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Who will you vote for in 2020? This poll is closed. |
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| Biden |
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425 | 18.06% |
| Trump |
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105 | 4.46% |
| whoever the Green Party runs |
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307 | 13.05% |
| GOOGLE RON PAUL |
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151 | 6.42% |
| Bernie Sanders |
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346 | 14.70% |
| Stalin |
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246 | 10.45% |
| Satan |
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300 | 12.75% |
| Nobody |
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202 | 8.58% |
| Jess Scarane |
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110 | 4.67% |
| mystery man Brian Carroll of the American Solidarity Party |
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61 | 2.59% |
| Dick Nixon |
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100 | 4.25% |
| Total: | 2089 votes | ||
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biden's moving with the times, which indicate that all non-corporate power that's increasing are basically middle-class civil society pressure groups, so he's accommodating those. when it comes to the oligarchs, they're stronger than ever and are likely to grow stronger still under a biden presidency, so he's moving to accommodate their interests as well
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Jul 26, 2020 15:02
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Mind_Taker posted:How is it not a problem that young people are polling worse for Biden than they did for Hillary? Hillary was one of the most unpopular candidates in recent memory and Trump is currently incredibly unpopular and Biden still can't get enough support to beat Hillary's numbers. Literally no one is voting for what Joe Biden and Democrats are selling, they are voting for Not Donald Trump. In 2022 and 2024 Democrats are going to get massacred because old people aren't going to come out in the same numbers and young people will have been alienated by a party that doesn't give a poo poo about them. I’ll worry about 2022 and beyond when we get past 2020. In the context of the 2020 election, the polling doesn’t support there being a significant youth vote problem. I feel like there are probably other threads that would be more appropriate for trying to forecast future elections beyond 2020, I’m not going to pretend I have even a slight clue what America will look like after another couple years of COVID. Frabba fucked around with this message at 16:26 on Jul 26, 2020 |
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Jul 26, 2020 15:31
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enraged_camel posted:Correct. "The Left" is a fringe minority in American politics. Bernie's positions were the moderate compromise. Not going all the way there is far from enough. In the richest country on the world poo poo shouldnt be like this for so many people. For me it isn't just Biden. Both parties suck so loving much. I am not getting involved in voting for either of them until they start making strides at not being pro corporate right wing parties.
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Jul 26, 2020 15:31
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Seems one of the big gaps here is that centrist liberals have an inherent trust in procedures and systems, while leftists distrust them, mostly due to having been failed by them at every possible step for their entire lives and watching them fail even harder on a broader scale, especially for women and minorities.
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Jul 26, 2020 15:47
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Ghost Leviathan posted:Seems one of the big gaps here is that centrist liberals have an inherent trust in procedures and systems, while leftists distrust them, mostly due to having been failed by them at every possible step for their entire lives and watching them fail even harder on a broader scale, especially for women and minorities. A lot of people, and I have encountered this with liberals and leftists alike, have a genuine belief that The Good Guys Will Win Eventually and nothing can dissuade them from it no matter what. I guess that's just another way to describe american exceptionalism though.
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Jul 26, 2020 16:19
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empty whippet box posted:A lot of people, and I have encountered this with liberals and leftists alike, have a genuine belief that The Good Guys Will Win Eventually and nothing can dissuade them from it no matter what. I guess that's just another way to describe american exceptionalism though. it's called Whig History, op
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Jul 26, 2020 16:38
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Ghost Leviathan posted:Seems one of the big gaps here is that centrist liberals have an inherent trust in procedures and systems, while leftists distrust them, mostly due to having been failed by them at every possible step for their entire lives and watching them fail even harder on a broader scale, especially for women and minorities. I don't know who originally came up with this metaphor or whether it was even here on the forums, but the Democrats (broadly speaking) are a person clutching a rule book and whining that a dog can't play basketball as a dog is slam dunking the basketball. "If only we get through this one cycle and vote for Biden, everything will be fine". In a sense I get why people feel that way, but it's naive to think that a single election cycle will magic away all of the problems that have taken decades to develop.
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Jul 26, 2020 16:43
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Mind_Taker posted:How is it not a problem that young people are polling worse for Biden than they did for Hillary? Hillary was one of the most unpopular candidates in recent memory and Trump is currently incredibly unpopular and Biden still can't get enough support to beat Hillary's numbers. Literally no one is voting for what Joe Biden and Democrats are selling, they are voting for Not Donald Trump. In 2022 and 2024 Democrats are going to get massacred because old people aren't going to come out in the same numbers and young people will have been alienated by a party that doesn't give a poo poo about them. The idea is that since older people are most voters, a huge upswing in their votes can win the election (and current polling implies that there's a huge swing against Trump in that demographic). There are several ways these polls could be misleading, but they'd have to be pretty extremely wrong to offset Biden's lead. All of this bodes especially poorly for the 2022 midterms if Biden wins, though. The lack of enthusiasm for Biden will stay, while the anti-Trump energy will leave the picture.
