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The Sausages posted:... "Israel Energy Weapons did this" ... Most weapons are energy weapons.
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Aug 6, 2020 05:25
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The Sausages posted:, why the heck is wackjob contrarian conspiracy bullshit so mainstream nowadays? social media, engagement metrics, commoditization of attention, etc *cricket noises* uhhh i mean the illuminati are preparing us to accept them when they reveal themselves as global saviors *i am instantly destroyed by a firehose-esque stream of likes and retweets*
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Aug 6, 2020 05:29
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The Sausages posted:Also I can't browse twitter about lebanon without some bullshit about "Israel Energy Weapons did this" bullshit popping up, why the heck is wackjob contrarian conspiracy bullshit so mainstream nowadays? The charitable part of me says that many conspiracy theories exist because the idea of living in a world that has occasional random unstoppable disasters is, well, terrifying. Some people would rather believe that these things are all planned by a shadowy cabal, and happened as part of an intentional plot, because the horrible things are a bit less frightening if they happened for a reason. Someone is in charge of it all. Perhaps more importantly, if the cabal is doing these things on purpose, you might be able to protect yourself by staying out of their sights. It's paralyzing to think that I could get killed in a terrorist attack like 9/11 -- but if I believe that the buildings were actually full of frozen dead bodies and exploded on purpose and the planes were remote-controlled drones, well, then average people like me aren't really in danger. In a world that is increasingly unstable and frightening, it's perhaps reassuring to believe that everything is happening for a hidden reason and it's not as bad as it seems. The curmudgeonly part of me says that people are just dumb as poo poo.
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Aug 6, 2020 05:31
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Sagebrush posted:The charitable part of me says that many conspiracy theories exist because the idea of living in a world that has occasional random unstoppable disasters is, well, terrifying. ¿Por qué no los dos?
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Aug 6, 2020 05:34
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“The main thing that I learned about conspiracy theory is that conspiracy theorists actually believe in a conspiracy because that is more comforting. The truth of the world is that it is chaotic. The truth is, that it is not the Jewish banking conspiracy or the grey aliens or the 12 foot reptiloids from another dimension that are in control. The truth is more frightening, nobody is in control. The world is rudderless.”
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Aug 6, 2020 05:44
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Platystemon posted:“The main thing that I learned about conspiracy theory is that conspiracy theorists actually believe in a conspiracy because that is more comforting. The truth of the world is that it is chaotic. The truth is, that it is not the Jewish banking conspiracy or the grey aliens or the 12 foot reptiloids from another dimension that are in control. The truth is more frightening, nobody is in control. The world is rudderless.”
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Aug 6, 2020 05:50
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Sagebrush posted:The charitable part of me says that many conspiracy theories exist because the idea of living in a world that has occasional random unstoppable disasters is, well, terrifying. Some people would rather believe that these things are all planned by a shadowy cabal, and happened as part of an intentional plot, because the horrible things are a bit less frightening if they happened for a reason. Someone is in charge of it all. Perhaps more importantly, if the cabal is doing these things on purpose, you might be able to protect yourself by staying out of their sights. It's paralyzing to think that I could get killed in a terrorist attack like 9/11 -- but if I believe that the buildings were actually full of frozen dead bodies and exploded on purpose and the planes were remote-controlled drones, well, then average people like me aren't really in danger. In a world that is increasingly unstable and frightening, it's perhaps reassuring to believe that everything is happening for a hidden reason and it's not as bad as it seems. It makes enough sense that people fall for conspiracy theories with zero evidence, what really I don't get is how it flipped from being a few basement dwelling cranks circlejerking about UFOs and the president, into boomers and randoms parroting literal schizophrenic nazis who fit literally everything into the conspiracy. Though this might be a factor too. Why question the complex (but not really) business decisions & regulatory failures that led to this when you can just blame a nebulous "them"? Same goes with people looking at elevated levels of pollutants and blaming government mind control chemtrails rather than, you know, actual polluters? Why have a fixable problem that can be addressed with the appropriate regulatory frameworks and enforcement strategies when you can just simultaneously pretend that nothing can be done about it but also somehow everything will be ok if everybody learns the "truth"? Every single step that led to this explosion was avertable at some stage. The Sausages fucked around with this message at 05:54 on Aug 6, 2020 |
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Aug 6, 2020 05:51
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Sagebrush posted:It's paralyzing to think that I could get killed in a terrorist attack like 9/11 -- Which is a doubly mindbending source of conspiracy theories, because there actually was a conspiracy, by a small group of Islamic extremists to fly loving jetliners into landmarks, you can't make that poo poo up. But there must always be deeper conspiracy to unravel to make people feel special.
