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Rescue Toaster posted:This is interesting because I've been extremely careful weighing everything. All these are intentionally pretty high hydration it seems like. But I guess that can exacerbate problems with gluten development too? Taking a look online at some comparisons though it seems like I might favor a lower hydration bread that has closer to a store bought texture (dryer but less big airy holes in it) anyway. Experiment a bit. I've got a sourdough recipie I've been using for a while and I've recently realized that as written it's really high hydration. I've been slowly stepping it down a bit as I make subsequent loafs and am generally liking the results.
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Aug 2, 2020 18:59
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The flour is a variable too if they don't spell out the exact brand like a King Arthur recipe. You can coax more water into the dough if you let it rest mixed for a few hours. This can also help with kneading, which is another variable between the recipe and you. Is this a sourdough? If so then I'd cut that out and use some commercial yeast just to strike that out. Also, you will want to do all the ritual with proofing.
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Aug 2, 2020 19:03
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Rescue Toaster posted:6) The inside of the bread has an odd shiny/plastic-y/eggy texture that's very unpleasant. That's actually desirable in a high hydration dough, in my understanding. Starch gelatinization or some such.
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Aug 2, 2020 21:57
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I really thought this Italian bread from BBA was going to be off cause I neglected every step but it’s probably the best bread I’ve made. Turned a loaf into garlic bread and had it with cacio e pepe and caprese salad. Sorry for the burnt garlic our broiler is poo poo Also margaritas paired with cacio makes me want to make a pepper and lime-cello cake cheese eats mouse fucked around with this message at 02:32 on Aug 3, 2020 |
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Aug 3, 2020 02:24
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Rescue Toaster posted:I've tried about 5 different recipes for a basic round white bread 'county' loaf in a dutch oven. And even with wildly different methods like no-knead vs mixer, multiday rests in fridge vs same day, instant vs active-dry yeast, different varieties of folding & shaping, bread flour vs AP flour, making a basic overnight 'starter' thing, etc... the result is always absolutely exactly the same. 1, 2, and 3 tell me the yeast ran out of food. Fix this with some combo of less yeast, shorter rise time, and/or cooler temperatures when rising. 5 some people like that, some don't. Do you want big bubbles? This will change once 1-3 are addressed too. 6 is actually good as Chad Sexington notes because that means you fully gelatinized your starches and the texture should be right for that kind of bread (chewy). If you don't want that texture there are ways to change it. Try making small loaves (like 250g total flour weight) regularly to see if you can dial in what it takes to get what you want. Don't change more than one variable at a time.
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Aug 3, 2020 04:33
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I didn't realize that it's a desirable texture, but maybe I've just never had nice enough bread anywhere to encounter it. Do you actually enjoy it? I find it unpleasantly rubbery, and figured it was wrong. Maybe I'm just not a refined enough person to know what's good.
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Aug 3, 2020 04:41
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It's kind of hard to tell from pictures. You can definitely get into a "gummy" territory which definitely isn't desirable. I was getting that for a while but I think it was just because I was being lazy with shaping and under-developing gluten, plus either over or under-fermenting the dough. You might also have more problems than normal if it's sliced too early. Bread still cooks and changes as it cools, the inside is still steaming and setting.
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Aug 3, 2020 05:28
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There's a good and a bad gumminess. The bad would be from an undercooked loaf but that picture looked pretty good. You'd get a section in the center that's just homogenous dough and the cut would drag down through the rest of the loaf. You can sacrifice a slice by ripping out the soft center and rolling it up. If it's sticky, it's undercooked. If it's cooked, you might get some kind of residue but not something you feel like you're re-kneading. I'm wondering now if Rescue Toaster is looking more for a sandwich loaf or something more like that. Yeah, lean breads can make some awesome sandwiches but it isn't my first reach. I've been generally using doughs with less hydration and some fat instead for that kind of thing. Also, no egg. As an alternative, maybe Rescue Toaster's looking for a stringier crumb.
