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Corbyn’s picture next to the word “anti-semitism” in the Guardian is the new Princess Diana in the Express. E: another snipe! I’m getting dangerous.
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Jul 26, 2020 03:25
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Comrade Fakename posted:Corbyn’s picture next to the word “anti-semitism” in the Guardian is the new Princess Diana in the Express. Express Exclusive: Psychic Sally talks to the ghost of Lady Di who says that Brexit is good, and Corbyn also had something to do with ARE MADDIE. Pesky Splinter fucked around with this message at 08:20 on Jul 26, 2020 |
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Jul 26, 2020 06:55
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The press will never let Corbyn go, it's hilarious. Without a hint of irony I'm sure it's Starmers ploy to be a milquetoast patsy riding unnoticed below a tide of rampant Corbyn-phobia and to victory in the next election on the platform of not being an actual Tory.
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Jul 26, 2020 08:01
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Flayer posted:The press will never let Corbyn go, it's hilarious. Without a hint of irony I'm sure it's Starmers ploy to be a milquetoast patsy riding unnoticed below a tide of rampant Corbyn-phobia and to victory in the next election on the platform of not being an actual Tory. Definitely. His whole plan is to just wait for the combined economic catastrofuck of Brexit and Covid-19 to break the Tory vote, then win by default. Announcing any policy or doing more than the bare minimum of opposition would get in the way of that. The most depressing thing is it might actually work. But there's nothing about it that speaks to his personal ability as a politician. Labour polls go up purely as a function of Tory polls going down. It loving sucks.
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Jul 26, 2020 09:00
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Nah, Starmer's been getting a pretty easy ride from the media because there's no point to them spaffing good quality smear articles on him this far out from an election, particularly when there's still low-effort mileage to be had in kicking Corbyn. If Starmer's still in charge when the next election cycle kicks off, that's when they'll start attacking him in earnest. I wouldn't be surprised in the least if - among the articles they put out accusing him of being obscenely wealthy and/or a massive communist or both! - they also strongly suggest that he's racist. After all, as DPP, he was basically the pointy end of a massive, institutionally-racist organisation, so it stands to reason that he would have been responsible for tougher verdicts/sentences for people from BAME groups. If the media can get some meaty racism vibes to resonate with the public, that'll go some way to encouraging a decent range of Labour voters not to bother at the ballot box.
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Jul 26, 2020 09:48
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sebzilla posted:Definitely. His whole plan is to just wait for the combined economic catastrofuck of Brexit and Covid-19 to break the Tory vote, then win by default. Announcing any policy or doing more than the bare minimum of opposition would get in the way of that. Posts like these are a little bit... suffering from a loss of perspective? The most depressing thing for me about an equally evil and inept tory government's handling of brexit and covid isn't that it improves some polling numbers for a boring recycled labour leader I don't like.
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Jul 26, 2020 09:48
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kingturnip posted:Nah, Starmer's been getting a pretty easy ride from the media because there's no point to them spaffing good quality smear articles on him this far out from an election, particularly when there's still low-effort mileage to be had in kicking Corbyn. Media on Labour leaders Miliband: "Oh nooo he's the worst communist socialist fascist commie you could imagine! Don't vote for him, we'll be doomed!" Corbyn: "Oh, erm. He's the worst communist socialist fascist commie you could imagine... SQUARED! For reals this time!" Starmer, 2024: [lazily, while scrolling Twitter] "Commie, Venezuela, you know the drill, except you don't because you've forgotten the previous times"
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Jul 26, 2020 09:56
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The lawyer representing Iain mcnichol and the rest https://twitter.com/TheBirmingham6/status/1287093783985872896?s=19
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Jul 26, 2020 10:16
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Ask yourself what reality would make you the most insanely mad and you’ll see the truth is they’ll start writing very serious thinkpieces asking if Starmer really has the socialist credentials needed to form a Labour government
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Jul 26, 2020 10:16
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TACD posted:Ask yourself what reality would make you the most insanely mad and you’ll see the truth is they’ll start writing very serious thinkpieces asking if Starmer really has the socialist credentials needed to form a Labour government You can go one worse. They'll write pieces about how there really needs to be X. Where X is something Labour literally promised under Corbyn and then steadfastly refuse to admit it was ever a thing.
