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The fact that 2.0 is designed so that it is easy to implement if you already have TAA, combined with the fact that game was made by the people who wrote the engine(therefore plenty of competence) makes it look wholly like a decision born from a deal rather than anything else. Hell even the current mechwarrior developers activated dlss2.0 without problems and they're straight up mediocre at best.
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Aug 5, 2020 18:27
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Honestly it’s kind of funny if the AMD deal is why it doesn’t have DLSS. It’s making your logo when you launch the game translate to “this game will run worse”.
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Aug 5, 2020 18:31
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Also, and we cannot forget this, Hideo Kojima is some kind of weird magician and likely hires other, less camera hungry, weird magicians. MGSV was and is an insane graphical achievement, so he's got some good cooks in that kitchen.
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Aug 5, 2020 18:35
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Ugly In The Morning posted:Honestly it’s kind of funny if the AMD deal is why it doesn’t have DLSS. It’s making your logo when you launch the game translate to “this game will run worse”. When Big Navi launches (in 2044?), I will laugh to see a patch drop that activates DXR.
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Aug 5, 2020 18:39
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NewFatMike posted:Also, and we cannot forget this, Hideo Kojima is some kind of weird magician and likely hires other, less camera hungry, weird magicians. It's criminal what has happened to Fox Engine. That showed incredible promise
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Aug 5, 2020 18:50
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Is fox engine now powering pachinko machines or what 
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Aug 5, 2020 18:55
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Mindblast posted:Is fox engine now powering pachinko machines or what https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=QwkvVWTS7OM
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Aug 5, 2020 18:56
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Mindblast posted:Is fox engine now powering pachinko machines or what It was. Konami announced that they were stopping support and switching over to Unreal.
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Aug 5, 2020 18:57
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Konami kept using Fox Engine for the Pro Evolution Soccer games, but its being retired in favour of Unreal Engine next year. e;fb
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Aug 5, 2020 18:57
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Konami is like valve, they no longer make games, they make money. Their slot machines are just physical.
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Aug 5, 2020 19:06
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Ugly In The Morning posted:Honestly it’s kind of funny if the AMD deal is why it doesn’t have DLSS. It’s making your logo when you launch the game translate to “this game will run worse”. “Might as well play it on AMD”
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Aug 5, 2020 19:09
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Aaaaaaaaaa I was joking wattttttttt
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Aug 5, 2020 19:49
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Fox Engine itself was nothing special. What made MGS V so great was art direction. If you look closely at the game it's very clear it's not technically any more impressive than other games of its era, there's no magical way to push out pixels "better" and it's not doing anything fundamentally different than any other open world game. It just looks good, like all of Kojima's games, because he hires good art directors and has an obsessive eye for detail and avoiding the little failures that make you notice the weak points. Also Konami is making more money off gaming than ever, they really aren't a pachinko company. They just aren't making games that WE care about anymore.
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Aug 5, 2020 19:54
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Indiana_Krom posted:A bit of digging around says delidding and replacing with liquid metal gets a 4-7C improvement (according to silicon lottery). Nothing like the 20-25C improvement possible from replacing the paste in earlier generations. It isn't just the solder, basically the whole stack is too thick including the heat spreader. The 9900k pushes close to 200w through the die which is tiny, and everything between it and the coolant basically becomes an insulator at that point. Not only that but the IHS itself on a lot of 9900K chips wasn't as flat/level as it should be so temps would be all over the place. Pretty sure Gamers Nexus and/or JayzTwoCents toyed with delidding & found out doing a decent lap on the IHS itself can lower temps 5-10 degrees easily without worrying about damage to the die.
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Aug 5, 2020 20:08
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With dlss, I suspect while the engineering costs may be low there are still significant QA and UX that needs to go into it. While adoption shouldn't be a huge deal I don't think it'll be as easy as "everyone will do it" as might be implied.
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Aug 5, 2020 20:18
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K8.0 posted:Fox Engine itself was nothing special. What made MGS V so great was art direction. If you look closely at the game it's very clear it's not technically any more impressive than other games of its era, there's no magical way to push out pixels "better" and it's not doing anything fundamentally different than any other open world game. It just looks good, like all of Kojima's games, because he hires good art directors and has an obsessive eye for detail and avoiding the little failures that make you notice the weak points. Which is fine, allegedly Sony is in talks to acquire or license several stagnant properties that We care about.
