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disaster pastor
May 1, 2007


Epicurius posted:

I wanted to get people's thoughts on something. So far I've been posting a chapter a day. While I think that's going ok, I was wondering what people here thought about the pace. Am I going too slow? Too fast? I know these are short chapters, so do people want 2 chapters a day?

As somebody who poked Epicurius about this...

The chapter breaks are pretty artificial. Every book has 20ish chapters so scenes get chopped up to fit that structure. In the first five books, there's generally enough going on that each chapter has relevance, but we're already at the point where, for example, we wouldn't have lost much if chapters 10, 11 and 12 were all discussed at once; there are only three posts between 10 and 11, and then Epicurius doesn't have much to say about 11 because there's not much there to say anything about.

Sometimes it's worth doing a single chapter, maybe because it's got a stopping point or it's breaking for a cliffhanger or because Epicurius feels there's enough substance for discussion, but some of this is just place-setting.

Edited to add: I also brought up that at a chapter a day, we're looking at the 3.5–4 years' range for getting through the series, which may not be everyone's ideal.

disaster pastor fucked around with this message at 15:24 on Jul 27, 2020

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HisMajestyBOB
Oct 21, 2010


College Slice

disaster pastor posted:

As somebody who poked Epicurius about this...

The chapter breaks are pretty artificial. Every book has 20ish chapters so scenes get chopped up to fit that structure. In the first five books, there's generally enough going on that each chapter has relevance, but we're already at the point where, for example, we wouldn't have lost much if chapters 10, 11 and 12 were all discussed at once; there are only three posts between 10 and 11, and then Epicurius doesn't have much to say about 11 because there's not much there to say anything about.

Sometimes it's worth doing a single chapter, maybe because it's got a stopping point or it's breaking for a cliffhanger or because Epicurius feels there's enough substance for discussion, but some of this is just place-setting.

Edited to add: I also brought up that at a chapter a day, we're looking at the 3.5–4 years' range for getting through the series, which may not be everyone's ideal.

Agreed. For example, the last two chapters worked well split up because we got the "war crimes?" discussion from one and now "OMG Jake's a controller!" here. But other chapters don't have a lot on their own.

PetraCore
Jul 20, 2017

👁️🔥👁️👁️👁️BE NOT👄AFRAID👁️👁️👁️🔥👁️

Radio Free Kobold posted:

Yes, they need hosts to make existence worthwhile, but they choose to be conquerers and slavers. I might be okay with having a brain-buddy to do this whole 'life' thing with, but consent is very important.
Yeah, this is where I'm at - also, it's very probable that yeerks would be able to treat otherwise treatment-resistant mental illness in a host, which would definitely be an incentive for people. The problem is yeerk psychology is not inclined to try negotiation first, so there needs to be a whole war before some of them are like, man, this has gotten hosed up.

Avalerion
Oct 19, 2012

There could be a twist like, most yeerks are actually chill and they are being forced into this by the council as unwilling conscripts or something. But even the one Jake got stuck with is already being a jerk so not looking likely at this point.

Kind of funny, if this was a different series at this point I’d expect Jake will convert his yeerk to their side with the power of friendship. :allears:

Avalerion fucked around with this message at 17:18 on Jul 27, 2020

Fritzler
Sep 5, 2007


Interesting that Jake can control himself at the beginning of this infestation. Wonder if that's because Yeerk wasn't ready/expecting to get a host yet, or if it always takes a while. We've seen that the hosts can occasionally rebel (Chapman) but that makes me surprised Visser 3's host never rebels in combat to try to die or anything like that.

disaster pastor posted:

Edited to add: I also brought up that at a chapter a day, we're looking at the 3.5–4 years' range for getting through the series, which may not be everyone's ideal.
This is what I'm more worried about. Am I following this thread for 4 years? I hope so. I wouldn't mind a few more updates however. At the same time, not going to pester OP to update more, as I'm sure this already takes a good amount of time. Also by updating more he may burn out and we never finish anyways.

Cythereal
Nov 8, 2009

I love the potoo,
and the potoo loves you.

Fritzler posted:

Interesting that Jake can control himself at the beginning of this infestation. Wonder if that's because Yeerk wasn't ready/expecting to get a host yet, or if it always takes a while. We've seen that the hosts can occasionally rebel (Chapman) but that makes me surprised Visser 3's host never rebels in combat to try to die or anything like that.

It makes me wonder if you could be a Controller and not even know it, if the Yeerk was unusually subtle. If they could make the host think it's just part of their subconscious or whatever talking, not an independent entity.

nine-gear crow
Aug 10, 2013

Cythereal posted:

It makes me wonder if you could be a Controller and not even know it, if the Yeerk was unusually subtle. If they could make the host think it's just part of their subconscious or whatever talking, not an independent entity.

It’s never brought up in the books so it’s fair game for the no spoiler rule, but in the TV show Visser Three got 99% of the way to breeding a caste of Yeerks who could survive nearly indefinitely without Kandrona. If those existed and you could infest someone with one covertly and with orders to stay in “read only” mode, you could probably have a really good sleeper agent that could come online only in very exact circumstances.

Otherwise the whole “sleeper Yeerk” kind of falls apart because it’ll need to feed every three days and there’s no real way to cover that up. ...Unless there was a way for a Yeerk to directly play with a host’s perception of reality by directly loving with their brain ala The Matrix. If you could shove your host into some kind of fantasy land or quasi-unconsciousness, then you’d have free reign to do whatever I guess.

Epicurius
Apr 10, 2010
College Slice

nine-gear crow posted:

Otherwise the whole “sleeper Yeerk” kind of falls apart because it’ll need to feed every three days and there’s no real way to cover that up. ...Unless there was a way for a Yeerk to directly play with a host’s perception of reality by directly loving with their brain ala The Matrix. If you could shove your host into some kind of fantasy land or quasi-unconsciousness, then you’d have free reign to do whatever I guess.

I'm now picturing a Yeerk crawling into somebody's ear with a tiny little Kandrona bulb and wiring to install it into the host's skull.

disaster pastor
May 1, 2007


Fritzler posted:

Interesting that Jake can control himself at the beginning of this infestation. Wonder if that's because Yeerk wasn't ready/expecting to get a host yet, or if it always takes a while.