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Jul 26, 2020 10:26
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The press response is of course the true barometer for how well Starmer is doing. At the moment there's barely anything, just dull thinkpieces saying he was a lawyer and pointing out that he's not Boris and he's definitely not Corbyn either. As we get closer to the election years away, if he's a real threat (either with scary lefty policies or doing well in the polls) then he'll get the JC treatment. Instead of antisemitism though, it'll be grooming gangs. Every time he's been photographed in the same room as an Asian, they'll roll out the pictures and articles just asking questions about why so many poor white girls - yes, they could be your daughters, middle-aged centrist dads - were abused while he was in charge. Doesn't matter that it'll all be made up, just like it didn't matter last time. And if he's behaving like a good little second place loser, we'll have lots of dull articles congratulating how sensible he's been, as we usher in Prime Minister Gove or Patel (or some such nonsense). Marmaduke! fucked around with this message at 10:40 on Jul 26, 2020 |
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Jul 26, 2020 10:38
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Pesky Splinter posted:Express Exclusive: Psychic Sally talks to the ghost of Lady Di who says that Brexit is good, and Corbyn also had something to do with ARE MADDIE. Fred Wests? Allotment. Jermany Corbyns? Allotment. Coincidence i think not
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Jul 26, 2020 10:41
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Disnesquick posted:Honest question: How much money would it take to put something together with the lefty goons here? At least to get it off the ground enough to have more than zero chance of gaining steam. To field a single candidate is pretty cheap. There's almost certainly enough in the solidarity fund, for instance, to field several. You need a £500 deposit (returnable if you win 5% of the vote in the constituency) and 10 voters in that consitituency to nominate you. As a set of single independent socialist candidates, you probably lose all your deposits. To do anything actually useful, you need the money and support to actually do campaigning on a national level, which is WAY beyond us. This whole forum probably cost less over its entire lifetime than a single national election campaign. To actually stand a chance of winning you need to have the unions, and at least some level of support among the current establishment, and a powerful media engine of SOME kind behind you. In this day and age, the way a putative new socialist party would do that would be through new media - youtube, twitch, etc, and social media - but you're going to really, really struggle there given how much those platforms tend to throttle progressive content. It's almost like the system is rigged to maintain the status quo even to the point of self-immolation. E: Solidarity would be a great name for a party, though. The Solidarity candidate. thespaceinvader fucked around with this message at 11:03 on Jul 26, 2020 |
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Jul 26, 2020 10:59
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e: nm, turns out libdems did do better at last election percentage-wise, even if they lost a seat
Private Speech fucked around with this message at 11:04 on Jul 26, 2020 |
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Jul 26, 2020 11:00
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I don't see how the collapse of the Labour party right now would be anything but a disaster for everyone that leads to the Lib Dems becoming the de facto "left" in the UK, but I do understand why people would like to get one over on Starmer et al.
