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Looks like a few more windings in the replacement?
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Jul 15, 2020 22:17
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Maybe, I'm not sure. The replacement was whatever the parts store had on the shelf the day my starter died in my red 98 back in 2013-2014ish. I'm not sure it officially fits an 88 but it bolted right up and works so I'm not complaining. Honcho is getting closer, another major subsystem is complete. Milling the second 12 bolt pattern on the fuel cell for the fuel sender adapter housing I made:  Made the hold-down plate too, same OD and bolt pattern, different ID:  (I was planning aluminum or stainless but Jack had a scrap of acrylic sitting here and neither of us wanted to listen to a piece of 1/8 plate singing for half an hour. If it warps, I'll make a metal one) Test fit the sender, adapter already bolted down. I'd make the center bore 20 thou bigger next time, no other changes really.  Fully assembled in the truck.  Doesn't look half bad.  I also finished stripping, pruning, and adjusting the length on the rear harness from the PDC to the fuel tank equipment, then reloomed it and installed it. And spent some significant time pruning the harness areas that connect from the engine, ECU, and PDC to the cab. I think a plan is starting to come together on what's going where. I'm 99% sure the wiring is complete enough to start (with the light switches  ) so as soon as I hook hptuners up to it for the VATS delete and some other stuff, install the fuel filter and a few remaining fuel connections at the tank end, and toss some gas in the tank it should be ready for first start.
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Jul 16, 2020 02:22
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Is the adapter that tall to accommodate the fuel pump module without having to modify it? That’s a GM unit from the same can the engine came from, right? I discovered those things when I had to change the fuel pump on our 2000 Astro. Pretty dang neat unit, and you don’t have to baffle the tank with it.
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Jul 18, 2020 22:41
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Basically. It's spring loaded so it'll fit anything from like a 14in to 16in tank, but my fuel cell is only 12 inches deep. My material for it was 2.125 thick so I just left it full height. You can get essentially the same exact sender unit but in multiple heights just by carefully selecting the donor - for example a Tahoe one is like 9ish inches tall (iirc), g3500 is like 11 or 12, Sierra is 14 to 16, etc. Verify all those numbers, they're rough and I haven't thought about them at all in weeks. I hit coil bind on the preload springs in it or it would have fit with a shorter adapter. I may start making these for sale if there's enough interest because apparently no one makes an adapter for factory LS senders in fuel cells, and I just did. I could have used a shorter sender if I was willing to pop it apart (it doesn't even require tools beyond a flat blade screwdriver) and cut most of the spring out before reassembling, but I was able to avoid that for no cost. I certainly wouldn't think twice about doing it if I had to in the future based on what parts I had on hand.
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Jul 18, 2020 23:03
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Gotcha. I figured it was something like that. Making the one you had work with what you had on hand without too much custom modification. I felt pretty confident that I could have shortened the one from our Astro van quite a bit with a little work. That was where I first noted those modules. I think I’ll go that route in my Cutlass, particularly since I scavenged a mint used GM A-body fuel tank at the last Pate swap meet last year. Simeon didn’t want to take it home on Sunday. Saved me dealing with either buying a new one ($100) or working with my original that still has fuel in it. This ones been dry for over a year, at least, so shouldn’t be scary.  Just need to measure and pick a module. Probably the shortest available.
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Jul 22, 2020 22:31
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The cheap brands on rockauto are REALLY cheap for this stuff. I paid 36 dollars for that e3500m Sierra sender. I'd be worried but I'll be carrying the junkyard Tahoe one I paid 25 for (rip-off in hindsight, had no idea they were this cheap new) as a spare, and with it mounted in the bed like this, it's not even slightly daunting as a roadside repair, I'll have a nice bed rail to sit on and all the access in the world  I'm going to get the rest of the wiring done-ish tomorrow hopefully and maybe even first start. I think I have all the parts except some loom tubing and an evap vent valve, and I may have that. What kind of loom tubing are people fans of these days? I don't want the cheap lovely parts store/home depot stuff that's soft and weak and crumbles or melts after a few years, I want OEM grade. I'm currently looking at UV resistant high temp split loom on delcity and unfortunately they don't seem to list the manufacturer or part number. I'm not a fan of the woven stuff, it collects mud too effectively off-road.
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Jul 24, 2020 04:10
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In my experience, OEM grade split loom crumbles too, so if there's something better I'd also like to know.
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Jul 24, 2020 13:20
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Yeah, it just takes a lot longer from what I've seen. So far I've actually been reusing the factory stuff I pulled off the 03 Savana harness because, well, I've been procrastinating on buying new.
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Jul 24, 2020 15:25
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Split Loom is for scrubs that don't have dozens of hours of free time on their hands. Cable Lacing is the way to go. 
