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misfit miscreants
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Aug 4, 2020 03:58
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Anyone know what the price for the new DLC is gonna be? It's probably going to be my problematic purchase of the year. I'm expecting 15-20 but knowing for sure would be helpful.
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Aug 4, 2020 15:55
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last couple were around like 10 bucks right? This one might be more expensive if only because it looks like it's adding more, depending on how big the desert area ends up actually being, but there's no reason to expect it'll go over 15 unless I'm wrong about the initial price lol
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Aug 4, 2020 16:52
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It hasn't been announced, 15-20 seems most likely. I think WotN was 15 and that was higher than the previous ones since it added a lot more.
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Aug 4, 2020 16:57
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Alrighty, thanks. Fingers crossed it's not racist.
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Aug 4, 2020 16:59
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They seem to be doing a reasonable job of not stepping on that one - the religions in the religious war aren't trying to be analogues to Christianity and Islam and the war itself is being portrayed as a mutual conflict where neither side is 'morally correct' or whatever. The initial background for slavery was pretty  but they've walked that one back.
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Aug 4, 2020 17:24
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They say it's going to be $14.99. I think that was the cost of WotN at launch too.
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Aug 4, 2020 17:26
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I'm really not worried about the new DLC being racist. I wasn't all that worried or concerned to begin with and what they showed in the video preview seemed to present the holy war crisis as a non-denominational war over holy sites shared by two major religions without getting into the details. I've never really understood this thread's issue with the writing in the game, most of it is easy to skip at least and in poor taste at worst - not explicitly racist or w/e. The game is free from a lot of the crusades circlejerking that is pervasive in other games set in similar worlds/times in history.
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Aug 4, 2020 17:44
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It's because the writing is by a complete poo poo lord and that comes through in the nihilistic-at-best shitehawkery hollingshead writes. Seriously its grating on a personal level never mind how poor it is in theory. The writing is still going to be as if its written by a 17 year old Edge lord, we're all going to buy the drat thing but I may send a strongly worded email at some point. A tweet may be more effective. I feel like "battle brothers: The Game" deserves better tbh, its going to age brutally.
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Aug 4, 2020 17:54
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rideANDxORdie posted:I'm really not worried about the new DLC being racist. I wasn't all that worried or concerned to begin with and what they showed in the video preview seemed to present the holy war crisis as a non-denominational war over holy sites shared by two major religions without getting into the details. I've never really understood this thread's issue with the writing in the game, most of it is easy to skip at least and in poor taste at worst - not explicitly racist or w/e. The game is free from a lot of the crusades circlejerking that is pervasive in other games set in similar worlds/times in history. 
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Aug 4, 2020 17:56
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Again, this is in poor taste but isn't racist. Whatever someone said about this game being written as if by a 17 year old is right. If you think that description of how a mercenary captain during the dark ages perceives a refugee is problematic, wait until you read about how refugees were actually treated during the dark ages, or even today! The writing in the game is certainly far from perfect, I've just never understood the pearl clutching w/r/t to these little bits here. The game depicts humanity as a whole (nobles, peasants, village elders, soldiers, mercs, bandits, barbarians, all) as base, nasty and brutish. It would be a bigger issue to me if the game indulged in the kind of mythologizing of "northern" superiority or the innate nobility of the northern folks that is pretty common in games like Kingdom Come
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Aug 4, 2020 18:05
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They haven't changed how they write in two expansions and they're not gonna change it now. I'd recommend that you'd dip if it's bothering you every time you play. I don't think i've read any of it in my last 6 playthroughs or whatever. I just want to make a line of dudes stab other dudes.
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Aug 4, 2020 18:06
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dogstile posted:They haven't changed how they write in two expansions and they're not gonna change it now. I'd recommend that you'd dip if it's bothering you every time you play.