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Aug 3, 2020 07:09
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It was definitely cooked/set. I'm guessing just because it rose/sprung so little that there was just such a dense texture of the plastic/rubber in between each air bubble. I've definitely had bread from a bakery with a hint of that internal shiny/plasticized characteristic and it wasn't off-putting because there was so much more air inside. I'd definitely be fine with a more sandwich or italian? style bread. What makes no sense to me is in, for example, babish's video: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Jizr6LR83Kk&t=200s That's an 88% hydration dough (354g water 400g flour) which seems insane that it comes out more like a traditional sandwich loaf, and only 1/8 of a teaspoon of yeast yet it blows up like a drat soccer ball. In this other recipe I've tried: https://www.kingarthurbaking.com/recipes/no-knead-crusty-white-bread-recipe Even though it's a terrible picture you can see that internal texture (the shinyness) is there, but it's just much less dense than mine. And that's a 75% hydration and uses an entire packet of yeast (for two loaves). My picture earlier is of this recipe. At this point I'd say the #1 issue is I need to get it to not be dense, whatever other things are going on I can adjust later, but currently everything is flat out inedible because of how dense it is. Rescue Toaster fucked around with this message at 14:22 on Aug 3, 2020 |
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Aug 3, 2020 14:18
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Pretty much every time my bread comes out dense as gently caress it's because I over proofed it. Also if you're doing the dutch oven thing, trying putting that into the (big) oven cold. As in the oven you're putting it in hasnt' come up to temp yet. Tack on a few extra minutes to your cook time. I've gotten some great oven spring that way. I want to say I was cooking my dutch oven sourdough for 50 minutes at 500 and then changed to 70 at cold rising to 500.
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Aug 3, 2020 15:06
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Cyrano4747 posted:Pretty much every time my bread comes out dense as gently caress it's because I over proofed it. I may try this out today for shits and giggles. My sourdough has had good, but not great, spring using a preheated dutch oven at 450 — 25 minutes covered and ~20 minutes to brown it. Let's see if I can get more spring going in cold. I want to experiment with cutting out the overnight phase in the fridge too, since it worked out fine for me last time, but only one variable at a time I guess.
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Aug 3, 2020 15:14
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Rescue Toaster posted:It was definitely cooked/set. I'm guessing just because it rose/sprung so little that there was just such a dense texture of the plastic/rubber in between each air bubble. I've definitely had bread from a bakery with a hint of that internal shiny/plasticized characteristic and it wasn't off-putting because there was so much more air inside. Yeast can be pretty powerful! https://twitter.com/ailsabm/status/433154320029454336?s=20
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Aug 3, 2020 15:16
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Chad Sexington posted:I may try this out today for shits and giggles. I leave it in covered the whole time fwiw.
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Aug 3, 2020 15:27
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The thought that the outside would set and trap the bread at a given size, causing it to be dense, has occurred to me, not sure if there's any truth in that. Especially if the yeast are out of fuel at that point and can't push through it. I also have a proper lame now for slashing it rather than my crappy knives. So that might improve things too. For starters I'll try a little lower hydration, be careful not to over-proof, and better cuts w/ the razor, and see what happens.
Rescue Toaster fucked around with this message at 15:36 on Aug 3, 2020 |
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Aug 3, 2020 15:33
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Honestly I’ve never noticed my lame skills (which are . . . lame  ) making the difference with rise. I’ve had loaves where I hosed up the cuts just say gently caress yo crust and bust out on their own, and loaves with very nice slashes be lazy and barely rise.
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Aug 3, 2020 15:39
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Submarine Sandpaper posted:Someone can correct me if I'm wrong but that's not why it would not have had oven spring. The spring comes from the yeast realizing they're going to die and giving one last fart. If they lack food, as someone mentioned above, there you go. Ooo the forbidden sourdough starter
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Aug 3, 2020 15:50
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Rescue Toaster posted:It was definitely cooked/set. I'm guessing just because it rose/sprung so little that there was just such a dense texture of the plastic/rubber in between each air bubble. I've definitely had bread from a bakery with a hint of that internal shiny/plasticized characteristic and it wasn't off-putting because there was so much more air inside. I started out using the same KAF recipe. My pet theory is that they bought a bad pallet of yeast a few years ago and so every recipe has like a lot of yeast. I'm currently putting in 3g to about 2/3 that recipe (I'm at about 575g flour and I've also been doing a hydration closer to 2/3) batch and it's been vigorous enough. So it could easily be a timing/yeast issue. So maybe try again, but with less yeast and erring on the side of refrigerating early. I usually ferment in a glass bowl with a plastic lid so I just look underneath to see when medium-sized bubbles form. But it will continue once you refrigerate it since it will take a while to cool. Then refrigerate for a few days; the cold fermentation can add flavor, and also "food" for the yeast if that is the problem. In the fridge enzymes will slowly break down some of the starch into sugar. For the final shaping, I've been deviating from that KAF recipe a decent amount. I've been doing some stretch and folds right after I take the dough out of the fridge. Then I let it warm up which can take a while, like an hour+ depending on temperature and fermenting vessel. After it's enlivened I do a final shaping then let it rise for maybe another hour-ish. The usual test of the final proof is to just poke it with a wet finger. If the indentation stays there and doesn't immediately relax back then it's ready.