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Jul 24, 2020 17:36
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I can cable lace (hell I have rolls of waxed lacing twine in my attic), and I would if this was a clean environment, but I'm trying to keep oil, mud, road debris, and other automotive fluids off my wiring under the hood. So split loom tubing it is.
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Jul 25, 2020 00:35
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WELL https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=LkKgzH2qkQ4 It wouldn't start at first. The most I got out of it was like a half second idle. I hadn't tuned it yet though and I had no experience with GM VATS, only Chrysler SKIM, so I wasn't sure if I wasn't getting fuel or if the security system was triggering because the lack of BCM and ignition cylinder made it lonely. So I got my MPVI2 registered and updated and tuned out the VATS as well as a few other minor things (downstream O2 sensors, manual instead of auto, changed diff ratio to the right thing, removed the PRNDL settings, etc) and tried again... https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=MWNoekiAS34 Much better! Currently cleaning up large numbers of extra long wires (I have to shorten nearly 100 wires by about 18 inches in one spot going from the engine to the ECU, it's going to take a while...) And charging the battery. I also mounted the radiator overflow (which is off a 92 civic - it's a neat little one that hugs the radiator fan nicely and the bracket was easily modified and welded to a piece to mount to the radiator mounting bolts) so the cooling system is 100% complete until I decide to try and get the fancy fan and other radiator in. At this point it's literally just wiring before I can airport-drive it. The rear axle needs to be swapped and the rear driveshaft done correctly before it will see speeds over about 35, but it'll be fun to run it up and down the runway for the first time. E: at last count, this vehicle currently has parts from at least 19 make-model-year range combinations on it, and that grows weekly
kastein fucked around with this message at 14:39 on Jul 25, 2020 |
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Jul 25, 2020 14:29
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That's coming along great. I didn't realize it was so easy to tune out VATS.
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Jul 25, 2020 14:39
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Seat Safety Switch posted:That's coming along great. I didn't realize it was so easy to tune out VATS. I was surprised too. It's literally one drop-down menu item. System>Security>VATS Control: none (other options are serial or PWM, older donors will be set to PWM, more modern will be serial)
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Jul 25, 2020 14:42
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VATS can be a right pain in the dick when it acts up (something EVERY GM owner experiences once their ignition switch starts making GBS threads the bed - experienced it on both of my Saturns, one of them was on its 3rd OEM switch when it got totaled... and got locked out for 10 minutes every time - great when you're on a tight schedule delivering for Bezos!). Better yet, it acts differently on every car. On my Saturns, it wouldn't even power the starter OR injectors - so even if you tried to push start it, it wouldn't do anything. On the LS family, it starts and dies immediately. On some others, it'll crank, but won't start. If you had all the factory wiring and ignition switch, it'd just be a matter of cutting a wire, doing a 30 minute re-learn, and then you'd just have to deal with the VATS light being lit up constantly (also a 30 minute re-learn anytime the battery is disconnected). Or swear a new ignition switch at it. Or turn it off with HP Tuners if it supports your PCM.
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Jul 25, 2020 14:56
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... that's why I used hptuners, I do have the BCM and ignition cylinder plus key from the donor but no way is the cylinder fitting my column so it had to go. There was no point in trying to get around it the wrong way, and I've been meaning to get hptuners and some experience with it for years anyways.
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Jul 25, 2020 15:09
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VATS on a lot of GMs is just a resistor within the ignition switch, or the tip of the key might press a second switch within the ignition switch (which also has a resistor on it). They didn't really get into the passive RFID chip stuff until very recently, so having the original key and cylinder is just going to let you start it on the first try without a re-learn. The really early versions had a resistor pellet embedded in the ignition key. It's stupid easy to get around if you have half an hour. And once you've done a re-learn, that resistor value is stored in the PCM until the switch gets swapped out again. BCM isn't involved with VATS past the 90s, AFAIK, but it handles alarm functions. And you can shut down a GM alarm by just sticking the key in and turning it on, even if VATS is unhappy.
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Jul 25, 2020 20:03
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Jul 25, 2020 20:59
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Yeah, I've been looking forward to this for like 5 years now. I can't wait to drive it. STR - Dude. I looked into how this one worked before I even bothered, I didn't just waste 390 dollars for nothing. This one uses a combo of an RFID and a few sensors in the cylinder to make sure you can't jimmy or break it to turn it. I already figured that out in spring 2017. kastein fucked around with this message at 21:03 on Jul 25, 2020 |
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Jul 25, 2020 21:01
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.... should have expected that.  Sorry man.None of the GMs I've owned used RFID. GM gonna be GM and follow 20 different standards, all in the same model year, all with different failure modes.