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Aug 4, 2020 18:07
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dogstile posted:They haven't changed how they write in two expansions and they're not gonna change it now. I'd recommend that you'd dip if it's bothering you every time you play. While this is practical thinking, and basically what I do when I play the game, I've read every encounter a couple of times over the course of 400 hrs and I mostly gloss over them out of familiarity. But in a game that has lots of little encounters and stuff popping and they should add to the experience over all, not as part of the core gameplay loop but to add flavour to the setting. If its a matter of what tone do you want thats fine, we can have a brutal medieval tone just fine, but that requires a genuinely competent writer. Which the game doesn't have.
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Aug 4, 2020 18:20
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Isn't this line just giving you a hint about their stats? It indicates that refugees might have higher than average stamina but their resolve sucks. Calling it an example of racism or edgelord writing seems like a stretch.
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Aug 4, 2020 21:29
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Weebus posted:Isn't this line just giving you a hint about their stats? It indicates that refugees might have higher than average stamina but their resolve sucks. Calling it an example of racism or edgelord writing seems like a stretch. Saying refugees "lack conviction" is something of a big oof.
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Aug 4, 2020 21:44
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Weebus posted:Isn't this line just giving you a hint about their stats? It indicates that refugees might have higher than average stamina but their resolve sucks. Calling it an example of racism or edgelord writing seems like a stretch.
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Aug 4, 2020 21:45
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muthafucks trying to talk about 'realism' or 'how it really was' in a game where no one has legs.
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Aug 4, 2020 21:51
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Thread has been an amazing honeypot for chuds who can't help but tell on themselves.
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Aug 4, 2020 21:52
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"REDGUARDS are the black guys of Morrowind. Their intelligence, willpower and personality suck; their strength and endurance is pretty great; and their agility and speed are average." callback to lizardwizard who got probated for posting this in their oblivion LP many years ago that for some reason i still remember 
Strumpie fucked around with this message at 22:02 on Aug 4, 2020 |
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Aug 4, 2020 21:54
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Scaramouche posted:Saying refugees "lack conviction" is something of a big oof. Wizard Styles posted:Why do Refugees have low Resolve? Well I thought it was about game balance and didn't really read too much into it. Even the description for the refugee in the image posted earlier says that the guy is extremely determined to live. That's not an inherently negative trait. moot the hopple posted:Thread has been an amazing honeypot for chuds who can't help but tell on themselves. lol what
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Aug 4, 2020 21:57
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I mean it's sorta of glaring when the actual gameplay design is like, 9/10 and the writing is 4/10. Not that i'm not interested in DLC but having played for a while now it just feels like the writing portion is a big missed opportunity.
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Aug 5, 2020 09:24
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They've at least attempted to address the issue somewhat by renaming Slaves to Indebted or something similar. Okay it's not really a fix but at least they are showing that they are willing to do something about it, which gets them a small amount of goodwill from me.
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Aug 5, 2020 11:26
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Weebus posted:Isn't this line just giving you a hint about their stats? It indicates that refugees might have higher than average stamina but their resolve sucks. Calling it an example of racism or edgelord writing seems like a stretch. A common right wing talking point, especially during the mid 2010s refugee crisis, that saw large numbers of people fleeing Iraq and Syria to Europe due to ongoing civil wars following the Arab spring, was that people shouldn't of fled the unrest but stayed and fought. This argument was usually coupled with a lot more racist arguments like replacement theory, and was usually leveraged to say that Europeans should set up machine guns on the borders and let thousands drown in the Mediterranean. The issue itself could be argued to be a major factor behind the election of various reactionaries across Europe. The in-game text would be relatively benign if still a sneering attitude to take towards refugees, but taken in the context of the rest of the games writing its not hard to see it as laundering right wing views on the issue through flavour text.
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Aug 5, 2020 11:57
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Oh, come on. The act of being forced from your homeland, looking for someone to take you in despite prejudices is an emotionally crushing thing. Of course resolve would be shattered. Why read this any other way?
