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Wark Say posted:gently caress yeah it did. The only way to help your defense was to lower the enemy's attack. Gimme dem "Death or Glory!" moments, even if they're absolute BS. Rakukaja says hi
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Jul 25, 2020 22:11
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Junpei posted:Rakukaja says hi 
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Jul 25, 2020 22:28
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ZenMasterBullshit posted:It's more you saying its necessary which it isn't. And also this whole discussion follows your multiple P4G posts talking about struggling with the game's difficulty while not actually using the tools the game gives you. 1. That was one boss a week and 70 hours of game time ago and in a game that isn't SMTIVA 2. Say you have a demon. He can be fused into three demons you want because who knows what amazing abilities they might learn. So you fuse it away once, re-summon it, fuse it away again, re-summon it again. Maybe you're in a real bind and have no choice but to fuse a demon away prematurely to gain a new demon with a useful ability or immunity beforethe demon you fused away leans everything you want it to learn. So you re-summon it. If a demon has a really good set of abilities I usually try to recall it because I might want to transfer those abilities to a second demon after giving them to the first fusion. Since P4G is on my mind, I want Power and Mind Charge on as many Personas as possible to ensure that any future Persona I fuse has access to them. This makes sense to me. I don't see why the Compendium exists unless it's to be used. If you're having a really hard time - for example, you're playing on the hardest difficulty of a not easy video game - making ample use of the Compendium to try and discover as many abilities as possible seems absolutely vital. But far more important , I'm glad I have an old save for P4G. Didn't realize you needed Max Courage in addition to Max Knowledge to start Naoto's S Link. Well, here's hoping 8/12 is early enough to fix this.... I'm starting at Rank 3. NikkolasKing fucked around with this message at 22:35 on Jul 25, 2020 |
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Jul 25, 2020 22:28
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The Compendium exists so you have easy access to Personas for fusing and for a matching Arcana. And you're always fusing higher and better Personas anyway, outside of the real good endgame things like Trumpeter. Abilities aren't that rare that the good stuff is only found on that one level 40 demon and nowhere else. Besides, yen might be plentiful in Persona games but even I wouldn't compulsively re-summon Personas to fuse and fill out pages constantly unless I was just looking to get the trophy for it, which you can't even do til NG+. ApplesandOranges fucked around with this message at 22:38 on Jul 25, 2020 |
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Jul 25, 2020 22:36
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ApplesandOranges posted:The Compendium exists so you have easy access to Personas for fusing and for a matching Arcana. And you're always fusing higher and better Personas anyway, outside of the real good endgame things like Trumpeter. Abilities aren't that rare that the good stuff is only found on that one level 40 demon and nowhere else. Here's a recent example for me: Dominion learns Null Dark. Even the next level of Justice, Throne, doesn't learn Null Dark. So I make sure to give it to somebody to get it to Throne. But I need it on multiple different Arcana. I want it on my Throne but also my Aeons because they tend to be weak to Dark, at least the Level 40/50- ones. Also Kikuri-Hime is weak to Dark. So I need to ensure I get Null Dark on at least 4 different Personas and I have to shuffle around and figure out which ones will actually fuse into the Personas I want.
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Jul 25, 2020 22:45
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You really, really don't need to min-max your Personas like that especially if you're mid-game. Can you do it? Sure, go nuts. But most people don't obsess over a mid-game Persona like that. And in P4, if MC gets hit by a Dark attack it's game over anyway, so the only thing a weakness does in that scenario means that they're more likely to hit. The game is really not balanced around needing to cover every single one of your Persona's weaknesses. It's not 'necessary' unless you just want to.
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Jul 25, 2020 23:00
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Also you're only going to have one of those personas equipped during the enemy turn, so if you know a dark attack might be coming just switch to something else. That just sounds like a huge waste of time and money.
