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Booley posted:The plastic is all cast in the UK, the boxes and books are printed in china. Huh. This weirdly makes me a little more okay with tolerating GW's high price point. How is GW as an employer anyway, out of curiosity? Both for GW store managers and otherwise. Keeping your manufacturing and not going for the industry standard route of printing in China would indicate that they either actually give a drat about their people or that there's some other factor. Edit: completely off-topic newbie question since someone mentioned 2000 pts being the standard tournament size upthread. What's the standard go-to size for your average beer-and-pretzels game? 1000-1500?
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Jul 23, 2020 06:01
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Drone posted:Huh. This weirdly makes me a little more okay with tolerating GW's high price point. My understanding is that compensation for retail workers is OK, in the US they actually get healthcare. Studio/design staff are underpaid and rely on people wanting to work on what they love. Standard game size, at least around me, has been 2k for all of 8th, with very occasional 1500 games.
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Jul 23, 2020 06:08
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Drone posted:Huh. This weirdly makes me a little more okay with tolerating GW's high price point. Playing aggressively in TTS you can fit to the times that GW suggest for the differing sizes. 500 pts took us about an hour, 1000 pts inside two. That said, all of these games have people conceding in Turn 3 because the new missions are utterly punishing if you fall behind.
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Jul 23, 2020 06:31
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Kitchner posted:The hobby is vastly more expensive if you feel you need to buy armies to chase the meta all the time and you need to play at tournament levels of 2,000 points. I think to be honest unless you’re in an actual tournament meta chasing/netlists/powergaming is a great way to suck the fun out the hobby. When I first got into 40k back in 5th in my social group there was one person who was That Guy. Would constantly try and rule lawyer and set up terrain in his favour, and would always complain how his opponents unit was overpowered/broken and his own were underpowered. Never had any correct models it seemed though, he was always proxying stuff and nothing was ever painted. drat near got me to stop playing until I had to move back in with my parents. It’s why I’ve always been a bit hesitant to go and play at GW stores when they have their game nights on because it only takes one That Guy to drag the whole thing down.
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Jul 23, 2020 08:28
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I think the terrain sprues are made in China too. I could be wrong though.
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Jul 23, 2020 09:58
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Drone posted:
Theoretically how 8th worked (and all previous editions I played really) is that the missions provided in the rulebook can be played at any size, and there was no "standard" in the rulebook. What tended to happen though was that people would generally play games sized around what tournament play was designed to be as it was perceived to be the "standard". So in 5th nearly every game I ever played was 1,500 points, in 8th nearly every game was 2,000. The exception was against new players who didn't have that many models. In 9th the idea is that there are specific missions at each points level designed to work at that level. For example, the 500 point missions don't require you to stay on an objective to claim it, which is good because you probably don't have a lot of units to claim objectives with. On top of that, the new smaller board size is partly an attempt to make it so people can play on their dining tables and don't require larger tables to play. So in terms of casually playing, the size is probably still going to be 2,000 points, which is a good few hours of play (3-4 hours for newer players I reckon from unpacking to packing away) so that's essentially your afternoon. With Crusade starting with 1,000 points of models and the game being a bit more complex (in terms of tracking each units abilities) maybe you'll see more games at 500 or 1,000 points but if you had 6 players and they all have 2,000+ points of models the only reason to play less is time really. Theoretically there's even missions for 3,000 points plus but to be honest I find 40K becomes very much a slog after you reach that sort of level of models. Lord Ludikrous posted:
While this is a hobby that tends to attract introverted nerds with bad social skills, I think That Guy exists in every hobby, it's just more obvious or maybe slightly more prevalent due to the demographics. If it wasn't miniatures and instead was a triathlon club, it would be smug prick with all the best gear who isn't happy unless he has the best times, and fires off digs at people they don't think did well enough, while also down talking anyone who beats their time. It's one of the reasons I like the 10VP for having a battle ready army. I don't have data to back it up, but anecdotally most of the really unpleasant people never painted their stuff, because they only engaged with the game part of the hobby and obsessed over it (often they weren't even that good). Pick up games are fine, occasionally you have to deal with an unpleasant player but it's all down to how you deal with it. Cheats you obviously need to call out but that's no different to a tournament. People with obnoxious attitudes you just beat by simply letting them know you're not happy and packing up if you don't want to play them. That Guy is nearly always a regular too, so you'll figure them out fairly quick and you never have to play them again after that.
