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Who will you vote for in 2020? This poll is closed. |
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| Biden |
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425 | 18.06% |
| Trump |
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105 | 4.46% |
| whoever the Green Party runs |
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307 | 13.05% |
| GOOGLE RON PAUL |
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151 | 6.42% |
| Bernie Sanders |
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346 | 14.70% |
| Stalin |
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246 | 10.45% |
| Satan |
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300 | 12.75% |
| Nobody |
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202 | 8.58% |
| Jess Scarane |
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110 | 4.67% |
| mystery man Brian Carroll of the American Solidarity Party |
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61 | 2.59% |
| Dick Nixon |
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100 | 4.25% |
| Total: | 2089 votes | ||
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Shere posted:Materially, my vote can either go to a credibly accused rapist who doesn't care about me or the entire economic class that I belong to, or it can go to getting a third voice that I don't find completely repulsive in the fight for next time. That's all the calculus I have to do to vote for Green. Whether or not it feels "disingenuous" is something you have to find the source of - all I ever hear from anyone is the old Simpson's meme "Go ahead! Throw away your votes!" which I shouldn't have to point out is meant to be a joke.
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Jul 28, 2020 15:24
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Timeless Appeal posted:I'm not saying they're not a real party or you're throwing your vote away. I'm saying that people who vote for the Green Party or champion the political significance of them getting 5% should do more than just hate-vote for them every four years because a vote in itself is just not that significant a political action. If we get out of 2020 with a Green party lead by the Howie wing of ecosocialists I vow or toxx or whatever to help whatever state or local level Green candidates I can through volunteering. Hell, if we're still having elections in a few years and I'm able, I'll run locally as a Green.
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Jul 28, 2020 15:32
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Timeless Appeal posted:I'm not saying they're not a real party or you're throwing your vote away. I'm saying that people who vote for the Green Party or champion the political significance of them getting 5% should do more than just hate-vote for them every four years because a vote in itself is just not that significant a political action. I'm glad you think you get to set the goalposts for what counts as political activism for me (or ascribe "hate" to my vote), but relative to the nihilism of voting for someone I know doesn't represent me, I feel like I'm doing my part at least.
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Jul 28, 2020 15:33
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Mellow Seas posted:Anybody who was already an "enthusiastic Biden voter" is not going to be turned off by this poo poo; it's all perfectly on-brand for him. It just irritates people who are already supporting him reluctantly. Maybe they'll come back around to him; the platform bullshit swung them from Antone to Omar which was a huge surprise to me. They seem legitimately shell-shocked and angry about being misled regarding what Biden meant for policy. The leftists I know are supporting the Greens after they've been pandering for social welfare. They're willing to vote in person for them if they have to. A lot of them are essential, non-managerial or not a computer toucher so they've been forced to assume a lot of pandemic risk regardless. They're worried about becoming homeless or getting shot by police. The party platform's made the ID pol libs I know claim they'll stay home if they don't get their mail in ballots. They believe voting in person is too risky in a pandemic. Most of them are still employed and work from home or independently wealthy and they're complaining about having to cancel their overseas vacations and the inconveniences of not being able to freely shop and eat at restaurants. The handful of conservative family members and acquaintances of mine are still drinking the Fox News flavoraid and mega pumped to pull the lever for Trump in private. If you ask them in public or in a poll they'll say they support the Lincoln project and that the orange man is bad. They're worried about antifa burning down their homes or being shamed by their neighbors if they were to commit the capital crime of putting a Trump sign in their yard. Hopefully my experience is atypical or Trump's going to cruise into a second term.
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Jul 28, 2020 15:35
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Mail in votes aren't going to get counted. People need to understand this. If they do get counted it will be nearly a week after the election before we get an accurate tally, and at that point we will be in a full on civil war.
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Jul 28, 2020 16:01
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Probably Magic posted:Not even them. Jim and Tammy Faye Bakker are hocking hemp on their show at this point. Well no wonder big pharma is trying to suppress weed, it raises the dead!
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Jul 28, 2020 16:03
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Feldegast42 posted:Mail in votes aren't going to get counted. People need to understand this. I think this is a rather alarmist view of things. Have you listened to the podcast "It could happen here"? That legit scared the hell out of me but we have one thing working in our favor. Most people are comfortable. Unfortunately if the democrats flop this relief bill you may see a lot more protests but I don't think it will be enough to split the country like that. I do think we never stopped fighting the civil war in a cold civil war type situation but it is the white supremecists "all lives matter" type people v. non racists. Yeah there is a lot of talk about going out and shooting liberals and whatnot but its all bluster. The big problem I see is that the propaganda right wingers are being fed is just so dangerous and its main goal is to get them to keep voting in favor of the wealthy people. There is no class solidarity at all. I say all this because there are two main things that can fix our hosed up elections and make it so it isn't pro corporate wealthy elite mouthpiece A v pro corporate wealthy elite mouthpiece B. One of those things is a renaissance in our media in which laws get passed to break up the big media conglomerations that are pumping out the elites message 24/7 and two this country developing some class solidarity. If all the poor people got together we could win, we could stop them from running people like Biden and Clinton and Gore and Kerry and maybe have someone decent but this goes back to the first thing. Media. I really don't know though. Anyone else have any ideas?