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Jul 25, 2020 23:02
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NikkolasKing posted:Here's a recent example for me: This is a really absurdly inefficient way to play. It's generally not worthwhile to be wasting skill slots on defensive abilities unless you either know you're going to be needing them shortly or it is a Persona you intend to have default by equipped no matter what you do. You can create strong defensive Personas but usually you want a Persona that already is strong defensively so you're not using much of your skill slots on it. Having a weakness covered isn't very important if it isn't a Persona that is going to be facing that weakness and even then it depends on if you really think that will be a risk. There are times when you want a strong all-around defensive Persona but the key there is "there are times." All recent Persona games reward you a lot more for specialization than in trying to make an all-rounder because a specialized Persona is always going to be more effective and if you want a strong defensive Persona you want to start with a Persona that already has strong defenses. This is why something like Black Frost is so good because it already begins with a lot of advantages. Even beyond that like... you are wasting an absurd amount of money for a basically meaningless boost. Even if you know you're going up against a boss that uses Dark and which you'll need healing for, you only need one Persona for that, not four. ImpAtom fucked around with this message at 23:08 on Jul 25, 2020 |
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Jul 25, 2020 23:06
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I also struggled on War with funds. 4A is hard enough that you're going to have trouble with basically every boss unless you have a mix of powerful, par-level demons to take it on. It's not impossible to get decent demons without using the Compendium heavily, but it's much harder. I had fun with the game, but I found myself frequently farming for money, and I lost steam near the end.
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Jul 25, 2020 23:23
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my GOD surprise attacks are merciless in this game, two jack frosts casting Mabufu and a some devil lady Charming the MC so cant even heal him 
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Jul 25, 2020 23:23
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ImpAtom posted:This is a really absurdly inefficient way to play. So far it seems like only the 4+ fusion Personas have really good defenses and/or no weaknesses at all. At this point defense is becoming less important since S Link abilities allow others to take hits for you or to survive one mortal attack which is mainly useful for random encounters in a new dungeon when I don't know what's coming. Yukiko already had to save me from a Mudoon attack in Naoto's dungeon. But that's he thing - I don't know what's coming. I want my bases covered. I don't wanna wander into a dungeon, go up 4 floors, and then die because I was stupid and din't cover a weakness when I had the opportunity. I had to restart for Naoto from an earlier save but the main Persona I was starting fights with had Invigorate 2 and 3 + Auto-Marakukaja + weaknesses covered if possible. That way I keep up SP and hopefully avoided dying horribly in case an enemy got a first strike and/r to give us some time while finding their weaknesses or vulnerabilities. NikkolasKing fucked around with this message at 23:44 on Jul 25, 2020 |
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Jul 25, 2020 23:39
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Look if it scratches whatever primal urge in your brain, you do you, it’s a single player mostly free form game. Just as long as you don’t expect a lot of sympathy when you’re having trouble with your kinda blind (in)efficient play through with perfect defence level 45 personas.
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Jul 26, 2020 00:07
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No one was asking for 'sympathy." I said the Compendium cost a lot in SMTIV Apocalypse and then Zen was saying poo poo and I said "don't people use the Compendium a lot?" and then this conversation started. And apparently I'm not alone in making decent use of it in Apocalypse. The only reason I know it costs so much and you can just lower difficulty and lower price is because somebody told me this since they had to do it.
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Jul 26, 2020 00:25
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Thank you For the examples of what I meant when I said "Take what they say about difficulty and what is necessary with a grain of salt."Armor-Piercing posted:Also you're only going to have one of those personas equipped during the enemy turn, so if you know a dark attack might be coming just switch to something else. That just sounds like a huge waste of time and money. Yeah you're supposed to use the other 5-11 personas in your arsenal to cover the weaknesses of the one. It's why you can swap them once per turn even if you hit a weakness first. NikkolasKing posted:No one was asking for 'sympathy." I said the Compendium cost a lot in SMTIV Apocalypse and then Zen was saying poo poo and I said "don't people use the Compendium a lot?" and then this conversation started. No you didn't you snidely acted like I said never use it instead of what I actually said of "Using it so much that you say the Paid Money Grinding DLC is necessary is not how the game is intended nor actually necessary." ZenMasterBullshit fucked around with this message at 00:35 on Jul 26, 2020 |
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Jul 26, 2020 00:33
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ZenMasterBullshit posted:Thank you For the examples of what I meant when I said "Take what they say about difficulty and what is necessary with a grain of salt." Alright, I indulged in some hyperbole, then. My apologies. The money DLC is just very convenient and helpful if playing on Apocalypse difficulty because the game is super hard and it helps to be able to experiment to find abilities you might need to defeat the incredibly hard endgame bosses.
