Irish Politics 2020: come out you leo stans & fight me like a man

The Something Awful Forums > Discussion > Debate & Discussion > Irish Politics 2020: come out you leo stans & fight me like a man

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Guavanaut: Nov 27, 2009; Looking At Them Tittys
1969 - 1998; Toilet Rascal

Just stick a bunch of these into schools, what could go wrong.

# ? Aug 6, 2020 09:57

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# ? Jun 3, 2024 07:40

Blut: Sep 11, 2009; if someone is in the bottom 10%~ of a guillotine

The average class size in Denmark is 21, in Ireland its 24. Ireland doesn't have some unique Victorian-era 60 kids to a class room schooling system.

Scandinavia (Sweden aside) has had some of the lowest per capita death rates from corona of any European countries, and have handled their reopenings in a very evidence based manner. They've handled it well by any metric. And even outside of corona generally they're generally some of the best run countries in the world. So its a useful nearby European region to point to for copying best practice methods that have been proven to work - in this case schools having been open since April.

If you don't like Scandinavia for some reason though then plenty of other countries that have handled the virus well have also done similar months ago - Taiwan, South Korea etc.

Essentially, we have plenty of real world evidence from many many other countries at this stage that reopening schools isn't a problem. And on top of that we have plenty of evidence that keeping kids out of school for lengthy periods of time is absolutely disastrous for their intellectual development. So theres no absolutely no evidence based reason to keep them closed.

# ? Aug 6, 2020 11:24

Mackers: Jan 16, 2012

Blut posted:

And on top of that we have plenty of evidence that keeping kids out of school for lengthy periods of time is absolutely disastrous for their intellectual development. So theres no absolutely no evidence based reason to keep them closed.

aside from like, the ongoing highly contagious plague and mass death I guess?

never gonna understand this

# ? Aug 6, 2020 11:38

Blut: Sep 11, 2009; if someone is in the bottom 10%~ of a guillotine

Mackers posted:

aside from like, the ongoing highly contagious plague and mass death I guess?

never gonna understand this

None of the countries which have opened their schools have had "mass death" result from it. The schools have been open for months now with no negative effects.

# ? Aug 6, 2020 11:50

Mackers: Jan 16, 2012

Blut posted:

None of the countries which have opened their schools have had "mass death" result from it. The schools have been open for months now with no negative effects.

well i hope you're right because this poo poo seems to be going ahead regardless of how absolutely baffling it seems

# ? Aug 6, 2020 11:56

crispix: Mar 28, 2015; Grand-Maman m'a raconté
_{(Les éditions des amitiés franco-québécoises)}

Hello, dear

Guavanaut posted:

Just stick a bunch of these into schools, what could go wrong.

RIGHT the NEXT time someone draws a... a... depiction of the male genitalia on the robit there is going to be serious consequences :mad:

!!!!!

# ? Aug 6, 2020 12:55

SuperiorColliculus: Oct 31, 2011

Blut posted:

None of the countries which have opened their schools have had "mass death" result from it. The schools have been open for months now with no negative effects.

How many dead children is too many in your opinion? 1? 5? 100?

# ? Aug 6, 2020 13:47

The Question IRL: Jun 8, 2013; Only two contestants left! Here is Doom's chance for revenge...

While children are absolutely something to be concerned about, I think the health and wellbeing of the teachers is something else.

I mean, let's suppose that kids are at less risk from Coronavirus*.

The teachers aren't at any less risk. And risking their lives because mommy and daddy are tired of their kids being at home and need to go back to work comes across as pretty bad.

* = At the moment I don't think there is concrete evidence that children can't or won't spread the virus.

# ? Aug 6, 2020 14:13

Mackers: Jan 16, 2012

The Question IRL posted:

While children are absolutely something to be concerned about, I think the health and wellbeing of the teachers is something else.

I mean, let's suppose that kids are at less risk from Coronavirus*.

The teachers aren't at any less risk. And risking their lives because mommy and daddy are tired of their kids being at home and need to go back to work comes across as pretty bad.

