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For gimmicks that are worlds apart, Fatu was portrayed as a savage Samoan who couldn’t even figure out how to wear boots to being a street-savvy community activist. He then became a sultan and then a sumo guy who danced to hip hop.
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Jul 22, 2020 13:44
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Meanwhile Jamal did the opposite, going from a street thug for hire to some kind of Samoan headhunter
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Jul 22, 2020 14:14
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Are there any remotely good books on the AWA? I've brought up a bunch of my dad's memories and I think he'd enjoy reading it.
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Jul 22, 2020 17:02
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There are too many successful racist or homophobic heel gimmicks to list, but the ones that exploited global tragedies are on another level. Was Sgt. Slaughter, Iraqi Sympathizer or Muhammad Hassan over with fans? I know Slaughter got death threats and Hassan/Daivari were hated, but I don't know if the angles were big draws. I wasn't watching the Hassan stuff and it sounds like something that would have go away heat with a lot of people even in 2004.
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Jul 22, 2020 18:16
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The whole Irag war angle tanked business to the point they had to move 'Mania to a much smaller arena and spread a phony bomb threat story to cover it.
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Jul 22, 2020 18:24
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My fan group in college I think ironically liked Muhammad Hassan but then one time he took over the ring with masked "terrorists" and we were all "oh...poo poo".
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Jul 22, 2020 18:30
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Halloween Jack posted:There are too many successful racist or homophobic heel gimmicks to list, but the ones that exploited global tragedies are on another level. If I remember correctly, Hassan had "I dont know what the hell this is" heat. WWE pushed him hard with an Undefeated streak, a group elimination when he entered the Royal Rumble and had him with Hogan at WM21. I dont think he really got go away heat until the London Bombing thing Q: What was the reasoning that Battle of Los Angeles 2011 was only 1 night? It's the only BOLA that is one night and Never remember hearing a reason why.
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Jul 22, 2020 18:33
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JBL's world title run killed my interest in wrestling for a long time, but I feel like Hassan might've had go-away heat with me had I still been watching regularly... well, that's not entirely fair, I feel like WWE would've had go-away heat with me for having the nerve to do such a blatantly jingoistic and offensive angle. La Resistance and The Un-Americans were bad enough, but I could still just about get away with liking them "ironically", because at least there weren't obvious war crimes being carried out against France, Canada and the UK. I've seen people defend the Hassan angle by saying that at least he just started off as someone from the Middle East who hated the way Americans/westerners stereotyped him... but this was not something emphasised by the commentators (at the Royal Rumble,  "Aw now here's someone I wish WASN'T on Raw!!") and then he just flat out became a terrorist at the same time as the London bombings. Awful, just awful.I hope it didn't draw. Everything I've read about Turncoat Sgt Slaughter suggests that it wasn't a draw either, which is good as that angle was also vile. That said, it was sort of hilarious when they realised how much they had hosed up and had Sarge WANT HIS COUNTRY BACK within months of burning
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Jul 22, 2020 18:47
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TUS posted:If I remember correctly, Hassan had "I dont know what the hell this is" heat. WWE pushed him hard with an Undefeated streak, a group elimination when he entered the Royal Rumble and had him with Hogan at WM21. I dont think he really got go away heat until the London Bombing thing I think that BOLA had a lot of cancellations for travel
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Jul 22, 2020 18:48
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I remember a shoot interview with Slaughter where he said he was about as dumbfounded as anyone when they told him he was winning the title. Like, even he didn't think that was a good idea but it isn't like he was going to say no Actually as I recall, he was all for the heel turn when it was just Slaughter bemoaning how cowardly America was for not declaring war. Then they *did* declare war and he was like, oh gently caress DeathChicken fucked around with this message at 18:55 on Jul 22, 2020 |
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Jul 22, 2020 18:53
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DeathChicken posted:I remember a shoot interview with Slaughter where he said he was about as dumbfounded as anyone when they told him he was winning the title. Like, even he didn't think that was a good idea but it isn't like he was going to say no yeah, Sarge handled it about as well as could be expected. Nobody could reasonably expect him to turn down making good money, it just all fell apart when war actually happened.