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Aug 6, 2020 05:56
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The Lone Badger posted:I would try to pose in a way that will leave a humorous diarama. 
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Aug 6, 2020 06:00
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AlexanderCA posted:Which is a doubly mindbending source of conspiracy theories, because there actually was a conspiracy, by a small group of Islamic extremists to fly loving jetliners into landmarks, you can't make that poo poo up. But there must always be deeper conspiracy to unravel to make people feel special. I think it's less about feeling special and more just plain old fear. Awareness of that particular conspiracy -- "there are extremists in the world who might suddenly murder me for absolutely no reason within my control" -- is plenty terrifying on its own. Not a good one to believe in. Better to imagine that it's just a big arrangement by the Jews and the CIA and Dick Cheney and since you're not associated with any of that you won't be caught up in it.
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Aug 6, 2020 06:11
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It was a race to see who could blow their load first
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Aug 6, 2020 06:20
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Sagebrush posted:I think it's less about feeling special and more just plain old fear. Awareness of that particular conspiracy -- "there are extremists in the world who might suddenly murder me for absolutely no reason within my control" -- is plenty terrifying on its own. Not a good one to believe in. Better to imagine that it's just a big arrangement by the Jews and the CIA and Dick Cheney and since you're not associated with any of that you won't be caught up in it. One of the key points of evidence for this hypothesis is that they’re always going on about “crisis actors”. Excuse me, but what? Why do “they” not just murder some people for real?
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Aug 6, 2020 06:27
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The Lone Badger posted:I would try to pose in a way that will leave a humorous diarama. Make sure to record your final thoughts on a nearby notepad, and put two clips of ammo in your desk drawer
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Aug 6, 2020 06:34
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Fair enough, I'm a bit biased because purely anecdotally my last IRL interaction with a conspiracy theorist was a sports instructor imparting his "wisdom" on young adults who didn't know better. Very much biggening himself up in a "let me tell you how the world really works" "It's run by a few all powerful families such as the Rothschilds, I know this because I lived over there (America) for 6 months, yet the term electoral college is unknown to me because I barely speak English."
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Aug 6, 2020 06:42
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Sagebrush posted:I think it's less about feeling special and more just plain old fear. Awareness of that particular conspiracy -- "there are extremists in the world who might suddenly murder me for absolutely no reason within my control" -- is plenty terrifying on its own. Not a good one to believe in. Better to imagine that it's just a big arrangement by the Jews and the CIA and Dick Cheney and since you're not associated with any of that you won't be caught up in it. I feel it's more about trust, or lack there-of. Conspiracy theorists distrust the government, the media, or any type of "expert", and instead trust their own sources. This is why presenting them with facts doesn't work - they don't trust your information. Not only that, it's a positive feedback loop. They consider your efforts to disprove them as further evidence that you're either (a) a know-nothing rube or (b) part of the conspiracy. If you're already suspicious of CNN, them telling you the earth is round is just more proof that they're in on it.  Losing someone's trust can make a theorist turn on them. In that Flat Earther documentary there was a woman called Patricia (or Felicia or something) who was a darling of the community, but as soon as she stepped out of favor for whatever reason, the community became suspicious and lost trust in her. The crazypants started accusing her of being a CIA plant because... her name ended with the letters "cia". The lack-of-trust thing explains why social media is such a boon to whatever powers are trying to dismantle the US, and why conspiracy theories have exploded in volume. People tend to trust what their social network friends & communities tell them, so they'll believe any old poo poo passed to them on Facebook. Trump's demonization of the media (and experts in general) also fuels this. Lack-of-trust also explains why conspiracy theorists tend to go all in on many theories. It's never just one, they always believe a bunch of different ones. Because once you distrust experts, any theory is fair game to believe.
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Aug 6, 2020 07:44
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I mean there's a lot of rich monied people on TV telling us to chill all the time, so I'm not sure they're WRONG about the rich controlling everything, just the level of cooperation. Don't forget Russia has specifically been recruiting online trolls to man cyber- and psy-ops and their billionaires own a not-insignificant share of internet media, including advertising and analytics firms.
