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Oh Snapple! posted:Departure was perfect at all times.  idk how you can say it doesn’t fit Chimera Ant either, since the lyrics, you know, make sense and all.
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Jul 22, 2020 00:21
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| # ? May 29, 2024 16:26 |
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Departure is top 5 op songs, and it having to adapt to the anime getting weirder and weirder is half the charm.
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Jul 22, 2020 00:41
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1999 is much better at atmosphere, especially early on. It's unfortunate that it also makes a lot of subtle changes to characterization that you have to "unlearn." The Hunter's Association is less openly amoral, although, strangely, Beans outright lies about the Hunter Exam being over. 1999 Kurapica prays and vomits after killing Uvogin, although in the manga there's no sense that he feels bad about killing Phantom Troupe members (he realizes that he's become too obsessed with killing them and pulls back from his revenge quest a little to prioritize his friends, but that's not the same thing). Killua's characterization in 1999 is sort of all over the place; we get the scene with Anita were he gives a self-righteous speech about how people who are assassinated get assassinated for a reason, and the scene from the manga were Killua outright murders two guys who bump into him and yell at him is omitted. But in another scene Killua seems to think of his family as bad guys, saying that when he becomes a Hunter he'll arrest them all. He says the same thing in the manga, but in the manga it's clearly idle bragging; 1999 Killua seemed more serious about it, IIRC. Then we get the rather preachy scene with Mito scolding Killua for proposing putting down a dog, which leads to a scene of Nen being used in a way that isn't really compatible with the manga (healing others as a standard thing anyone in the upper half of the Nen hexagon with basic Nen training can do if they think to try, as opposed to a fairly rare ability). And Gon's mother is Mito's sister in 1999, instead of being a complete unknown. The 1999 anime's approach to characterization works well in the case of Lelute, though. In the manga she's just a poacher or a smuggler or something like that, and just happens to have a good grasp of psychology. In 1999 she was a psychologist who drove her patients to suicide instead of making them better; thus she's a scary antagonist in her own right, and Leorio getting outwitted by her is a bit less undignified. Edit: In general, the characterization changes tend to relate to the characters' morality; the 1999 anime writers seemed more concerned, at least on the surface level, with moral issues than Togashi, and this led them to "soften" characters like Netero and Killua a little. But in the case of Kurapica, there was maybe something more than that going on. I remember reading that the 1999 anime director said he always thought of Kurapica as female, and I suspect that he felt the urge to give Kurapica more "appropriately feminine" emotional vulnerability. Silver2195 fucked around with this message at 03:47 on Jul 22, 2020 |
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Jul 22, 2020 03:37
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1999 is a good story, but it's not the same story Togashi wanted to tell, which kind of rubs me the wrong way. Like, there's a concerted effort to show that Gon and friends are the "good guys" in a way that Togashi isn't at all interesting in doing and in fact actively rejects at certain points. Honestly, it's the same sort of mindset that led to the creation of "evil nen" in the 2011 movies, and it makes me feel like the writers are missing the point a little (or simply don't like Togashi's amorality).
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Jul 22, 2020 04:07
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Silver2195 posted:But in the case of Kurapica, there was maybe something more than that going on. I remember reading that the 1999 anime director said he always thought of Kurapica as female, and I suspect that he felt the urge to give Kurapica more "appropriately feminine" emotional vulnerability. This is one of the things that sits worst with me about the 1999 anime, even beyond me preferring the 2011 one being a lot more faithful to the manga in general, early weirdness aside.
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Jul 22, 2020 04:30
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HxH also started in 1998 so part of it is also that people didn't really appreciate what kind of story was being told back when they made the first anime
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Jul 22, 2020 05:29
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Silver2195 posted:The 1999 anime's approach to characterization works well in the case of Lelute, though. In the manga she's just a poacher or a smuggler or something like that, and just happens to have a good grasp of psychology. In 1999 she was a psychologist who drove her patients to suicide instead of making them better; thus she's a scary antagonist in her own right, and Leorio getting outwitted by her is a bit less undignified. I think in manga Lelute was a gambler, so her being good at psychology as far as bets and rock-paper-scissors are concerned made perfect sense.
