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K8.0 posted:Even on a 2080Ti ~3ms for dual 4k vr would be less than ideal, so there's still room for improvement. Nvidia currently isn't pushing DLSS for VR anyway, why not is anyone's guess. Even if MSAA is still better than reconstruction in VR it would be nice to have a better TAA for those VR games that use deferred shading and can't support MSAA.
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Jul 17, 2020 22:07
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K8.0 posted:Even on a 2080Ti ~3ms for dual 4k vr would be less than ideal, so there's still room for improvement. Latency is a big deal and every bit you can shave off matters a lot, especially in VR. That said, in most cases DLSS will break even or reduce total latency by increasing the framerate. If you could go from 90 FPS (11ms/frame) to 140 FPS (7ms/frame+3ms DLSS frame construction) you'd still come out slightly ahead on a 2080Ti. There's really no saying how tensor performance will look on next-gen, we'll just have to wait and see. It seems like you could maybe combine the motion vector processing of DLSS with timewarp/spacewarp...somehow to get back a bit of that overhead in a VR situation.
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Jul 17, 2020 23:42
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A bit skeptical about the launch of consoles requiring an immediate GPU upgrade. We usually see a year of cross gen games and this will be lengthened even further this time round with Microsoft de-emphasising console generations with their talk of having games running across generations. By the time it becomes an issue, we’re talking the launch of the 4-series. And I’d wait to see if you need to upgrade other system components. If you’re looking to buy a 3080ti, 3090, the prices are likely to be high enough that you might as well consider buying the consoles anyway.
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Jul 17, 2020 23:42
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I've been hearing "Now THIS will make Linux finally come for gaming" for like 20 years now. And it'll probably be whatever the next gen VR is that will convince me to move up the GPU ladder again.
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Jul 17, 2020 23:55
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Lockback posted:I've been hearing "Now THIS will make Linux finally come for gaming" for like 20 years now. it quietly arrived about a year ago, when about 50% of top 1000 games for windows work flawlessly via dxvk and another 26% have native support. i'm not going to try to convince anyone to install linux here, if you like your windows you can keep it. also, in 2020 gaming on linux is great.
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Jul 18, 2020 00:04
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Two of our regular coop group members are Linux people and they have some kind of hitch when they first run a game about half the time but it’s usually fixable and the performance is fine. In fact I think it’s always been fixable, the one time we had to wait a few days for a fix was the shift shitshow on BL3
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Jul 18, 2020 00:17
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Taima posted:Just out of curiosity, what price point would make you hop to a 3080Ti? Speaking for myself, I'm currently on a 1080ti and I would happily move to a 3080ti for £1000 if it's 60-70% faster at 4k. DLSS2.0 is the icing on the cake that could potentially lead me to try an 8KTV to replace my ageing 4KTV.
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Jul 18, 2020 00:23
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Proton seems good for people that are on linux for productivity stuff. Seems weird to poo poo on giving people more options to play.
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Jul 18, 2020 00:23
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Linux, Windows, and consoles are all perfectly fine and legitimate ways to enjoy video games. Some people get real weird about it I guess? I just like Linux and find it nice to use and it's cool to play Dark Souls or whatever with my friends without rebooting into Windows.
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Jul 18, 2020 00:37
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unimportantguy posted:Linux, Windows, and consoles are all perfectly fine and legitimate ways to enjoy video games. Some people get real weird about it I guess? I just like Linux and find it nice to use and it's cool to play Dark Souls or whatever with my friends without rebooting into Windows. People get weird about it when some people try to claim that Linux support by AMD/NVidia/anyone for games is something that is important enough that people other than the ~5% of the population that uses it should care about, and/or that support/lack of support is going to somehow be a factor in how well a video card sells. Past that, yeah, whatever, play games however you want. Who cares if it's awkward and requires extra effort? If you wanna do that, go hog wild. It'd be like me telling you that you shouldn't enjoy playing game X because I don't like game X--total bullshit.
