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wologar posted:The only time I played SMT4 I got to the point where you can destroy that weird monstrance thing and get an ending where everything ceases to exist. In spite of the game evidently trying to make it look like that was a terrible idea and a "bad ending" I thought it was actually the perfect way to put the game down permanently and play something better. The only time I played SMTIV I stumbled on neutral route and was thrilled. That route felt very fulfilling to me.
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Jul 28, 2020 22:25
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So, SMT Alignment Chat.... The SMTV trailer seems to indicate Chaos will be the star of the game. It occurs to me that Law pretty much always initiates the conflicts in these games. Everything going to poo poo is the fault of YHWH directly or the Forces of Law and Chaos is just sort of reacting to their totalitarian ambitions. SJ would seem to be the exception but maybe SMTV will change that. The games really do have an anti-Law bias I'd say. I don't think it's that deniable given how Lucy is usually portrayed as at least more noble than YHVH. Of course, I hear there is even an anti-YHVH Law route in SMT2 so I dunno. I've never really understood why the survival of the fittest ideology is so resistant to YHVH. He is in fact stronger than everyone else, why fight him? By their own logic, they should follow him, not Lucifer or Mem Aleph. Of course, I have always suspected it's less about survival of the fittest and more a commitment to a rigid ideology of survival of the fittest, an ideology as rigid and inflexible as Law's. It's not like Chaos says "congrats, you are now the most powerful being in the universe. If your new edict is to give everyone free cookies and protect weak children, go for it. As the strongest, you get that right." They seem to reject you if your strength doesn't align with their beliefs and you don't act on their principles. your power is irrelevant at that point. Hence the fight with YHVH. His power cannot excuse his relentless drive to enslave everyone in a static, stagnant world.
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Jul 28, 2020 23:00
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Elvis_Maximus posted:It's weird that persona 5 only forced you to take more than a single day in a dungeon once come to think of it. It'd be interesting to have a little more integration between both sides of the game, but that might become too frustrating with the way they don't let you do social stuff and dungeons on the same day (barring a certain max link in P5). Twice, actually. Madarame and Niijima. Also in both cases the game pushes you right back into the Palace the next day so you might as well finish it.
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Jul 28, 2020 23:26
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Law is for cops.
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Jul 28, 2020 23:28
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I always go Law because they never really want you to and I'm a rebel.
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Jul 28, 2020 23:42
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I have a hot take after thinking on P5R some more: P5 should have been 1 dungeon longer. Between Medjet's take down and The factory set up the whole deal is supposed to be "Oh mona's jealous that everyone likes the new navigator so much" and "The Theives are riding high on the hog with their new found fame but are secretly getting railroaded but The Conspiracy" but there's....I think 1 mandatory Mementos dive during that period. There's never a period where they're actually acting on their windfall and making decisions that lead to their shifted priorities that let them get tricked into taking a case that was clearly bait. They go from Normal And Righteous Heroes Saving a Depressed Girl to Famous Band Infighting in a week. The school trip has a lot of them talking about the idea that it might go to their heads but they themselves really never make the turn. It just feels like we're missing a bit where they're actually active and on top of the world.
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Jul 29, 2020 00:51
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Nocturne was the first SMT game that had the devs think "Hey, maybe we should let the playable character have skills besides 'Slash with melee weapon', 'Shoot with gun' and 'talk to the enemy', let them decide if they wanna cast spells or punch and stuff", right? I know the SMT 1 and 2 protags had just their weapons, but does If... count? the main hero(ine) still couldn't cast magic, even with the proto-Persona system.
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Jul 29, 2020 01:37
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It was the first mainline SMT to do that, AFAIK. In Soul Hackers the PC is still just a sword arm, so I don't think the original Devil Summoner was any different. Persona did it before SMT, even back in the first Persona game you had all the PCs capable of using skills. It still seems like MegaTen is married to the idea that normal people can't do anything cool or creative in combat, because there's always some sort of special power or feature that grants them their skills (Magatamas in Nocturne, Skill Crack in Devil Survivor, Whispers in SMT4/Apocalypse, special guns in Strange Journey, Personas, and Mirages).