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Jul 26, 2020 00:42
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On the one hand, no the DLC's are not at all required and smart fusion/skill use as well as liberal application of buffs and debuffs can get you through every situation. On the other hand ha ha dlc go brrr
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Jul 26, 2020 01:04
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I'm playing smt iv for the first time, and have a dumb question that I can't find from googling. I'm about to get to Tokyo for the first time. I can't beat David in the side quest. If I move the story forward, am I able to come back when I have better stats? This just seems insane when all the incidental grinding I did still has me 6 levels under him. And he can just wipe the party with his 2 turns at any time on top of that. Even after 4 evasion ups in one attempt.
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Jul 26, 2020 01:31
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Hrist posted:I'm playing smt iv for the first time, and have a dumb question that I can't find from googling. You can definitely go back. Pretty sure you can go back at any time but my memory is pretty hazy.
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Jul 26, 2020 01:51
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NikkolasKing posted:The money DLC is just very convenient and helpful if playing on Apocalypse difficulty because the game is super hard and it helps to be able to experiment to find abilities you might need to defeat the incredibly hard endgame bosses. Like, yeah, it's certainly convenient and serves to offset one of the ways Apocalypse difficulty is harder, but I sincerely doubt many people have actually decided to play it on that difficulty blind.
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Jul 26, 2020 02:06
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NikkolasKing posted:You can definitely go back. Pretty sure you can go back at any time but my memory is pretty hazy. That's good to know. Thanks!
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Jul 26, 2020 02:36
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NikkolasKing posted:Insanity is a good way to describe P4. All the teachers are clearly crazy in a way I don't remember them being in P5 and they weren't quite this nuts in P3 either IIRC. The P3 ones could be pretty nuts but I figure that for P5 the Kamoshida arc forced the writers to keep things a bit more grounded. "Haha, look at these wacky adults who completely failed to do anything about actual abuse" wouldn't be great. Also Joker's circumstances mean you need a greater number of stuffy authority figures.
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Jul 26, 2020 02:56
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YaketySass posted:The P3 ones could be pretty nuts but I figure that for P5 the Kamoshida arc forced the writers to keep things a bit more grounded. "Haha, look at these wacky adults who completely failed to do anything about actual abuse" wouldn't be great. Also Joker's circumstances mean you need a greater number of stuffy authority figures. True. Like, Morooka is not as bad as Kamoshida, but he's clearly an awful, awful person. On another forum we were talking about Mitsuo and if he went to Yasogami, it probably wouldn't be good that he killed King Moron but it would be completely understandable. Morooka was verbally and emotionally abusive to the most vulnerable group he could have been awful to short of his own children. I'm still not sure if the game wanted us to think of him s comedic relief or not. If he hadn't been killed, I would say definitely but as is? I dunno. But the rest of the teachers definitely are all just played for laughs so he's very different from Kamoshida there, too. theshim posted:I mean, what seems more obvious to me is that people choosing to play on Apocalypse difficulty are a) going in for the challenge with plenty of game knowledge and therefore b) are not going to be blindly fusing demons away without goals in mind. That does make sense. That's why I chose War for my first run. The surprise is part of why I really like these games and don't care much for NG+ with filled out Compendiums. Having some meticulous, long-term strategy just sounds so boring to me. I like the novelty of combining two demons and not knowing what I'm gonna get or what abilities they might have and having to craft my ideal demon instead of just pulling it out of the Compendium from my last run 2 years ago. I remember for Devil Survivor, Apocalypse and Strange Journey I kept a little Word document keeping track of what demon combinations made what. That's just part of the joy of the games for me, NikkolasKing fucked around with this message at 03:29 on Jul 26, 2020 |
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Jul 26, 2020 03:25
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I still probably learned more from the terrible teachers in Persona than I did during my own years in high school. Why yes, keep feeding me more weird trivia!