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Jul 22, 2020 11:31
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I've been slowly working my way through 99 as a way to actually compare the two, since a friend with a frustrating aversion to all anime made after the turn of the century watched it rather than 2011 and I wanted to talk about it with him and had only seen the first couple of episodes. It has its moments, certain scenes early on I think are indeed improved with a slower pace, though they take it way too far in a few cases and make it kind of a slog. I wasn't a fan of a lot of the changes they make but like you guys have said it's pretty easy to attribute a lot of that to "it was being made in the manga's early days so they didn't have a feel for what Togashi was going for quite yet." I actually liked the first half of the episode where Gon and Killua go to Mito's house which operates on a much more relaxed pace and I think it benefits for it, but the second half is a stupid filler storyline about some dumbass poacher which, yeah, ended with "nen healing" which is super not a thing. I wasn't into the girl trying to kill Killua on the blimp at all but I did like that 3 episode filler arc on the warship hotel even if it felt super out of place to have all these people working together only to immediately start hunting each other in the 4th phase. Haven't gotten to 99's Yorknew yet so I can't compare it but I've definitely noticed a lot of 99 diehards like to point to specific scenes and shots from the Hunter Exam and Yorknew as being "way better" because they're darker and "more moody." Personally, in most cases I prefer 2011's brighter color palette and more upbeat tone because it contrasts really well with people just getting randomly killed and everybody moving on immediately, because that's how this world works. I think in the case of the Hunter Exam it's really kind of a toss-up, I can see both sides of the argument, though it being 10 episodes shorter in 2011 definitely wins it points for me lol. 99 can definitely be too slow at times. The soundtrack in 99 is honestly bizarre. They reuse the same couple of songs for so many scenes (though 2011's also guilty of this early on) but a lot of the music sounds like it wouldn't be out of place in a PS1 JRPG and that's really weirdly nostalgic to me even though I never watched past like episode 2 originally. Definitely prefer 2011's OST by the end but I think Chimera Ant skews the curve a ton, in more than one regard. Also 99 cuts out Hisoka vs Kastro. What the gently caress!? Awful. Hate it. So stupid.
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Jul 22, 2020 15:24
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Yeah how do you cut Hisoka vs Kastro? That was such a "what the hell??" - > "oh. OHHH" sequence that opens up so much. It's such a teachable moment. You see the importance of foresight (ie I doubt Hisoka would've played games with his arms unless he knew Machi could fix them), the consequences of straying too far from your affinity, cunning over brawn, and Hisoka just being really drat good at making poo poo up on the fly.
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Jul 22, 2020 15:36
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You guys convinced me. I'm going to watch 2011.
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Jul 22, 2020 16:49
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The only part of both animes that left me with strong memories is the ant arc in the newer adoption. Everything else felt like an unambitious adoption that relied almost entirely on the source material. With how you guys are describing the old anime, I feel like I should rewatch it.
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Jul 22, 2020 17:45
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i refused to watch the 2011 version until 2017? and I can't watch the 99' version at all anymore, anything 99 did better ends by the time yorknew kicks off
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Jul 22, 2020 18:09
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even as a Hunter x Hunter fan, I have a hard time with that first exam arc in the 2011 anime, never seen the '99 one. it's one of those shows I recommend to people with the caveat of "yeah it doesn't get good until several episodes in"
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Jul 22, 2020 18:17
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The Hunter Exam is bizarrely paced in the 2011 anime. They speed through a lot of it, including doing Hanzo dirty by cutting the sushi test. But then they also use an half of an episode on them all waiting in a room for some reason? The entirety of that Trick Tower sequence was tortuously slow really.
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Jul 22, 2020 18:37
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grieving for Gandalf posted:even as a Hunter x Hunter fan, I have a hard time with that first exam arc in the 2011 anime, never seen the '99 one. it's one of those shows I recommend to people with the caveat of "yeah it doesn't get good until several episodes in" I HATED the exam arc the first time through, it was legitimately a wtf is going on with this show moment, the only thing that kept me going is knowing the guy who made YuYu Hakusho made this also. Then after episode 26 (or was it 27) when Wing explained Nen (is that a spoiler?) everything fell into place and a lot of the weird poo poo from the exam arc made sense. On subsequent watches knowing about nen it's a lot more enjoyable.
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Jul 22, 2020 20:07
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99 has its moments but I wouldn't recommend it for a first watch. The 2011 anime has some faults but is a drat good adaptation overall that I wouldn't hesitate to recommend.
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Jul 22, 2020 20:30
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dazoner posted:I HATED the exam arc the first time through, it was legitimately a wtf is going on with this show moment, the only thing that kept me going is knowing the guy who made YuYu Hakusho made this also. Then after episode 26 (or was it 27) when Wing explained Nen (is that a spoiler?) everything fell into place and a lot of the weird poo poo from the exam arc made sense. On subsequent watches knowing about nen it's a lot more enjoyable. It was the reverse elimination tournament that finally got it to click for me, both in how unexpectedly lenient it is and in how it ends. Before that there were only little hints of the story screwing with your expectations but that's the first time it really got me.
