|
miniscule12 posted:True art does not exist, there are only products that exist to be marketed to consumers. There is no reader, only a consumer. Therefore, works must be compromised to appeal to consumers. ah, a fellow nihilist. will you allow me to introduce you to the last and only true work of art ever produced? [gestures to a large shrine dedicated to lars von trier’s manderlay]
|
#
?
Jul 27, 2020 01:18
|
|
|
|
| # ? May 30, 2024 14:57 |
|
|
Bonaventure posted:this is a neurotic, infantile way of engaging with art and entertainment. I've had some fun being a garbage prophet, but i'll just say that pathology makes some serious, easy money.
|
|
#
?
Jul 27, 2020 01:22
|
|
|
miniscule12 posted:I've had some fun being a garbage prophet, but i'll just say that pathology makes some serious, easy money. i think you might be a little pathological yourself
|
|
#
?
Jul 27, 2020 01:26
|
|
|
im sorry for contributing to this derail but i dont regret it, its been very amusing
|
|
#
?
Jul 27, 2020 01:28
|
|
|
scary ghost dog posted:i think you might be a little pathological yourself I am extremely mentally ill yes thank you.
|
|
#
?
Jul 27, 2020 01:29
|
|
|
miniscule12 posted:I am extremely mentally ill yes thank you. you should watch keep your hands off eizouken! to help you understand how capitalism can be harnessed in the pursuit of true art, or, how true art can be created even under the harsh austerity of capitalism
|
|
#
?
Jul 27, 2020 01:32
|
|
|
scary ghost dog posted:you should watch keep your hands off eizouken! to help you understand how capitalism can be harnessed in the pursuit of true art Japanese capitalism is different because they mostly operate in niche markets that help artists be able to produce what they want to small audience who wants it. I should check that anime out though. Edit: Being a mangaka or animator is absolutely brutal work that often involves 18 hour shifts and body destroying labor. miniscule12 fucked around with this message at 01:38 on Jul 27, 2020 |
|
#
?
Jul 27, 2020 01:34
|
|
|
what the gently caress just happened in this thread
|
|
#
?
Jul 27, 2020 01:40
|
|
|
Neo_Crimson posted:what the gently caress just happened in this thread planet's dyin' cloud
|
|
#
?
Jul 27, 2020 01:41
|
|
|
miniscule12 posted:Japanese capitalism is different because they mostly operate in niche markets that help artists be able to produce what they want to small audience who wants it. I should check that anime out though. its partially “about” how to profit from art that capitalism doesnt consider valuable, so i think youll find it to be a lovely refutation of your assertion that real art cant be produced if theres a profit motive. but thats only a small piece of it — for the most part, its just about the moving art of animation
|
|
#
?
Jul 27, 2020 01:41
|
|
|
Captain Invictus posted:planet's dyin' cloud So uh, how about those LPs? Did any of the guys do a good full run on FF7 remake?
|
|
#
?
Jul 27, 2020 02:24
|
|
|
Baron Snow posted:So uh, how about those LPs? Did any of the guys do a good full run on FF7 remake?
|
|
#
?
Jul 27, 2020 02:30
|
|
|
Captain Invictus posted:pat's playthrough is pretty dang good, woolie played it on his own time I still love people losing it over being upset Pat liked it.
|
|
#
?
Jul 27, 2020 02:42
|
|
|
or people pissed because max liked it or that max loved it or that max has become the evangelizer of ff7r, converting others to the cause
|
|
#
?
Jul 27, 2020 03:05
|
|
|
It took Woolie 20 years, but he finally connected Flood/Ark as a bible metaphor.
|
|
#
?
Jul 27, 2020 03:07
|
|
|
No podcast this week: https://twitter.com/WoolieWoolz/status/1287569255895109634 I hope everything is okay. 
|
|
#
?
Jul 27, 2020 03:09
|
|
|
Bummer. This is the first one they've missed in a while. iirc there was an off week after the breakup and I think they took Christmas off one year?
|
|
#
?
Jul 27, 2020 04:00
|
|
|
Neo_Crimson posted:No podcast this week: I really, really hope everyone is safe.
|
|
#
?
Jul 27, 2020 04:03
|
|
|
Minh has started his offensive on canada and they've been called to the war room.
|
|
#
?
Jul 27, 2020 04:37
|
|
|
Nobody panic, it's just Pat's house falling apart https://twitter.com/PatStaresAt/status/1287597845898559488?s=09
|
|
#
?
Jul 27, 2020 05:00
|
|
|
Dabir posted:Nobody panic, it's just Pat's house falling apart
|
|
#
?