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Jul 23, 2020 10:56
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Lord Ludikrous posted:Never had any correct models it seemed though, he was always proxying stuff and nothing was ever painted. How does proxying work in 40k? I bought the indomitus box and a box of triarch praetorians to get back into 40k. Those praetorians have so many different layouts it seems hard to keep up with them having the load out you want at the time. Also I don’t know what’s good now I just want to put it together and don’t want to make the wrong choices Elmon fucked around with this message at 15:55 on Jul 23, 2020 |
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Jul 23, 2020 15:50
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Elmon posted:How does proxying work in 40k? I bought the indomitus box and a box of triarch praetorians to get back into 40k. Those praetorians have so many different layouts it seems hard to keep up with them having the load out you want at the time. If it's consistent and easy to remember, you shouldn't have a ton of problems. If it becomes confusing people won't want to deal with it. If it comes to weapon swaps and things it can defo start falling into the confusing category...but you'll have to see what the locals will tolerate. Booley posted:My understanding is that compensation for retail workers is OK, in the US they actually get healthcare. Studio/design staff are underpaid and rely on people wanting to work on what they love. To be fair this happens in a lot of industries and artists/designers tend to get less than they're worth everywhere. Globalization has hit the artists hard. Who are some well-paid artists? Probably the top tier comic book guys. Doesn't MTG pay pretty well?
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Jul 23, 2020 16:01
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I haven't played any 40k since Kill Team came out. My wife has expressed interest in trying it out. What's a good introduction to this kind of thing for someone who hasn't done anything like this before and hadn't heard of Warhammer before I mentioned it? I own the 8th edition rulebook, some codexes and Kill Team. We could do Kill Team or use my 8th edition book, or maybe we go for 9th? Also now there's something about psychik awakening? Should I get that? Or maybe something else came out that's good to start with? I have substantial Tyranid and CSM armies, plus like 1000pts of GSC. Definitely enough to do just about anything I think. Regardless of whether we go for 9th edition or stick with 8th, I will buy her new books since mine are in English and it's not her native language so money isn't really the issue here. Elmon posted:How does proxying work in 40k? I bought the indomitus box and a box of triarch praetorians to get back into 40k. Those praetorians have so many different layouts it seems hard to keep up with them having the load out you want at the time. For the regular units I don't think it matters that much as long as you're up front about it. I magnetized any big units and I was very up front about what my units are and made sure people didn't accidentally attack a unit when they might be under a misconception. Also I avoided playing with people that made a huge deal out of everything being exactly right. a7m2 fucked around with this message at 16:08 on Jul 23, 2020 |
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Jul 23, 2020 16:06
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If you're going to proxy something really weird, it can help to include a sticky note along with the unit as a reminder / courtesy. (This is how we'd play WHFB when someone wanted to field a loadout other than what they'd modeled.)
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Jul 23, 2020 16:09
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If you already have everything to play Kill Team, I'd say go with that to teach your wife. The smaller scale should make it much easier to pick up and get playing. A lot less to focus on in terms of special rules too since it's just like, "Here's your Chaos Marine and your Cultists" and that's it - at least until you add in Commanders / Elites. If she enjoys it then you can explain differences between KT and 40K and see if she's cool with that. From what I can tell, Psychic Awakening is just a bunch of rules supplements for a bunch of different Armies. If you're no more invested in playing 40K than she is, I'd say hold off on dropping money on the 9E book. 8th was fundamentally good, IMO, and only fell apart when everyone started Souping everything up hardcore and abusing CP regeneration. 9th does change up some stuff, but the biggest change is un-loving Detachments / the CP system. So again if you're just looking to only play with the wife I'd sooner save the $60 or whatever the book costs. Sab669 fucked around with this message at 16:19 on Jul 23, 2020 |
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Jul 23, 2020 16:16
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Sab669 posted:If you already have everything to play Kill Team, I'd say go with that to teach your wife. See I would totally disagree with this. My girlfriend played Kill Team with me a couple of times, and shes not a natural gamer in the sense it takes her a while to pick up the rules of board games, and she very much learns by doing. We played 3 games of Kill Team and I don't think she will remember any of the rules as such, but I honestly think Kill Team is more complicated and requires way more finesse than 40K at a small points scale. I would genuinely play a 9th edition combat patrol game. You can even use non-battle forged armies by saying "What do you think looks cool?" and just chucking it all together, and totally ignore things like stratagems and strategic reserves. I think for brand new players teaching them "Move all your stuff, shoot all your stuff, stab with all your stuff" is way easier than "we roll off for initiative, then we both move our entire armies including charging, then we take it in turns to shoot models, then we take it in turns to fight with models". I'm fully anticipating having to help my girlfriend un-learn stuff from KT to 40K as it were, because she will probably be expecting to take it in turns, get negatives to hit, or have models not die immediately when they fail armour saves.