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Jul 29, 2020 01:51
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Normal guns work, too. Which is kind of one of my favorite things about the franchise, especially when there's stuff like angels being weak to guns. Angels predate the invention of guns so it makes perfect sense, clearly. Double down on the tools of man being a way to turn the tide on the forces of heaven / hell.  Bring back nuke spells  Maybe do something with humans strategically using electricity to kill poo poo, sure the demons can use lightning spells but we can put a switch on it and make it go off remotely, or whatever. Use the COMP to hack your demon's stats!
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Jul 29, 2020 02:03
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One thing I liked about Devil Survivor is how much more you got to see civilians interacting with the demons. Like in all the Personas (3-5 at least) all the fights take place in bubbles but in DS everything just happens live in Tokyo so you see people fleeing or fighting with mundane weapons or trying to ally with demons or becoming magical girls or what have you. It was a cool setting.
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Jul 29, 2020 02:32
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projecthalaxy posted:One thing I liked about Devil Survivor is how much more you got to see civilians interacting with the demons. Like in all the Personas (3-5 at least) all the fights take place in bubbles but in DS everything just happens live in Tokyo so you see people fleeing or fighting with mundane weapons or trying to ally with demons or becoming magical girls or what have you. It was a cool setting. That's one of the most interesting bits about it basically. You have a bunch of regular people basically given magic powers and each of them responds in certain ways (and suffers for doing so.)
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Jul 29, 2020 02:46
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Light Gun Man posted:bring back nuke spells well, they did I don't know why. Nothing about it makes sense to me. What even does the name mean? A thermonuclear bomb is fire and force. I don't understand what fusing or fissioning a persona or shadow itself even means or how it would cause 'damage' and not mudo/hama level annihilation. What does it mean to resist/null/weak/reflect nuke? By what rhyme or reason are these properties given to the personas that have them? It's all nonsense and if they wanted another magical element (not that they need them with bless/dark being regular damage now) they could use force, water, or even gravity. and then you have the weird overlap between nuke and almighty and
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Jul 29, 2020 02:54
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it's ok man you're ok. get some water.
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Jul 29, 2020 03:00
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ZenMasterBullshit posted:I have a hot take after thinking on P5R some more: P5 should have been 1 dungeon longer. I think the school trip is meant to be the idea that the Phantom Thieves are so hyped that they're worldwide famous. Medjed is also supposedly an international organization too since their website is in English, which gave them more 'reach'. The Phantom Thieves doing Band Infighting isn't really part of the Conspiracy's plans, but they'd probably have killed Okumura anyway at some point even if the Thieves didn't actively change his heart.
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Jul 29, 2020 03:02
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I desperately want to play an SMT game, but I've specifically ruled out every SMT game I could actually play. I can do nothing but ask for pity, even though it's really just my own fault. I trailed off near the end of Apocalypse, so I could try to replay that, but it's long and I remember the dungeons being very boring. I could buy P5:R, but I don't really want to play P5 again. I've failed to play Devil Survivor several times because it was slow and had an unappealing soundtrack, even though the plot was good, and I suspect if I try again I'll fail again. I could finally play Nocturne, but that seems pointless when a remake will be coming out within two years. I could play Etrian Odyssey 5 but that's not a SMT game. Maybe I'll just play Strange Journey: Redux. I played original flavor SJ when it came out and I really enjoyed it, evil teleporter maze and all. Good game, good atmosphere, good Jimenez.
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Jul 29, 2020 03:39
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Junpei posted:Nocturne was the first SMT game that had the devs think "Hey, maybe we should let the playable character have skills besides 'Slash with melee weapon', 'Shoot with gun' and 'talk to the enemy', let them decide if they wanna cast spells or punch and stuff", right? Nocturne was also as far as I know the first SMT with only one human character in the party. In the earlier SMT and Devil Summoner games the protagonist couldn't use spells, but almost all of the time you had 1 or 2 other human party members with you who IIRC all could use magic and learned a predetermined set of spells while leveling up like a typical JRPG character. So the decision to give him more skills may have been to balance out the lack of other human party members. Since for the first time there weren't any other characters around to guarantee you had access to basic spells no matter what demons you had recruited/fused. Francis posted:well, they did And of course to make things more confusing, iirc the nuke element was just called "heat" back in the Persona 1-2 days. And then in the original English Persona 1 the almighty spells were all called "Nuke" And the other goofy part of it is "nuclear" and "psychic" being treated like opposites sometimes in P5 just because they are the "new" elements that they chose to include in the game. Item Getter fucked around with this message at 03:53 on Jul 29, 2020 |
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Jul 29, 2020 03:44
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nrook posted:I desperately want to play an SMT game, but I've specifically ruled out every SMT game I could actually play. I can do nothing but ask for pity, even though it's really just my own fault. https://youtube.com/watch?v=LHJbE_kfybs
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Jul 29, 2020 03:49
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nrook posted:I desperately want to play an SMT game, but I've specifically ruled out every SMT game I could actually play. I can do nothing but ask for pity, even though it's really just my own fault. You could try the vastly superior to DeSu 1, Devil Survivor 2 Record Breaker. But SJR is awesome and totally improves on the original.