I think it's a combination of new host, unexpected host, and Yeerk/host both traumatized by being/falling into a very hot Jacuzzi.

Epicurius
Apr 10, 2010
College Slice
Ok. We're going to try multiple chapters, and see how it goes.

The Capture, Chapter 15

quote:

Very good. You figured it out,> said the silent voice in my head, mocking me.

<NO! NO! NO!>

<Jake, are you all right?> Cassie asked. For a moment I thought she had heard me cry out. But no, she was just concerned.

Tobias landed on a branch overhead. <Is he okay?>

<I can't tell. He's alive. He's breathing. But it's like he's zoned out or something. We may have to take him to a doctor.>

I wanted to tell them both. To scream "They have me! They are inside me!" But I couldn't make my mouth move. It was like there was a roadblock. Like I could form the thoughts, give the order to my lips and tongue to speak, but the order never got there.

<Struggle all you like, human. Fight me!> the Yeerk gloated. <Go ahead. It won't matter, in the end. I am in your head. I am wrapped around your brain like a living blanket.>

<NO!>

<I can read your thoughts. I control your body. I am tapped into your memory. I can read it like a book.>

<Get out of my head! No! No!>

<Oh, I don't think I want to do that, Jake. Why would I abandon such an interesting host? So you are the one who has driven Visser Three half-mad with rage. A kid. The midget.>

<Midget? How do - >

<You're surprised I know what Tom calls you? Ha ha ha. Oh, the irony really is sweet. Don't you get it, clever Jake? Don't you see what's happened, my little Animorph.>

Cassie had become human again. She knelt down beside me and looked down into my eyes.

"He's alert. His eyes are tracking. Jake? Jake, can you talk to me?"

It was a nightmare. That's what it was. Another nightmare. I would wake up soon. I would wake up and laugh and laugh.

<I am Temrash one-one-four,> the Yeerk said proudly. <Formerly Temrash two-five-two, of the Sulp Niar pool. I have been promoted. No doubt you are happy for me.>

<You filthy slug! Get out of my head!>

<Do you know what my last host was? Who it was?> the Yeerk taunted.

<Shut up! Shut up! Stop talking to me! Go away.> It wasn't real. It couldn't be real!

<It was Tom, of course. Your brother. I am the Yeerk who controlled your brother.>

I guess if you have to be taken over by a Yeerk, at least it's good if he's one of the family.

quote:

That cut through my growing hysteria. <What?>

<Ah, I thought that might interest you. Yes, Tom was my host.>

<Then . . . he's . . .>

<Free? Ha ha ha.> The Yeerk laughed in my head. <You're even stupider than your brother. No, your brother's body has been given to a new Yeerk. Someone with a lower rank. I am too important now to be wasted on Tom. I am to take on a new and important project. A very special
host.>

<The governor!>

<Jake,> Tobias tried thought-speaking to me. <lf you can hear me, move your hand.>

<Well, well. Not a complete idiot, are you?> the Yeerk said. <Yes. I was to be given the most important post on this planet. But this is better still. Visser Three is very determined to catch you and your friends. He will be surprised to learn that you are human.>

<I'll never tell you who the - >

<The others? You mean, Cassie, Marco, Rachel? Tobias, who's sitting in the tree over our heads?

And of course the one remaining Andalite, Aximili Esgarrouth Isthill?>

Remaining silent doesn't work so well when your interrogator is sitting on top of your brain reading your thoughts, as you might imagine.

quote:

"We have to get him to a doctor," Cassie told Tobias.

Just then, Marco arrived. He was fully human again. He was dressed in his morph clothes and walking gingerly without shoes. "Doctor? He needs a doctor? What's the matter with him?"

"Nothing is the matter with me," I said, quite suddenly. "I'm fine."

Only I didn't say it. My mouth spoke the words. But I didn't say it.

The Yeerk had spoken through my mouth.

"No way," Cassie said. "We're taking you to a doctor. You didn't answer me for like five minutes. Maybe you have a concussion."

My body sat up. "Sorry I scared you, Cassie. But I'm fine. And where are you going to take me? Back to that hospital? What if some doctor does a blood test and he sees something that shows him I'm an Animorph?"

"Like what?" Marco asked, sounding skeptical.

"How do I know? Maybe some leftover roach DNA. Look, I'm fine, okay?"

<I'm going back up,> Tobias said. <Make sure no one is after us, and see if Rachel and Ax are okay.> He flapped his wings and flew away through the trees.

"As soon as we know Rachel and Ax are safe, we need to break up and go our separate ways," my mouth said.

The Yeerk was considering his next move. I could not "hear" his thoughts. But I could feel him using my brain. He was digging through my memory. Trying to learn quickly about the others.

He was using my brain. Using me.

I had to do something quick. Something to warn Cassie and Marco. Surely they would guess what was happening. They were the two people in the whole world who were closest to me.

Surely they would realize that I was no longer myself.

Wouldn't they?

"I don't think there's all that much the Yeerks can do right now," Marco said to Cassie. "We're deep in the national forest. It would take a while for them to organize a search. They'd need helicopters and lots of human-Controllers. And they don't even know what they're looking for."

He laughed. "After all, they still think we're Andalites."

"Yeah, but it means we're going to have to be very careful with Ax," my mouth said. "We'll need to hide him. I think we may have parboiled quite a few Yeerks in that whirlpool. They're going to be very upset."

It was incredible. It was shocking to listen to. The Yeerk was using my voice. My inflection. He was saying the words I would have said.

Marco and Cassie would never guess. As far as they could see or hear, the Yeerk in my brain was me.

<Yes, little human,> the Yeerk sneered silently. <Your body is my home now. Mine. Body and mind, under my control. Forget resistance. It is futile. No host has ever overpowered a Yeerk. It is impossible.>

I felt a dark wave of terror wash over me. He was telling the truth. I knew he was. No host had ever defeated a Yeerk.

Resistance was futile.

Futile.

Grant and Applegate are Star Trek fans, if you haven't guessed.

quote:

I would never be free. Just like Tom. If this Yeerk moved on, they would give me to another. I was a slave.

Forever.

There was a noise behind me. Footsteps on the pine needles and leaves. At the same time, Tobias came swooping down to land on a nearby branch.

I turned around. Rachel.

"Hey, cousin," I said. "I see you made it okay."

Then, a touch on my shoulder.

