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Jan 13, 2008




biznatchio posted:

I'm sure you chose your job based on how much you care about the company you work for and would gladly have taken a lower-paying position doing more work at a less stable company. In fact if you're not working for the legal minimum wage at a company that's in danger of folding within the next six months I'd say you're a total leech on the system and you should be the first one fed into the soylent machines.

Now you get it.

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Name Change
Oct 9, 2005


In what is not terribly surprising on review, Hertz declared bankruptcy on Friday, since there's been essentially no reason to rent a car since March.

https://www.nytimes.com/2020/05/22/business/hertz-bankruptcy-coronavirus-car-rental.html

Mister Facetious
Apr 21, 2007

I think I died and woke up in L.A.,
I don't know how I wound up in this place...

:canada:
So, does that mean there's about to be a poo poo ton of used fleet vehicles hitting the secondhand market?

Horseshoe theory
Mar 7, 2005

Mister Facetious posted:

So, does that mean there's about to be a poo poo ton of used fleet vehicles hitting the secondhand market?

Yes - Hertz, Enterprise and Avis are all in the process of offloading cars they own into the market given the crash in car rentals (since most of them occur near/at airports, which also have crashed in activity).

KittyEmpress
Dec 30, 2012

Jam Buddies

Sodomy Hussein posted:

In what is not terribly surprising on review, Hertz declared bankruptcy on Friday, since there's been essentially no reason to rent a car since March.

https://www.nytimes.com/2020/05/22/business/hertz-bankruptcy-coronavirus-car-rental.html

The upper management took pay cuts during the beginning of the downturn, but that was reversed recently. Paired with 'oh yeah they let go of half their staff' recently.


...What.

pseudanonymous
Aug 30, 2008

When you make the second entry and the debits and credits balance, and you blow them to hell.

KittyEmpress posted:

The upper management took pay cuts during the beginning of the downturn, but that was reversed recently. Paired with 'oh yeah they let go of half their staff' recently.


...What.

They probably thought it would be short term and short term cuts to keep a long term sweet gig were worth it. Then they realized it wouldn't be short term and the company would have to be restructured, so they decided to loot it while they still could.

WAR CRIME GIGOLO
Oct 3, 2012

The Hague
tryna get me
for these glutes

How can you gently caress up a business that owns 3 things. Lots cars and portable offices

pseudanonymous
Aug 30, 2008

When you make the second entry and the debits and credits balance, and you blow them to hell.

WAR CRIME GIGOLO posted:

How can you gently caress up a business that owns 3 things. Lots cars and portable offices

For a lot of these business it doesn't matter what they do, they're public, and because of the advantages of debt vs equity financing (debt is tax deductible) it's more advantageous for their shareholders for the company to return as much cash as possible to the shareholders (and especially executives) in the form of stock buybacks and then run the company on debt. So they have debt servicing to perform, monthly, which uses up almost all of their revenue.

so if they don't make any money for like 2 months they risk bankruptcy.

Punkin Spunkin
Jan 1, 2010

Missing Donut posted:

No, it’s a recognition that it’s an unreasonable fantasy to say that one person can solely overturn the current state of capitalism if they individually take lower pay. The current machinations of the economy says that the pay of a CEO of a retail company JC Penney’s size is worth $X per year on average. All I’m saying is that, all else equal, anybody who is in a position to become CEO would be absolutely stupid to take the average rate of pay to take on the harder task.
Really didnt expect this level of 🤡 poo poo

WAR CRIME GIGOLO
Oct 3, 2012

The Hague
tryna get me
for these glutes

pseudanonymous posted:

For a lot of these business it doesn't matter what they do, they're public, and because of the advantages of debt vs equity financing (debt is tax deductible) it's more advantageous for their shareholders for the company to return as much cash as possible to the shareholders (and especially executives) in the form of stock buybacks and then run the company on debt. So they have debt servicing to perform, monthly, which uses up almost all of their revenue.

so if they don't make any money for like 2 months they risk bankruptcy.

As always the 2 things to kill a business: cash flow and management

BlueBlazer
Apr 1, 2010

pseudanonymous posted:

For a lot of these business it doesn't matter what they do, they're public, and because of the advantages of debt vs equity financing (debt is tax deductible) it's more advantageous for their shareholders for the company to return as much cash as possible to the shareholders (and especially executives) in the form of stock buybacks and then run the company on debt. So they have debt servicing to perform, monthly, which uses up almost all of their revenue.

so if they don't make any money for like 2 months they risk bankruptcy.