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Aug 5, 2020 20:22
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K8.0 posted:Fox Engine itself was nothing special. What made MGS V so great was art direction. If you look closely at the game it's very clear it's not technically any more impressive than other games of its era, there's no magical way to push out pixels "better" and it's not doing anything fundamentally different than any other open world game. It just looks good, like all of Kojima's games, because he hires good art directors and has an obsessive eye for detail and avoiding the little failures that make you notice the weak points. i hope everyone in this thread has read it already but here's a breakdown of the rendering techniques fox engine uses http://www.adriancourreges.com/blog/2017/12/15/mgs-v-graphics-study/ It actually does a lot to enable art directors to control the final look of the game, even though the rendering technologies are standard
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Aug 5, 2020 20:34
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It does seem quite full featured for the era
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Aug 5, 2020 20:51
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K8.0 posted:Fox Engine itself was nothing special. What made MGS V so great was art direction. If you look closely at the game it's very clear it's not technically any more impressive than other games of its era, there's no magical way to push out pixels "better" and it's not doing anything fundamentally different than any other open world game. It just looks good, like all of Kojima's games, because he hires good art directors and has an obsessive eye for detail and avoiding the little failures that make you notice the weak points. Back in 2013 it was extraordinarily impressive though, and demonstrated its scalability extremely well by running MGSV on 360 and PS3.The difference between 4 and 5 is like night and day. It's just an engine like you said, but it's also a toolset that was clearly giving the developers much more freedom and capability to realize their designs, compared to the engine that was behind MGS4. Because it's only been used once (twice if you count Survive), on a game that was in development since before the current generation of consoles was even available, it is obviously 'nothing special' now. It's a by-gone engine with unrealized promise, which is a shame. Kojima and the gang seem to be doing just fine with Decima now though.
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Aug 5, 2020 21:18
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Jenny Agutter posted:i hope everyone in this thread has read it already but here's a breakdown of the rendering techniques fox engine uses http://www.adriancourreges.com/blog/2017/12/15/mgs-v-graphics-study/ It actually does a lot to enable art directors to control the final look of the game, even though the rendering technologies are standard This is fantastic, I don’t know how I missed it. Thank you!
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Aug 5, 2020 22:12
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If you found that interesting, he did studies of Doom 2016 and GTA5 as well http://www.adriancourreges.com/blog/2016/09/09/doom-2016-graphics-study/ http://www.adriancourreges.com/blog/2015/11/02/gta-v-graphics-study/
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Aug 5, 2020 22:17
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NewFatMike posted:Also, and we cannot forget this, Hideo Kojima is some kind of weird magician and likely hires other, less camera hungry, weird magicians. This is the same engine. It’s clearly a result of a deal.
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Aug 5, 2020 23:46
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Will there be a DLSS 3.0 anytime soon and will it be supported by 2000 series cards?
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Aug 6, 2020 00:35
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some youtube rumour man said dlss 3.0 is coming with ampere but he also said a bunch of other poo poo that sounds like bullshit so probably not
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Aug 6, 2020 00:41
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MLID is an odd channel - 70K subscribers and his videos get <100K views. Can't imagine it's worth his time. He should pivot to InfoWars-style conspiracy theories; that seems the way to get eyeballs these days.
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Aug 6, 2020 01:10
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i doubt there will be a clear-cut 3.0 update anyway, they only did the 2.0 relaunch because the dlss brand was tainted by earlier versions and so the massive improvement they shipped with wolfenstein flew under the radar. they slapped a new name on it to get people paying attention again. they can just do incremental improvements now, like the sharpness control in the new watch dogs game
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Aug 6, 2020 01:30
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shrike82 posted:MLID is an odd channel - 70K subscribers and his videos get <100K views. Can't imagine it's worth his time. He should pivot to InfoWars-style conspiracy theories; that seems the way to get eyeballs these days. Dude said he quit his job to do this full time so who knows.
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Aug 6, 2020 01:35
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If Nvidia ever update DLSS in a significant way, they should just go with DLSS 2.1 or something else, because people are going to be way too confused otherwise. DLSS 2.0 basically means "DLSS that actually works" now, and we saw so little use of the original DLSS 1.0 that we can probablys still use DLSS as shorthand now.