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Jul 26, 2020 03:28
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Ok but did any of these teachers turn into a demon that froze their entire shool? We're grading on a curve here.
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Jul 26, 2020 04:25
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NikkolasKing posted:I took Naoto for my last money run her dungeon and her voice-actress is strange. I'm not sure if she's good at emoting or not. She's fine as long as she's Naoto's usual composed, soft-voiced self but her voice warbles a lot in combat and I'm unsure if that's intentional. Like how her voice cracks when she can't kill an enemy. It is kinda cute but it's weird, I don't think she ever sounds like this consistently in regular cutscenes. Then again, my memory of the game is obviously far from perfect. I remember noticing that in my P4 playthrough so long ago. It made complete sense to me, because Naoto's super composed and self-controlled in most situations, because she's in her element. She's not used to fighting, so the facade cracks because she has no idea how to keep it up.
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Jul 26, 2020 04:52
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Cleretic posted:I remember noticing that in my P4 playthrough so long ago. It made complete sense to me, because Naoto's super composed and self-controlled in most situations, because she's in her element. She's not used to fighting, so the facade cracks because she has no idea how to keep it up. Yeah, I was thinking it was something like that if it was intentional. It is just unusual because the rest of the Investigation Team is the same in or out of battle and they sound the same in or out of battle. Naoto stands out with her voice being like that. Of course, it's easy to forget how young and tiny she is and a lot of her rigid intellectual personality is to compensate for that fact. I guess it just slips in combat, which makes sense.
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Jul 26, 2020 05:29
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Disaster has been averted. Thanks to my random decision to make two save files in the September day where you can get Arms Master through fusion, I was able to start over from there and max Courage by the start of October. Maxing Naoto's S Link will happen in this run. Persona 4 Golden is back to being the best game. Seriously, I totally neglected Naoto in my first run and really wanted to give her more of a chance this time around. Her and poor Kanji totally get the worst of it given literally every other IT member auto-starts an S Link with you.
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Jul 26, 2020 09:52
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I'm not gonna criticize anyone for playing on the difficulty they want, but my experiences with SMT4A and P5 have basically sworn me off ever playing an SMT game on anything except Normal ever again. Higher difficulties in SMT just aren't interesting. They just say "gently caress you," jack up all the numbers, and expect you to deal with it. No new challenges, no new wrinkles in battles, just bigger numbers. This is especially a problem in SMT4A because lategame enemies don't give a gently caress about your resistances, so you can't even beat the big numbers by countering the enemies' skillset. You have to have equally big numbers or die. They're certainly not impossible, but they're just not fun. I'll take a fun Normal over a tedious Hard any day.
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Jul 26, 2020 10:30
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I'm nearing the end of Persona 5 Royal on Hard and the only issue I've had at all is the Palace 5 boss. I did kill the Reaper though so I was pretty overleveled for the endgame, I remember one of thr final minibosses just before the final boss giving me hell on my playthrough of Vanilla P5 on Hard
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Jul 26, 2020 10:56
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TheOneAndOnlyT posted:I'm not gonna criticize anyone for playing on the difficulty they want, but my experiences with SMT4A and P5 have basically sworn me off ever playing an SMT game on anything except Normal ever again. Higher difficulties in SMT just aren't interesting. They just say "gently caress you," jack up all the numbers, and expect you to deal with it. No new challenges, no new wrinkles in battles, just bigger numbers. This is especially a problem in SMT4A because lategame enemies don't give a gently caress about your resistances, so you can't even beat the big numbers by countering the enemies' skillset. You have to have equally big numbers or die.  