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Jul 26, 2020 11:30
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Disnesquick posted:The media, in the traditional sense, has burnt itself to the ground in the eyes of pretty much anybody who might be sympathetic. My general impression is one.of depression, not of conversion. eh like 60-70% of the electorate solidly beleive the media. thats the big issue we gotta deal with imo. gently caress knows how though
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Jul 26, 2020 11:57
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https://twitter.com/schneiderhome/status/1287331367336976384?s=20
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Jul 26, 2020 11:59
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quote:I wouldn't be surprised in the least if - among the articles they put out accusing him of being obscenely wealthy and/or a massive communist or both! - they also strongly suggest that he's racist. After all, as DPP, he was basically the pointy end of a massive, institutionally-racist organisation, so it stands to reason that he would have been responsible for tougher verdicts/sentences for people from BAME groups. it won't be this, that would mean that the government itself is systemically Marmaduke! posted:The press response is of course the true barometer for how well Starmer is doing. At the moment there's barely anything, just dull thinkpieces saying he was a lawyer and pointing out that he's not Boris and he's definitely not Corbyn either. As we get closer to the election years away, if he's a real threat (either with scary lefty policies or doing well in the polls) then he'll get the JC treatment. Instead of antisemitism though, it'll be grooming gangs. Every time he's been photographed in the same room as an Asian, they'll roll out the pictures and articles just asking questions about why so many poor white girls - yes, they could be your daughters, middle-aged centrist dads - were abused while he was in charge. Doesn't matter that it'll all be made up, just like it didn't matter last time. it will be this, yeah. gets the general drift of his corruption and cringing obsequiousness to power right, but gives it a hefty kick of that
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Jul 26, 2020 12:02
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Cool so the cases are politically motivated and should be thrown out of court (if they ever get around to bringing them forward).
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Jul 26, 2020 12:04
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Communist Thoughts posted:eh like 60-70% of the electorate solidly beleive the media. It's a big reason why the right makes so much noise bleating about 'left wing bias' on the BBC or international equivalents. Any legitimate criticism of the media is then just lost in the noise of the right screaming 'fake news' at everything while having an entire industry churning out willfully misleading news at their disposal. And yes I have no idea how to begin addressing that effectively.
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Jul 26, 2020 12:05
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Good, kick him out.
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Jul 26, 2020 12:05
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bustin keaton posted:I don't see how the collapse of the Labour party right now would be anything but a disaster for everyone that leads to the Lib Dems becoming the de facto "left" in the UK, but I do understand why people would like to get one over on Starmer et al. It's the only outcome where a new real left party could successfully emerge imo. It would be vanishingly unlikely though and the powers that be are on red alert for it, rather than thinking its funny like in 2015. The alternative is probably 20 or more years of no left wing option to vote for. That's what I'm settling in for. Up until 2015 there was no option either then we got spoiled by the illusion of a decent future.
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Jul 26, 2020 12:11
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Communist Thoughts posted:eh like 60-70% of the electorate solidly beleive the media.
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Jul 26, 2020 12:16
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kingturnip posted:In a way, Labour getting tanked by the made-up antisemitism stuff is partly Corbyn's fault. Jaeluni Asjil posted:I agree with that, it should have been deflected right at the start instead of the attempted appeasement which was never going to work. For Labour to fight its way out of the antisemitism mire needs a big dose of wishful thinking imo. Essentially every society-focused speech given by Labour frontbenchers 2015-19 explicitly placed Labour as an anti-racist party. As a party in national opposition who can't materially affect anti-racist change until they gain power - your "anti-racist" credentials are going to be an easy pressure point for your adversaries - with the only way you can prove your credentials are your policies and your management of internal organisational racist incidents. The Tories don't suffer from racist internal incidents, nor their more flagrant abuses like Windrush because their voters do not define themselves as anti-racists. Whereas for Labour our coalition of liberal professionals, leftist young-adults, and BAME working class, are extremely motivated by anti-racism, and extremely de-motivated by the pretense that they might be implicit in a racist endevour. I think that even with a god-tier media media management strategy (which we did not have), and a functioning internal process for antisemitic incedents 2015-onwards (which we did not have), Labour still ends up in this mire. Many of the "core" inciting incedents that kept this thing building would have remained the same because of the personalities of the people at the centre of them. Chris Williamson and Ken Livingstone because of their narcassitic tendencies just kept jumping full-force onto the rakes laying around, hitting them harder and harder in the face until the party was suffering major anti-racist reputational damage. Labour Against the Witchhunt was nothing more than a navel-gazing excise for cranks that led to major anti-racist reputational damage from a CLP to national level. Nothing de-motivated new-member corbyn supporters from attending CLP quicker than a 'Witchhunter turning each point of order into something about zionist influence FFS. Then you have the viewpoint of inaction. Had Corbyn stood up and told Mark Wadsworth to stfu when he was turning the launch of the 2016 Chakrabarti report into a new antisemitic flashpoint then things might have turned out differently, but that isn't Corbyn's style of respectful listening. Unfortunately as leader of a self-defined anti-racist party you cannot let things like that happen while you are in the room because it shreds your credibility through incompetence. tl:dr, if you define your party as anti-racist you cannot allow yourself to appear racist through incompetence on an individual or organisational level. twoot fucked around with this message at 12:21 on Jul 26, 2020 |
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Jul 26, 2020 12:18
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Guavanaut posted:60-70% of the electorate solidly believe the media camp that they put themselves in, while believing that all the rest are lies. Yeah, they don't all believe the same stuff. But the media is unanimous on certain things like Corbyn bad. The media is also easily pressured into taking certain lines, such as not reporting on the NHS vote, reporting that everything is fine at the start of coronavirus etc.