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Jul 29, 2020 03:57
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nrook posted:I desperately want to play an SMT game, but I've specifically ruled out every SMT game I could actually play. I can do nothing but ask for pity, even though it's really just my own fault. 
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Jul 29, 2020 04:13
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What you all need is Jack Bros HD in your life, with over 4,000 shades of eye searing red to really brighten up your day.
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Jul 29, 2020 04:25
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Wark Say posted:Play Majin Tensei  one of us...
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Jul 29, 2020 05:03
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Law endings remind me of the Qun in Dragon Age. Everyone must conform and accept their place in society. Dissenters are offed or brainwashed. That sounds awful because we all love feeling that our lives depend on our own decisions, but I think that lots of people would accept such a system if that means they get to truly forget their daily suffering.
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Jul 29, 2020 05:07
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Item Getter posted:And of course to make things more confusing, iirc the nuke element was just called "heat" back in the Persona 1-2 days. And then in the original English Persona 1 the almighty spells were all called "Nuke" Wasn't Nuke 'Force' and used Zan spells way back too?
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Jul 29, 2020 05:35
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wologar posted:Law endings remind me of the Qun in Dragon Age. Everyone must conform and accept their place in society. Dissenters are offed or brainwashed. So I'm a huge fan of the Qun and I originally went Law in SJ because of the reasons you outlined. Law has some problems unique to it that the Qun doesn't, though. YHWH is the big one. He's a complete shithead in everything ever. Totalitarian dictatorial utopias can only even have a remote chance of being desirable if the totalitarian dictator is dependable or benevolent. YHWH is neither. Lucifer and Chaos as a whole are usually presented as more respectable because they are at least consistent. If somebody comes along and beats their face in, they are happy as this fits their ideals. YHVH has no ideals besides "hold onto power at any cost." That's why he supports the Yosuga Reason in Nocturne even though it's basically Chaos. In any event, just beat the Killer and Ameno-sagiri. It's nice being underleveled. I remember no bosses after Shadow Mitsuo because I just slept through everything after that. Here though it's a real struggle at Level 64. Not impossible or frustrating but still a struggle. Even the music is so much better when it's a struggle. I didn't think anything of this song originally but hearing this https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=fV7DahJVudI&t=79s While you're fighting to survive is so awesome. Also thanks to Teddie and Naoto, my main frustration with the early game is long done with. I have a team that can actually buff! I can focus on debuffing the boss or healing or damage. I don't have to do everything myself. It really does increase the enjoyment of the battle system tenfold for me. So proud of my Hariti. Always one of my fave demons/personas and the fact I got a Salvation from a Skill Change as well a Spell Master Skill Card for her makes her the perfect Healsona. NikkolasKing fucked around with this message at 06:30 on Jul 29, 2020 |
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Jul 29, 2020 06:21
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Wait, is it explicit that YHVH supports Yosuga in Nocturne? I know they get the support of the Divine race, is that kinda the long and short of it?