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Jul 25, 2020 21:20
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I am having a weird bogging issue when hitting the throttle, even sitting in neutral, and I'm pretty sure it is related to swapping the van MAF for a truck/SUV MAF. So I committed some software piracy at the junkyard and now on my way to go swap the MAF table values out in my tune 
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Jul 28, 2020 22:20
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Lol. Did you try unplugging the MAF and testing how the ECU handled alpha-n?
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Jul 28, 2020 22:26
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I didn't. It's still bogging and acting weird even after swapping the values out (which were like 50% low, so yeah, that was part of it for sure) and plugging in the passenger upstream O2 that I forgot to plug in, but I'm tired of breathing the fumes in here so I'm gonna leave it the gently caress alone until I can idle it outside the hangar and stick my OBD2 dongle on it. Actually now that I think of it, I think hpt includes a scanner tool... E: it does and the only codes currently set are MIL circuit fault (because I haven't hooked one up) and evap circuit fault (because I haven't hooked one up.) I guess it'll wait till I can get it outside and log data for a bit. kastein fucked around with this message at 23:40 on Jul 28, 2020 |
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Jul 28, 2020 23:28
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Re: junkyard piracy (call it the junkyarrrrrrd ok I’ll see myself out) For future reference the HPTuners site has a ton of base tunes you can use: https://www.hptuners.com/my-account/tunerepository/
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Jul 29, 2020 03:14
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The things I would know if I asked or googled it instead of driving to the junkyard. Whoops...
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Jul 29, 2020 03:29
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Well it drove under its own power! Only 3 feet, but it did it.
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Jul 29, 2020 08:13
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w00t!
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Jul 29, 2020 22:27
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Hell yeah. On another note I've realized I've reached a point where I can recognize STR's posts without looking at the username/avatar.
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Aug 5, 2020 13:29
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Trying to work through a stupid EFI issue. Pretty sure I know what it is, but still cross about it. My fuel trims are kind of poo poo on both banks but bank 1 (cyls 1357, driver side) is going 14-25% rich and the other side is staying in the single digits. Pulling the #8 injector plug barely changes anything. Pulling the #1 injector plug changes nothing. The others all make a noticeable difference. Swapped coil rails side to side including harness squids, no change. Swapped coils back, no change. Swapped coils 1 and 3, no change. Checked injector drivers on good and bad cylinders with a turn signal bulb, no difference. Did all new plugs, no change. To my mind, this means the #1 injector is lovely for some reason OR my engine has poo poo wrong with it. Hoping the former obviously. Cylinder 8 injector is probably partially lovely but I'm hoping it will clear up by itself. I'm leaving it alone till I fix #1. Oh, I tried both downstream O2 sensors in the driver side as well since first sign of trouble was the ltft going full rich on that bank and the O2 not cycling and it bogging cyclically (like it was a bad O2 sensor) if given throttle. I can believe one bad O2 but three is pushing it so I don't think that's the issue. They all got hot when the heater was enabled with the sensor sitting on the floorboard plugged into the harness running, so it's likely they work. Anyone disagree? Other stuff I'm forgetting? kastein fucked around with this message at 15:39 on Aug 5, 2020 |
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Aug 5, 2020 15:34
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Is the spark plug wet/fouled on the offending cylinders? Checked for spark there?
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Aug 5, 2020 17:47
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Other sensors reading reliably - ECT in particular? HPTuners used to have a built in balance test but it appears they removed it, though you can just disable individual injectors in it manually instead of futzing with plugs. Did you check that the #1 cylinder coil is getting a signal?
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Aug 5, 2020 18:50
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Haven't checked the coil signals but all the injector plugs are pulsing correctly. I got junkyard injectors and #1 seems to be firing fine now. Replaced #8 too because bank 2 went rich as soon as I fixed bank 1, then it mostly was trimmed fine but... Still bogging. So I did the other 6 injectors, because why not, they might be it. Still loving bogging and now it's pissing gas everywhere from 3 of the o rings. I loving give up for today. Nothing is going right. I've officially spent nearly 20 hours straight making my truck objectively worse than it was when I started. 