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Jul 26, 2020 12:19
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Communist Thoughts posted:eh like 60-70% of the electorate solidly beleive the media. The issue for me is whether or not people say believe the media (and that # has been going down for ages), they obviously do believe the media. Even if they know the news is full of shite, they still internalise the main messages (brown people are bad, muslims are scary, etc). I don't think most of the attacks on Corbyn really worked in that the British public mostly don't give a gently caress about Venezuela or even the IRA really. What these points did do was drown out any positive messaging. He couldn't go on TV and promote a positive vision, because the first, second, and last question were all "are you going to stop being anti-semitic now?". The papers are dying, in fact they're not even reporting circulation figures anymore. They have historically been used to frame the BBCs discourse as its politically advantageous for the BBC to appear impartial by saying "we're just reporting what the papers are saying". We're post-shame now, so maybe the BBC will drop the pretense and just say "today we're going to discuss muslim grooming gangs, the evils of transgender people, and how free speech is under fire from the woke left". Maybe they'll selectively pick up on press releases from think tanks.
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Jul 26, 2020 12:31
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twoot posted:For Labour to fight its way out of the antisemitism mire needs a big dose of wishful thinking imo. I'm a bit divided about this read; on one hand, when Corbyn decided to triangulate on police and Trident, people who one might've thought would never give up on that hill suddenly obediently turned about. Not only  but in many cases actively arguing that these were genius chess moves that would be the one thing they are willing to sell to the conservative heartland working classon the other hand, when Corbyn decided to triangulate on Brexit, many of his Labour insurgency supporters were, let's say, not terribly obedient on the messaging on which side of that divide does I/P land? I don't know, you tell me:  laying down the party line might've required more authority than any left-wing Labour leader could plausibly have; it's not just one or two loonies to corral into keeping quiet ronya fucked around with this message at 12:43 on Jul 26, 2020 |
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Jul 26, 2020 12:41
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Until there's a left wing equivalent to 'popping on the news at tea time' we'll never win over people like my family who, while well meaning and lovely people, are all far older than me and entirely exist in the environment of having the telly on in the background. Hell I was raised to watch the news because my mother was adamant that it was super important to educate oneself about what is going on in the world. Except their only news sources are the BBC and while I was growing up in the 90s my parents always read the telegraph. As a result to this day my pro lgbt sister who is on immunosuppressants and has been utterly hosed over by the tories sees no political hope as "Corbyn was useless and ineffective" and was basically parroting all the BBC's attack lines (she voted for labour at least after a lot of discussion with me, aided by this thread.) Alternative online news sources are brushed off as too much effort after a hard day's work or just angry yelling online which she has no interest on as shes in her mid 40s. My dear mother remains wary of black people to this day and is part of the "but why do they have to come here to South Wales, aren't they cold? " mindset. She devours every political article I give her and is honestly quite astute politically but getting her head out of the shite she read in the telegraph 30 years ago is impossible. Im convinced we need to upend the media before we'll get anywhere with a leftist party. It's on its way out and the closest I've seen is the momentum led news organisation that was linked to here a while ago. Its probably a fools errand but I don't see much other way. Mebh fucked around with this message at 13:23 on Jul 26, 2020 |
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Jul 26, 2020 12:57
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The death of the newspapers cannot come soon enough. Sadly the Sun and the Heil will continue to be poo poo online very successfully 
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Jul 26, 2020 13:07
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everything owns so much all the time