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Jul 28, 2020 16:19
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Most Biden voters, all polls indicate, genuinely belived he was going to do all the important things Bernie was that the kids are yelling about, just not be so loud and lefty about it. That he's made it clear in no uncertain terms that he'll fight tooth and nail against them is a genuine shock. And the Democrat establishment line that voter suppression doesn't exist is sure as hell going to pay off for them!
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Jul 28, 2020 16:19
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Feldegast42 posted:Mail in votes aren't going to get counted. People need to understand this. They're going to get counted. There just probably won't be enough of them to change the results of most elections, so most of the results will be announced before the vote count finishes.
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Jul 28, 2020 16:23
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Ghost Leviathan posted:Most Biden voters, all polls indicate, genuinely belived he was going to do all the important things Bernie was that the kids are yelling about, just not be so loud and lefty about it. That he's made it clear in no uncertain terms that he'll fight tooth and nail against them is a genuine shock. I like to think that the Democrats really hosed up with this platform, but my suspicion is that the desire to "get Trump out" will override any concerns over the party's nothing of a platform. They probably know this, which is why they're not offering much more than "normalcy" and decorum.
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Jul 28, 2020 16:25
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F_Shit_Fitzgerald posted:I like to think that the Democrats really hosed up with this platform, but my suspicion is that the desire to "get Trump out" will override any concerns over the party's nothing of a platform. They probably know this, which is why they're not offering much more than "normalcy" and decorum. Yeah I think this too. "Orange man bad" sentiments will overide any desire for meaningful change. What just happened with the DNC platform is just another reason I am not getting involved in this poo poo anymore. I'm a moderate and they can't even satisfy my desires. We basically have two republican parties.
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Jul 28, 2020 16:29
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Feldegast42 posted:Mail in votes aren't going to get counted. People need to understand this. I think you have them confused with provisional ballots. Those often do not get counted unless the election ends close enough for them to matter. Most mail in votes are in by election day and are sitting in a pile next to the election day ballots, and they all get counted at the same time. There are some mail in ballots postmarked before the election that trickle in after, but not many, and they do get counted. edit: to explain provisional ballots to save a few dozen people from hitting google, if you show up to your precinct and they say you are not on the list (or more rarely, there's some local election law reason why you can't vote), often to make you happy and not cause a scene, they will hand you a provisional ballot and some kind of paper or pamphlet telling you that you have X days to go to some local official's office with proof that you should have been allowed to vote. Most people don't bother, and their provisional ballot is trashed. For the very very few people who actually should have been able to vote and do go through the hassle of proving it, then if there's any election on their ballot that ended in an extremely close result, they'll count their ballot. Otherwise if it didn't matter to any race, it gets trashed. Rigel fucked around with this message at 16:50 on Jul 28, 2020 |
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Jul 28, 2020 16:44
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ManBoyChef posted:Yeah there is a lot of talk about going out and shooting liberals and whatnot but its all bluster. It's already happening though?
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Jul 28, 2020 16:47
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ManBoyChef posted:I think this is a rather alarmist view of things. Have you listened to the podcast "It could happen here"? That legit scared the hell out of me but we have one thing working in our favor. Most people are comfortable. Unfortunately if the democrats flop this relief bill you may see a lot more protests but I don't think it will be enough to split the country like that. I do think we never stopped fighting the civil war in a cold civil war type situation but it is the white supremecists "all lives matter" type people v. non racists. Yeah there is a lot of talk about going out and shooting liberals and whatnot but its all bluster. The big problem I see is that the propaganda right wingers are being fed is just so dangerous and its main goal is to get them to keep voting in favor of the wealthy people. There is no class solidarity at all. So you are just ignoring all the riots and protests from the last 3 months, 50%ish unemployment, and the feds disappearing people.