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Jul 26, 2020 18:24
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F_Shit_Fitzgerald posted:I don't know who originally came up with this metaphor or whether it was even here on the forums, but the Democrats (broadly speaking) are a person clutching a rule book and whining that a dog can't play basketball as a dog is slam dunking the basketball. "If only we get through this one cycle and vote for Biden, everything will be fine". In a sense I get why people feel that way, but it's naive to think that a single election cycle will magic away all of the problems that have taken decades to develop. That's one of the other big problems. A lot of people don't realize, or want to accept, that Trump is a symptom of the disease, not the disease itself. Getting rid of him is not going to solve any of the problems that allowed someone like him to become president in the first place, and merely voting him out is only going to set the stage for Trump Part 2 - This Time With Someone Competent. You can't just put a bandaid on the wound, you have to wash and disinfect it.
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Jul 26, 2020 18:28
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Ytlaya posted:All of this bodes especially poorly for the 2022 midterms if Biden wins, though. The lack of enthusiasm for Biden will stay, while the anti-Trump energy will leave the picture. Right, this is exactly why I think it's a problem. Old people aren't going to swing to Democrats as much in future elections and not capturing younger voters will make 2022 and 2024 much more difficult to win or mitigate the damage. Every other candidate who ran for the Democratic nomination would be winning in the polls by the same margin or probably more than Biden is currently so let's not pretend he is running some brilliant campaign. A good campaign would also be capturing new voters and a new coalition based on a positive message instead of "have you seen the other guy?". It's depressing as hell to think about the temporary coalition Biden is building: old, white, suburban people, more affluent people. IIRC Hispanics are also actually polling better for Trump now than they did in 2016 which is crazy. Mind_Taker fucked around with this message at 21:48 on Jul 26, 2020 |
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Jul 26, 2020 21:42
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Could Trump use the presidential alert system to tell everyone in America at 9pm ET on 11/3 that he won, so a lot of them just go home? And when the actual ballots are still being counted in major cities, use these federal goons we've seen in Portland to stop the counting, on the basis that they're "stuffing the ballot boxes"? If the resulting count is clearly fraudulent on this basis, could a court/governor stop their state's Trump electors from voting?
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Jul 27, 2020 02:02
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Joe Biden is a credibly accused rapist and you should not vote for him Donald Trump is a credibly accused rapist and you should not vote for him Don't vote for rapists
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Jul 27, 2020 02:47
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World Famous W posted:Joe Biden is a credibly accused rapist and you should not vote for him
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Jul 27, 2020 04:16
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Timeless Appeal posted:While you're right in principle, can you actually explain why it is more important to not vote for a rapist than pass a policy that will literally help deter rapes this time? if you are told "vote for this openly anti-abortion politician to protect abortion rights," what is your response
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Jul 27, 2020 04:20
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Timeless Appeal posted:While you're right in principle, can you actually explain why it is more important to not vote for a rapist than pass a policy that will literally help deter rapes this time? Is the latter something I can physically do?
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Jul 27, 2020 04:43
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Timeless Appeal posted:While you're right in principle, can you actually explain why it is more important to not vote for a rapist than pass a policy that will literally help deter rapes this time? Neat hypothetical, it's also something that is not and never will be related to Joe Biden, much less the party that supports him.
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Jul 27, 2020 04:46
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Something something, fox guarding the henhouse?
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Jul 27, 2020 04:49
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Mind_Taker posted:IIRC Hispanics are also actually polling better for Trump now than they did in 2016 which is crazy. Not really surprising. Biden has literally said that Hispanics aren't a priority for him at all. They literally have a Gestapo putting them in concentration camps and the Democrats are all smiles.
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Jul 27, 2020 05:40
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Depending on how long the alienation biden leaves behind him lasts - which might be some time - it may scupper any chances of 'teh great demographic victory' that dems crow about for a good time; coupled with how biden is alienating the non-boomer vote, if any of those last, its gonna be rather loving pyrrhic if he does win.