Gonna see the auto industry tank real hard too, wow never thought that all the way through. Like not just could, WILL.

Of course rental companies are subsidizing the auto industry, I wonder what percentage of new cars end up on rental lots nationwide. Nationwide fleet sales are something like 20% of total. Also just read a rule from 2017 that allowed companies to immediately depreciate the value of cars for tax purposes. Well that will sure be interesting.

The long term ramifications of COVID on the sales market are just getting started. Hold onto your butts.

Paradoxish
Dec 19, 2003

Will you stop going crazy in there?
There's really nothing that rental car companies can do at this point to not get hosed. The demand isn't there and it's not going to be there at least until next year. Some of these companies were seeing a nearly 100% reduction in demand, and it's not going to matter if that "improves" up to just -50% YoY. The companies that can survive that are still going to be reducing their fleet sizes and they sure as hell aren't going to be buying new vehicles.

Crumbskull
Sep 13, 2005

The worker and the soil

WAR CRIME GIGOLO posted:

being the CEO of a failing company is a challenge to be overcome. The choice is whether they will just cash out an inflated stock via purges or will they do right by the people / company.

Don't reply to me saying all CEOs are evil or some dumb shir. It's ignorant. You can be a CEO of a 5, 50 or 500 person company and still treat people decently. It resides in the person not the rank.

As a business advisor, director on a board and graduate student of business management: this is objectively false.

Doctor Butts
May 21, 2002

JCP is like the only department store I frequent. I hope they can stay alive.

Abner Assington
Mar 13, 2005

For I am a sinner in the hands of an angry god. Bloody Mary, full of vodka, blessed are you among cocktails. Pray for me now, at the hour of my death, which I hope is soon.

Amen.
I'm in the market for a used car since my lease is up in mid July (in years I've put ~9200 miles on it so lol don't plan on buying it) and so far my cursory searches have shown the market not imploding. Hurry up.

WAR CRIME GIGOLO
Oct 3, 2012

The Hague
tryna get me
for these glutes

Abner Assington posted:

I'm in the market for a used car since my lease is up in mid July (in years I've put ~9200 miles on it so lol don't plan on buying it) and so far my cursory searches have shown the market not imploding. Hurry up.

You can bring the price down on a lot of poo poo in the car world right now. Take multiple offers

Sundae
Dec 1, 2005

WAR CRIME GIGOLO posted:

How can you gently caress up a business that owns 3 things. Lots cars and portable offices

The same way every other company these days seems to kick the bucket. :negative:

quote:

In the decade preceding its collapse, Hertz took on too much debt, participated in overpriced M&A and was accused of playing accounting games to pad its earnings. (For more, read this colorful account from Bloomberg’s David Welch.)

So when disaster struck and a request for a government bailout was rejected (rightly in my view considering top shareholder Carl Icahn is worth some $18 billion), Hertz was already standing far too close to the precipice. Regrettably Covid-19 will probably expose more of this type of corporate frailty, both in America and around the world.

Hertz’s debt binge began when it was acquired by private equity firms from Ford Motor Co. in 2005; the new owners quickly took out a $1 billion dividend. Piling on debt juiced the potential returns for the owners and helped pay the inflated $2.3 billion price tag for the Dollar and Thrifty brands in 2012, which Hertz struggled to integrate.

Hertz was only able to amass an eye-watering total of $19 billion in borrowings thanks to a massive program of asset-backed lending, which became its primary source of capital.(2)

Special-purpose financial entities purchase cars on Hertz’s behalf, and investors in the asset-backed securities make a return via the lease payments that Hertz is obliged to stump up. Put another way, Hertz leases cars long term from the financing subsidiary — typically for about 18 months in the U.S. — and then rents them out to customers for shorter periods.


In theory, this is a stable and low-cost way for a risky borrower such as Hertz to fund the large capital outlays needed to keep its fleet looking fresh. Hertz’s corporate credit has been rated junk for the past decade but many of the asset-backed securities it issued were triple-A rated, at least until recently. However, economic shutdowns stemming from efforts to curb the new coronavirus suddenly threw a lot of sand in Hertz’s gears: The resale value of its vehicles fleet fell sharply, requiring the company to inject more cash into the financing structure.

Get bought by a private equity firm, have them load a poo poo-ton of bad debt onto you and leverage your own business against you, refuse to do anything to compete against Uber, Lyft and ZipCar-likes taking away most of the "casual" car rental market, and then have all business/extended travel crash and burn for a full quarter of the year. Blammo, dead.

sauer kraut
Oct 2, 2004
Ah, triple-A rated securities backed by tranches of rental cars and a leveraged buyout :allears:

Name Change
Oct 9, 2005


My current car is a Hertz rental return and has been a great value, so I don't look forward to having less choices if I go used again in the future.