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Jul 18, 2020 00:46
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There are some people who are oddly rabid about hating Linux. It doesn't make a lot of sense, really, unless they are carrying some kind of grudge from being scorned or looked down upon for using Windows at some point in the olden days.  I tend to do most of my gaming in Windows out of habit and laziness, but that's partly influenced because I've run dual-boots for the better part of 20 years. At home I have thought of Windows as a gaming platform and little else, while I do the bulk of my computer use in Linux. It's nice knowing I can run stuff in Steam even when booted into Linux, and the limited amount of use I've made of it has been good. I think it's weird that there is still such a perception that Linux desktops are difficult or not as good as Windows or Mac when they have been pretty much at parity for years now, but I don't get all bent out of shape about it.
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Jul 18, 2020 00:49
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I mean Nvidia provides CUDA toolkit support for Windows when 95% of users are on Linux. They spend a fair bit of time on Linux support these days so it's not odd to ask for game support.
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Jul 18, 2020 00:50
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I was just looking at https://www.protondb.com/ and almost every game I have installed seems to work fine with it. I moved on to the Arch wiki to see what dual boot looks like these days. There's also VFIO as an option, does anyone game with that?
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Jul 18, 2020 00:52
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CaptainSarcastic posted:There are some people who are oddly rabid about Linux.
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Jul 18, 2020 01:16
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NVidia should finally fix multi-monitor idle on Linux.
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Jul 18, 2020 01:18
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NVidia makes a shitton of money from their Linux and FreeBSD drivers. And it's not all about CUDA, but that plays a very important part. Game specific support like they have on Windows? Probably will never happen, because you're right, they don't care about those 0.5% of those 5% linux users that want to play games on Linux.
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Jul 18, 2020 01:37
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Nvidia offers lots of per game optimizations for their *nix/BSD driver... its just for the NVN API and their ARM CPUs.  Supposedly the driver used in the Switch is broadly similar to their *nix driver.The Switch (and inevitable Switch 2) is also why I don't think minimum specs are gonna explode for most games. The attach rate for switch releases, especially indie games, has been hugely higher on the Switch than releases on the other consoles platforms. If you are making a multiplatform game (with the possible exception of dark shootymans games), it just has to run on the Switch at some minimum level.
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Jul 18, 2020 02:01
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Zedsdeadbaby posted:Speaking for myself, I'm currently on a 1080ti and I would happily move to a 3080ti for £1000 if it's 60-70% faster at 4k. DLSS2.0 is the icing on the cake that could potentially lead me to try an 8KTV to replace my ageing 4KTV. Fair enough. I think if you're including DLSS in the 60-70% number, that is extremely achievable, perhaps even greater gains beyond that. Though RTX does make it hard to make an apples-to-apples comparison. Only problem is, will the drat thing be £1000... and even if it is, will be it be £1000 at retail... I'm feeling optimistic about it though. I think you're gonna get there. As for 8K, may I suggest a 4K OLED instead? HDMI 2.1 VRR, super low response times, amazing color and contrast, 4K/120. Cygni posted:The Switch (and inevitable Switch 2) is also why I don't think minimum specs are gonna explode for most games. The attach rate for switch releases, especially indie games, has been hugely higher on the Switch than releases on the other consoles platforms. If you are making a multiplatform game (with the possible exception of dark shootymans games), it just has to run on the Switch at some minimum level. Hmm, I mean that's definitely an interesting concept. So you think almost all AAA titles that aren't exclusives will come to Switch? I mean we're already seeing divergence from that ala RDR2 (just to name one example that came immediately to mind). I do think that the Switch 2 will be incredibly more apt for these conversions due to, presumably, DLSS being involved. Though it's hard to say for sure given how notoriously cheap Nintendo is in the cost of their console parts. Taima fucked around with this message at 02:17 on Jul 18, 2020 |
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Jul 18, 2020 02:06
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The overwhelming majority of games I’ve bought in the last year aren’t on Switch (like, at least 250 out of 300 or so). Some aren’t on any consoles because of interface stuff, but even a lot of the AA stuff that works fine on consoles is just too much for it. I don’t even know how well DLSS would help, since it’s not like the switch is usually pushing all that many pixels- it’s struggling with 720p handheld/1080p TV. Nintendo is extremely cheap on hardware so they turn a profit on each unit sold, and a lot of the switch’s attach rate is a mix of Nintendo games and indie games/ eshop shovelware. Even with DLSS CPU requirements are going to hobble any kind of game that has to be able to run in a portable mode, so even if the Switch 2 comes out and is running current gen stuff, once the cross-gen stuff is over I see the ports basically drying up. Nintendo’s whole approach to hardware has kept them out of pushing system requirements forwards for decades.