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Jul 27, 2020 11:00
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StratGoatCom posted:Depending on how long the alienation biden leaves behind him lasts - which might be some time - it may scupper any chances of 'teh great demographic victory' that dems crow about for a good time; coupled with how biden is alienating the non-boomer vote, if any of those last, its gonna be rather loving pyrrhic if he does win. As long as he gets in the White House, he doesn't give a gently caress. He has never considered non-Boomers to be relevant to him. He's a wannabe Republican.
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Jul 27, 2020 11:12
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I have a question: How much election fuckery do you think Trump is going to impart on this election? I know that suppression and whatnot is a chief republican strategy but we all know that Trump has no qualms about breaking norms/laws to get what he wants. What do you think he will do to win this election? Biden is a republican economically and he is like pseudo woke republican socially. He has conceded that the Hyde amendment was a bad idea recently which is a good thing but the fact it took him until this long is pretty terrible.
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Jul 27, 2020 12:39
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^^^ Whatever he can. He's just barely smart enough to realize that asking his aides "how to rig the election" would be openly illegal so he probably hasn't done that yet and he now knows the military won't follow his orders unless they agree, so all he really has is DHS, no idea what they can do. He probably doesn't know how to rig the election, at least not for himself, the fact that he might be torpedoing his own party by attacking mail in voting, which has actually been historically a boon for Republicans as that's how alot of the old folks vote, would suggest that. Also, and unrelated, literally the split second Trump leaves the white house critical focus on him will evaporate and leave Biden sitting under the biggest heat lamp on the planet. Politics right now is more engrossing than even 2008, and when the star of the show, (a guy who thinks he's Tony Soprano but is actually Little Carmine), leaves the stage, the media's gonna give everyone whiplash trying to fill the void. They'll no doubt follow his post presidency legal battles, but otherwise they'll be left with nothing much because Trump doesn't actually do anything but watch TV for the entire day, even his tweets will seem like "old man yells at cloud". -Blackadder- fucked around with this message at 13:26 on Jul 27, 2020 |
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Jul 27, 2020 13:18
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It's not like he needs to. Voter suppression is SOP for Republicans (and if up against a leftist, Democrats) at every level of the country. While it probably isn't strictly necessary for the cops to tear gas a voting location in a blue leaning area, we're probably going to see it happen.
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Jul 27, 2020 13:25
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Timeless Appeal posted:While you're right in principle, can you actually explain why it is more important to not vote for a rapist than pass a policy that will literally help deter rapes this time? this may be kinda wild so I need you to stay with me we shouldn't reward a rapist with the most powerful position in the world.
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Jul 27, 2020 14:03
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sexpig by night posted:this may be kinda wild so I need you to stay with me Fortunately being president seems like it really sucks. Not explicitly related, but I've always thought that if you look at Joe Biden's life as a whole, it is pretty much what you would expect if somebody made a Faustian bargain/monkey paw wish to be President someday. He's suffered incalculable personal loss, premature male pattern baldness, has spent most of his time of highest national prominence being regarded as something of a joke, is being elected "by default" basically, and if you follow the pattern to its conclusion he may beat William Henry Harrison's dubious "record" for shortest presidency. (Unless the record is Mike Pence's by next January.)
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Jul 27, 2020 14:12
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Ghost Leviathan posted:Not really surprising. Biden has literally said that Hispanics aren't a priority for him at all. Biden is a ghoul but do you have a link to this? I can’t find it anywhere
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Jul 27, 2020 14:54
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sexpig by night posted:this may be kinda wild so I need you to stay with me NOW you tell me!
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Jul 27, 2020 15:46
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tigersklaw posted:Biden is a ghoul but do you have a link to this? I can’t find it anywhere To be 'fair' the 'not a priority' is actually a quote talking about his campaign. https://www.politico.com/news/2020/05/14/joe-biden-latino-outreach-255282 quote:“I do not think that the Biden campaign thinks that Latinos are part of their path to victory,” said Jess Morales Rocketto, the former digital organizing director for Hillary Clinton’s 2016 campaign. “If you don't think Latinos are part of your path to victory, then you do what they're doing.” Now the flipside of this is this is a HRC person saying that because she feels Biden's spastic and unfocused strategy for appealing to Latinx voters is a clear sign that the campaign doesn't prioritize them, and the article does a good job explaining exactly why that is. So, while Biden didn't say it, it's a fairly genuine analysis from someone on his side of things about a major blindspot he seems to not be fixing.