(Rental returns are a controversial topic among car people in terms of their ROI; suffice it to say they are a good value because the cars need to meet higher quality standards from the company than your average used car to be sold as such).

silence_kit
Jul 14, 2011

by the sex ghost

Sodomy Hussein posted:

My current car is a Hertz rental return and has been a great value, so I don't look forward to having less choices if I go used again in the future.

(Rental returns are a controversial topic among car people in terms of their ROI; suffice it to say they are a good value because the cars need to meet higher quality standards from the company than your average used car to be sold as such).

This advice is contrary to the popular opinion in the BFC subforum car thread.

Thread title: AI meets BFC: Car Buying Thread: No Rentals and No Salvage Titles

Kerning Chameleon
Apr 8, 2015

by Cyrano4747
The last rental we had we ran right up to the mileage limit in the contract for our roadtrip.

It was Hertz though so lol even if they had blackballed us.

Name Change
Oct 9, 2005


This actually comes up a lot, has come up in this thread, and so on. My favorite answer to it is this:

quote:

As someone who does all of their own maintenance/repairs on their vehicle, I would say that rentals likely don't get abused more than any other car (would actually probably disagree actually) and they receive a lot more routine maintenance than most peoples cars. If you trash a rental, you'll end up paying for it. They walk around the car and inspect every panel. Now that doesn't take into consideration driving 120mph on the highway or driving like an rear end in a top hat but in general people who rent cars seem to be careful with them because they don't want to pay extra when they return it.

The average human is terrible at routine maintenance. People wonder why their cars break down the way they do and then junk/trade/sell them when major repairs are needed. People drive 300k miles on the original suspension. Some people never change spark plugs. Others don't change their oil nearly often enough. Some people never change their brakes. The amount of people driving on bald tires is fascinating. Rentals also likely get washed and vacuumed more often than most people will do to their own cars. The only thing is that they likely rack up a lot of miles in a short amount of time. Mileage isn't necessarily bad if you keep up the maintenance. Yes certain things wear out at certain points but mileage is mostly bad when its been neglected. Rentals are less likely to have dogs in them, and less likely to have been smoked in.

Rental or privately owned, neglected cars are bad and will give you 10x more problems that one which has likely been routinely serviced. I think new cars are a ripoff but at least you know you're not getting someone else's neglect.

https://forums.somethingawful.com/showthread.php?noseen=1&threadid=3032541&pagenumber=771&perpage=40#post488291813


silence_kit posted:

This advice is contrary to the popular opinion in the BFC subforum car thread.

Thread title: AI meets BFC: Car Buying Thread: No Rentals and No Salvage Titles

This thread took me a while to find because for some inexplicable reason it is in Ask/Tell, not BFC or AI

https://forums.somethingawful.com/showthread.php?threadid=3213538

silence_kit
Jul 14, 2011

by the sex ghost

Sodomy Hussein posted:

This thread took me a while to find because for some inexplicable reason it is in Ask/Tell, not BFC or AI

https://forums.somethingawful.com/showthread.php?threadid=3213538

Oh yeah, you’re right. Al+BFC=Ask/Tell?

Shit Fuckasaurus
Oct 14, 2005

i think right angles might be an abomination against nature you guys
Lipstick Apathy

silence_kit posted:

Oh yeah, you’re right. Al+BFC=Ask/Tell?

It fits the format, and if it wasn't there then there would be a steady stream of "TELL Me about buying a car" and minor variations thereof by people who don't read the stickies where it would tell you about the megathread.

It's not perfect but I get it

FCKGW
May 21, 2006

My local abandoned Circuit City that turns into a Spirit Halloween every October has suddenly turned into a store that exclusively sells nothing but medical face masks.

Spazzle
Jul 5, 2003

FCKGW posted:

My local abandoned Circuit City that turns into a Spirit Halloween every October has suddenly turned into a store that exclusively sells nothing but medical face masks.

It can transition to selling sexy face masks for halloween.

OneEightHundred
Feb 28, 2008

Soon, we will be unstoppable!

FCKGW posted:

My local abandoned Circuit City that turns into a Spirit Halloween every October has suddenly turned into a store that exclusively sells nothing but medical face masks.
Big opportunity for them if they can expand into toilet paper.