I spun suddenly. I hadn't heard anyone else arriving.

Ax! Just behind me. His Andalite face close to mine. His big eyes watching me.

And in that split second, hatred revealed itself. A hatred that had crossed light years of space to play itself out on planet Earth.

<Andalite!> the Yeerk hissed silently. And in that one word I heard the same fury and contempt I heard whenever Ax said the word "Yeerk."

Only I heard it. The Yeerk did not say a thing.

But surprised, unaware, unprepared, he did curl my lip in an instinctive expression of revulsion.

It was a small thing. It lasted only a second. And then the Yeerk was using my mouth to say,

"Hey, Ax. You did great back there when - "

In a movement too fast for me to see, Ax whipped his tail forward. In the blink of an eye, his scythe blade was leveled a quarter-inch from my throat.

<Yeerk!> he said.

The Capture, Chapter 15

quote:

"Ax! What are you doing?" Cassie demanded.

"Are you NUTS?" Marco cried.

"What's your problem, Ax?" my voice asked the Andalite.

But he did not waver. And he did not pull that deadly tail away from my throat. <Prince Jake has been taken. He is a Controller.>

"What?" Rachel snapped. "Back off, Ax. You're crazy."

<His head was in the Yeerk pool long enough for a Yeerk to enter his head,> Ax said. <And just now . . . you all saw his expression when he was surprised to see me. I am not human. I do not know every human expression. So tell me. What was that look?>

"This is crazy." The Yeerk tried a disbelieving laugh. "Marco . . . Cassie . . . would you please
tell this nut that I am okay?"

But I saw doubt in Marco's shrewd eyes. "Yeah, I'm sure you're fine, Jake. But Cassie? Didn't you say Jake seemed zoned out? Like he wouldn't answer for a few minutes, even though he was awake?"

Cassie nodded her head. She, too, was looking suspicious. "Yeah. He seemed normal and all, but he wouldn't answer me." She shrugged. "Sorry, Jake, but you did act funny."

<It takes a while for the Yeerk to take full control of the host brain,> Ax said. <During that time the host will be passive. He may even seem to be in a coma.>

I swear, I could have kissed the Andalite right then. I wanted to yell "Yes! Yes!"

"You guys can't possibly believe this," my mouth said. "I mean, okay, we have to be careful. But it's me. It's me, Jake, all right?"

"Being Jake and all, you'll understand if we take a minute to think this through," Rachel said. "Ax? How are we supposed to know one way or the other?"

Tobias answered for him. <The Yeerk needs to return to the Yeerk pool and absorb Kandrona rays every three days. If we hold him for three days, we'll know.>

Now I felt just the slightest edge of fear from the Yeerk. He was measuring the odds. Trying to decide what to do. But with Ax's tail blade at my throat, the Yeerk kept my body very still.

"We can't hold him for three days," Cassie argued. "His family would go ballistic. They'll call the cops. Chapman will realize he's not in school. The bad guys will put two and two together."

"Look. Hello. Hello-o-o? It's me, Jake. Remember? I am not a Controller."

Marco shook his head. "If he is ... if there's a Yeerk in his head, then he knows all our secrets. If he gets in touch with any other Yeerk, we are all dead. We can't take the chance. Maybe Ax is right. Maybe not. But we can't guess wrong."

<I agree,> Tobias said. <lf he's still Jake, he'll understand. If he's a Controller, well, I guess we'll find out, won't we?>

"Rachel?" Marco asked.

Rachel met my gaze. "Sorry, Jake. But we have to play it safe. You know that."

"Look," I argued. "It's like Cassie said. My folks will go nuts. They'll call the police. They'll go on TV asking if anyone has seen me. They'll be putting up posters all over town. I mean, no offense, Tobias, but I have an actual family, not some messed-up aunts and uncles who didn't want to be taking care of me in the first place. People will notice if I disappear." I turned to Cassie. "Cassie, come on. Explain it to them."

Come on, Cassie, I thought. Come on, be hard for once. Don't feel for me. Don't be sweet, just this once.

"There is a way," Cassie said hesitantly.

"To be sure whether he's a Controller?" Rachel asked.

"No," Cassie said. Her voice grew stronger. "A way to keep his family and the school from knowing he's gone. Ax could do it. Ax could morph into Jake."

Cassie. The amazing Cassie. She had hit on the one possible solution. I wished so badly I could tell her right then what an amazingly smart, incredibly cool person she was.

The Yeerk in my head was not happy.

<What's the matter, Temrash one-one-four of the Sulp Niar pool?> I asked. <Not feeling quite so cocky anymore?>

Ax reached one of his delicate, many-fingered hands toward my face. He pressed his fingers against my forehead.

<I will acquire your DNA now Prince Jake,> he said.

The Yeerk could not stand it anymore. The Andalite's touch made him so furious it was like a physical illness.

"Get your hand off me, Andalite filth!" he screamed aloud in a distorted version of my voice.

See, it's that reflexive hatred that's dooming him. If the Yeerk had been able to control itself better, Jake would be a goner by now, but...

quote:

But Ax's tail was still within an inch of my jugular. And the Yeerk knew very well how deadly fast that tail was. He did not move.
The others all stared, wide-eyed.

"Well," Rachel said. "At least now we're sure."

"No, you're wrong," my voice pleaded. "He's just making me mad. Hey, it's been a stressful morning, all right? Give me a break."

<'Andalite filth'?> Tobias repeated the Yeerk's words. <We're supposed to believe Jake would say that? Jake? Because he was stressed out? Nah. Not in this universe.>

"Jake," Cassie said, looking into my eyes. "I know you're still in there. I know you're probably afraid. But we will get that thing out of your head, Jake. We will."

Okay ," Marco said. "We need a place to keep him."

"We can't use anyone's home," Cassie said, thinking aloud. "We can't use my barn. My dad is in and out of there constantly."

<I know a place,> Tobias said. <It's not far from here. An old shack back in the woods.>

"We can tie him up," Rachel said. "But we'll still have to have at least one of us there all the time, to make sure he doesn't get away."

<I cannot help very much,> Ax said. <l will be pretending to be Jake.>

"Okay," Marco said, "then the rest of us, Cassie, Rachel, and I, will rotate shifts, along with Tobias. Tobias can stay the whole time, except when he has to go hunting."