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Jul 18, 2020 02:26
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Ugly In The Morning posted:The overwhelming majority of games I’ve bought in the last year aren’t on Switch (like, at least 250 out of 300 or so). wait what  But yeah i mean the majority of the games i play are on the PC as well, to the point where my xbox and PS4 havent been turned on in like over a year, but the stuff about the Switch market is absolutely for real for the indie games especially. The Hollow Knight devs talked about it in an interview i read a while back. Switch already has a bigger install base than all the Xbones despite being released 4 years after it, has way higher games/console rate and time in use stats than any other console, and its currently outselling the Xbone+PS4 combined. I assume thats gonna be different once the new consoles launch, but still. Ubi is the big developer thats really ignored the Switch, so far. Dunno how long they can afford to do that.
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Jul 18, 2020 04:04
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sauer kraut posted:Drivers for Vega/Navi1 are still firmly in dumpster territory. Not a word on the periodic clock drops/blackscreen/crashing issue for a year, other than moving it in and out of the changelogs 'known issues'. As an owner of a vega56 i don't see see them being a dumpster fire, they have been good the vast majority of the time. The blackscreen/ did effect me for about 2 months but an update in may? april? fixed it.
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Jul 18, 2020 05:23
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Taima posted:If Nvidia doesn't step it up with its Linux integration, they are in danger of losing Truga's lucrative business. Well, I mean, he isn't going to buy anything so that's not strictly true, but Truga will be very critical of Nvidia on internet message boards. The problem with Nvidia is that they don't care enough about making a good Linux driver while still caring enough to not declassify the proprietary details so that Linux geeks can make their own. The reason AMD is preferred on Linux is because people who want to run Linux have made an AMD driver that runs better than any AMD could be assed to make. It even runs Windows games better than AMD's driver on native Windows does sometime. If it was something as simple as no competitive secret sauce technologies like DLSS, 3D Vision, Optix/RTX, sure fine. But what the public coding world knows of Nvidia software side is just enough to display a desktop picture. Running games under Nouveau, even old games, is an rear end experience. There's also just random poo poo like how the idle power consumption is so much higher than Windows because Nvidia simply doesn't give a gently caress. Taima posted:Sorry I just can't take linux gaming seriously in any way, shape or form. I'm happy to hear why I should though, if I'm missing something important. The sandboxing/isolation of games into different environments that can each run different configurations is kind of nice, especially if you're into old games from the days before NT was mainstreamed. Running retro shooters from the late 90s on Windows 10 is kind of a crapshoot, even if you enable compatibility mode or whatever. Being able to install ancient games from their native installers WITHOUT worrying about them modifying the registry or installing ancient libraries in the base OS that I run for everyday tasks is rather nice. Running each game in it's own WINE environment means I don't have to cringe if I try to install game from 2003 and it wants to add GameSpy poo poo and Bonzi Buddy to my installation or something. There's a program called Lutris that is basically a launcher that integrates your GOG library, your Steam games (it will launch Steam and the game by id), but also includes a database of scripts so if I want to play Unreal Tournament from 1999 I just search for Unreal Tournament in a GUI, click install, and it configures a new environment with whatever customization is necessary and maybe downloads a known version of WINE that is known to not break the game. Then it asks you to either insert the CD or point to an ISO, and it'll fire up that old InstallShield wizard with it's now postage-stamp sized installer art. And to top it all off, they'll add a launch shortcut to your base desktop's application menu. And the whole drat thing lives in my Games folder, with nothing added to my registry or any autolaunch script to disable or any other anachronistic trash. Craptacular! fucked around with this message at 06:23 on Jul 18, 2020 |