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Aug 6, 2020 01:51
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It's not like DLSS2 has significant support right now so I'm not sure the version numbering matters. It's surprising how few games support it - not much heard about upcoming games e.g., Microsoft Flight Sim, AC: Valhalla etc.
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Aug 6, 2020 01:59
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I think Watchdogs and Cyberpunk are the only major upcoming games confirmed to have it, but Cyberpunk is probably the most hyped game of the year so that's a pretty huge win for Nvidia
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Aug 6, 2020 02:02
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tbh those are the only two non Nintendo games i am even vaguely anticipating at this point
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Aug 6, 2020 03:01
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repiv posted:If you found that interesting, he did studies of Doom 2016 and GTA5 as well Fantastic! I haven’t been in the guts of a rendering pipeline in like 5 years, so this is all warm nostalgia and happiness.
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Aug 6, 2020 05:18
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SwissArmyDruid posted:Which is fine, allegedly Sony is in talks to acquire or license several stagnant properties that We care about. which would rule, it's a good property that didn't get as much exposure until maybe Blood Curse due to how terrifically jank it was
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Aug 6, 2020 07:50
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Cyberpunk inevitably running at 8k with a bunch of raytracing bells and whistles on a 3080/3090 via DLSS is going to move a bunch of cards for sure, I do hope developers and nvidia alike try more to get DLSS more widespread. And for AMD to actually do something about it for once.
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Aug 6, 2020 08:58
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Could someone explain how DLSS works beyond machine learning black box technology, cause it sounds like magic. I'd think it was too good to be true if not for the evidence. Maybe an example of some artifacting mistake might show what it's trying to do.
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Aug 6, 2020 09:07
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Rinkles posted:Could someone explain how DLSS works beyond machine learning black box technology, cause it sounds like magic. I'd think it was too good to be true if not for the evidence. Maybe an example of some artifacting mistake might show what it's trying to do. The best way to describe DLSS is that it's a very advanced form of hardware up-conversion. When using DLSS, you're actually playing in a much lower native resolution (which doesn't tax the GPU as much as it normally would), but the  tensor cores then scale that lower resolution up to your chosen/native resolution, and using that aforementioned ML magic, also takes most of the noise and "jaggies" out of the end result. In the olden days, you had to make a GPU work much harder to output native resolution *plus* tack on post-processing to make it look better.Right now, nVidia has a killer app in DLSS, but I'd imagine ~eventually~, as CPU (and GPU) core counts continue to increase with most consumers having gently caress all to do with them, you'll see an open-source initiative to copy the "essence" of DLSS as best it can be using the resources of unused cores elsewhere in the system, even if they aren't specifically tailored for the workload. BIG HEADLINE fucked around with this message at 09:19 on Aug 6, 2020 |
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Aug 6, 2020 09:17
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Rinkles posted:Could someone explain how DLSS works beyond machine learning black box technology, cause it sounds like magic. I'd think it was too good to be true if not for the evidence. Maybe an example of some artifacting mistake might show what it's trying to do. My understanding is that the problem with traditional upscaling is that if you start from a lower/smaller resolution, you're always going to lose some detail from pixels that literally are not there. DLSS uses AI mumbo-jumbo to be able to infer this detail that otherwise didn't or wouldn't exist. The other thing that DLSS does is that it's better able to tell which parts of an image represent an edge of an object or a surface, something that Temporal Anti-Aliasing struggles with.
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Aug 6, 2020 09:19
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https://youtu.be/9ggro8CyZK4 I like this look at DLSS.
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Aug 6, 2020 09:22
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Another "secret sauce" aspect of DLSS 2.0 is that nVidia can bake profiles for DLSS-supporting games into new driver releases that give the GPU a better framework to go by.
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Aug 6, 2020 09:24
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Some questions about watercooling, if I may: This card looks like it comes with a small radiator that cools the GPU, and the VRAM is air-cooled. Is this considered an AIO, or is it somewhere in-between? However, this card appears to be a fully-watercooled option, but doesn't appear to come with a radiator or hoses. I imagine I would have to source those myself? And if I did that, would that be considered a "custom loop" at that point? I'm mostly interested in the terminology to see if I'm using it correctly; either option is probably within the realm of my mechanical aptitude, and I could probably be talked into either when the 3080 drops, depending on what's available. Is one cooling solution above noticeably better than the other?
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Aug 6, 2020 09:31
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