Horseshoe theory
Mar 7, 2005

FCKGW posted:

My local abandoned Circuit City that turns into a Spirit Halloween every October has suddenly turned into a store that exclusively sells nothing but medical face masks.

ETA until they get invaded/arrested for cornering the market/violating the Defense Production Act? :thunk:

Sundae
Dec 1, 2005
Where did they get enough masks to fill a loving Circuit City? :wtc:

pseudanonymous
Aug 30, 2008

When you make the second entry and the debits and credits balance, and you blow them to hell.

Sundae posted:

Where did they get enough masks to fill a loving Circuit City? :wtc:

They probably used fixtures and faux walls to block off most of the interior space?

Silly Burrito
Nov 27, 2007

SET A COURSE FOR
THE FLAVOR QUADRANT

Sundae posted:

Where did they get enough masks to fill a loving Circuit City? :wtc:

Remember that dude who had a story about him in the New York Times hoarding all the Lysol wipes before corona got very bad, etc? Maybe they had his stash.

OneEightHundred
Feb 28, 2008

Soon, we will be unstoppable!

Sundae posted:

Where did they get enough masks to fill a loving Circuit City? :wtc:
If it's anything like Spirit Halloween, then they probably got a short-term lease at cheap rates from a desperate landlord, so the lot being too big for what they need doesn't matter that much.

(You can look up images of Spirit interiors and there's often a massive amount of empty floor space when they use a former big box store's lot.)

pseudanonymous posted:

They probably used fixtures and faux walls to block off most of the interior space?
Make sure to add "fixtures and walls from the previous tenant," "sales floor space used as warehouse," and "unpainted drywall" to your bingo card.


A former Circuit City lot near me turned into an international supermarket that opened without doing any major remodeling, so it has the Circuit City diamond-shaped entryway, the side of the store that the TV showroom used to be still has the low ceilings with the tiny spotlights, and various other obvious Circuit City remnants.

OneEightHundred fucked around with this message at 06:24 on Jun 7, 2020

dphi
Jul 9, 2001

Sodomy Hussein posted:

This actually comes up a lot, has come up in this thread, and so on. My favorite answer to it is this:


https://forums.somethingawful.com/showthread.php?noseen=1&threadid=3032541&pagenumber=771&perpage=40#post488291813


This thread took me a while to find because for some inexplicable reason it is in Ask/Tell, not BFC or AI

https://forums.somethingawful.com/showthread.php?threadid=3213538

As somebody who worked for Alamo for a few years out of high school - the customers aren't who I'd worry about abusing the cars - those of doing the cleaning and parking on the other hand...

One of our favorite things to do when picking up cars at the lot near the airport at night was to drive by the airport drop-off area while turning key to see who could throw the most sparks out of the starter. Drifting out of the car wash was also fun until you tagged a pole, which happened often. Playing bumper cars in the car wash was also a riot.

Maintenance was as fails for the most part, and just lol at these cars getting like some detailed inspection upon return, we were way too busy for that.

skooma512
Feb 8, 2012

You couldn't grok my race car, but you dug the roadside blur.

dphi posted:

As somebody who worked for Alamo for a few years out of high school - the customers aren't who I'd worry about abusing the cars - those of doing the cleaning and parking on the other hand...

One of our favorite things to do when picking up cars at the lot near the airport at night was to drive by the airport drop-off area while turning key to see who could throw the most sparks out of the starter. Drifting out of the car wash was also fun until you tagged a pole, which happened often. Playing bumper cars in the car wash was also a riot.

Maintenance was as fails for the most part, and just lol at these cars getting like some detailed inspection upon return, we were way too busy for that.

I got the same car from New Mexico two times.

I knew to look for this car because the tires were cupped or something because it was like flying a Spitfire 100 miles rather than a car. The road noise was crazy loud.

Took it just in case they took my report but nope, problem was still there. I turned around and traded it. The guy was like yeah we didn’t fix it. Whatever, I got another car.

Not even the only bad rental I’ve had

Sundae
Dec 1, 2005
The bankruptcies are fun this month.

https://www.cnn.com/2020/07/25/business/july-bankruptcies-coronavirus/index.html

- Brooks Brothers
- NPC International (restaurant group, owns 1,200 Pizza Hut and 400 Wendy's restaurants, employs ~40,000 people)
- Lucky Jeans (never heard of them)
- Sur La Tabla
- Muji (never heard of them)
- RTW (owns New York & Co, other mall chain brands)
- Heritage (owns Arrow, other mall chain brands)
- Ascena (owns LOFT, Ann Taylor, and other women's clothing chains)


Additional biggish cuts from the article:

- Tailored Brands (K&G, Jos A Banks, Men's Wearhouse, etc) cuts ~20%
- PVH (Lots of mall brands like Calvin Klein, etc) cuts 12%

No Article Available For:

- GAP closing lots of stores after a nearly $1B loss reported in June. All three stores (lmao) on the main street in my town closed down permanently this month.