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Jul 18, 2020 05:47
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That Variable Refresh Rate menu option in Windows 10's graphics settings, that's supposed to force games with V-Sync into VRR, does that even work? I'm playing the new MSFS, which churns out maybe 45fps, is v-synced, yet my display's internal refresh rate overlay says 120hz (which is the current max. refresh rate). It does change when there's actual VRR going on, so it tells me it's not going anything. --edit: Nevermind, turns out having video playing on the side fucks it up. Combat Pretzel fucked around with this message at 13:47 on Jul 18, 2020 |
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Jul 18, 2020 13:24
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Combat Pretzel posted:That Variable Refresh Rate menu option in Windows 10's graphics settings, that's supposed to force games with V-Sync into VRR, does that even work? I'm playing the new MSFS, which churns out maybe 45fps, is v-synced, yet my display's internal refresh rate overlay says 120hz (which is the current max. refresh rate). It does change when there's actual VRR going on, so it tells me it's not going anything. I believe that setting only affects UWP games.
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Jul 18, 2020 13:50
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The new MSFS is one. Still doesn't seem to work without fiddling. I need to enable G-Sync for windowed apps for it to kick in. And if video decoding is active, even on a secondary display in an unfocused window, it'll essentially disable it. Weird.
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Jul 18, 2020 13:59
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wargames posted:As an owner of a vega56 i don't see see them being a dumpster fire, they have been good the vast majority of the time. The blackscreen/ did effect me for about 2 months but an update in may? april? fixed it. I haven’t kept up with AMD recently — where does Vega56 fall in, 2060-70 level? Out of curiosity, anybody know what the best price per frame card right now? e: and holy poo poo Bonzi Buddy, haven’t heard that name in a couple decades tehinternet fucked around with this message at 14:11 on Jul 18, 2020 |
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Jul 18, 2020 14:08
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tehinternet posted:I haven’t kept up with AMD recently — where does Vega56 fall in, 2060-70 level? It’s a little faster than a 1070ti but is hotter and louder.
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Jul 18, 2020 14:13
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shrike82 posted:A bit skeptical about the launch of consoles requiring an immediate GPU upgrade. We usually see a year of cross gen games and this will be lengthened even further this time round with Microsoft de-emphasising console generations with their talk of having games running across generations. It's still all speculation, but I think the logic here flows: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=WebInZUvcGA It does feel plausible that this generation of consoles will be different to previous ones in that they're getting new tech either simultaneously or slightly before it's available on PC. I don't think it means immediate upgrade (unless you were planning to anyway), but we could easily see a faster acceleration of console game requirements than slower.
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Jul 18, 2020 15:04
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TechPowerUps sources say the 12 pin power connector is real
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Jul 18, 2020 16:29
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quote:Looking at the keying, we can see that it will not be possible to connect two classic six-pins to it. For example pin 1 is square on the PCIe 6-pin, but on NVIDIA's 12-pin is has one corner angled. It also won't be possible to use weird combinations like 8-pin + EPS 4 pin, or similar—NVIDIA made sure people won't be able to connect their cables the wrong way. Gotta buy a new PSU, modular cable, or an adapter.
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Jul 18, 2020 16:35
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OhFunny posted:Gotta buy a new PSU, modular cable, or an adapter. Part of me doubts a company would create a new connector for their card and not include an adapter but it's Nvidia so who knows.
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Jul 18, 2020 16:37
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