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Jul 27, 2020 16:03
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sexpig by night posted:To be 'fair' the 'not a priority' is actually a quote talking about his campaign. I figured it was this or him fumbling Florida, appreciate it
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Jul 27, 2020 16:10
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Office Pig posted:Neat hypothetical, it's also something that is not and never will be related to Joe Biden, much less the party that supports him. The poster I was responding to acknowledged that he was aware of this last time I brought it up. And it's fine if he still doesn't want to vote for Biden because Biden as a person has done lovely stuff and I agree does not deserve to be President. But we're in the situation we're in right now and our choices are, and a Trump presidency really does mean that college students are more vulnerable to sexual assault. And unless we can mobilize people to get the majority of the country to vote Green, a Biden administration helps that. And I do genuinely want to know why a probable policy that will concretely deter rape is less important than rewarding a lovely a person.
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Jul 27, 2020 16:16
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Mellow Seas posted:Fortunately being president seems like it really sucks. well if being president is so horrible, I guess you should vote for Trump to properly punish him then
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Jul 27, 2020 16:19
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If you ain't willing to draw a line in the sand at rape it becomes clear there is no bottom to what you'll accept in our biyearly "lesser of two evils" elections. I ask you sincerely, how low of a moral failure does someone have to sink to before you won't support them? Is there any as long as the other person's policies are worse?
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Jul 27, 2020 16:45
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World Famous W posted:If you ain't willing to draw a line in the sand at rape it becomes clear there is no bottom to what you'll accept in our biyearly "lesser of two evils" elections. Let's flip this around, are there any policies so self-evidently good that you'd be willing to support a rapist who could make them happen?
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Jul 27, 2020 16:49
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No
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Jul 27, 2020 16:53
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World Famous W posted:If you ain't willing to draw a line in the sand at rape it becomes clear there is no bottom to what you'll accept in our biyearly "lesser of two evils" elections. Excellent point. My personal take (I've probably said this before) is that if you just accept VBNMW, then there's no motivation for the politicians you support to change their position to suit you. In other words, if they know they have your vote, then there's no bottom; they can do whatever they want and you'll come crawling to them. But if you hold them accountable and say, "There are certain things I need to see in your platform before there's any chance that I support you.", then that puts the pressure on them to adopt better positions - and putting forth better candidates - to please you. Because ultimately, they're running to serve you, so the impetus is on them to satisfy what voters want. It's not on voters to "prove" that they're worthy of the establishment's attention. My particular lines are Tara Reade, M4A, the Green New Deal, college debt cancellation, and marijuana legalization.
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Jul 27, 2020 16:55
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VitalSigns posted:well if being president is so horrible, I guess you should vote for Trump to properly punish him then Actually I don’t think voting for president has anything to do with “rewarding” or “punishing” people and I think it’s really loving weird that anybody does.
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Jul 27, 2020 17:05
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cda posted:Let's flip this around, are there any policies so self-evidently good that you'd be willing to support a rapist who could make them happen? probably not, unless we're talking 'I have the infinity stones and can make infinite food for the world, but they only work for me' magic world poo poo
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Jul 27, 2020 17:14
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World Famous W posted:If you ain't willing to draw a line in the sand at rape it becomes clear there is no bottom to what you'll accept in our biyearly "lesser of two evils" elections. I think no matter what action I can reasonably take I'm essentially complicit. Either I vote for Biden and am complicit in voting for a rapist or I don't vote for Biden and I'm complicit in electing a rapist and the continuation of his policies that actively make rape easier to commit. Voting for a third party isn't reasonable for me because: 1) I live in North Carolina now so my vote suddenly matters 2) I think that a Green vote only matters if you can put full force behind it. I think it's overly cynical to say we're eternally damned in a two party system, but just voting for the Greens every four years as a protest vote isn't meaningfully giving them power. For me it feels like a copout and voting is more about cooperation for the greatest achievable good than it about self-expression. That's not to say that you're wrong or don't have the right to think I'm lovely for it.
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Jul 27, 2020 17:18
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Mellow Seas posted:Actually I don’t think voting for president has anything to do with “rewarding” or “punishing” people and I think it’s really loving weird that anybody does. what do you believe the function of politics is there is a reason why Joe Biden is busily promising you that he will punish those insolent fuckers in venezuela and china in a way that Trump never would, after all
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Jul 27, 2020 17:20
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cda posted:Let's flip this around, are there any policies so self-evidently good that you'd be willing to support a rapist who could make them happen? how committed to those good policies is someone critically lacking in empathy who considers, at the very least, other human beings as objects for the satisfaction of his physical or psychological desires even if you could make the case that someone can be personally morally poo poo, yet still somehow ideologically committed to the benevolence and brotherhood of all humankind, Biden's political record shows conclusively that if that kind of leader exists it aint him.
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Jul 27, 2020 17:21
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