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Jul 22, 2020 19:03
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Hassan was the best kind of heel. The technically correct heel.
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Jul 22, 2020 19:09
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Randaconda posted:The whole Irag war angle tanked business to the point they had to move 'Mania to a much smaller arena and spread a phony bomb threat story to cover it. The bomb threat came from inside Titan Tower
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Jul 22, 2020 19:10
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Endless Mike posted:The bomb threat came from inside Titan Tower "There's a bomb, dude. It's gonna kill a whole lotta people, JACK,"
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Jul 22, 2020 19:19
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Halloween Jack posted:There are too many successful racist or homophobic heel gimmicks to list, but the ones that exploited global tragedies are on another level. septiembre negro luchador whose gimmick was based on the terrorist group that executed the munich massacre
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Jul 22, 2020 19:44
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oldpainless posted:Hassan was the best kind of heel. One thing I want AEW to do with MJF is have him participate in a rumble or scramble post Wardlow split, and lift the spot from Hassan's rumble appearance where as soon he enters everyone drops what they're doing to light him up because he's such a poo poo
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Jul 22, 2020 20:22
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oldpainless posted:Hassan was the best kind of heel. This is the worst kind of heel, the best kinds of heels are just evil sociopaths who revel in being dicks. And if he was technically correct you are saying all Muslims are terrorists because he turned out to be a terrorist so I don't think he was remotely correct. Maigius posted:Are there any remotely good books on the AWA? I've brought up a bunch of my dad's memories and I think he'd enjoy reading it. There's only one that I've heard of and I've never seen any reviews or historians talking about it, unfortunately. It's a shame because there have been good Memphis, JCP and World Class docs but none really about the AWA, and no good books like we got for San Francisco or Montreal. Edit: drat even the Ray Stevens tribute episode of Wrestling Observer Live isn't on Youtube, that had some great stories from Bockwinkel and Heenan about Stevens and the AWA. Only a couple of clips that I uploaded awhile ago https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ygdM5pdz9IE (USER WAS PUT ON PROBATION FOR THIS POST) MassRafTer fucked around with this message at 20:43 on Jul 22, 2020 |
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Jul 22, 2020 20:32
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Hogan and Sarge should have feuded over having the best Hasbro fig.
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Jul 22, 2020 20:55
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Not that it really matters, but is there a ballpark figure for how much the recent round of ex-WWE guys picked up by IMPACT are getting paid? Or how their deals are different from that of WWE other than being able to do indies? Also piggybacking off of that, I do wonder what IMPACT has to gain by hiring dudes like Hawkins or even Heath (who is cool and good). The Good Brothers I understand, but it just seems like a bit of a step backward from developing new talent. Are they going to move the needle at all? Maybe it's apples and oranges but just thinking about guys like Sandow where it's like "Oh, wait until they're out of the WWE's system" and then they suck poo poo. On that note, I'm legitimately happy that they're getting paid and it's dogshit that they got let go in the first place. If it's partially a show of goodwill and solidarity then that's reason enough. I also don't really know IMPACT's financial situation anymore.
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Jul 22, 2020 22:55
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Orange Cassidy used to be Fire Ant, whose gimmick in Chikara was based around being super energetic and doing crazy spots.
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Jul 22, 2020 23:03
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Destroy My Sweater posted:Also piggybacking off of that, I do wonder what IMPACT has to gain by hiring dudes like Hawkins or even Heath (who is cool and good). The Good Brothers I understand, but it just seems like a bit of a step backward from developing new talent. Are they going to move the needle at all? Maybe it's apples and oranges but just thinking about guys like Sandow where it's like "Oh, wait until they're out of the WWE's system" and then they suck poo poo. Hawkins/Myers has had a run or two with them before and Heath has that Rhino thing so I imagine its people within the company advocating for guys they think will be good for the roster (which has had a deficiency for awhile). None of it really moves the needle for me but as far as "developing talent" goes they crowned Chris Bey X Champ at the same show they debuted/returned most of these guys and it seems to have gotten no buzz. Weirdly the returns that seem to have had the most affect on the card and buzz are the MCMG, the guys they didn't get from WWE.