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Jul 23, 2020 16:30
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I have a question about Imperial Guard. Are they really boring to play or what? I watched a battle report of IG vs Orks and it seemed like the entire army was just a bunch of tanks that didn't move at all and just blasted from their end of the battlefield. Is that typical? When I was a kid and played a little (20-something years ago), the focus seemed more balanced between tanks and lots and lots and lots of infantry, which is more interesting to me at least
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Jul 23, 2020 16:33
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jesus WEP posted:I have a question about Imperial Guard. Are they really boring to play or what? I watched a battle report of IG vs Orks and it seemed like the entire army was just a bunch of tanks that didn't move at all and just blasted from their end of the battlefield. Is that typical? When I was a kid and played a little (20-something years ago), the focus seemed more balanced between tanks and lots and lots and lots of infantry, which is more interesting to me at least Tank or infantry gunlines are both viable choices and thats likely just the players list. The issue with 8th edition (Which I assume the game was) was aura buffs meant gunlines with an HQ buffing the units made playing a certain way necessary. 9th looks to have more dynamic mission types at least.
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Jul 23, 2020 16:35
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Fair points - the only thing I don't like about 40K from a "First War game" perspective is the alternating turns means a lot of down time for the opponent. But yes, learning KT and then learning 40K if so inclined would probably be confusing. Maybe explain the differences first and see what she thinks sounds more fun 
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Jul 23, 2020 16:35
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jesus WEP posted:I have a question about Imperial Guard. Are they really boring to play or what? I watched a battle report of IG vs Orks and it seemed like the entire army was just a bunch of tanks that didn't move at all and just blasted from their end of the battlefield. Is that typical? When I was a kid and played a little (20-something years ago), the focus seemed more balanced between tanks and lots and lots and lots of infantry, which is more interesting to me at least Gunline armies are all about sitting back and prioritising targets, if you let them do that. So like I played a game years ago back in 5th edition on a 4x4 board, and it was my Cadians vs a Blood Angel army. It was scatter terrain rules so sort of set up semi-randomly, and there was a big firelane. He literally charged down it at me, and by the end of my second turn his entire army was dead, not a single one had even hit me in close combat. That wasn't a very good game for me or for him, I didn't really need to do much because I rolled so well on shooting and he left himself wide open, but the same can be said if you manage to easily get charges off against a gunline, you're just going from combat to combat smacking dudes about. The trick to Imperial Guard being interesting is the fact that while your tanks can hang back a bit and shoot, your infantry are vulnerable, and while you have a lot of them, your enemies have a lot of bullets. You can start pushing up the board and go on the offensive, but you need to time that really well. You need to identify which threats to take out and take them out to protect your infantry. Sometimes this is killing their anti-tank first because if they get your tanks off the board your infantry are hosed. Others it's focusing on their anti-infantry, because you know your tanks can take the punishment and maybe their anti-tank is infantry units susceptible to lasgun fire. In 9th the Guard need to carefully think about how and when they will push to claim board objectives, because they give away a lot of secondary points, so you'll need to really score well on the primaries and deny primaries to your opponent. It really depends what you find interesting. I find a lot of battle reports dull because when you're not invested in the game, it really is just two dudes rolling dice and pushing models you've never seen with your own eyes around. Compare that to watching a friend play, it's miles apart. Sab669 posted:Fair points - the only thing I don't like about 40K from a "First War game" perspective is the alternating turns means a lot of down time for the opponent. Thing is the downtime doesn't matter, because you're explaining everything. In your turn you're saying "OK, so my guys can move 6", so you can see I'm measuring from t he front of the base of this guy, and moving him 6", and now I'll just move the others up so they are roughly behind him, no need to measure individually" or whatever. In their turn you're explaining what their units do and what their options are. It is only an issue if you aren't having a conversation about what you're doing and why, which is fine when you're trying to beat someone but not when you're teaching them. That's my view anyway. Ultimately some people do prefer the smaller game format from the off, they like the idea of more personalised people and a smaller team. If that's the case though I'd say don't try to teach both at once for sure, do one or the other until they are really happy with the rules.