"Okay, let's go," Rachel said. "Come on, Jake. Get up. We're out of here."

Cassie came over and gave me her hand. She helped pull me to my feet.

It was an odd moment, because I could feel Cassie's touch. And yet I had no power to squeeze her hand, or give her any assurance.

The Yeerk did that for me. He deliberately held her hand an extra few seconds.

<She cares for you,> the Yeerk said. <She is their weak link. Rachel will be strong. So will the hawk and the Andalite. But Marco ... he thinks too much. And he has an interesting history. He is open to persuasion.>

I felt sick. The Yeerk was opening my mind at will. Reading whatever he wanted. I had no secrets from him. None. He already knew everything I knew about my friends. If he got away . . .

My feet began walking. Tobias led the way, appearing and disappearing in the trees above.

Rachel walked ahead of me. Behind me, Marco and Ax. Cassie stayed at my side.

"From all we know, Jake, you can still hear me and understand me," Cassie said. "I know you can't answer. Or if you do answer it won't be you, anyway - "
"But it is me," said the Yeerk. "Who else would it be?"

"The Yeerk," Cassie said calmly.

"You think I'm a Controller just because I yelled at Ax? Like I've never lost my temper before? Come on. It was a bad day. For all of us, but especially for me."

<Not so bad a day,> Ax piped up from behind. <How many Yeerks were in that pool? How many survived those temperatures? Only you, by getting inside Prince Jake. How many of your pool-fellows died today?>

I could feel the Yeerk boiling with rage. It was shocking and bizarre to feel so much emotion. It was something he could not hide from me. I could feel his emotions, even though I could not penetrate his thoughts.

"Ax," the Yeerk said, "I'm never happy when any creature has to be destroyed. But I don't feel any pity for those Yeerks. They are out to enslave us. We did what we had to do."

It was perfect. Exactly what I would have said. Because it was exactly what I felt.

Out of the corner of my eye, I saw Cassie looking at me with a puzzled expression.

<See? Already she has doubts,> the Yeerk said to me. <She is bothered by the Andalite's bloodthirstiness. She liked what I said more.>

Was he right? Would all of my friends stand firm? How could they, when every word I spoke sounded exactly like me?

We marched through the woods for what seemed like a very long time. None of us could move very fast because we were without shoes. Tobias knew these woods well and led us around brambles and rough patches, but still, my feet were tender after an hour of walking on pine
needles and twigs.

But the pain was so far away. ... I was feeling it from a distance. It was like I was shackled.

Chained to a wall. I could not move a hand, or even a finger. I did not blink my own eyes. I did not decide which direction to look, or what sounds to focus on.

The Yeerk's control was absolute.

<Almost there,> Tobias said. <I'm going higher to make sure the area is completely clear.>

<All this walking. Such a waste of effort,> the Yeerk commented to me. <They cannot possibly hold me against my will. Not even for three hours, let alone three days.>

"You heard Tobias, right, Jake?" Cassie asked. "Almost there. It's a good thing. My feet are killing me. I need to walk barefoot more often. Like I did when I was little. Toughen up, for times like these. Getting home will be easier. I can just use my osprey morph and fly home."

"Cassie, listen," the Yeerk said. "I know you guys think you're doing the right thing. But there's no way Ax can pull off being me. My parents will figure it out. Or worse yet, Tom will figure it out. Then we'll all be dead. Don't you see what's happening here?"

"Shut up, Yeerk," Rachel snapped. "I've known Jake all my life. Marco has known him since they were kids. And Cassie has known him for years. Between the three of us, we can teach Ax to pass for Jake."

See, I never really got the impression before this that Jake and Cassie did know each other for years. I had pegged Cassie as Rachel's friend, and that, even though they were cousins, Rachel and Jake weren't really that close.

quote:

"It will never work," the Yeerk said.

Rachel stopped walking. She turned to face me, blocking the way. She was smirking, but she seemed to be looking past me, over my shoulder. "No? You don't think so, Yeerk?"

The Yeerk stopped walking. "Rachel, you don't have to try and impress me with how tough you are. I know you're too smart to really believe any of this. And you know as well as I do, this is not going to work."

"I disagree," a voice behind me said. "Humans believe what they see."

The Yeerk whipped my head around.

There, standing a few feet from me was . , . me.

Totally, absolutely, me.

I think "humans believe what they see" could be a motto of this whole series. One of the things the series is about is how there's a difference between how things appear and what they actually are, but that people don't look beneath the surface.

disaster pastor
May 1, 2007


I choose to ignore the contrived coincidence of Jake being infested by, of all the Yeerks in that pool, the Yeerk who both had previously infested Tom and was earmarked for the governor.

Maybe it's that go-getter attitude that got the Yeerk ahead in life.

Epicurius posted:

Remaining silent doesn't work so well when your interrogator is sitting on top of your brain reading your thoughts, as you might imagine.

It's actually very human that, for all this time the kids have spent telling us that once a Yeerk's in your head, it knows everything you know, Jake's immediate response is "you may have me but I'll never tell you who the others are!"

Epicurius posted:

<It takes a while for the Yeerk to take full control of the host brain,> Ax said. <During that time the host will be passive. He may even seem to be in a coma.>

Well, I wouldn't have made my earlier post about new host/unexpected host/combined trauma if I'd remembered Ax saying this later.

Epicurius posted:

quote:

But surprised, unaware, unprepared, he did curl my lip in an instinctive expression of revulsion.

It was a small thing. It lasted only a second.

quote:

"You guys can't possibly believe this," my mouth said. "I mean, okay, we have to be careful. But it's me. It's me, Jake, all right?"

quote:

The Yeerk could not stand it anymore. The Andalite's touch made him so furious it was like a physical illness.

"Get your hand off me, Andalite filth!" he screamed aloud in a distorted version of my voice.

quote:

It was perfect. Exactly what I would have said. Because it was exactly what I felt.

Out of the corner of my eye, I saw Cassie looking at me with a puzzled expression.

This is a side of Yeerk infestation we haven't seen yet, and it's really interesting. It would be easy to write "a perfect imitation of the host" as, well, a perfect imitation of the host. But there are downsides to total integration. First, your instincts fire and your host's body responds, with as little control as you'd have over your own. Second, there are situations where you just can't do a perfect imitation, because your host would be acting against your own interests.

