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Ola posted:If we're measuring fossil vs EV safety on brake performance in various edge cases, let's include overheating brakes from long downhills vs regen. And the various hill hold, creep modes etc which in EVs can be dependent on software checking for open doors and fastened safety belts, vs an idling fossil autobox which can be put in drive by a toddler or a dog. In an ICE car on a long downhill you just put it in a lower gear though, not ride the brakes. This has been the case for as long as cars have been around.
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Jul 21, 2020 12:45
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big crush on Chad OMG posted:I can’t imagine the regen decelerating would be in any way faster than depressing the brake pedal if your foot was already on it. You should probably go and drive a Model 3 so you don’t have to imagine anything.
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Jul 21, 2020 12:50
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big crush on Chad OMG posted:In an ICE car on a long downhill you just put it in a lower gear though, not ride the brakes. This has been the case for as long as cars have been around. That depends on the steepness of the hill, the engine, the turns and the speed limit. Diesels struggle with engine braking for instance, or you might be descending into serpentine turns. Every EV I've driven has been better and safer than any ICE car I've driven in long downhills, vastly so in twisty ones. With the exception of a fully charged one of course.
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Jul 21, 2020 12:51
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Cardiac posted:A friend that works with development at Volvo said that the Android platform saves Volvo from having their own software suite that needs to be kept updated for the long lifespan of a car and instead they can make their own additions on top of the android os. Does it get more than 3 years of security updates?
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Jul 21, 2020 13:18
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Ola posted:That depends on the steepness of the hill, the engine, the turns and the speed limit. Diesels struggle with engine braking for instance, or you might be descending into serpentine turns. Every EV I've driven has been better and safer than any ICE car I've driven in long downhills, vastly so in twisty ones. With the exception of a fully charged one of course.
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Jul 21, 2020 13:48
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Here4DaGangBang posted:You should probably go and drive a Model 3 so you don’t have to imagine anything. Is this the latest “you can tell who has been to the track and who hasn’t” throwaway comment? I’ve driven one. I would much rather have my foot on the brake.
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Jul 21, 2020 13:56
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Here4DaGangBang posted:You should probably go and drive a Model 3 so you don’t have to imagine anything. Agreed. Ya’ll are trying to make a mountain out of thin air. Unless you’re two-foot driving your auto-trans ICE, the Tesla is actually better at the situation being argued. The one criticism I would level at Tesla’s regen blending modes is that setting regen to low currently turns regen down, and you can’t get the rest of the available regen via the brake pedal. It essentially turns off a large portion of the regen range, requiring you to turn that energy into heat via the service brakes, rather than electricity (and some heat) via the drive pack. Ideally setting it to low would shift the regen blend to the brake pedal, so that it behaves more like an ICE car. I get their reasoning (this isn’t an ICE, why simulate the specific driving dynamics of what we’re trying to make obsolete,) and even admire it a bit, but the existence of creep mode makes it a little hypocritical.
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Jul 21, 2020 13:59
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Ola posted:Diesels struggle with engine braking for instance, or you might be descending into serpentine turns. Every EV I've driven has been better and safer than any ICE car I've driven in long downhills, vastly so in twisty ones. With the exception of a fully charged one of course. Jake brakes!  now I'm imagining putting in Jake brake sound effects to a EV truck in high regen mode going downhill...
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Jul 21, 2020 14:02
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big crush on Chad OMG posted:Is this the latest “you can tell who has been to the track and who hasn’t” throwaway comment? The deceleration at the highest regen setting is quite drastic so that's probably why he is having trouble believing your post. I like to give people the benefit of the doubt so perhaps you drove one before the late 2018 regen update, apparently the behavior changed quite a bit. Regardless the brake remains there if you want to keep your foot over that instead. I practice defensive driving and I've had to use the brake maybe a handful of times since getting my car. The actual use of the brake remains the same - see situation occurring, shift foot from accelerator to brake. I can't say having an EV is any better or worse in this respect but the one pedal driving is definitely more convenient.
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Jul 21, 2020 14:13
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I went back to an article about the development of Track Mode V2 because I trust Randy Pobst's opinion on driving dynamics and he helped fix the Model 3. What's interesting is that Track mode originally increased regen across the board because they felt the transition to slowing was faster with strong regen. They've kept some of this for high speeds but for lower speeds Randy had them dial back regen to closer match a conventional car so that he could trail brake into corners easier. I think it's that ability to more finely feather braking control that I prefer which is why I use low regen. quote:I brought along a little model of a Tesla and handed it to an engineer, asking him to act out what exactly is going on as Track mode traverses a typical corner. Immediately, there's something to explain. Track mode noticeably amplifies lift-accelerator regen, which eases the thermal load on the brakes. But it also shrinks the transition from acceleration to braking into a blink: just lift your right foot. Couldn't be quicker. . . . https://www.motortrend.com/cars/tesla/model-3/2019/tesla-model-3-performance-track-mode-release-version-review/ Let me be clear that I don't think there is a wrong way to drive an EV and I have no issue with high regen being used by the vast majority of people. But I prefer low regen and think there is a clear purpose for it not just being a luddite. Yuns fucked around with this message at 14:29 on Jul 21, 2020 |
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Jul 21, 2020 14:18
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I love that we're having this argument in 2020 because Tesla when my 2007 Prius does the exact same thing completely seamlessly and transparently the driver. I wish it had less "flywheel effect" and slowed more rapidly on lifting, but the regen capacity is obviously a lot less with a little NiMH battery and motor generator.