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Aug 6, 2020 07:51
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Conspiracies let you imagine that the very real injustices that you can see or experience yourself are due to a small group that could be conceivably removed, rather than because the entire economic system has been set up to create and perpetuate these injustices.
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Aug 6, 2020 07:53
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The Lone Badger posted:I would try to pose in a way that will leave a humorous diarama. 
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Aug 6, 2020 07:55
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Aug 6, 2020 07:57
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"Recently remodeled, with great ocean views!"
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Aug 6, 2020 08:19
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Platystemon posted:One of the key points of evidence for this hypothesis is that they’re always going on about “crisis actors”. For real - you are a powerful cabal that controls world affairs but instead of actually killing a bunch of people, like every other state government/organized crime syndicate/etc., you're just going to use a bunch of flaky actors that couldn't keep themselves from spilling the beans about their extra-marital affair on Twitter?
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Aug 6, 2020 08:29
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Super Soaker Party! posted:"Recently remodeled, with great ocean views!" Recently expanded ocean views That's a hell of a crater
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Aug 6, 2020 08:35
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https://twitter.com/tobiaschneider/status/1290716494528155648 https://twitter.com/tobiaschneider/status/1290922893342375938 https://www.aljazeera.com/news/2020/08/anger-rises-lebanon-investigation-probes-beirut-explosion-200805191032840.html quote:A top-trending hashtag in Lebanon on Wednesday was #علقوا_المشانق, or "hang up the nooses". quote:Public Works Minister Michel Najjar told Al Jazeera that he had only found out about the presence of the explosive material stashed in Beirut's port 11 days before the explosion, through a report given to him by the country's Supreme Defense Council. He had taken over the post six months earlier. quote:Public documents verified by Al Jazeera show that Lebanese Customs sent six letters to the Beirut Urgent Matters Judge between 2014 and 2017, urging the judge to get rid of the "dangerous" material by either exporting it, re-selling it or handing it to the Army. "your honor please do something about the massive impounded fertilizer bomb down by the grain silo that feeds 80% of the country" "naaaah you deal with it" https://siberiantimes.com/other/oth...port-of-beirut/ quote:The ship called Rhosus was going under the flag of Moldova from Batumi in Georgia to Mozambique. It was detained in October 2013 by Lebanese authorities after it stopped in Beirut due to a malfunction on board. C.M. Kruger fucked around with this message at 09:19 on Aug 6, 2020 |
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Aug 6, 2020 09:16
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First pictures emerge of a Russian man whose ammonium nitrate cargo detonated in the port of Beirut Emotions are probably running pretty high right now, he might want to avoid motorcycle rides for a while.
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Aug 6, 2020 09:24
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I mean, sure, people are probably looking for a scapegoat...but he really isn't it. It sounds like his ship's cargo was impounded seven years ago and the Lebanese government just let it sit there in the warehouse the whole time, despite the dock authorities repeatedly asking to have it moved somewhere safer or given to the army. There's no indication that the cargo was unusually unsafe for what it was at the time it was unloaded. He's about as responsible for the explosion as a gas station attendant is for a car crash. It's lovely to publicize him this way.
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Aug 6, 2020 09:36
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So what we have here is a tragedy of neglect: the original owner, the government bureaucracy and the judicial apparatus all just gave up on doing anything at all. It's frightening to consider that neglect and carelessness can be much more harmful than actual malicious terror organizations.
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Aug 6, 2020 09:37
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Sagebrush posted:He's about as responsible for the explosion as a gas station attendant is for a car crash. It's lovely to publicize him this way. Is he paying you to post this?
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Aug 6, 2020 09:39
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No, I just think that the guy who delivered the dangerous but legal cargo which was then confiscated and improperly stored, out of his control, for years until it exploded doesn't bear any responsibility for the incident. And I think it's lovely to set an internet mob on the guy by writing articles that imply he had something to do with it.
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Aug 6, 2020 09:42
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Won't somebody think of the fly-by-night shipping owners??? It's not like they get rich by making all their problems somebody else's or anything
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Aug 6, 2020 09:45
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Memento posted:First pictures emerge of a Russian man whose ammonium nitrate cargo detonated in the port of Beirut Beware of Grechushkins bearing a few thousand tons of fertilizer in a leaky ship flying the flag of a very nearly landlocked country. But do they listen to the priests of Apollo? Noooo.