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Jul 22, 2020 23:31
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It's amazing to me that WWE brought Shelley in, reunited the Time Splitters... and had them lose in the first round of a tournament, despite apparently having literally no plans for KUSHIDA except 'stop him working for NJPW or AEW'.
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Jul 22, 2020 23:35
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Lamuella posted:Orange Cassidy used to be Fire Ant, whose gimmick in Chikara was based around being super energetic and doing crazy spots. Chuck Taylor finally scrubbed his YouTube so I am just going to quote the video: Fire Ant is a bad motherfucker He's going to kick you in the brain Going to give you the stone cold stunner. Kicking rear end Smoking Grass But he really loves cocaine Fire Ant loves cocaine, baby. Gaz-L posted:It's amazing to me that WWE brought Shelley in, reunited the Time Splitters... and had them lose in the first round of a tournament, despite apparently having literally no plans for KUSHIDA except 'stop him working for NJPW or AEW'. He didn't sign a contract and was going to continue taking indie bookings as he wanted. It makes sense that you would treat him like a one shot and not give Alex Shelley any shine since he decided he wasn't going to become a cog in your machine.
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Jul 23, 2020 00:46
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Gaz-L posted:It's amazing to me that WWE brought Shelley in, reunited the Time Splitters... and had them lose in the first round of a tournament, despite apparently having literally no plans for KUSHIDA except 'stop him working for NJPW or AEW'. what about this is amazing to you. ruining wrestlers/acts that got over in new japan or didnt get over in tna/roh is wwe's entire thing
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Jul 23, 2020 00:48
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Super No Vacancy posted:what about this is amazing to you. ruining wrestlers/acts that got over in new japan or didnt get over in tna/roh is wwe's entire thing I suppose the sheer consistency with which they do it and yet somehow convince a big chunk of their audience and recruits that they're 'the best' at getting people over. karmicknight posted:He didn't sign a contract and was going to continue taking indie bookings as he wanted. It makes sense that you would treat him like a one shot and not give Alex Shelley any shine since he decided he wasn't going to become a cog in your machine.
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Jul 23, 2020 01:47
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I think the assumption was that they would get their way and Alex Shelley's soul would belong to them.
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Jul 23, 2020 01:48
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Something that is not said about the Iraqi-Sympathizer Sgt. Slaughter Angle is that they had The Iron Sheik playing General Adnan(?). The iron Sheik is Iranian. A proud Iranian who represented his country at the Olympics. So they had him represent an Iraqi military officer. Iran and Iraq had fought an extremely bloody 8 year war very recently. So they were making Sheik represent a general that had most likely ordered the deaths of thousands of his own countrymen, but that was OK because he is brown and foreign, so the audience wont know the difference anyways.
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Jul 23, 2020 02:15
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BrigadierSensible posted:Something that is not said about the Iraqi-Sympathizer Sgt. Slaughter Angle is that they had The Iron Sheik playing General Adnan(?). Sheik was Col Mustafa, Sheik Adnan Al-Kasee became Gen Adnan. Also, Al-Kasee was a former WWF Tag Team Champ ... as the Native American wrestler Billy White Wolf.
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Jul 23, 2020 02:19
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BrigadierSensible posted:Something that is not said about the Iraqi-Sympathizer Sgt. Slaughter Angle is that they had The Iron Sheik playing General Adnan(?). You know I know proud Iranian was his gimmick but didn't he expatriate because the government killed his friend and he was afraid he was next? is that story bullshit? Dunno how patriotic you can be after something like that. Also; Hassan's gimmick was doomed because Americans are dicks who weren't going to cheer a Muslim right after 9/11 so he couldn't be face but he was so completely justified that no face could play foil to him without coming off as the biggest nationalist dick imaginable so he couldn't be a very good heel either. Maybe don't have a Muslim gimmick right after 9/11 (Hassan himself was Italian anyway).