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Aug 3, 2020 17:59
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Made some bagels. Used bagels to make lunch. 
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Aug 5, 2020 02:32
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blixa posted:Used bagels to make lunch. involuntarily went "unff", looks amazing
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Aug 5, 2020 05:52
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Submarine Sandpaper posted:Someone can correct me if I'm wrong but that's not why it would not have had oven spring. The spring comes from the yeast realizing they're going to die and giving one last fart. If they lack food, as someone mentioned above, there you go. Ive been out of breadmaking for a while and now that Im getting back into it Im coming back to forums and poo poo and relearning--I recently read and remembered someone saying you dont want your dough to fully proof the second time, especially for a good score. Ideally, I remember reading, you want to catch it at like 75-80% or so of the way through the second proof to get a real good oven spring. You dont want it underproofed but theres a window where you get a really excellent spring, versus just a normal "end of the proofing time, not too much yeast left" oven spring. I dont know if it works but it makes sense and Ive always had varying success with oven spring since I dont quite as strictly adhere to timing and temperature, I go by if the dough is doubled-ish or not, and there have been times when Ive had explosive oven spring like that. The other thing about spring is that it depends on the surface tension in the dough, and also maybe scoring. That's really the technical part that I stumble on, because my philosophy has always been that if you have active yeast and add it to flour, water and salt, you have bread--less about the "baking is science" aspect of it and more like a tradeskill or some poo poo. My family and I dont really like "sour" sourdough so I usually convert my recipes to fully room temperature, one-day loaves, so I usually end up with it fully fermenting the second time, but I do remember with cold and slower proofs, its easier to catch that window, especially since my fridge is usually kept cold enough that it sometimes seems like my dough goes kinda dormant when I put it in, and Ill have to leave it out for an hour or two before baking it if I do an overnight ferment. Devoyniche fucked around with this message at 16:29 on Aug 5, 2020 |
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Aug 5, 2020 16:22
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Anyone have a recipe they'd recommend for good Cuban bread? Still haven't found lard yet at my whitey grocery stores, but I'm on the hunt.
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Aug 5, 2020 17:09
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Chad Sexington posted:Anyone have a recipe they'd recommend for good Cuban bread? Walmart carries lard. And the recipe on weissman's channel worked pretty well for me when I made it.
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Aug 5, 2020 19:07
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I answered my own question, Im dumb.
Devoyniche fucked around with this message at 22:31 on Aug 7, 2020 |
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Aug 5, 2020 22:36
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gently caress I love bread.   This is ~77% hydration (600g total water + 775g total flour + about a tablespoon of starter for two loaves). I did about 35% whole wheat, 20% rye, and 45% bread flour. Poolish started in the early afternoon on day 1, rest of ingredients joined in about 5 hours later, stretching and folding over 3 hours, shaping and overnight in the fridge, then 20 minutes at 500 with lid on the Dutch oven, 20 minutes at 450 without the lid. So loving good, holy poo poo. Had some great Belgian butter with big sea salt crystals and it's just perfect.
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Aug 8, 2020 23:30
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I made the Perfect Loaf babka dough last night and gave it the cold overnight proof. I've decided to put off the bake until Tuesday when we need it, will it be okay in the fridge until then? It's pretty firm and I'm going to roll it out so I don't think there's anything to lose?