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Jul 22, 2020 20:53
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oh jay posted:The Hunter Exam is bizarrely paced in the 2011 anime. They speed through a lot of it, including doing Hanzo dirty by cutting the sushi test. But then they also use an half of an episode on them all waiting in a room for some reason? The entirety of that Trick Tower sequence was tortuously slow really. Weell, there is a trick behind this sequence. The characters were sitting in there for a ridiculous amount of time, bored, anxious to move on and all that. By prolonging this scene the viewers end up feeling the same. And yes, cutting sushi test out was unforgivable
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Jul 22, 2020 21:34
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HxH 2011 is kind of like FMA: Brotherhood, in that the beginning seems to assume you watched the previous one and thus feels free to speed over a lot of the "setup" that was already covered. That, or there was a dramatic shift in the priorities/philosophy guiding its production at some point during/after the exam arc. (Besides them shifting to a later timeslot or whatever eventually and thus feeling free to go heavier on the violence and gore compared to how the beginning had weirdness like Hisoka turning a man's arms into butterflies or whatever.)
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Jul 23, 2020 00:03
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TriffTshngo posted:Also 99 cuts out Hisoka vs Kastro. What the gently caress!? Awful. Hate it. So stupid. it adds a filler fight with darth maul, so, it;s impossible to say if its bad or not,
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Jul 23, 2020 00:44
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I'm being genuinely confused by the idea that 99 did fights better. Maybe it's thinking about specific fights I can't recall, but 99 fights were mostly stills or combat with little 'impact' in movements, hits or character emotions, while 2011 ones were really impressive. Maybe it's because I like short fights? But yeah, a good example would be gon vs hisoka fight in each ones. The difference are kind of enormous.
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Jul 23, 2020 21:23
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Arkeus posted:I'm being genuinely confused by the idea that 99 did fights better. Maybe it's thinking about specific fights I can't recall, but 99 fights were mostly stills or combat with little 'impact' in movements, hits or character emotions, while 2011 ones were really impressive. Maybe it's because I like short fights? But yeah, a good example would be gon vs hisoka fight in each ones. The difference are kind of enormous. Uhhhh Check out that twitter thread dude, there is literally the Hisoka vs Gon fight to show how that's wrong and there are so many countless other examples within the show. I talked about the Chrollo vs Zeno/Silva before, but the 2011 version in the first thirty seconds is almost nothing but speedlines so yeah nah , completely inaccurate. In the Hanzo fight they even take the time to animate the difficulty of him doing a handstand on one finger, to the point you can actually see the strain in his hands. If you're talking about the Greed Island OVA's, then yeah fair game those were complete poo poo.
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Jul 23, 2020 22:35
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Roland Jones posted:HxH 2011 is kind of like FMA: Brotherhood, in that the beginning seems to assume you watched the previous one and thus feels free to speed over a lot of the "setup" that was already covered. That, or there was a dramatic shift in the priorities/philosophy guiding its production at some point during/after the exam arc. (Besides them shifting to a later timeslot or whatever eventually and thus feeling free to go heavier on the violence and gore compared to how the beginning had weirdness like Hisoka turning a man's arms into butterflies or whatever.) Yeah, there's definitely a bit of that problem. Though it's nowhere near as bad as Brotherhood in that regard.
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Jul 24, 2020 01:23
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Asuron posted:Uhhhh That twitter thread is utterly wrong as far as I can tell. My bafflement was actually caused by reading and looking at said fights (99 vs 11 of gon vs hisoka) again, and going "what the hell man". The 99 Gon vs Hisoka had no physical impact and felt hollow and wooden, as well as really long. 11 one was... really really impactful.
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Jul 24, 2020 03:04
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Arkeus posted:That twitter thread is utterly wrong as far as I can tell. My bafflement was actually caused by reading and looking at said fights (99 vs 11 of gon vs hisoka) again, and going "what the hell man". The 99 Gon vs Hisoka had no physical impact and felt hollow and wooden, as well as really long. 11 one was... really really impactful. This is gonna sound rude and I promise it's not, but I don't think you know what speedlines actually are or what wooden animation actually is or looks like. I don't know if you've watched One Punch Man Season 2, but that has a lot of examples of the above and I'd check that out to see exactly what the animation your describing actually looks like. It's almost a poster child for it.
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Jul 24, 2020 05:06
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Wow, I really didn’t know people loved the 99 anime so much, and in fact think it’s better than the 2011 one. I would think the mere fact that ( from my understanding) the 99 anime doesn’t cover chimera ant would basically automatically make it worse, guess not! I’ve always heard the 99 anime is bad, and it was made completely obsolete by the 2011 anime. I don’t know if the 99 anime had a dub, but 2011 does and it’s super great so that’s a point for it as well.