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Aug 5, 2020 12:11
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Acrimony.Amigos
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Aug 5, 2020 12:16
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Peace Pals... no wait
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Aug 5, 2020 12:18
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Chinook posted:Oh, come on. The act of being forced from your homeland, looking for someone to take you in despite prejudices is an emotionally crushing thing. Of course resolve would be shattered. Why read this any other way? Because the text literally reads "refugees lack the conviction to fight for their homes..."? And like I said, this one line would be fairly innocuous on its own, but in the context of the attitude of the rest of the writing its a justifiable read. Edit: maybe my wording was too harsh, I don't mean to argue that the writing in Battle Brothers is openly white supremacist, just that the flavour writing for refugees is an example of the various right wing attitudes expressed through out the text. Vagabong fucked around with this message at 12:58 on Aug 5, 2020 |
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Aug 5, 2020 12:44
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Chinook posted:Oh, come on. The act of being forced from your homeland, looking for someone to take you in despite prejudices is an emotionally crushing thing. Of course resolve would be shattered. Why read this any other way? JustaDamnFool posted:Because the text literally reads "refugees lack the conviction to fight for their homes..."? I'll be honest and say that as a red blooded communist, who typically is more highly attuned than most to all sorts of right wing dogwhistles and has done a fair bit about warning others who were completely unaware of the same, that I was reading all of the posts on this page several times and still completely clueless what the objection was to the writing in the example given. That being said, after that explanation I can at least see where someone would get the idea that it was a coded wink towards right wing nationalists now--as an American, that's not really ever been a sentiment expressed towards refugees here, at least commonly, but I know in Europe and among Europeans it has been at times, and this dev team is European as well and thus this example might be relevant in context. I still think it's a bit of a reach, however. If it is one of those wink-nods, on its own it reads like the type of extremely subtle thing one single person on the dev team slips in that's innocuous enough to be read and glossed over for 99% of the people that play the game whereas the 1% that are his chud buddies might see it and get the "joke". It would be much more compelling if there were other examples, to be completely honest.
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Aug 5, 2020 13:23
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HiroProtagonist posted:I'll be honest and say that as a red blooded communist, who typically is more highly attuned than most to all sorts of right wing dogwhistles and has done a fair bit about warning others who were completely unaware of the same, that I was reading all of the posts on this page several times and still completely clueless what the objection was to the writing in the example given. Uh look who's president and has 44% pf the electorate cheering for concentration camps after criminizing refuge? Christ on a stick.
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Aug 5, 2020 15:34
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Submarine Sandpaper posted:Uh look who's president and has 44% pf the electorate cheering for concentration camps after criminizing refuge? Christ on a stick. White people go way outta their way to defend poo poo like this instead of saying its garbage, its pretty much: moot the hopple posted:Thread has been an amazing honeypot for chuds who can't help but tell on themselves.
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Aug 5, 2020 15:39
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Submarine Sandpaper posted:Uh look who's president and has 44% pf the electorate cheering for concentration camps after criminizing refuge? Christ on a stick. I specifically said the phrasing there did not read as being anti-refugee initially. I also said I can see why it would after the explanation, especially in the proper context of European nativists. This isn't defending gently caress all, particularly when I said, again, I could not tell what the criticism was in the first place. If there is chuddery throughout the game's writing there should also be other examples of similar poo poo. Accusing people of defending awful poo poo because they admitted they skipped over much of the flavor text is really a bit much.
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Aug 5, 2020 15:54
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JustaDamnFool posted:Because the text literally reads "refugees lack the conviction to fight for their homes..."? "on its own" Wizard Styles posted:Quick reminder that Casey Hollingshead, the head and possibly only writer for Battle Brothers was or is active on RPG Codex, where he posted gems like these: e: Also seriously where are my Battle Sisters? Almost none of the writing has to be changed, you add in some new art and voila women in the game, that's all it takes. and yet, three expansions down the road, NO battle sisters. e2: Also again to be clear: I'm getting the expansion, it's gonna be my problematic purchase of the year. I'm not saying you can't enjoy Battle Brothers, I'm saying I want people to be aware of its problematic elements so they can make informed decisions. I also continue to hope that the expansion won't be racist. StrixNebulosa fucked around with this message at 16:02 on Aug 5, 2020 |
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Aug 5, 2020 15:58
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StrixNebulosa posted:"on its own" Okay, now this tracks. And thanks for quoting this post, because now that's pretty much all the evidence you'd need to read proper context into the writing. It's a month and a half back and I missed it entirely.