Jul 27, 2020 05:11
|
|
|
Dabir posted:Nobody panic, it's just Pat's house falling apart
|
|
#
?
Jul 27, 2020 06:04
|
|
|
So the thread melted down because nerds are inherently reactionaries but the gist of it is SWERY changed a line or two and LKD, a trans journalist, wrote that she didn't think the changes were sufficient to deal with the issue, wherein he targeted her specifically and said she was trying to control his game and characters. being trans and having liked swery in general, this loving sucks as, apparently, do quite a few of you, though that isn't a surprise
|
|
#
?
Jul 27, 2020 08:06
|
|
|
Rody One Half posted:So the thread melted down because nerds are inherently reactionaries but the gist of it is SWERY changed a line or two and LKD, a trans journalist, wrote that she didn't think the changes were sufficient to deal with the issue, wherein he targeted her specifically and said she was trying to control his game and characters. I mean her argument seems to be "no dead naming ever, even when it makes sense story, context and character wise" which seems... absurd? There are other issues with DP2's script that I agree with the criticisms of (the trans character having a bunch of dumb tropes around corruption, incest and sex and the father having a deathbed attempt at redemption that is thoroughly unearned being the two big ones off the top of my head) but the stance on deadnaming seems profoundly restrictive. Like if a show depicts deadnaming as good or acceptable, then yeah, rip into that poo poo. But that doesn't really seems to be where DP2 is at, especially with the changes. Edit: ZenMasterBullshit refusing to take the L when someone pointed out LKD wasn't the one who lost her poo poo about Red Strings Club is pretty lmao though. A Sometimes Food fucked around with this message at 09:09 on Jul 27, 2020 |
|
#
?
Jul 27, 2020 08:32
|
|
|
I honestly don't feel like justifying why most of us don't want to see deadnames in media to you. I'm so loving tired of it.
|
|
#
?
Jul 27, 2020 08:43
|
|
|
Rody One Half posted:I honestly don't feel like justifying why most of us don't want to see deadnames in media to you. I'm so loving tired of it. Then don't post? The topic had moved on to Pat's plumbing issues. You brought it back up. And "most of us" seems kinda presumptuous.
|
|
#
?
Jul 27, 2020 09:31
|
|
|
ASF shut the gently caress up my friend.
|
|
#
?
Jul 27, 2020 10:00
|
|
|
Like I do think there is space to explore what deadnaming means to a trans person in the narrative of a game but 1) the DP2 poo poo is explicitly not that, 2) if Swery wanted to communicate York has backwards thinking about social issues he could have done so without engaging such a hot button topic and 3) those issues should be explicitly be explored by the people who are most affected by those issues which swery is almost definitely not.
Monathin fucked around with this message at 10:06 on Jul 27, 2020 |
|
#
?
Jul 27, 2020 10:02
|
|
|
Ugh fine, guess it's not my place to really argue on this, I'm just repeating what I've heard from other trans people I know who've played the game and think LKD's full of poo poo on this one. Edit: To clarify full of poo poo on the absolute stance on deadnames. Not the other issues DP2 has with trans rep. A Sometimes Food fucked around with this message at 10:39 on Jul 27, 2020 |
|
#
?
Jul 27, 2020 10:17
|
|
|
Rody One Half posted:I honestly don't feel like justifying why most of us don't want to see deadnames in media to you. I'm so loving tired of it. Do you also get offended every time a character in a movie swears because it feels directed at you? shut the gently caress up
|
|
#
?
Jul 27, 2020 12:45
|
|
|
Rody One Half posted:I honestly don't feel like justifying why most of us don't want to see deadnames in media to you. I'm so loving tired of it. how do you feel about the trans character getting deadnamed in last of us 2?
|
|
#
?
Jul 27, 2020 12:46
|
|
|
Indecisive posted:Do you also get offended every time a character in a movie swears because it feels directed at you? shut the gently caress up gently caress off scary ghost dog posted:how do you feel about the trans character getting deadnamed in last of us 2? Everything about lou2 seems like it sucks
|
|
#
?
Jul 27, 2020 12:50
|
|
|
I think it's exceedingly lame that a lot of trans rep consists of characters having to deal with the other characters misgendering and deadnaming them for the benefit of cis audiences to feel self assured about how good they are. It's the equivalent to the Oscars giving Crash the best picture win because it makes them feel good about not being the racist without examining racism any further than its most blatant form.
|
|
#
?