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Jul 24, 2020 20:01
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Heroic Yoshimitsu posted:Wow, I really didn’t know people loved the 99 anime so much, and in fact think it’s better than the 2011 one. I would think the mere fact that ( from my understanding) the 99 anime doesn’t cover chimera ant would basically automatically make it worse, guess not! I’ve always heard the 99 anime is bad, and it was made completely obsolete by the 2011 anime. The 99 dub is..................... unique
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Jul 24, 2020 20:37
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Heroic Yoshimitsu posted:I’ve always heard the 99 anime is bad, and it was made completely obsolete by the 2011 anime. I wouldn't call it completely obsolete because of the Brotherhood problem discussed above (the 2011 anime rushing though everything up until around Trick Tower). But if you watch just one, it should definitely be 2011.
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Jul 24, 2020 21:19
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Heroic Yoshimitsu posted:Wow, I really didn’t know people loved the 99 anime so much, and in fact think it’s better than the 2011 one. I would think the mere fact that ( from my understanding) the 99 anime doesn’t cover chimera ant would basically automatically make it worse, guess not! I’ve always heard the 99 anime is bad, and it was made completely obsolete by the 2011 anime. You also need to factor in the phenomenon that is similar to rose-tinted shades: liking the first version of something you have seen because it is the version you're familiar with. Your expectations have been set, and your mind might frame the first version you watch as "the right way", and any other versions as interpretations, wrong, or just not as impactful (and therefore lesser).
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Jul 24, 2020 21:28
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I mean the part where it gets 3/4 of the main cast characterization totally wrong is a big mark against the 99 version
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Jul 25, 2020 00:25
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Eej posted:I mean the part where it gets 3/4 of the main cast characterization totally wrong is a big mark against the 99 version Death of the author. As long as its good poo poo, who cares? Also, the movies, which are "canon" to the new series, gets the characterizations so godawfully wrong it's not even funny.
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Jul 25, 2020 00:47
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oh jay posted:Death of the author. As long as its good poo poo, who cares? I would argue most of the changes to characters' personalities in 99 are for the worse. Not all of them but in general.
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Jul 25, 2020 01:04
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I honestly don't remember it enough to dispute that. Other than Kurapika actually being a girl. That sticks out.
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Jul 25, 2020 01:06
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99 Killua is real bad.
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Jul 25, 2020 01:06
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I loved the 99 version a whole lot, but at this point, if you haven't watched either, you'd be crazy not to watch 2011. There's really no point in muddying the waters for yourself. I certainly wouldn't watch both, not just for redundancy, but as Prowler said, you'll just mess up how you feel what is 'right' when you watch the second one. A big part of that reasoning is that the 2011 version is not just pretty slavish to the source material (in a good way), but is a keen observer of the 99 version. A great deal of the good ideas are lifted from 99 straight into 2011. Everything from voice acting to scene composition and so on. The 2011 version benefited a lot from the existence of its predecessor, but there's no reason to watch 99 other than raw curiosity or if you're a superfan or something.
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Jul 25, 2020 02:14
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I think the only reason to watch 99 at this point is if you want to see the sushi making exam and you don't wanna read the manga.
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Jul 25, 2020 02:52
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Obviously the best way to experience the series is by reading the two decade old scans that were translated from a French (?) translation from Japanese.
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Jul 25, 2020 03:25
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HxH was relayed to me by Monk Tsu over a period of six weeks on a Tibetan plateau. I still prefer the 2011 series.
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Jul 25, 2020 03:28
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netflix had the 99 series a couple of years ago and i only saw like 1/2 of one episode and that was about it. i held off on watching it for some reason and eventually it got removed, so i can't say much about it. but one thing i WILL say is that i really miss that soft look of 80s/90s anime that had really nice contours and shading. modern day anime feels so much flatter and less detailed by comparison. probably has something to do with going from traditional cel animation to digital or something.
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Jul 27, 2020 10:24
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Mr Interweb posted:netflix had the 99 series a couple of years ago and i only saw like 1/2 of one episode and that was about it. i held off on watching it for some reason and eventually it got removed, so i can't say much about it. but one thing i WILL say is that i really miss that soft look of 80s/90s anime that had really nice contours and shading. modern day anime feels so much flatter and less detailed by comparison. probably has something to do with going from traditional cel animation to digital or something. Yeah, I have a similar nostalgic feeling for 90s anime too. I found it was really noticeable comparing, say, the first few seasons of Pokemon up to mid-Johto, to Pokemon Advanced and Diamond and Pearl.
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Jul 27, 2020 10:39
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