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Jul 29, 2020 09:28
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Cleretic posted:Wait, is it explicit that YHVH supports Yosuga in Nocturne? I know they get the support of the Divine race, is that kinda the long and short of it? To support a Reason - any Reason - is to buy into YHVH's game. The Vortex World and making a new universe is all his design. Whether it's Chiaki or Hikawa or Isamu, they're all just dancing to YHVH's tune and he's fine with any path forward just so long as he gets to stay on top and keep making the game's rules. That's why Lucy's whole plan is to reject everything and flip the game board over. Only that really sticks it to God. Well, that's his argument. Freedom also sticks it to YHVH but he has his female friend tell you about why Aradia (Ms. Takao's god) is bad and you shouldn't side with them. I am skeptical of this evil demon king though . Probably shouldn't trust everything he tells you. Especially since Takao is about the only character the game actually seems to want you to like or feel anything for. NikkolasKing fucked around with this message at 09:54 on Jul 29, 2020 |
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Jul 29, 2020 09:50
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Should I play SMT4 before playing SMT4A or does it not matter? Which one is better?
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Jul 29, 2020 13:22
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wologar posted:Law endings remind me of the Qun in Dragon Age. Everyone must conform and accept their place in society. Dissenters are offed or brainwashed. most law endings in SMT fall flat because they're an elaborate con by YHVH and his host - gods in megaten are fueled by human belief, and YHVH favors law because it essentially converts all humans into mindless worship batteries ensuring that he's the sole figure in the pantheon. as a result, going law just makes you feel like a patsy there's only been a couple attempts to change this up that i'm aware of. Shijima is the agnostic version of this concept (though it's just as existentially unsettling, and the fact that Hikawa's the one who kick-starts the Vortex also implies that it's YHVH's favored Reason anyway) while Strange Journey Redux tries to decouple the positive aspects of Law endings from the Host's machinations
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Jul 29, 2020 13:33
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Sampatrick posted:Should I play SMT4 before playing SMT4A or does it not matter? Which one is better? SMT4A takes place as a side story to one of the SMT4 paths, so I'd say play SMT4 first.
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Jul 29, 2020 13:38
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Sampatrick posted:Should I play SMT4 before playing SMT4A or does it not matter? Which one is better? So yes, play SMT4.
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Jul 29, 2020 14:26
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Sampatrick posted:Should I play SMT4 before playing SMT4A or does it not matter? Which one is better? Apocalypse is a direct sequel to 4. I dunno how much of it you'll pick up without having played 4. But that said I feel like playing both back to back will burn you out on the games
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Jul 29, 2020 14:39
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NikkolasKing posted:You could try the vastly superior to DeSu 1, Devil Survivor 2 Record Breaker. I really liked DS1, but never got around to DS2 for whatever reason. Then I thought "I'll wait for the remake" and yet again didn't get around to it. This is how I am an SMT fan that has never finished Nocturne. Atlus has a really bad habit of releasing games for systems I am no longer using
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Jul 29, 2020 14:40
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THE AWESOME GHOST posted:Apocalypse is a direct sequel to 4. I dunno how much of it you'll pick up without having played 4. I played 4A without 4 and didn't feel like I was really missing out on much, although I probably missed some undertones between Walter, Jonathan and Flynn.
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Jul 29, 2020 15:39
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Sampatrick posted:Should I play SMT4 before playing SMT4A or does it not matter? Which one is better? 4A is way better then 4 but 4 is still good and you should prob play it before cause the whole initial point of it is that you're playing from the perspective of "the other side", so to speak
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Jul 29, 2020 15:43
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TBH you get more of SMT4's actual backstory and setting in the first hour of SMT4A than you're likely to get in SMT4 unless you go Neutral.
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Jul 29, 2020 15:47
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Your not really missing much with not trying 2 in terms of story they got rid of a lot about what made 1 interesting and replaced it with a monster of the week approach.
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Jul 29, 2020 16:21
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DeSu 1 does have a better story, yes, especially because you spend all of the story as the scrappy underdog. Like small spoilers, but literally you and your childhood friends/school buddies often have to actually scout for places to sleep on the street that are safe-ish and keep nightwatch because of what happens early on.
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Jul 29, 2020 16:40
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Yeah, I actually was really enjoying the story of Devil Survivor; I’m a sucker for that kind of high-concept desperate day-to-day struggle. It reminded me of The World Ends With You. Unfortunately I didn’t like, like, anything else about the game, so it could only take me so far.
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Jul 29, 2020 18:58
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4A has Dagda so it wins in my book.
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Jul 29, 2020 19:34
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Waaait a second. SMT4 Apocalypse has Navarre as a playable character!? I need to get this game.
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Jul 29, 2020 22:04
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