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Jul 26, 2020 11:25
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 the demon dialogue in this game is the highlight for sure so far 
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Jul 26, 2020 17:58
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frajaq posted:
The Frosts are a treasure and deciding which is the best is tough. I prefer King Frost myself but I understand other opinions. You don't know anything about SJ or SJR, right? I was gonna talk about a great song from SJR but it's spoilers and stuff. SJR added a new character and stuff that I think you first encounter in the third dungeon and you don't learn evrything about until the absolute end of the game. I was spoiled about all this long before I played the game, though. I can use a different song, though. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=jtJIMeyzh48 I posted the Fiend theme earlier as a great piece of intimidating music; the game wants us to be frightened of these monsters. But this song always stuck out to me because it makes Metatron sound heroic. The tmood of this song is that this monster is not evil and fearsome but a brave hero standing against the darkness. And from Metatron's perspective, he is being heroic. He's trying to stop us from obliterating the multivrse. That thought really made me flash back to SJR. Also to how Deku vs. Overhaul had All For One's music playing because, to Overhaul, Izuku is as terrifying and unstoppable as All For One.
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Jul 26, 2020 21:03
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still scratching my head at this demon fusion system, specially with limited Demon Sources and the end result of the possible fusion that you can preview seems really loving random to me. It was cool doing the special fusion of Morax some time after defeating him, he's pretty powerful and useful so far. but overall it makes me really loving tempted to look up some outside source, even though I prefer to keep it a blind run
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Jul 27, 2020 00:35
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frajaq posted:still scratching my head at this demon fusion system, specially with limited Demon Sources and the end result of the possible fusion that you can preview seems really loving random to me. a hot tip is that you should just go ahead and use your demon sources because you're not gonna get twenty hours in and be like "oh drat i shouldn't have used that pixie's d-source back in sector A"
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Jul 27, 2020 00:50
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TurnipFritter posted:a hot tip is that you should just go ahead and use your demon sources because you're not gonna get twenty hours in and be like "oh drat i shouldn't have used that pixie's d-source back in sector A" but I DID feel that way when I used the Jack Frost source on some demon that looked like a good spellcaster (so I could have someone with Mabufu) if I saved that up for Morax I could have covered his weakness to Ice...
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Jul 27, 2020 00:57
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I want to fuse me and Kanji together, using Matrimony Fusion
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Jul 27, 2020 01:00
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Songbearer posted:I want to fuse me and Kanji together, using Matrimony Fusion Same except I hope the fusion result is like Serph + Sera, and not Legion.
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Jul 27, 2020 01:18
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frajaq posted:if I saved that up for Morax I could have covered his weakness to Ice... Keep in mind there's no Press Turn System/One More in this game and enemies can't use Demon Co-Op so covering weaknesses is not as important as in other games. Also, some demons (from the top of my head, at least one of the fiends) have "fake weaknesses", that is, they'll display the "WEAK" text when they receive damage from certain element but you'll notice the damage isn't actually higher. This is so you can still exploit Demon Co-Op when facing them but become irrelevant when they're in your team.
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Jul 27, 2020 09:43
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There's even some demons that are "weak" to something, but take less damage than normal from it. There's not too many of them, but they do exist.frajaq posted:but I DID feel that way when I used the Jack Frost source on some demon that looked like a good spellcaster (so I could have someone with Mabufu) You can only have one of a Source at any given time, but you can regain used Sources. The only difference is that the second (onwards) isn't guaranteed, but it's not that rare.
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Jul 27, 2020 09:55
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One thing I hope that returns in SMT5 from 4(A) is them having the boss ask you questions/talk to you/have your character notice a chance to act during a fight, giving you dialogue/choice options that give you buffs or debuffs or chances to act
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Jul 27, 2020 10:15
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