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Aug 5, 2020 22:45
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Injector seals are replaced, it doesn't piss gas everywhere anymore. Apparently jamming that poo poo in drier than Ben Shapiro results in the O ring tearing, who could have expected that? I used motor oil this time and it went rather smoothly. Still has the issue though. Upstream O2s are rich/lean switching, and unplugging them one at a time results in the correct bank numbers flatlining so they aren't swapped, which usually is what causes this kind of craziness. CTS, IAT, MAP, MAF, TPS all reading sane values. Fuel pressure is fine. It's still doing it. I tried my stock MAF just for shits and giggles and it still does it, with bonus hosed LTFT (pegged minimum) due to the difference in calibration curves. Kinda stumped here. I did manage to help someone accidentally though on the HPT forums while trying to figure this out, it turns out the injector disable buttons in VCM Scanner are numbered by their bitmask position not the cylinder number, and they couldn't figure out why the number mapping made no sense. Turns out it's bits 87654321 if you map the LS firing order onto it correctly and the software guy who wrote the tool had no idea that that wasn't going to make any sense to the greasy people using the tool. Disabling some injectors makes their bank go full rich LTFT (as expected - O2 reading lean due to 25% unburned air coming through, dumps fuel in all the other cylinders on that bank trying to fix it, to no avail), some others only make it go about halfway to the max (12-15%ish). Wondering if I have a cylinder contribution issue due to a poo poo ignition coil or bad compression or something, but it idles too smoothly for me to really think so. Oh, while I was frustrated on this I halfway solved the deathwobble on the blue MJ (tightened the track bar mount and track bar to axle bolts, steering box bolts), made it stop leaking ATF everywhere, and fixed its B pillar interior lights temporarily. It needs a new track bar bushing because the lovely parts store track bar came with a lovely bushing, but it's better now at least. I might toss the spare exhaust on when it gets light out because the one that's on it now is really ragged.
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Aug 14, 2020 09:23
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GUESS WHAT BITCHES IT'S WORKING I haven't driven it yet (need to do some more harness work and get it more buttoned up first...) but I solved the bogging stuttering issue! Someone on the HPTuners forums suggested checking under some more settings sections. It turns out it was related to drivetrain and transmission abuse limiter settings. There is a section under transmission abuse that has a table for desired engine output torque at various RPMs during normal operation, which I set to 100% across the board. And another that sets torque reduction at various RPMs in abuse mode, which I set to 0% across the board. I also disabled transmission abuse limiting entirely just to be sure. It still did it so I asked for help on the Sloppy Mechanics group and HPT forums and the HPT guys came through first. Apparently there is a section under the engine config for drivetrain abuse too. It has an RPM limit that acts like a second, lower rev-limiter that engages only when the trans is in neutral (or the VCM doesn't know what gear the trans is in, because you have no PRNDL switch.) It was set to 1400rpm, which... is exactly the speed the engine was bogging and stuttering above. I set it to the allowed max of 8000 and it revs normally now. A little more wiring cleanup, routing, and shortening and it'll be ready for its first drive. The injectors didn't need replacing (well, 6 of them - the #1 and #8 weren't even clicking so they were shot) but between that and the new O rings it only cost me 20 bucks to slap a junkyard set in, so I'm not too broken up about it.
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Aug 14, 2020 20:07
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Well that's definitely something that required some in depth knowledge. Why would the stock tune have the angryrobots fucked around with this message at 21:13 on Aug 14, 2020 |
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Aug 14, 2020 21:04
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Jeez, that's an obscure root cause. Glad it's working now. Congratulations on pirating the MAF table - the only thing easier to conceal than a pilfered relay on your way out.
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Aug 14, 2020 21:09
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Jesus, now I know why some guys would rather just have a drat carburetor. Trying to figure that out would have drove me insane. Glad you got it working tho man, can't wait to see it driving!
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Aug 14, 2020 22:38
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Thanks guys! Yeah I have been looking forward to driving this pile of garbage for 5 years now. Actually, almost exactly 5 years ago is when I started negotiations on buying it.Seat Safety Switch posted:Jeez, that's an obscure root cause. Glad it's working now. Apparently people who actually know what they're doing are well aware of it and I'm the last guy to find out, actually. Well, not quite, plenty of people on here and on facebook didn't know either I guess. I don't even have to pilfer relays and poo poo... my junkyard guys know me. I think they have charged me once out of the last 5 trips for small incidentals. I got 8 LS injectors, a couple harness pigtails, a vehicle speed sensor and pigtail, and a few other things I'm forgetting now all for 20 bucks. They also do stuff like sell me an entire fullsize van 3in catback exhaust for 21 dollars. It's been pretty great, I'll miss that yard when I move. I think the neutral idle limit on the autos is that low just to keep people from cooking the fluid in the converter for no reason and because, well, it doesn't have to be any higher, honestly. 1400 is plenty for extended idle for AC, alternator, upfitter provisions, etc.
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Aug 14, 2020 22:51
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I knew that setting existed but I've never heard of it being set that low. I'm pretty sure on my mom's 4.2L Trailblazer it was at least somewhere north of 2000RPM.
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Aug 14, 2020 23:06
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GUESS WHAT https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=L6yWNhFtOk4 https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=DJxnyWgP_zs https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=pQJJ1v-91as Still needs a lot of work but it runs and drives!
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Aug 22, 2020 23:10
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| # ? May 23, 2024 13:09 |
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Awww gently caress YES!! Is that in low range?
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Aug 22, 2020 23:25
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