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Jul 21, 2020 14:53
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Finger Prince posted:I love that we're having this argument in 2020 because Tesla when my 2007 Prius does the exact same thing completely seamlessly and transparently the driver. I wish it had less "flywheel effect" and slowed more rapidly on lifting, but the regen capacity is obviously a lot less with a little NiMH battery and motor generator.
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Jul 21, 2020 15:17
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harperdc posted:Jake brakes! buh buh buh buh buh buh buhb uh buh
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Jul 21, 2020 15:18
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big crush on Chad OMG posted:Is this the latest “you can tell who has been to the track and who hasn’t” throwaway comment? No, it just seems that someone who hasn’t driven one has no concept of how powerful the regen braking can be, and probably shouldn’t write off one pedal driving in the Model 3? It doesn’t drive like an ICE with an auto trans. It might even work better because the regen braking beginning as soon as your foot starts coming off the accelerator would get most of the weight transfer out of the way before you even touch the friction brakes.
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Jul 21, 2020 16:02
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Ola posted:And the various hill hold, creep modes etc which in EVs can be dependent on software checking for open doors and fastened safety belts, vs an idling fossil autobox which can be put in drive by a toddler or a dog. As far as kids putting cars in drive, let's not forget that a toddler put a model X in drive and pressed their pregnant mother against a wall, causing a (cw body horror) gently caress ton of broken bones and sent her into immediate premature labor at the hospital.
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Jul 21, 2020 16:30
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Ola posted:If we're measuring fossil vs EV safety on brake performance in various edge cases, let's include overheating brakes from long downhills vs regen. And the various hill hold, creep modes etc which in EVs can be dependent on software checking for open doors and fastened safety belts, vs an idling fossil autobox which can be put in drive by a toddler or a dog. Why do you think ICE vehicles can't have the same checks?
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Jul 21, 2020 16:36
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One of the reasons I dislike one pedal driving is I want to drive defensively and cover the brake in situations where it's appropriate, but still maintain my cruising speed. If you have one pedal mode active, any time you cover the brake you are forced to drastically slow down, and only at a rate that is not strong enough for any sort of emergency stopping. Sure you can also use cruise control but I just prefer the slight slowdown you get off a weak regen coast going into those situations.
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Jul 21, 2020 16:37
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KYOON GRIFFEY JR posted:Why do you think ICE vehicles can't have the same checks? If they're mechanically shifted they can't. But electronically shifted can, but on the other hand an EV can have any degree of regen including not at all if set up so.
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Jul 21, 2020 16:50
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Well this thread wont last long. I rented a model 3 to test it a year or so ago and I used the brake once (emergency braking, probably wasn't needed but rental so I didn't want to take any risks). I liked the one pedal driving, although I'm not sure if it was in that mode or somesuch, but I had turned on regen brake to the max. It slowed down significantly faster than my manual ICE cars (diesel and gasoline VW Golfs). I'll add that I'm very light on the brakes in my ICE cars and usually slow down most of the way with downshifting/engine braking/coasting and planning for anticipated stops/slowdowns. So it was a pretty easy switch for me to do and felt pleasant. I was also abusing autopilot/lane keep + auto cruise so I wasn't in any situations where I wanted to have my foot over the brake and the car was slowing down too much. The only other experience I had with this sort of drivetrain setup was with electrical forklifts/pallet jacks, so it might have helped the transition, but it felt natural and a much better evolution to driving than the traditional gas/brake setup of ice cars. One thing I can see though is getting complacent with all the automatic driving stuff and loosing a bit of reaction time to shifting your foot on the brake for emergency situations. But thats probably going to be trained into our minds as we shift to cars with those automated systems and actually use them. I did experience the auto emergency brake in the tesla, I tried autopilot on a country road with only side markers (no dividing line) and oh boy did the car not understand anything, treating the road as a single lane one way strip. Whenever it picked up an incoming car, it would slam your face into the dash. Needless to say I switched to manual driving for that portion of road pretty quickly.
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Jul 21, 2020 16:57
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So uh, Ford should really sell this to the public. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Y3846KFDmFQ
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Jul 21, 2020 16:57
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Westy543 posted:As far as kids putting cars in drive, let's not forget that a toddler put a model X in drive and pressed their pregnant mother against a wall, causing a (cw body horror) gently caress ton of broken bones and sent her into immediate premature labor at the hospital. Source on this? I'm really curious how the toddler reached the brake pedal?