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Jul 28, 2020 16:49
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ManBoyChef posted:This. I would love to see this. The fact there is no other options other than two right wing parties is bullshit. The Green Party USA seems to run candidates in a lot of state-level and city races, though obviously this is limited by things like finances and (I'm guessing) lack of willing candidates in a lot of places; according to Wikipedia, Green-affiliated pols held 143 offices in October 2016. That's not a massive amount, but it's enough to dispel the "the Greens only run in Presidential races" canard. Falstaff fucked around with this message at 16:56 on Jul 28, 2020 |
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Jul 28, 2020 16:52
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I think that the more excessive the victory margin for Biden in 2020, the more skewed toward later dates the probability distribution of "when will the democratic platform be in favor of m4a/pot legalization and against colonialism in the west back" will be.
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Jul 28, 2020 17:15
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For reference, the Green Party does keep a pretty straight forward database of their races past and present. They maintain a separate database of victories. Like you said, it's a lot of local stuff, and most of their actual victories are extremely local (Lots of school boards).
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Jul 28, 2020 17:15
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Don't see the Dems wiggling out of this one.
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Jul 28, 2020 17:17
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Timeless Appeal posted:For reference, the Green Party does keep a pretty straight forward database of their races past and present. A lot of them are also likely going to be nonpartisan elections where you have a list of names on the ballot without parties and are asked to pick one (or two, or three). In a nonpartisan election, you might be a member of the Green party, but the voters don't know unless they research you. Of the partisan races, I bet many of those victories were unopposed. or where there may have been a republican but no democrat. I wonder how many times they have ever won an election that lists party and where there was a credible Dem and GOP opponent all running for one seat. I'm sure its happened, but that is going to be very rare. Rigel fucked around with this message at 17:25 on Jul 28, 2020 |
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Jul 28, 2020 17:22
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Rigel posted:A lot of them are also likely going to be nonpartisan elections where you have a list of names on the ballot without parties and are asked to pick one (or two, or three). In a nonpartisan election, you might be a member of the Green party, but the voters don't know unless they research you. Got a cite for any of this, or are you just going off of intestinal cognition?
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Jul 28, 2020 17:29
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I thought the Democrats couldn't do good things because they're trying to court the right. Why then are they trying to ban selling guns online. Gun laws aren't popular with the right, surely the argument against legalising marijuana applies here
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Jul 28, 2020 17:31
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Falstaff posted:Got a cite for any of this, or are you just going off of intestinal cognition? I looked at that green party database after my post back to about 2017, and it pretty much confirmed what I said. Roughly 80% of their "wins" were nonpartisan. The vast majority of the rest were things like there were 7 people running for 7 spots, all 7 of them "won", and the green came in 7th place. They count that as a partisan win. I saw one election where someone came in 1st against 2 opponents for one spot as a village trustee and thought that might be the mythical real partisan green victory, but when I looked into it, she had the only name on the ballot, and her two opponents were trying to put together a write in campaign. Rigel fucked around with this message at 17:35 on Jul 28, 2020 |
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Jul 28, 2020 17:32
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Rigel posted:I looked at that green party database after my post back to about 2017, and it pretty much confirmed what I said. Roughly 80% of their "wins" were nonpartisan. The vast majority of the rest were things like there were 7 people running for 7 spots, all 7 of them "won", and the green came in 7th place. They count that as a partisan win. Wow I didn't expect it to be as bad as that. That's hilarious.
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Jul 28, 2020 17:36
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How are u posted:Wow I didn't expect it to be as bad as that. That's hilarious. speaking of hilarity, any thoughts on the dems telling you that they are unequivocally against M4A and marijuana legalization, no matter what those idiot peasants who vote for them might say
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Jul 28, 2020 17:38
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Me, smugly voting for the guy with the platform of explicitly no M4A, open support of ethnic cleansing, and not even being able to be for loving weed in 2020: stupid greenies don't know how to politics.
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Jul 28, 2020 17:44
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How are u posted:Wow I didn't expect it to be as bad as that. That's hilarious. Funny how the claim moved from "Greens never run for local spots" to "Okay, turns out they do" so now the spots they get/run for aren't good enough because they can't magically conjure funding and support to topple the two party system this country has had for two centuries in the face of a self-interested machine that mocks voting for third parties as "pointless". Stunning that anyone continues to argue in earnest in this thread.
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Jul 28, 2020 17:44
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I can't be clear enough, if you're still team 'vote blue no matter who' after that platform reveal you're actively more harmful for every group you claim to be protecting than you'd be by just not voting at all.
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Jul 28, 2020 17:45
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Staying in Afghanistan is also a part of the platform
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Jul 28, 2020 17:46
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my favorite remains the dismissal of all the carnage of the drug war with "lol, weed smokers" the democratic party dare not suggest it views black people being chucked in jail on grounds a cop feels like it as a bad thing. otherwise, they might lose the Blue Lives Matter vote. now, to take a long sip of coffee and pick up my local paper
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Jul 28, 2020 17:48
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sexpig by night posted:I can't be clear enough, if you're still team 'vote blue no matter who' after that platform reveal you're actively more harmful for every group you claim to be protecting than you'd be by just not voting at all. Fully agreed. The Democrats aren't even bothering to hide it anymore and are giving a huge double middle finger to anyone left of center-right.