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Aug 6, 2020 09:46
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Also the bags (assuming the pictures from the warehouse are real) are labeled "Nitroprill". There's a product made by Orica called Nitropril, one L. So there's already something kinda shady going on. The man has to bear at least some responsibility for putting it there in the first place with his failure to maintain his ships, and who knows where it was made and where it was bound. Also, the Lebanese ruling class that have bled the country dry for decades is to blame, the current bureaucrats who have passed the buck for the better part of a decade are to blame, there's plenty of blame to go around here.
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Aug 6, 2020 09:51
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So they seized his boat, and held his crew hostage for years?
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Aug 6, 2020 09:53
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They seized his boat because it was falling apart, part of the crew was imprisoned and then sent home, the rest of the crew stayed on board for a while but were then sent home, the ship and cargo was impounded, then apparently they spent several years trying to chase up the owner for what to do with the cargo because they weren't allowed to just get rid of it. edit: the businessman who owned it claimed he had gone bankrupt, with no evidence to support that provided at the time (late 2013) Memento fucked around with this message at 10:02 on Aug 6, 2020 |
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Aug 6, 2020 09:58
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Sagebrush posted:I mean, sure, people are probably looking for a scapegoat...but he really isn't it. It sounds like his ship's cargo was impounded seven years ago and the Lebanese government just let it sit there in the warehouse the whole time, despite the dock authorities repeatedly asking to have it moved somewhere safer or given to the army. There's no indication that the cargo was unusually unsafe for what it was at the time it was unloaded. Nah. It was his abandoned property and he had the opportunity to fix the issue at any time in the last six years, especially during that first year where the crew was locked up and he wasn’t paying them. He just didn’t give a gently caress. This does not absolve the Lebanese authorities. They’re both fully responsible. Joint and severable liability.
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Aug 6, 2020 10:22
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How much would it have cost to just move the ship to the open ocean and detonate it remotely? I'd like a number of dollars to compare to the number of people hurt so I can get angrier.
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Aug 6, 2020 10:26
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By popular demand posted:How much would it have cost to just move the ship to the open ocean and detonate it remotely? I'd like a number of dollars to compare to the number of people hurt so I can get angrier. Why not just sell the stuff on the open market, for its intended purpose, i.e., as loving fertilizer?
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Aug 6, 2020 10:33
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I'm not 100% on this but googling the product name told me it was specifically formulated as an explosive, which is probably harder to find legitimate buyers for.
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Aug 6, 2020 10:53
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Yeah Nitropril is a common explosive specifically designed for mining. This stuff was made in Georgia, headed for Mozambique, probably to end up at mines in the Central African Copperbelt. If you have a legit store of it, you can very easily find licensed, responsible operators to take it off your hands. The thing is, none of them are going to look at bags of Nitroprill and think anything other than "what's this knock-off poo poo, no thank you". And no one at all is going to want it after a few years sitting in a damp warehouse in Lebanon. https://twitter.com/ArmsControlWonk/status/1290795532701425664
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Aug 6, 2020 10:58
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Nocheez posted:Pfft, look at you newbs running away from explosions. I light a cigarette and stroll away with my shades on. If you act like the blast can't hurt you, then it can't hurt you. I will just find the nearest grain silo and stand on the other side. I'm untouchable now.
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Aug 6, 2020 11:02
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So who in Mozambique circa 2014 would have bought 2700 tons of counterfeit Georgian ammonium nitrate used for mining explosives and then just write it off after it gets seized because the sketchy Russian shipping company was cutting corners on maintenance? From what I can find, back in 2018 28% ammonium-urea fertilizer was running like $280/ton so 2700 tons of the stuff would be close to a million dollars, so it's not like it's just a bunch of bauxite ore or jute rope or whatever where it wouldn't be economical to try and get it back. https://clubofmozambique.com/news/b...te-lusa-167926/ quote:Cornelder, the managing company of the port of Beira, told Lusa on Wednesday that it had never been notified of the operation of a ship containing 2,750 tonnes of ammonium nitrate destined for Mozambique, a cargo that may have caused the explosions in Lebanon.
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Aug 6, 2020 11:08
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