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Jul 21, 2020 17:15
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McTinkerson posted:So uh, Ford should really sell this to the public.  . But I'm sure Ford Performance will eventually have a Mach E above the GT using some of that performance programming.EDIT: It has a hydraulic handbrake system that disconnects power to the rear wheels to set up drifting. Let's see 1400 hp with a 56.8 kWh battery means that at full 1400 hp power draw you should have 3 minutes and 16 seconds. Yuns fucked around with this message at 17:31 on Jul 21, 2020 |
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Jul 21, 2020 17:20
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Using the term "fossil" for ICE cars should be probate-able. So unnecessary. An EV running on goal electricity / natural gas is also a fossil car.
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Jul 21, 2020 17:24
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 big oil lobbyist account found
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Jul 21, 2020 17:27
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McTinkerson posted:So uh, Ford should really sell this to the public. "Unbridled" is a good name for a Mustang ludicrous mode.
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Jul 21, 2020 17:40
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Zero One posted:"Unbridled" is a good name for a Mustang ludicrous mode. Will there be a "saw a plastic bag in a bush" mode for leaving cars&coffee?
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Jul 21, 2020 18:17
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KillerKatten posted:Source on this? I'm really curious how the toddler reached the brake pedal? You can take your pick on a source, he's the first one that came up for me: https://www.businessinsider.com/tesla-model-x-allegedly-hits-pregnant-woman-unintended-acceleration-2019-5 Basically she left her phone in the car, which kept it on, and the babby climbed into the driver's seat.
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Jul 21, 2020 18:33
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Remember that a toddler is not using the car the way an adult would by sitting on the seat. They are almost certainly standing on floorboards/pedals with their hands on the steering wheel to hold themselves up. Even the plaintiffs concede that the kid was on the pedals in front of the driver's seat. This unexpected use is also why a toddler can have an accident with a pistol even though their hands aren't big enough to hold it in the proper manner or strong enough to pull the trigger in a normal way. They hold it in an unexpected way by levering their weight through their hands against the trigger with the muzzle pointed up at them. Yuns fucked around with this message at 18:47 on Jul 21, 2020 |
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Jul 21, 2020 18:44
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I wouldn't be arguing that Teslas are less prone to inadvertently moving into people / objects after the number of them that have crashed into store fronts in parking lots. The drivers blame unintended acceleration, others blame the driver accidentally stomping the throttle instead of the brakes, but even if it's the latter then maybe Joe Public isn't ready for awesome acceleration yet. But no matter the car, people will find a way to do really dumb things with them, it's not an EV/ICE distinction. Also braking power on any modern car is more than enough to engage ABS, your tires are going to be the biggest factor in stopping distances. If you're talking repeated hard braking like the track that's a different story with brake fade etc, but for day to day driving needs I can't imagine there are any modern vehicles that need an upgrade in braking power.
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Jul 21, 2020 18:50
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A toddler is basically an exploit tool. Its snotty hands finds the flaws of your user interface before you can say "why is my ipad in greek".
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Jul 21, 2020 18:51
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And that's why you need to get your toddler their own gun, so they learn proper gun safety.
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Jul 21, 2020 18:56
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I put pin-to-drive on my Model 3 on so my kids can't put it in drive while I'm cleaning the car, and they want to play around and watch Frozen II on the screen.
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Jul 21, 2020 18:59
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I taught my 12 year olds to drive already so if I get run over by one of them, you'll know it was 100% deliberate.
Yuns fucked around with this message at 19:14 on Jul 21, 2020 |
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Jul 21, 2020 19:03
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Ola posted:If they're mechanically shifted they can't. But electronically shifted can, but on the other hand an EV can have any degree of regen including not at all if set up so. Are you time traveling from the 1980s? because all ICE automatic transmissions are electronically shifted. The little lever or buttons is a decoration and user interface, not a direct control interface.
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Jul 21, 2020 19:06
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McTinkerson posted:So uh, Ford should really sell this to the public. That's a cool sound
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Jul 21, 2020 19:12
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KYOON GRIFFEY JR posted:Are you time traveling from the 1980s? because all ICE automatic transmissions are electronically shifted. The little lever or buttons is a decoration and user interface, not a direct control interface. Plenty of 90s and 00s are mechanically shifted. And since we're playing this dumb game of cherry picking corner cases to invent perceived dangers, I can pick those. I won't anymore though.
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Jul 21, 2020 19:14
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brand engager posted:That's a cool sound While you can't buy that Mach E 1400, you can get a similar sound on two wheels: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=N2N64uaxB00
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Jul 21, 2020 19:21
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Even though I would never be able to drive a mach e like that for a whole host of reasons that commercial made me want one bad.
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Jul 21, 2020 19:23
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Ola posted:A toddler is basically an exploit tool. Its snotty hands finds the flaws of your user interface before you can say "why is my ipad in greek". iphone locked for the next 1,234,567,213 minutes please wait.
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Jul 21, 2020 19:24
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Ola posted:Plenty of 90s and 00s are mechanically shifted. Such as? Electronic controlled automatics were taking over in the early 90s. Ford and GM were both done converting before OBD2 became standard.
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Jul 21, 2020 20:01
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