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That's definitely a glitch and would definitely be flagged if someone spotted it internally, and then subsequently triaged because it's fun harmless quirk
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Aug 4, 2020 15:52
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Eh, I guess it depends on how you use the word. As a programmer, I think about glitches as behaviour that should not be happening, but does anyway out of some unpredictable interaction of factors that can be pretty esoteric and hard to track down. This here definitely should be happening, it's just one of those cases that would've needed special handling but that no one thought of at the time. It's just one of those things you get when you're trying something completely new and you're not really sure what kind of problems to expect.
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Aug 4, 2020 16:07
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Cardiovorax posted:This here definitely should be happening, it's just one of those cases that would've needed special handling but that no one thought of at the time. Cardiovorax posted:It's not really a glitch, per se, because that's pretty clearly more the result of an unhandled edge case.  haveblue posted:That's definitely a glitch and would definitely be flagged if someone spotted it internally, and then subsequently triaged because it's fun harmless quirk Yep.
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Aug 4, 2020 16:25
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Aug 4, 2020 16:27
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If it's working as intended and fully defined in the spec but the intention is stupid it's still usually called a bug.
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Aug 4, 2020 16:29
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PYF Game Glitch: it's working as intended and fully defined in the spec
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Aug 4, 2020 16:46
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Hey, just because you don't care about the difference doesn't mean there isn't one, at least in how and why issues like this crop up and in what you need to do to resolve them. Bugs are largely programming flaws and the unintended behaviour is a mistake, something that can be fixed if you can figure out what was done wrong. A glitch is an emergent thing, where a bunch of often nearly uncontrollable factors come together in a way that causes the program to behave in ways it wasn't ever supposed to. They can be completely unique to the system the software is running on, possibly even caused by the hardware itself. Unhandled edge cases, on the other hand, are the bane of every software developer because no matter how idiot-proof you try to make your software, there will always be a better idiot who comes up with something to break your work in unexpected ways that no sane person would have expected anyone to ever do with it. You know what's going on and exactly what you need to do fix the issue, it's just frustrating because people will still blame you for not being able to think of as many stupid ideas to pre-emptively catch and handle as all users of your product can when put together.
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Aug 4, 2020 17:57
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Cardiovorax posted:Hey, just because you don't care about the difference doesn't mean there isn't one, at least in how and why issues like this crop up and in what you need to do to resolve them. Bugs are largely programming flaws and the unintended behaviour is a mistake, something that can be fixed if you can figure out what was done wrong. A glitch is an emergent thing, where a bunch of often nearly uncontrollable factors come together in a way that causes the program to behave in ways it wasn't ever supposed to. They can be completely unique to the system the software is running on, possibly even caused by the hardware itself. but if I'm understanding theis new video game correctly (which is completely possible and likely), the photo mode breaks when you swim? that is considered an edge case?
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Aug 4, 2020 18:24
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It's not breaking, it's trying to stay in the same position but can't because it's not allowed to pass through most physical objects. It's just that those objects are usually static rather than moving up and down like the ocean surface there. So a situation that won't matter 99.5% of the time, but one I tried specifically to see how weird it might behave.
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Aug 4, 2020 18:30
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Cardiovorax posted:Hey, just because you don't care about the difference doesn't mean there isn't one, at least in how and why issues like this crop up and in what you need to do to resolve them. Bugs are largely programming flaws and the unintended behaviour is a mistake, something that can be fixed if you can figure out what was done wrong. A glitch is an emergent thing, where a bunch of often nearly uncontrollable factors come together in a way that causes the program to behave in ways it wasn't ever supposed to. They can be completely unique to the system the software is running on, possibly even caused by the hardware itself. Backing up entirely into project management speak for accuracy of language, this is a clear defect. In a video game meant to give end users fun, there's a bug that prevents you from taking good swimming screenshots in photo mode, a drag on the gameplay experience. From a quality point of view we return back to the idea in one of the first comments of how did this bug not get caught in quality in a test requiring them to test photo mode once in every movement mode and combat animation. We can argue that the designers hosed up the spec by not considering edge cases or call users stupid for wanting screenshots of swimming or say actually it's intended just like the leaves doinking into your face and it's up to the user to get a good shot around the dynamic elements and maybe all these takes are correct but at the end of the day it's time to put your coding gloves on and figure out a way to freeze water while you're swimming or make static characters bob in water while otherwise motionless.