The Yeerk can say all the right Jake things in one-offs and asides, but it can't let Jake's body overrule the Yeerk's instincts, and because it's trying to protect itself, it can't let Jake agree with the others about the importance of finding a way of being sure he's not infested, even though it, Jake, and the others all know that if it really were Jake, he'd immediately see their point and agree. It just can't stop trying to talk them out of it despite the fact that trying to do so is actively convincing them otherwise.

Epicurius posted:

I think "humans believe what they see" could be a motto of this whole series. One of the things the series is about is how there's a difference between how things appear and what they actually are, but that people don't look beneath the surface.

And it's a fascinating contrast. Which fake Jake is more believable?

Epicurius
Apr 10, 2010
College Slice
Part of the Yeerk's problem, I think, is that it's not psychologically prepared for the infestation. It was swimming around in the jacuzzi, minding its own business thinking about its promotion and looking forward to its new job, and then it had to crawl into an ear to survive. So, now, without any time to be ready, it's surrounded by Jake's best friends and a member of a species it hates more than anything in the galaxy (which is also why it's first comments was ""As soon as we know Rachel and Ax are safe, we need to break up and go our separate ways,".) Even if it weren't planning on going straight to Visser Three with the secret, tt needs time to be alone and understand its new host. So right now, Temrash is bluffing, bluffing for its life.

disaster pastor
May 1, 2007


Epicurius posted:

So right now, Temrash is bluffing, bluffing for its life.

And unfortunately for it, it can't succeed, because that's exactly the wrong thing to be doing. If it had another minute to plot out the Jake way of handling this, it could have been home free. Even after Ax caught on, Temrash could have realized there wasn't an easy way out, and gone along with the situation as "Jake, who understands the importance of being sure," in hopes of finding a way to influence the plan and leave an opening for escape. But "Andalite filth" blew that, and now Temrash isn't trying to figure out what Jake would do in this situation, it's trying to figure out what Jake would do to get out of this situation, and failing, because Jake wouldn't.

Comrade Blyatlov
Aug 4, 2007


should have picked four fingers





Ax has officially made up for his screw-up with the transponder and then some.
loving sneaking up on him to get him to freak out :golfclap:

SirSamVimes
Jul 21, 2008

~* Challenge *~


I like how this doesn't do the usual thing of people taking ages to realise that someone's been taken over to manufacture drama.

Fritzler
Sep 5, 2007


Epicurius posted:

See, I never really got the impression before this that Jake and Cassie did know each other for years. I had pegged Cassie as Rachel's friend, and that, even though they were cousins, Rachel and Jake weren't really that close.
I got the feeling they weren’t all best friends but did know each other. They all seem to know what’s going on with each other. Cassie and Rachiel seemed to know what had happened to Marco and his dad. I figured Tobias is the one they knew least about, but they still seem to know a good amount about him.

Khizan
Jul 30, 2013


Epicurius posted:

See, I never really got the impression before this that Jake and Cassie did know each other for years. I had pegged Cassie as Rachel's friend, and that, even though they were cousins, Rachel and Jake weren't really that close.

Even if they weren't particularly close, there's a decent chance they've been in the same school and classes for years and years by this point. She might not have the details to let him pass with Jake's parents, but she could probably get him through a day of school.

Khizan fucked around with this message at 03:16 on Jul 28, 2020

Tree Bucket
Apr 1, 2016

R.I.P.idura leucophrys

SirSamVimes posted:

I like how this doesn't do the usual thing of people taking ages to realise that someone's been taken over to manufacture drama.

Absolutely. It's a genuine relief to skip what I assumed would be a dozen chapters of "I said hello to dad but it wasn't ME saying hello to dad!!" Instead we get to see Ax and friends being smart and awesome.

Fuschia tude
Dec 26, 2004

THUNDERDOME LOSER 2019

Fritzler posted:

Interesting that Jake can control himself at the beginning of this infestation. Wonder if that's because Yeerk wasn't ready/expecting to get a host yet, or if it always takes a while. We've seen that the hosts can occasionally rebel (Chapman) but that makes me surprised Visser 3's host never rebels in combat to try to die or anything like that.

This is what I'm more worried about. Am I following this thread for 4 years? I hope so. I wouldn't mind a few more updates however. At the same time, not going to pester OP to update more, as I'm sure this already takes a good amount of time. Also by updating more he may burn out and we never finish anyways.

I wouldn't mind getting chapters faster. If Epicurius needs to do something like take longer breaks between books to make up for it I'd be fine with that.

Epicurius
Apr 10, 2010
College Slice

Fuschia tude posted:

I wouldn't mind getting chapters faster. If Epicurius needs to do something like take longer breaks between books to make up for it I'd be fine with that.

Well, we're going to be doing two chapters a day for a while, and we'll see how it goes, ok?

Daikloktos
Jan 1, 2020

by Cyrano4747

SirSamVimes posted:

I like how this doesn't do the usual thing of people taking ages to realise that someone's been taken over to manufacture drama.
Oh it has such more interesting dramas to get to.

I guess a lot of kids media has to milk the surface of these kinds of situations because they won't, can't go as far.

nine-gear crow
Aug 10, 2013

SirSamVimes posted:

I like how this doesn't do the usual thing of people taking ages to realise that someone's been taken over to manufacture drama.

Keep in mind, these books rarely cracked 250 pages, so they didn't have much room to pad things out unnecessarily.

OctaviusBeaver
Apr 30, 2009

Say what now?
Probably would have been smarter for the humans to be Jake in shifts than have Ax do it when he knows almost nothing about humans. Maybe have Ax take nights.

SirSamVimes
Jul 21, 2008

~* Challenge *~


Then the other humans would have to explain their own absences.

nine-gear crow
Aug 10, 2013

OctaviusBeaver posted:

Probably would have been smarter for the humans to be Jake in shifts than have Ax do it when he knows almost nothing about humans. Maybe have Ax take nights.

This, again, was one of the rare legs up the TV show had over the books because by the nature of its medium and not being tied down specifically to one POV, you actually got to see Ax trying to pretend to be Jake and weirding the poo poo out of Jake's family (and Tom's new Yeerk) by being a teenage alien dipshit.

OctaviusBeaver
Apr 30, 2009

Say what now?