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Jul 28, 2020 17:48
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Lol at putting win in quotes. As everyone knows the victory doesn't count unless it was a fiercely contested House seat and the race involved enriching a small army of consultants. You can hear the disdain for third parties dripping out of those posts. It's visceral. As if it's somehow the fault if third parties that they're practically banned from running in large swaths of the country.
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Jul 28, 2020 17:49
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*lukewarm ocean water closing over my head* "lol the Green party couldn't even stop this, pathetic lmao, get owned enviro-LOSER-ists glub glub glub"
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Jul 28, 2020 17:50
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Rigel posted:I looked at that green party database after my post back to about 2017, and it pretty much confirmed what I said. Roughly 80% of their "wins" were nonpartisan. The vast majority of the rest were things like there were 7 people running for 7 spots, all 7 of them "won", and the green came in 7th place. They count that as a partisan win. Yeah, you got me there. Looks like most of the competitive races the Greens have won get an asterisk (lots of Greens turning Dem after their victory). Their biggest, unasterisk'd win seems to be Gayle McLaughlin, who won two terms as mayor of Richmond, California as a Green.
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Jul 28, 2020 17:50
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At this point everyone who votes for Biden (or Trump, for that matter) in november is actively complicit in the tens if not hundreds of thousands of deaths which follow. There's no more room for being unaware of exactly what these corporate fucks stand for.
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Jul 28, 2020 17:52
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The Shortest Path posted:At this point everyone who votes for Biden (or Trump, for that matter) in november is actively complicit in the tens if not hundreds of thousands of deaths which follow. There's no more room for being unaware of exactly what these corporate fucks stand for. seriously they couldn't even lie and give some token platform concessions to bernie's crowd, there's no excuse to vote for biden other than 'I like it when my fascism isn't vulgar, thank you very much'.
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Jul 28, 2020 17:56
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How are u posted:Wow I didn't expect it to be as bad as that. That's hilarious. Hi How are u, I know you're currently probed for continuing to ignore questions and rebuttals, but on the chance you'll come back and respond in good faith, I'd like an answer to my question. I'll rephrase it here to save you the search: In this thread (and past iterations of it) you've told us that you're a socialist, you're concerned about the environment, and you'd convinced that Joe Biden will win the 2020 presidential race in a landslide. By my accounting this makes you something of an ecosocialist who is aware that his vote isn't particularly valuable to the democratic party, at least in this particular election. You also seem to be dismissive of the paltry Green wins. Heck, I agree! If I've got that right (please correct me if I'm wrong), could you elaborate on why you won't vote for Howie Hawkins? This, to me, seems like a slam dunk for someone like you: Biden will win comfortably without your volunteering or voting, the ecosocialist wing of the Green party, though, very much can use your vote to establish their power within the party, and this plus a strong 2020 showing will spur enthusiasm in state and local races. It very much seems like if you are a socialist and you really do want to see a strong socialist party in the US, and you do want to push the Democrats leftwards, that this would be the optimal voting strategy. Have I got something wrong?
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Jul 28, 2020 18:14
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Shere posted:Funny how the claim moved from "Greens never run for local spots" to "Okay, turns out they do" so now the spots they get/run for aren't good enough because they can't magically conjure funding and support to topple the two party system this country has had for two centuries in the face of a self-interested machine that mocks voting for third parties as "pointless". Stunning that anyone continues to argue in earnest in this thread. EDIT: My bad, How Are U was kinda dunking on the database.
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Jul 28, 2020 18:16
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Timeless Appeal posted:Is anyone arguing against voting third party on this page? I would say the only realistic goal for a group of people to vote third party (ignoring rich guy vanity one-offs like Perot) is to send an "I am really angry with you!" message to one of the two major parties. That message will likely be drowned out this year in the mad rush to vote against Trump.
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Jul 28, 2020 18:23
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I uh, maybe I'm voting for a third party because I believe they represent my interests better than the two major parties
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Jul 28, 2020 18:27
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| # ? Jun 10, 2024 22:57 |
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The realistic goal is to push a Third Party to the 5% they need to be recognized as a "real" party and force the Red and Blue teams to have to give them a seat at the table (or more likely move the goalposts) People keep talking about how us loony leftists need to settle for incremental baby steps towards progress, well getting the Greens to 5% is one of those steps.
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Jul 28, 2020 18:29
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