I'm honestly surprised it's this few in the end-of-month summaries I'm reading. I was expecting an utter bloodbath.

zetamind2000
Nov 6, 2007

I'm an alien.

Sundae posted:

- GAP closing lots of stores after a nearly $1B loss reported in June. All three stores (lmao) on the main street in my town closed down permanently this month.

Three GAP stores in one area? They're not Starbucks, that's completely unsustainable.

Retail is gonna collapse next month when the unemployment subsidies drop from $2,400 to $400.

Shit Fuckasaurus
Oct 14, 2005

i think right angles might be an abomination against nature you guys
Lipstick Apathy
Gap is Banana Republic and Old Navy, too. Middle class white people would be so mad if there was still a middle class.

Horseshoe theory
Mar 7, 2005

Sundae posted:

- Tailored Brands (K&G, Jos A Banks, Men's Wearhouse, etc) cuts ~20%

They also skipped an interest payment and the 30 day grace period expires on Friday (7/31), so it's likely they're filing for bankruptcy by next Friday or weekend (that's what JCPenney and others have done as it buys them time to negotiate a pre-packaged bankruptcy since the 30 day grace period is a shot across the bow to the creditors). J. Jill is also about to file (the creditors keep extending the forbearance on the default, which currently is through Thursday (7/30)), and there's some others (like Stein Mart) that have pretty much admitted in their financials that they're imminently going to have substantial doubt of being a going concern.

Horseshoe theory fucked around with this message at 23:02 on Jul 25, 2020

Solaris 2.0
May 14, 2008

Sundae posted:

The bankruptcies are fun this month.

https://www.cnn.com/2020/07/25/business/july-bankruptcies-coronavirus/index.html

- Brooks Brothers
- NPC International (restaurant group, owns 1,200 Pizza Hut and 400 Wendy's restaurants, employs ~40,000 people)
- Lucky Jeans (never heard of them)
- Sur La Tabla
- Muji (never heard of them)
- RTW (owns New York & Co, other mall chain brands)
- Heritage (owns Arrow, other mall chain brands)
- Ascena (owns LOFT, Ann Taylor, and other women's clothing chains)


Additional biggish cuts from the article:

- Tailored Brands (K&G, Jos A Banks, Men's Wearhouse, etc) cuts ~20%
- PVH (Lots of mall brands like Calvin Klein, etc) cuts 12%

No Article Available For:

- GAP closing lots of stores after a nearly $1B loss reported in June. All three stores (lmao) on the main street in my town closed down permanently this month.




I'm honestly surprised it's this few in the end-of-month summaries I'm reading. I was expecting an utter bloodbath.

Good god it’s a blood bath and the worst is yet to come.

Feels like there won’t be much of anything non-online that will be left. And that kind of sucks because I’m a weird size and buying clothes online is a nightmare.

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sbaldrick
Jul 19, 2006
Driven by Hate

Sundae posted:

The bankruptcies are fun this month.

https://www.cnn.com/2020/07/25/business/july-bankruptcies-coronavirus/index.html

- Brooks Brothers
- NPC International (restaurant group, owns 1,200 Pizza Hut and 400 Wendy's restaurants, employs ~40,000 people)
- Lucky Jeans (never heard of them)
- Sur La Tabla
- Muji (never heard of them)
- RTW (owns New York & Co, other mall chain brands)
- Heritage (owns Arrow, other mall chain brands)
- Ascena (owns LOFT, Ann Taylor, and other women's clothing chains)


Additional biggish cuts from the article:

- Tailored Brands (K&G, Jos A Banks, Men's Wearhouse, etc) cuts ~20%
- PVH (Lots of mall brands like Calvin Klein, etc) cuts 12%

No Article Available For:

- GAP closing lots of stores after a nearly $1B loss reported in June. All three stores (lmao) on the main street in my town closed down permanently this month.




I'm honestly surprised it's this few in the end-of-month summaries I'm reading. I was expecting an utter bloodbath.

I’m sad about Brooks Brothers for my suits, Ascena is one of those super valuable properties that would be fine if they weren’t owned by a hedge fund.

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