* = At the moment I don't think there is concrete evidence that children can't or won't spread the virus.

yeah i've had to listen to people going on about how "the teachers are always whining!" and there's just no talking to them. its madness

# ? Aug 6, 2020 14:20

Shoehead: Sep 28, 2005; Wassup, Choom?
Ya need sumthin'?

Yeah we'll run out of teachers way before we have any kind of student mega-death.

# ? Aug 6, 2020 14:48

MrNemo: Aug 26, 2010; "I just love beeting off"

Thing is there's clear evidence that kids missing out socialisation had negative long term impacts. Kids being taught entirely distance learning with little appropriate preparation are likely to also have some negative learning outcomes. Parents not able to work remotely are going to be limited in their ability to work, in lower income households or single parent ones that is going to have a big impact.

Obviously those impacts need to be balanced against the health worries of the virus pandemic for the kids and health concerns for teachers. Not to go all Ladder curve but there is a point where reopening schools is going to be the less harmful option and that will be a point before the virus is eliminated (never) or a reliable vaccine is made available. If 0 risk is your requirement then you are going to be accepting greater risk and harms from school shut down such as higher rates of behavioural disorders through lack of socialisation or slowed development for younger people.

If other countries with similar levels of spread have reopened without disaster then you've got to make a pretty good argument why Ireland should accept the harm from school closures continue. Strongly different reopening approaches or a wholly different education system would be enough but it doesn't sound like Ireland is radically different from the Nordics in terms of class sizes or facilities.

# ? Aug 6, 2020 15:30

Blut: Sep 11, 2009; if someone is in the bottom 10%~ of a guillotine

SuperiorColliculus posted:

How many dead children is too many in your opinion? 1? 5? 100?

There've been 0 deaths of children who've caught corona in a school since reopenings in Denmark. Or Norway. So... 0? Theres literally no medical evidence that justifies keeping schools closed like. Its all very Helen Lovejoy to just demand they stay closed, with no factual basis for doing so.

Basically, as MrNemo outlines, if you want Ireland to follow a radically different (more conservative) approach than our European peers and keep schools closed indefinitely then there needs to be medical evidence to justify this. And none has been given at any stage.

For teachers the risk profile is different, thats fair. Any teacher in a high risk group, or over 55, should probably be allowed opt out. But thats not an insurmountable obstacle to getting schools open. Or certainly shouldn't have been, if work had started on this in May...

# ? Aug 6, 2020 15:47

V. Illych L.: Apr 11, 2008; ASK ME ABOUT LUMBER

starting that sort of work in may would've been pretty premature imo - we know much more now than we did then

# ? Aug 6, 2020 16:00

SuperiorColliculus: Oct 31, 2011

Blut posted:

Basically, as MrNemo outlines, if you want Ireland to follow a radically different (more conservative) approach than our European peers and keep schools closed indefinitely then there needs to be medical evidence to justify this...

You mean medical evidence like the potentially deadly virus with unknown long-term health effects currently doing a world pandemic tour?

There�s inconclusive evidence that it�s super harmful to children, but plenty of evidence that children can acquire, shed, and spread the virus. Children don�t live in bubbles where they never have contact with adults

# ? Aug 6, 2020 16:37

Ghost Leviathan: Mar 2, 2017; Exploration is ill-advised.

Like the whole thing every parent learns the hard way is that kids eagerly spread every imaginable disease to and from their schools. They're already perfect infection vectors.

# ? Aug 6, 2020 16:42

Pookah: Aug 21, 2008; 🪶Caw🪶

Shoehead posted:

There's your problem

e: poo poo I'm just remembering how loving overcrowded my secondary school was. Like student to teacher was in the 30s but we also had an issue were the corridors in the building were genuinly not big enough to walk 4 abreast down. Which was a huge issue because every classroom was locked when not in use so between classes you would have a whole class lined up beside a door on either side and two directions of traffic in between and whatever messing was going on thrown in there too while about 500 kids tried to get wherever. Throwing a possibly fatal respiratory virus into that situation is going to be hosed up

My school came up with a really tiresome, roundabout one-way system after one of the (non-teaching) nuns staged a very weird silent protest by walking up and down one of the corridors with a homemade stop sign. It was extremely weird because a. it just made people more likely to be late because they had to traipse halfway around the building to get two doors up a corridor, and b. who the hell was this woman and why did she even care??? It was a smallish school, containing a small resident community of nuns and I don't remember ever even seeing her before her one nun protest.