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Aug 9, 2020 19:32
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You'll be good it'll probably be a little more fermented testing but that's not a bad thing. The one place I used to work at we'd mix a giant batch of brioche at the beginning of the week put it in bus tubs in the walk in and work out of that for the week the ones we baked on Friday were always the best tasting of the bunch. Any left over dough went into the next weeks batch as a pâte fermentée.
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Aug 10, 2020 08:42
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Maybe my best sourdough ever! Really starting to get a feel for how to manage hydration levels. Knocked down the water content because it's been swampy and humid and I think that was what helped the dough keep its shape and get that awesome oven spring. Also now on-board Team Cold Cast Iron. I also underestimated how much better a proper lame would be for scoring. Looking forward to playing with that more moving forward. 
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Aug 10, 2020 17:09
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Chad Sexington posted:Maybe my best sourdough ever! Really starting to get a feel for how to manage hydration levels. Knocked down the water content because it's been swampy and humid and I think that was what helped the dough keep its shape and get that awesome oven spring. Also now on-board Team Cold Cast Iron. What was your hydration level there? I've been having issues with flatter breads recently and I'm trying to figure out wtf. Think I might need to tweak my hydration.
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Aug 10, 2020 17:19
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Cyrano4747 posted:What was your hydration level there? I've been having issues with flatter breads recently and I'm trying to figure out wtf. Think I might need to tweak my hydration. Somewhere between 70-80%. My usual recipe is 80%, but I cut out 100g of water from the initial weigh-in and then eyeballed how much more I needed until it looked right. What may have been throwing me previously is the recipe calls for 350g bread flour and 90g wheat flour, but I've been swapping all-purpose for the wheat and that's a good deal less thirsty.
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Aug 10, 2020 17:52
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Should focaccia done in a pan on top of a stone have a bottom crust? I did some at the mouth of my pizza oven while it was heating up and didn't really get anything. The floor at the mouth doesn't get really hot and I sucked up whatever heat it had when I did the pan. The crust on top and texture inside where fantastic though.
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Aug 11, 2020 18:14
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easily the best loaf of sourdough I've made yet. the move to 80% hydration was huge.  
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Aug 12, 2020 21:42
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Cyrano4747 posted:Honestly I’ve never noticed my lame skills (which are . . . lame imo proper slashing is important. either that or being in the banneton with a slightly steeper side than the dutch oven the other was in, as the container and the very poorly done slashes are the only variable between these two (besides flour but I don't think that should affect). You can see the height is almost similar but the overall shape is way better with proper cuts 
The Walrus fucked around with this message at 21:50 on Aug 12, 2020 |
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Aug 12, 2020 21:48
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Yeah, right now it's more a lack of rise that's my problem. I've got a loaf chilling in the fridge right now where I stepped the hydration back significantly, so we'll see how that does.
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Aug 12, 2020 22:04
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nice looking bread
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Aug 13, 2020 00:07
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New house rule: 10% of all bread dough gets reserved to make a little snack for the day the loaf is baked. Usually I don't mind the delicious smell and the day's wait to cut into a loaf, but daaaang tonight was hard. The whole wheat sourdough sandwich loaf I made smelled more amazing than usual. Looking forward to a few QA slices tomorrow.
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Aug 13, 2020 04:29
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effika posted:New house rule: Why do you wait a whole day? My recipe makes two loaves and I usually wait 30 minutes or so to cut the first one.
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Aug 13, 2020 11:52
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I wait two hour generally. I guess if you're making smaller loaves they'd cool faster?
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Aug 13, 2020 12:32
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Yeah, I make decent sized loaves and wait maybe an hour or so. That said, we tend to eat the whole loaf in a day. Usually bread making days are days when we're having pasta or something else that makes sense to have bread to soak up sauces etc, so half the loaf gets eaten as lunch with olive oil or whatever, and then the other half is basically a side dish with dinner.
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Aug 13, 2020 13:14
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Cyrano4747 posted:Yeah, right now it's more a lack of rise that's my problem. I've got a loaf chilling in the fridge right now where I stepped the hydration back significantly, so we'll see how that does. Yup. Much better: 
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Aug 13, 2020 17:20
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nwin posted:Why do you wait a whole day? These are dense loaves and I've found if I don't wait a day they feel kinda gummy.
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Aug 13, 2020 18:31
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