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Aug 4, 2020 19:21
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Reminds me of Software Does Not Fail.
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Aug 4, 2020 19:44
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zedprime posted:Ok I think I get it now. Bugs and glitches are honest mistakes of the hardworking programmers and hardware/kernel developers making technical mistakes. Meanwhile edge cases aren't even the programmers fault, they wouldn't happen except those stupid end users are such big idiots using things the wrong way. lol
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Aug 4, 2020 20:29
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A developer sets up a bar. A QA orders 1 beer. Orders 99 beers. Orders & beers. Orders 4294967296 beers. Orders - 1 beers. A customer comes in and asks where the bathroom is and the bar explodes.
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Aug 4, 2020 20:31
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Doc Hawkins posted:Reminds me of Software Does Not Fail. Almost as insufferable as don't write bugs. Almost.
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Aug 4, 2020 21:19
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zedprime posted:Ok I think I get it now. Bugs and glitches are honest mistakes of the hardworking programmers and hardware/kernel developers making technical mistakes. Meanwhile edge cases aren't even the programmers fault, they wouldn't happen except those stupid end users are such big idiots using things the wrong way. If you cannot take perfect pictures of the samurai Jin Sakai, the Ghost of Tsushima, bathing in the ocean then your samurai mongol-killing simulator is a FAILURE
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Aug 5, 2020 14:29
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Captain Monkey posted:If you cannot take perfect pictures of the samurai Jin Sakai, the Ghost of Tsushima, bathing in the ocean then your samurai mongol-killing simulator is a FAILURE
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Aug 5, 2020 14:34
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zedprime posted:The game is what it is based on strengths and faults more important than photo mode. I'm just arguing against the idea that waves rolling over frozen samurai man is somehow my fault for being a bad user who wants pictures of him at an awkward time. No, your incorrect. the frozen flying samurai is actually the intended behavior and not a bug. The Game is Perfect, it is you that is flawed
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Aug 5, 2020 14:40
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Captain Monkey posted:If you cannot take perfect pictures of the samurai Jin Sakai, the Ghost of Tsushima, bathing in the ocean then your samurai mongol-killing simulator is a FAILURE
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Aug 5, 2020 14:44
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It’s definitely a glitch/unintended interaction. I just thought it was funny some dude wrote like 4 paragraphs worth of text mad about it because it’s also super minor.
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Aug 5, 2020 14:52
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Captain Monkey posted:It’s definitely a glitch/unintended interaction. The greatest game glitch of all time was in our hearts.
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Aug 5, 2020 14:53
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zedprime posted:The game is what it is based on strengths and faults more important than photo mode. I'm just arguing against the idea that waves rolling over frozen samurai man is somehow my fault for being a bad user who wants pictures of him at an awkward time.
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Aug 5, 2020 16:18
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LifeSunDeath posted:The greatest game glitch of all time was in our hearts. if you really think about it, isn't life itself an unintended edge case of physics 
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Aug 5, 2020 16:43
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*giant bong rip* do you think God would call Hitler a problem between chair and keyboard?
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Aug 5, 2020 17:17
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Evolution is basically just a few million years of funny glitches.
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Aug 5, 2020 17:34
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It's not my fault that I died from trying to breathe pure methane, evolution should've seen it coming that people would try that instead of giving us these glitchy-rear end lungs.