SirSamVimes posted:

Then the other humans would have to explain their own absences.

Yeah but only for two hours at a time, Rachel can say she's at the mall, Marco that he's at Jake's, Cassie that she joined a hippy nature commune etc.

Khizan
Jul 30, 2013


OctaviusBeaver posted:

Yeah but only for two hours at a time, Rachel can say she's at the mall, Marco that he's at Jake's, Cassie that she joined a hippy nature commune etc.

Still wouldn't be worth it because of continuity problems. You'd very likely run into issues where Rachel-Jake has a conversation with his mother and then two shifts down the line she starts talking to Marco-Jake about something that she talked about earlier, so Marco's relying on what Rachel told Cassie and then what Cassie told him about it. Easier just to let Ax do it all and have Jake just be anti-social for a few days. He's a teenager, so being uncommunicative and hiding in his room for a few days shouldn't draw too much notice.

Avalerion
Oct 19, 2012

I now wonder what happens if a yeerk starves inside someones brain. :ohdear:

Comrade Blyatlov
Aug 4, 2007


should have picked four fingers





Avalerion posted:

I now wonder what happens if a yeerk starves inside someones brain. :ohdear:

:getin:

Avalerion
Oct 19, 2012

Also the thing about not being able to imitate someone perfectly is really only an issue when the other person knows about yeerks. Even if your friend or family member begins acting weirdly out of character you are not gonna think they've been body snatched unless you already know that's a thing.

Daikloktos
Jan 1, 2020

by Cyrano4747

Avalerion posted:

Also the thing about not being able to imitate someone perfectly is really only an issue when the other person knows about yeerks. Even if your friend or family member begins acting weirdly out of character you are not gonna think they've been body snatched unless you already know that's a thing.
There's out of character and then there's Ax-Jake

nine-gear crow
Aug 10, 2013

Avalerion posted:

I now wonder what happens if a yeerk starves inside someones brain. :ohdear:

Tree Bucket
Apr 1, 2016

R.I.P.idura leucophrys

Daikloktos posted:

There's out of character and then there's Ax-Jake

I fail to see how adding Ax to anything could possibly make it worse

Cythereal
Nov 8, 2009

I love the potoo,
and the potoo loves you.

Daikloktos posted:

There's out of character and then there's Ax-Jake

Jake's a teenager. He is going to do weird poo poo because a thought probably related to trying to impress a girl (or a boy) entered his developing, hormone-addled brain.

Gun Jam
Apr 11, 2015

quote:

<I am Temrash one-one-four,> the Yeerk said proudly. <Formerly Temrash two-five-two, of the Sulp Niar pool. I have been promoted. No doubt you are happy for me.>

Both this part, and a conversation in #2, says that the Yeerk word+number we're given is a rank - lower number is better, the "type" who knows.
This will, IIRC, be retconned later - this would be just their name. The only one that retains as a name=position is Visser.

Aston
Nov 19, 2007

Okay
Okay
Okay
Okay
Okay

nine-gear crow posted:

This, again, was one of the rare legs up the TV show had over the books because by the nature of its medium and not being tied down specifically to one POV, you actually got to see Ax trying to pretend to be Jake and weirding the poo poo out of Jake's family (and Tom's new Yeerk) by being a teenage alien dipshit.


I don't remember much from the TV series, but the Ax-as-Jake dinner scene and the way he eats an artichoke will forever stick in my mind.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=hzriUwNzHjw&t=534s

Grammarchist
Jan 28, 2013

How long would it take a Yeerk to figure out how to morph? Because a prisoner that can turn into a roach and skitter out of its bindings seems like an issue.

PetraCore
Jul 20, 2017

👁️🔥👁️👁️👁️BE NOT👄AFRAID👁️👁️👁️🔥👁️

Cythereal posted:

Jake's a teenager. He is going to do weird poo poo because a thought probably related to trying to impress a girl (or a boy) entered his developing, hormone-addled brain.
It's a really good thing Tom's yeerk is new, though, I imagine.

Avalerion
Oct 19, 2012

Grammarchist posted:

How long would it take a Yeerk to figure out how to morph? Because a prisoner that can turn into a roach and skitter out of its bindings seems like an issue.

Morphing takes a while. But yea they can't loose sight of him for even a couple minutes.

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Epicurius
Apr 10, 2010
College Slice
The Capture, Chapter 17

quote:

He was a perfect copy of me. Like looking in a mirror.

"I morphed a while back," Ax said. "I've been watching the way you walk and move. To copy you better. Ter. Bet. Ter."

The Yeerk grinned. "You may look like me, but that isn't going to be enough. I give it an hour before Tom figures it out."

Marco looked at Rachel and cocked an eyebrow. Rachel looked at Cassie, who sighed and nodded her head.

"See, that was a stupid way to play it, Yeerk," Marco said. "If you really were Jake, you might be frustrated that we wrongly suspected you. But you'd figure the smart thing would be to help Ax play the role. If you were you, so to speak, you'd have to hope Ax pulled it off."

Rachel curled her lip contemptuously. "You just blew final Jeopardy. You're still trying to make us let you go. By now Jake would have realized he had to help us succeed."

People in the thread have mentioned that.

quote:

The Yeerk said nothing. I think he knew he'd made an error. But I still sensed absolute confidence from him. Like a poker player holding an extra ace.

We reached the shack. It was a depressing, half-fallen-down mess with a wood floor and log walls and a roof that only covered half the place.

There was a bird's nest of some type in the rafters. Bushes had grown in through a hole in one wall. There were beer cans and soda cans strewn around, but they all looked pretty old. Nothing recent.

Tobias had chosen well. We would probably be left alone for the three days.

Tobias, with his laser vision, had found a few feet of rope in an old campground. He flew back with it in his talons and Marco and Rachel tied my hands behind my back.

"Sorry, Jake," Marco said. "But that's the way it is. If you're still in there, you understand."

"We'll loosen the rope every couple of hours so the circulation isn't cut off," Rachel said. "I'll be here for the first shift. Cassie and Marco are going back with Ax, to get him prepared to play you." She smiled. "He already has the serious, responsible-sounding thing down. They just need
to give him a sense of humor and stop him from playing with every sound he says."

It sounded fairly good to me. But I was nervous that only two of them would be around to guard me.