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Jul 23, 2020 16:49
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Admittedly after playing other war games that do alternating activation 40k's "Move everything in the same turn" approach feels very antiquated, if nothing else it gives a significant first turn advantage because it lets your entire gunline move up and fire and probably chip a few units off the board if youre particularly lucky or your opponent didnt prepare. You can argue that players should prepare for the possibility they go second but in many cases thats just not a possibility. At least with alternating activation only one unit gets to go first so the other player has some tactical decisions in how to retaliate.
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Jul 23, 2020 16:56
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Yea frankly I much prefer alternating activations, but generally I can't stand the WarmaHordes community. At least not locally, anyways. Bunch of try-hards who always only ever want to practice their meta tournament lists and Fun is not in their vocabulary. And then trying to play any game that isn't those 2 has been met with posting on Facebook groups trying to find anyone interested in playing XYZ to no result.
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Jul 23, 2020 17:16
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Does anyone have a picture of a wardog/armiger by a defiler? Im looking to see how close they are in size as defilers are hot right now but the model is well, not great.
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Jul 23, 2020 17:16
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Sab669 posted:Yea frankly I much prefer alternating activations, but generally I can't stand the WarmaHordes community. At least not locally, anyways. Bunch of try-hards who always only ever want to practice their meta tournament lists and Fun is not in their vocabulary. Star Wars Legion is really good if you can find people in your area, easily my favorite non-GW game. It was starting to gain momentum just before COVID (they introduced the clone wars which sparked a lot of interest) but then social distancing wrecked a lot of games.
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Jul 23, 2020 17:29
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RagnarokAngel posted:but then social distancing wrecked a lot of games. I wonder how many people are going to come out of this with fully painted armies
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Jul 23, 2020 17:37
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Spanish Manlove posted:I wonder how many people are going to come out of this with fully painted armies That was a big meme at the beginning of the epidemic but I mean, it's not always easy to get paint now.
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Jul 23, 2020 17:43
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Two Headed Calf posted:Does anyone have a picture of a wardog/armiger by a defiler? Im looking to see how close they are in size as defilers are hot right now but the model is well, not great. No photos but: The bodies are similar in size but the footprint of the Defiler is massively larger - much closer to the Arachnarok (160mm base) than the Armiger (100mm).
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Jul 23, 2020 17:51
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https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Zp44GNRzvCc all in on 40k Left 4 Dead
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Jul 23, 2020 17:57
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Babe Magnet posted:all in on Left 40k Dead
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Jul 23, 2020 18:04
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Babe Magnet posted:https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Zp44GNRzvCc  Dark Heresy the FPS could be baller just because it's Fat Shark and they've got that stuff down pat by now.
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Jul 23, 2020 18:04
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Sab669 posted:Yea frankly I much prefer alternating activations, but generally I can't stand the WarmaHordes community. At least not locally, anyways. Bunch of try-hards who always only ever want to practice their meta tournament lists and Fun is not in their vocabulary. Gaming culture is very local, and it tends to snowball - for better or for worse. The local WarmaHordes community here is great, which is probably why it still exists. The leads are mindful about new players and making sure they don't get crushed out of the hobby. Actually, I went into Warmahordes after discovering the local Warhammer branch had a few too many "throw-back personalities", so to speak. Seems like that was actually a common take, as a new Warhammer community was launched. It was expressly casual and welcoming and has been enormously successful. Moreover, the existence of another option has resulted in a broad willingness to push back against the "get woke go broke" crowd, and seems to be taking the edges off the pre-existing community too.