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Aug 5, 2020 17:44
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Version 0.873 (Atavism) patch notes Humans * Offspring born with tails should now be fixed * Removed enhanced night vision * Removed fur * Increased brain capacity Chickens * Removed teeth and long tails * Replaced arms with wings (non flight)
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Aug 5, 2020 17:46
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Stare-Out posted:* Increased brain capacity Patch did not correct issue for all users, report submitted
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Aug 5, 2020 17:54
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Cardiovorax posted:It's not my fault that I died from trying to breathe pure methane, evolution should've seen it coming that people would try that instead of giving us these glitchy-rear end lungs. honestly the human system that keeps track of whether you need to breathe is a tremendous loving hack. turns out that instead of checking how much oxygen is in the blood, all it does is check how much co2 is in there, ie. are you exhaling and keeping it low enough. this is why we need carbon monoxide alarms and asphyxiation by inert gas is painless: your body doesn't loving notice that it's got no goddamn oxygen because hey, we're excreting all the co2 waste, so that means everything's cool, right? 
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Aug 5, 2020 18:19
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It's basically "Well, it's not been a problem before so why bother? As long as you get to bone down before it's an issue, no need to address it. Also might wanna have a random mutation that keeps you from dying super quick from it, that'd be great."
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Aug 5, 2020 18:36
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World War Mammories posted:honestly the human system that keeps track of whether you need to breathe is a tremendous loving hack. turns out that instead of checking how much oxygen is in the blood, all it does is check how much co2 is in there, ie. are you exhaling and keeping it low enough. this is why we need carbon monoxide alarms and asphyxiation by inert gas is painless: your body doesn't loving notice that it's got no goddamn oxygen because hey, we're excreting all the co2 waste, so that means everything's cool, right? On the other end of that scale, this has the side effect of making the inhalation of pure CO2 what is apparently "one of the most mind-breakingly intense experiences of pure terror that a human being can experience," going by how I've heard it described, because it supposedly makes your body go from normal operating mode into "oh god you are turbo-suffocating" in a literal instant.
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Aug 5, 2020 18:44
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Open any soda bottle and take a breath from it and you'll get an idea. I don't recommend it, but I've done it a few times on accident and it loving sucks. It makes you feel like your lungs just went instantly flat for a second.
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Aug 5, 2020 18:57
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zedprime posted:I'm just arguing against the idea that waves rolling over frozen samurai man is somehow my fault for being a bad user who wants pictures of him at an awkward time. 
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Aug 5, 2020 20:52
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zedprime is correct here, reminder that they're arguing against this https://i.imgur.com/D2x6GNu.mp4 being the player's fault.
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Aug 5, 2020 21:07
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Obviously it's not actually the user's fault in any real sense, I just meant that it's a good example of the kind of thing you can easily forget about because you didn't think of anyone doing it. That the world-level water plane is an animated physics-enabled entity that would not fall under any of the usual categories of movable physics objects that could also move you (and which the photo mode therefore freezes) is something that would make any developer go "d'oh, of course, how didn't I think of that" because it's really obvious once you think about it, but it's also not really anything that is broken or not working as it should. In fact, that it is still doing exactly what it should be doing even in photo mode was kind of the problem there. This kind of thing just happens, is all I really meant.
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Aug 5, 2020 21:18
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My most substantial contribution to the forums, starting a multi-day argument 
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Aug 5, 2020 21:20
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Last Chance posted:zedprime is correct here, reminder that they're arguing against this being the player's fault. Literally noone said this. You're both morons.
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Aug 6, 2020 00:46
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Cardiovorax posted:It doesn't even check how much CO2 is in your blood, which is why you can suffocate on inert gases without noticing. It checks how much of it is in your lungs, which are obviously nice and empty of it when you keep exhaling it all. The chemoreceptors for that are in your brainstem, aorta, and carotid/jugular arteries, not your lungs. You don’t feel it with inert gas because you’re still blowing off CO2 just fine even if you’re not taking in oxygen. The instant feeling you get when you inhale CO2 from a soda bottle or similar are irritant receptors.
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Aug 6, 2020 03:45
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CO2 fear is so fundamentally different from normal fear that people who have the fear regions of their brains excised can still feel it https://www.nature.com/news/researchers-scare-fearless-patients-1.12350
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Aug 6, 2020 06:04
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Tunicate posted:CO2 fear is so fundamentally different from normal fear that people who have the fear regions of their brains excised can still feel it God what did that ethics application look like
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Aug 6, 2020 06:14
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yo can i get my fear regions excised tia
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Aug 6, 2020 09:07
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