Of course, one of those two was Tobias. I could never run fast enough to hide from him. And Rachel could morph into a wolf and run me down.

But it bothered me that the Yeerk in my head had not lost his cockiness.

In fact, he was reveling in a fantasy of promotions and power. <Within a few hours I will be back with my kind. I will personally tell Visser Three all I know. It will be the end of your little band. The end! Visser Three will promote me again. It will be the fastest series of promotions
ever. I'm already in the one-hundreds. I could rise to the nineties. I will be an Under-Visser. In a few of your years, who knows? I could be a Visser!>

But it was more than just talk. I could see the pictures, too. The images his mind conjured up.

They were sketchy, but I saw Visser Three nodding his head as my Yeerk, still in my body, showed him my friends. They were all bound and gagged and lying helpless on the floor of Visser Three's Blade ship.

Why was I seeing this? The Yeerk was able to shield his other thoughts. Was this fantasy too emotional for him to hide from me? Or was he actually showing off for my benefit?

<Do you have these fantasies a lot?> I said, as cruelly as I could.

<You want to laugh at my fantasies? Shall I delve into a few of yours? Let's see what's hidden deep in your brain, human.>

And then, to my horror, I was no longer in the cabin. It was a bright, huge gymnasium. But not exactly a gym. A sports arena. Yes. With thousands and thousands of fans.

I felt like crawling away. I knew this fantasy. It was kind of lame, I guess. But I could not escape. The Yeerk could play my fantasies as easily as sticking a cassette into a VCR.

In my fantasy people were cheering. And there I was. In a pro uniform. I was older. But I still looked pretty much like myself.

The game clock was at five seconds. Four. Three. I set up and took an incredible three-point shot from mid-court.

Swish!

The stadium went crazy! Cheering. Horns sounding. People chanting my name.

And there was Cassie, in the stands. Smiling at me. She was sitting with my parents.

And there was Tom.

He walked out onto the court and threw his arms around me. He patted me on the back.

"Great game," he said. "As usual."

End of fantasy. The images disappeared.

A person's fantasies are a private thing. This has to be a major vioation here. Still, it's very on the nose that Yeerk's cover organization is a group called The Sharing.

quote:

I felt very small suddenly. Very unimportant. Very weak.

<Ah, yes,> the Yeerk said, and laughed. <It shocks you that I can play your thoughts back for you. Your brain is no different to me than one of your primitive human computers. I open any file I like. I play any software. I use you. I own you. I dominate you. You are nothing anymore.
Just an echo. Just a ghost haunting the machine of your own brain!>

<Yeah?> I managed to say. <Well, you're a screw-up who is tied up in a cabin in the woods. In three days, you're dead.>

<I won't be here three days,> he said.

<You'll be here, far from your stinking Yeerk pool. No Kandrona rays. And you'll shrivel and die and crawl out of me.> I had been calm. But then, I lost control. <You'll die! You'll die like the others died! You think you'll win? You'll lose! You'll LOSE! You can't control me! You can't
control me! You can't control me!>

<Oh?> the Yeerk asked with silky menace. <That's just what your brother said. At first. Shall I show you? Shall I play one of Tom's memories for you? I can feel you cringe. I can feel your fear. Yes. Yes, I will. Here, enjoy a preview of your future.>

It was as if a third mind had joined us. It was real. So completely real. Not like a vision or a movie or something. I felt this. I felt it exactly as if I were there.

My brother's mind. His thoughts. His memories, as clear as if I were seeing them myself. Tom . .. some piece of Tom that the Yeerk still carried with him . . .
It was from just a few days earlier.

He was sitting at the breakfast table, across from me. I saw myself through his eyes. I looked . . .distant. Distracted. Preoccupied.

"Hey, midget. What's up?" he asked me.

"Not much. How about you?"

"Oh, I'm going to a meeting."

"The Sharing?" I asked him.

"Yeah. We're doing some cleanup in the park. You know, do our part for the community and all. Then we're having a barbecue afterward. You really should join, you know. We'd get to spend more time together."

It was just as I remembered it. Except that now, I felt Tom's emotions, not mine.

The real Tom. The true Tom who was crushed beneath the Yeerk's control.

He was crying. Sobbing, helplessly, silently.

<Not Jake,> he cried. <Leave Jake alone. Leave my brother alone. I'll . . . look, I'll never trouble you again. I swear it. Just leave Jake alone.>

The Yeerk waited while the full impact of direct contact with Tom's mind sank into my own.

Tom was defeated. Desperate. He spent his time wishing he could die. He had given up any hope of escape. Given up.

In a lot of ways, that's an even greater violation, isn't it? Worse than anything the Yeerk can do to Jake is to show him what it did to Tom...that the brother he idolized has been reduced to a hopeless wreck.

quote:

<That's how it always is,> the Yeerk said. <At first the host fights, or at least tries. But hour after hour and day after day they see that they cannot rule their own bodies. The host sees that no-one even knows what has happened to him. No one knows he is lost in his own head. And, over time,
hope dies. The host becomes a faint, shattered creature. Like your brother.>

The Yeerk was telling the truth. That was what made it so terrible. It was true. I could feel Tom's complete, utter despair.

I could feel that he had accepted defeat.

I knew that all he wished for now was an end.

And I knew, also, that I was no stronger than Tom.

But still, one hope lingered in me. <Three days,> I told the Yeerk. <In three days you will die.>

<Wait and see, human. Just wait and see.>

The Capture-Chapter 18

quote:

I found out very late that first night why the Yeerk was so confident.

Rachel was keeping guard. Tobias was nearby in a tree.

They had brought food - some sandwiches and some juice, which "I" had eaten. Then, as Rachel sat nearby, reading a book by the light of a flashlight, the Yeerk pretended to sleep.

I guess in a way I did actually sleep. I was mentally exhausted. I was weary and depressed. More tired than I have ever been in my life. And yet afraid that if I dreamed, the Yeerk would watch my dreams.

My fear was justified. I did dream. The same dream I'd had before.

I was the tiger. Tom was my prey.

We were in the dark, deep woods, and I was hunting him with all my tiger skill. He was stumbling and noisy and weak. I knew I would take him. At last, too tired to run any further, Tom fell. He waited, helpless, while I gathered the power of my tiger body and prepared to leap . . .