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Jul 23, 2020 18:05
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dicking around as inquisitorial troops is going to be a good time, I was actually thinking about working on an inquisition detachment for my IG so this was cool timing
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Jul 23, 2020 18:05
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Babe Magnet posted:https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Zp44GNRzvCc It's made by Fatshark, who made Vermintide, which was WFB Left 4 Dead. So I guess this is the 40K Vermintide. Looks great, I'm glad you're not space marines.
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Jul 23, 2020 18:06
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Vermintide was great fun, looking forward to a 40k version.
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Jul 23, 2020 18:11
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Drone posted:Huh. This weirdly makes me a little more okay with tolerating GW's high price point. In 2018 GW split £5m in bonuses among 1700 staff. In 2019 they did it again. They're not the best but they seem to be genuinely decent. And I think the books, or at least some, are printed in the UK now as well. They've really been moving away from China of late.
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Jul 23, 2020 18:12
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Neato! Another random one, since in my boredom I've been looking at ways to waste more money on tiny chunks of plastic: how good/bad are Eliminators? I really dig their look.
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Jul 23, 2020 18:15
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Elmon posted:How does proxying work in 40k? I bought the indomitus box and a box of triarch praetorians to get back into 40k. Those praetorians have so many different layouts it seems hard to keep up with them having the load out you want at the time. Proxying is just using a different model in place of what it should be. I only play casual games with my friends and we proxy all the time to try new stuff before buying models, or if a model is still being painted. We always explain what our armies are at the start of each match, and proxies are always obvious proxies to avoid confusion. Play a few games with your Triarchs before you attach their arms and see what you like the most. In a casual game as long as you tell your opponent what they’re armed with it shouldn’t be an issue.
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Jul 23, 2020 18:36
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Babe Magnet posted:https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Zp44GNRzvCc I hope it's more L4D and less Vermintide in that there is actually a versus mode that's super sick. I'll play it regardless though.
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Jul 23, 2020 20:06
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tangy yet delightful posted:I hope it's more L4D and less Vermintide in that there is actually a versus mode that's super sick. I'll play it regardless though. It still kind of irks me that Aliens: Colonial Marines could have been this, but it just dropped the ball in every single possible way.
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Jul 23, 2020 20:24
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It's probaly not l4d dead, as it doesn't look like it has a versus mode. Just 4-player co-op like vermintide - which was more of a fantasy fighting loot focused game in first person - more like payday. I thought vermintide was really underrated so not too fussed.
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Jul 23, 2020 22:05
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Revelation 2-13 posted:It's probaly not l4d dead, as it doesn't look like it has a versus mode. Just 4-player co-op like vermintide - which was more of a fantasy fighting loot focused game in first person - more like payday. I thought vermintide was really underrated so not too fussed. I suspect that the game named similarly to Vermintide, by the makers of Vermintide, explicitly made as a 40k Vermintide, may bear resemblance to Vermintide.
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Jul 23, 2020 22:17
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Revelation 2-13 posted:It's probaly not l4d dead, as it doesn't look like it has a versus mode. Just 4-player co-op like vermintide - which was more of a fantasy fighting loot focused game in first person - more like payday. I thought vermintide was really underrated so not too fussed. Yeah don't get me wrong I loved Vermintide 2 (didn't play 1 much) I just loved L4D more but as PantsOptional said pretty likely this'll be Vermintide 3: SciFi boogaloo
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Jul 23, 2020 22:19
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I don't remember L4D having a versus mode but I did see Fatshark has been working on one for Vermintide 2. One side will play as monsters or something. With all the Tencent money they can add new classes to VT2, work on the pvp mode, and start this new game I guess.
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Jul 23, 2020 22:26
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Vermintide was fun because Skaven are goofy. Chaos cultists are not funny! So I really hope they figure some other way of injecting some levity. Shoulda been Orktide
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Jul 23, 2020 22:37
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