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Jul 26, 2020 13:18
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I think they actually want to shrink the party membership to 4 figures
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Jul 26, 2020 13:27
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I'm torn between 'they just want to FYGM as hard as possible and they don't care about anything else except personal enrichment', 'they just want Corbyn gone and they're conspiring with their collaborators in the party to do it with as little risk as possible', and 'they want to destroy the party, or turn it into a copy of the Tories where the membership is low and basically jsut a source of money which gets consulted maybe twice a decade about leadership, and nothing else'. I honestly couldn't pick one.
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Jul 26, 2020 13:37
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crispix posted:I think they actually want to shrink the party membership to 4 figures
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Jul 26, 2020 13:38
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thespaceinvader posted:The death of the newspapers cannot come soon enough. if they stop printing actual physical newspapers, I wonder what happens to the "let's look at today's front pages" segments that the BBC uses to platform fascist propaganda with some small amount of plausible deniability although I guess they could safely drop them as they don't really need to disguise it anymore
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Jul 26, 2020 13:41
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Did I hear correctly during the newspaper reviews this morning on the telly box that whichever Tory oval office is on holiday in Spain joked about excluding the Spanish islands from quarantine on return because that's where he is? Anyone who has gone abroad for holiday recently is a loving idiot.
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Jul 26, 2020 13:42
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Wow, the Labour right is actually totally cool with torching the whole party to gently caress over the left, huh In a sense, that may be the point. Corbyn's leadership scared the poo poo out of them and made them realise how vulnerable they would be be to a more ruthless left-wing leader. Their class interests now demand that this threat is neutralised via whatever means necessary. The Labour right would take a thousand years of consecutive Tory majorities over even the faintest chance a socialist might get anywhere near Downing Street. E: i'm hoping that if nothing else this whole episode has proved this beyond doubt and has hardened people. We no longer need polite mild mannered jam grandads, we need people willing to get their hands dirty.
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Jul 26, 2020 13:53
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Since I doubt anyone clicked the article here is the main quote https://twitter.com/ta_mills/status/1287352539105636353?s=19
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Jul 26, 2020 14:02
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Jose posted:Since I doubt anyone clicked the article here is the main quote Hell yeah, I'm proven right again.
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Jul 26, 2020 14:04
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ThomasPaine posted:Wow, the Labour right is actually totally cool with torching the whole party to gently caress over the left, huh Corbyn should have gone full Stalin and drowned his opponents in vats of strawberry jam.
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Jul 26, 2020 14:05
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Jose posted:Since I doubt anyone clicked the article here is the main quote Hahahahaha it's the wrecker option. I thought that was probably the most likely, they are literally threatening a political party with lawsuits because it doesn't conform to their views QUITE hard enough. That should get tossed out if it made it to court, but Starmer's alreadys hown he's willing to capitulate instantly rather than risk anything so I don't doubt Corbyn will be out on his ear soon, closely followed by the SCG and most of the rest of the membership. Hellworld, everybody. Tories in a red rosette 2024, outright mask-off fascism 2029. I'd say I wonder if there's mileage in doing the same to the Tories, but lol, like anyone with the kind of oomph needed to meaningfully threaten them with legal action would ever actually do so.
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Jul 26, 2020 14:14
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