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Jul 23, 2020 06:08
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The idea as it originally played out was a bit like if MJF started going "You people just can't stand to see a Jew be successful" while continuing to be MJF in every regard. Way the gently caress too layered for a WWE audience
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Jul 23, 2020 06:19
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I feel like Hassan being a poo poo while blaming the crowd for hating him on Islamophobia would have it's own problems. I'm not quite sure how MJF gets away with it. Probably because it's such a muted part of his gimmick that you can kinda ignore it. MJF being Jewish is secondary to MJF being MJF. Hassan was more 'HEY LOOK AT ME I AM A MUSLIM!'
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Jul 23, 2020 06:25
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ChrisBTY posted:I feel like Hassan being a poo poo while blaming the crowd for hating him on Islamophobia would have it's own problems. I'm not quite sure how MJF gets away with it. Probably because it's such a muted part of his gimmick that you can kinda ignore it. MJF being Jewish is secondary to MJF being MJF. Hassan was more 'HEY LOOK AT ME I AM A MUSLIM!' It works because when MJF brings it up I can believe that it's real and that it's coming from him, not a writer or executive in the back. It's a testament to how scummy the business is that making an Italian-American guy pretend to be an Arab to cash in on post 9/11 fear-mongering probably doesn't even crack the top 100 terrible things the WWE has done.
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Jul 23, 2020 07:54
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BrigadierSensible posted:Something that is not said about the Iraqi-Sympathizer Sgt. Slaughter Angle is that they had The Iron Sheik playing General Adnan(?). I think he only tried out for a spot on the Iranian team, didn't he? Then was a coach on the American team later?
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Jul 23, 2020 08:54
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I’ve been thinking about watching through Lucha Underground as I’ve never seen it beyond a few matches. Is there a pared down watch list of episodes to to go through to see kind of the main story beats and best matches, or should I just watch it in its entirety?
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Jul 23, 2020 19:57
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Dacap posted:I’ve been thinking about watching through Lucha Underground as I’ve never seen it beyond a few matches. I'd just recommend watching the first three seasons in its entirety. After that, you could watch season 4, but you're going to come out of it extremely disappointed.
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Jul 23, 2020 20:22
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Yeah, its really story and continuity heavy. A lot of what made Lucha Underground so unique was that it was much of a serialized tv show than most any other wrestling show.
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Jul 23, 2020 20:37
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How long after Taker’s debut did Paul Bearer show up? I know he came out with Brother Love at the ‘90 Survivor Series, but I don’t remember if it lasted all that long. EDIT: It always amused me that we don’t know his name. It didn’t matter much until Kane showed up and Bearer was all “Your brother Kane is coming!” but then Kane has to refer to him as Undertaker instead of, you know, a name. Pope Corky the IX fucked around with this message at 21:08 on Jul 23, 2020 |
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Jul 23, 2020 20:58
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Pope Corky the IX posted:How long after Taker’s debut did Paul Bearer show up? I know he came out with Brother Love at the ‘90 Survivor Series, but I don’t remember if it lasted all that long. Wikipedia says that Paul Bearer debuted in February of 1991, so Taker was only with Brother Love for like three months.
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Jul 23, 2020 21:02
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Dacap posted:I’ve been thinking about watching through Lucha Underground as I’ve never seen it beyond a few matches. A common answer is to start with Aztec Warfare 1 because season 1 is kind of stalling for time while they get everyone's visa issues worked out at first. And yeah I agree watch the first three seasons. Four has some good wrestling but the show just isn't what it was.
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Jul 23, 2020 21:22
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Did the WWE ever use nameplates on their belts before they bought WCW? It seems that they started once they had possession of the big gold belt and next thing you know people are getting personalized titles and custom plates for the sides and everything. Before 2001 I only remember the smoking skull belt and I know there was one commissioned for the Rock that they never ended up using.
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Jul 24, 2020 01:54
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