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Aug 5, 2020 16:02
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that and projecting that attitude into the past is apocryphal. sacred hospitality was taken rather seriously, even in the """dark ages"""
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Aug 5, 2020 16:46
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moot the hopple posted:Thread has been an amazing honeypot for chuds who can't help but tell on themselves. Is it? I've been in here since just before Beasts and Exploration and don't have a clue what you're talking about. Sounds like I'm not the only one either: HiroProtagonist posted:I'll be honest and say that as a red blooded communist, who typically is more highly attuned than most to all sorts of right wing dogwhistles and has done a fair bit about warning others who were completely unaware of the same, that I was reading all of the posts on this page several times and still completely clueless what the objection was to the writing in the example given. That's pretty much me in a nutshell. Nobody here is defending the writing. I don't enjoy it. I skip it. I find it pointlessly cruel, sneering, immature and reductive in its morality. All that was ever expressed is that if the writing in BBros turns you off from the game, it's pretty unlikely that this new DLC will break the mold. Saying refugees "lack the resolve to fight" or whatever is a poo poo take that I don't agree with But someone coming in and says "looking forward to the DLC, hope it isn't racist" is a really dumb take. New Taylor Swift coming out? Hope it isn't racist. New Marvel movie? Hope it isn't racist. Of course we all wish the DLC isn't racist. So far the only argument in this thread that it could be is someone quoting an LP (I don't watch) of Morrowind, a game I don't play, followed by a whole bunch of strawmanning. The only new thing this discussion has brought to light to me is that that Overhype hired what appears to be 4channer or alt-righter to write their text. Didn't know this before, explains a lot about BBros writing, sucks poo poo and hopefully he's gone for the sequel.
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Aug 5, 2020 16:56
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rideANDxORdie posted:But someone coming in and says "looking forward to the DLC, hope it isn't racist" is a really dumb take. New Taylor Swift coming out? Hope it isn't racist. New Marvel movie? Hope it isn't racist. Of course we all wish the DLC isn't racist. So far the only argument in this thread that it could be is someone quoting an LP (I don't watch) of Morrowind, a game I don't play, followed by a whole bunch of strawmanning. The only new thing this discussion has brought to light to me is that that Overhype hired what appears to be 4channer or alt-righter to write their text. Didn't know this before, explains a lot about BBros writing, sucks poo poo and hopefully he's gone for the sequel. As the someone with the "really dumb take" I'll respond: a chud writer writing a setting that is specifically the Middle East has a significantly non-zero chance of being racist about it. That's why I said what I said.
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Aug 5, 2020 16:59
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HiroProtagonist posted:I specifically said the phrasing there did not read as being anti-refugee initially. I also said I can see why it would after the explanation, especially in the proper context of European nativists. It's not just European nativist. I dont know what hole you live in if you have not seen that from say your president or the majority party in the US
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Aug 5, 2020 17:10
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Submarine Sandpaper posted:It's not just European nativist. I dont know what hole you live in if you have not seen that from say your president or the majority party in the US That "refugees lack conviction to fight for their homes"? No, I have not, and in my own personal interest I'd like to see where Trump or even a notable American right wing mouthpiece said something along those lines just to pat myself down and make sure I somehow haven't been oblivious enough to miss something like that. It is definitely not a common talking point I think most Americans would recognize as right wing. It just sounds weird, but until the larger context was explained that probably is why a lot of Americans missed it especially in a game about fantasy mercenaries with no connection to real world events. Europeans, however; I recognize hearing rhetoric along those lines in retrospect now in reference to the Arab Spring. And again, I'm not arguing in defense here. I freely admit that especially in context of the lead writer's extremely poo poo racist beliefs it qualifies as a dogwhistle. StrixNebulosa posted:As the someone with the "really dumb take" I'll respond: a chud writer writing a setting that is specifically the Middle East has a significantly non-zero chance of being racist about it. That's why I said what I said. This is extremely undeniable.
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Aug 5, 2020 17:27
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Aug 5, 2020 17:50
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