Jul 27, 2020 13:00
|
|
|
Here's a hot tip about Media: people have different goals and views in life. Not everyone agrees with you. You're gonna run into people you disagree with IRL. Media depicts all sorts of horrible poo poo you don't want to run into IRL, like murder, robberies, rape, etc. We don't ban those things in media just because they are bad things that people shouldn't do. It's important to know that bad things exist + could happen so you can be wary of them in reality when you are out + about in the world. Sometimes people might say A Bad Thing that You Don't Like. Are you prepared to deal with that? Are you going to freak out when it happens? It's better to experience it in media, where adults can separate fiction from reality, and learn from it. Is the depiction of deadnaming in Deadly Premonition 2 portrayed as a Good Thing? Do you even have the context of it or are you just angry that you heard it happened? Have you played the game or even watched the relevant scenes on youtube? Because York is also depicted earlier in the game as being very sympathetic and postive towards trans people. Maybe there's more to it than "OMG York said a Bad Thing, CANCEL SWERY NOW" kneejerk reactionaries who haven't even played the game would know or care about. But it's impossible to take this reaction seriously when the only thing being posted in this thread is "deadnaming bad, swery = bad"
|
|
#
?
Jul 27, 2020 13:26
|
|
|
its definitely annoying when the rare trans representation in media is always in the context of oppression. its funny to imagine a media landscape where you couldnt have a black person in your story without someone being racist towards them
|
|
#
?
Jul 27, 2020 13:35
|
|
|
A Sometimes Food posted:I mean her argument seems to be "no dead naming ever, even when it makes sense story, context and character wise" which seems... absurd? and IMO, to speak to using it other times: using deadnaming as a tool to go "look how much of a dick this character is" can be kinda lazy writing? Indecisive posted:Is the depiction of deadnaming in Deadly Premonition 2 portrayed as a Good Thing? Do you even have the context of it or are you just angry that you heard it happened? Have you played the game or even watched the relevant scenes on youtube? Because York is also depicted earlier in the game as being very sympathetic and postive towards trans people. Maybe there's more to it than "OMG York said a Bad Thing, CANCEL SWERY NOW" kneejerk reactionaries who haven't even played the game would know or care about. But it's impossible to take this reaction seriously when the only thing being posted in this thread is "deadnaming bad, swery = bad" So from what I took away was it's not portrayed as a good thing, but it's just done in a careless way. LKD says it's York that goes on to be the person doing the majority of the deadnaming/misgendering in this "past and present" sort of split view of the trans character. On some level I'm willing to accept that might just be the way York is, but it comes off incredibly bad because viewing a trans person as "previously <deadname>" or "previously <other gender>" is kinda not okay?
|
|
#
?
Jul 27, 2020 13:55
|
|
|
Coming from a place of 1000% ignorance here, but trans representation seems incredibly difficult if the person’s state of affairs pre transition isn’t referred to. From my incredibly limited understanding it seems that you’d just want to just treat the character as their targeted gender as if they’re always been that way. However if that’s the case then you just have a dude/lady/ect and no trans representation. That’s not excusing any lovely behavior or writing of course, but it seems like a tough needle to thread.
Warbird fucked around with this message at 14:40 on Jul 27, 2020 |
|
#
?
Jul 27, 2020 14:38
|
|
|
I'm glad that SWERY and Forums User Indecisive are here to teach trans people that deadnaming can happen
|
|
#
?
Jul 27, 2020 14:38
|
|
|
Rody One Half posted:I'm glad that SWERY and Forums User Indecisive are here to teach trans people that deadnaming can happen I'm not going so say anything about whether the DP2 is fine or not since I'm not trans myself but I don't think framing this as trans people vs. swery/dp2 as if they are an uniform group is very productive. One of my irl friends is trans and he thought the whole thing was mostly fine, even if clumsily handled. edit: Swery's tweets did seem pretty dumb/bad though Andrast fucked around with this message at 15:10 on Jul 27, 2020 |
|
#
?
Jul 27, 2020 14:52
|
|
|
|
| # ? May 30, 2024 14:57 |
|
|
Warbird posted:Coming from a place of 1000% ignorance here, but trans representation seems incredibly difficult if the person’s state of affairs pre transition isn’t referred to. From my incredibly limited understanding it seems that you’d just want to just treat the character as their targeted gender as if they’re always been that way. However if that’s the case then you just have a dude/lady/ect and no trans representation. That’s not excusing any lovely behavior or writing of course, but it seems like a tough needle to thread. You can probably also be explicit kinda safely and refer to them being some different before, it just seems like the important part is to make sure you're not sending the message it's "okay"/normal to view a trans person as "formally <blank>" e: To be clear, the vibe i get is less "Swery is transphobic!" and more "Swery did this poorly, and it's particularly disappointing after his previous game did it well"
|
|
#
?
Jul 27, 2020 14:55
|
|