And then, I was no longer the tiger. I was my own prey. I watched through eyes wide with terror as the tiger sprang.

I woke up. My eyes were already open.

<Interesting dream,> the Yeerk said. <Very metaphorical.>

I looked out through the eyes the Yeerk had opened. Rachel was still sitting back against the wall. Her book was open on her lap. But her breathing was heavy and regular. Her eyes were closed.

She had fallen asleep!

Her flashlight was still on. It shone across the rough wood floor. It illuminated my right arm and leg.

My arm ... my leg ... they had changed! My arms were thicker, more powerful, and growing larger still. My hands had swollen and become huge. The fingers were disappearing, replaced by curved claws as sharp as stilettos.

Orange-and-black-striped fur appeared, a rippling wave that grew to cover me.

I was becoming the tiger!

The realization hit me like a jolt of electricity. I was morphing!

The Yeerk was morphing!

How could I have been so stupid? Of course! The Yeerk controlled my hands and feet and voice, he controlled my very mind. Of course he had my morphing power, too!

The others . . . they didn't realize. They didn't understand. They had tied me up, but it was useless. The Yeerk had access to every one of my morphs.

The ropes around my hands were painfully tight as my wrists swelled to become powerful forepaws.

The Yeerk raised the rope and used the tiger's teeth to tear the rope apart.

I wanted to warn Rachel. She was still asleep. I had to warn her. The Yeerk would escape. He might even kill her.

But try as I might, I could not reach my own body any longer. I could not reach my own body.

<I won't kill her,> the Yeerk said. <Like you, she is capable of morphing. I will deliver Visser Three four morph-capable humans, as well as one Andalite scum.>

I now saw the world through tiger's eyes. The night was brighter. And I heard with tiger's ears.

Ears that caught any sound that might be made by a predator.

The tiger sniffed the air. But the breeze was slight, and carried no warnings.

<What a wonderful animal this is, this tiger,> the Yeerk said. <Excellent senses. Fast and silent and deadly.>

So, like his boss, Temrash is a cat lover.

quote:

The forest was dark and quiet, but for the rustling of leaves in the trees above. Absolute silence, as the tiger crept away. No sound as the tiger melted into the shadows. And Rachel still slept.

Soon the shack could no longer be seen. The beam of Rachel's flashlight was swallowed by black night.

But the Yeerk was uncertain now. He did not know where we were. He did not know which way to go.

And then ... a sound. A smell.

Humans!

<What are humans doing here?> He opened my memory. He searched my brain for an explanation. I had none. <Your own thoughts tell me it is wrong. It is very late. Humans, this deep in the forest?>

The Yeerk moved away from the human scent. They might be hunters. They might be park rangers. Those were the possibilities he had pulled from my own brain.

The Yeerk sent the tiger body into a loping run. But after just ten minutes, the tiger tired and he had to slow down. Tigers are not distance runners.

<Which way?> the Yeerk wondered.

And then . . . once again. Human scent. Human sounds.

I looked through the tiger's eyes and saw nothing. The Yeerk once more turned from the human scent.

The Yeerk searched my memory. <South. I must go south. But which way is south? Anything else will send me deeper into the forest.>

<I guess you're lost,> I said. The first thing I had said to the Yeerk in a long time.

<Shut up, slave. Once the sun rises in the morning I will know the way to go.>

<Two hours in a morph,> I reminded him. <lf I'm stuck in tiger morph, then this body will be useless to you. Visser Three will want my body morph-capable.>

<Don't tell me what Visser Three wants,> the Yeerk said.

But the Yeerk knew time was passing. He had to morph back to my normal human shape.

Moments later, I was watching the world through human senses. The night vision was less acute. The ears heard too little. The human nose could scarcely smell a thing.

The Yeerk walked, pushing on as fast as my human body could move with no shoes.

<In a hurry to go nowhere?> I asked.

<I know where I'm going,> the Yeerk snapped. Then he stopped. <Hah! I should have thought of it. Of course! The falcon morph. I will simply fly away.>

I watched like it was a TV program. Like I was far away from my own body. I watched with interest as the body shrank. As wings sprouted. As talons appeared. As -

WHAM!

The half-bird, half-human body went rolling, end over end across the ground.

<What?> the Yeerk demanded. <What hit me?>

He looked around frantically. But falcon eyes are for daytime hunting. They are stunningly good in sunlight. In the dark, they are nothing special.

The Yeerk continued to morph. Falcon feathers grew, the wings became more fully formed.

WHAM!

A shadow within shadows. A sense of something dark that disappeared before the Yeerk could turn the falcon's head. From far away I realized the falcon body had been injured. There was a deep, bloody gash in the right shoulder.

The Yeerk was beginning to be afraid.

WHAM!

A hammer blow! A ripping of flesh and ten don.

The invisible enemy had struck again. The falcon would not be able to take wing. Not now. The falcon was crippled. Disabled by a silent, invisible enemy.

And then I felt hope come alive in me again.

Because even as the Yeerk, crying in pain, demorphed and returned to human form, I saw the enemy.

It landed on a branch. It was outlined against faint moonlight and infrequent stars. The two little tufts on its head inspired its name.

<The great horned owl,> I said to the Yeerk.

<I can read your every thought, you don't need to tell me what it is,> the Yeerk snapped.

<Oh, but I enjoy telling you. It's a great horned owl. It flies without making a sound. Tobias watches them hunt sometimes. Tobias says they can hear a mouse burp from a hundred yards away. He says they can see a bug blink on a coal-black night.> I laughed silently in my corner of my own brain. I laughed at the Yeerk. <As far as that owl is concerned, you might as well have a spotlight on you.>

Then, to my amazement, Cassie's thought- speak was in my head. A voiceless voice that seemed to belong in a different life.

<Sorry I had to hurt you, Jake. But it was necessary. We realized the Yeerk would try morphing. So we were ready. Rachel only pretended to sleep. We wanted this Yeerk of yours to make his escape when we were most ready for him. So you hang in, Jake. The forest is full of your
friends.>

The humans the tiger had smelled. ... My friends.

Then I felt it again. The sensation that filled me with a grim sort of pleasure. I felt the Yeerk's fear.

It was good to know that he was afraid.

It was very good.

So, the Yeerk discovered morphing, only to have to deal with a bunch of other people who know how to morph too and habe been doing it longer,

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