# ? Aug 6, 2020 16:59

Skull Servant: Oct 25, 2009

Blut posted:

There've been 0 deaths of children who've caught corona in a school since reopenings in Denmark. Or Norway. So... 0? Theres literally no medical evidence that justifies keeping schools closed like. Its all very Helen Lovejoy to just demand they stay closed, with no factual basis for doing so.

Basically, as MrNemo outlines, if you want Ireland to follow a radically different (more conservative) approach than our European peers and keep schools closed indefinitely then there needs to be medical evidence to justify this. And none has been given at any stage.

For teachers the risk profile is different, thats fair. Any teacher in a high risk group, or over 55, should probably be allowed opt out. But thats not an insurmountable obstacle to getting schools open. Or certainly shouldn't have been, if work had started on this in May...

I don't know how to explain that it isn't just the children that people are concerned will get sick.

Overall, there seems to be a consensus that children won't die from getting Covid.* Fair enough. If you actually calculate the numbers, assuming we use those average values and assuming that there is only one class per year, your average school is going to have approx 200 students in attendance (Primary school - 8 years worth of classes). Then, if we look at the average children per family rate, 1.38, according to the CSO from 2016, we can establish that a majority of the children in attendance will be of different households. One of these children gets sick and doesn't strictly adhere to social distancing, hand cleanliness, or trades lunches with another child, you have the potential of an outbreak on your hands. That one person can potentially infect 200 people or 145 households.

Yes, that child might not die, but they are taking that illness home to their parents, their parents take it to their work, to their brothers and sisters, their friends, the local shops. These are the people who are more likely to die from Covid. These are the people we are risking by opening schools. Just because children are part of the front line in schools does not mean the decision to open schools is all about them. People interact with children, people interact with people who have kids. Children are far less likely to strictly follow the social distancing rules. They do not fully grasp the severe nature of the pandemic, they do not fully understand the absoluteness of death, and they will act like normal kids when they are with their friends and classmates.

This is all assuming that schools are always going to be places where teachers and students can social distance. There are many, many schools in Ireland which are using buildings which were built in the 1970s, or using parts of buildings that were constructed in the early 1900s or even the mid 1800s. They were not constructed for the number of students currently in attendance, let alone social distancing requirements. These buildings mean there is an increased chance that people will catch the virus.

*Death is not the only issue relating to Covid, and it is irresponsible to narrow the only consequences of the virus to death. People all across the world who are considered recovered still have health issues, breathing issues. Anecdotally, a person in my village caught Covid and was in hospital from April up until last week. His kidneys failed after becoming ill as a direct result of the virus. He will have to live the rest of his life now with kidney issues because of the virus. That isn't even taking into account that he is now using a walking stick to move around, something that wasn't needed before. In many cases, you just don't shake Covid off like a bad cold, you will live the rest of your life with complications caused by the virus. Sure, the kid who catches it from school might not die, but they might struggle to climb stairs at 20 because of lung issues or require constant monitoring of their organs due to damage.

# ? Aug 6, 2020 20:30

Mackers: Jan 16, 2012

Skull Servant posted:

I don't know how to explain that it isn't just the children that people are concerned will get sick.

Overall, there seems to be a consensus that children won't die from getting Covid.* Fair enough. If you actually calculate the numbers, assuming we use those average values and assuming that there is only one class per year, your average school is going to have approx 200 students in attendance (Primary school - 8 years worth of classes). Then, if we look at the average children per family rate, 1.38, according to the CSO from 2016, we can establish that a majority of the children in attendance will be of different households. One of these children gets sick and doesn't strictly adhere to social distancing, hand cleanliness, or trades lunches with another child, you have the potential of an outbreak on your hands. That one person can potentially infect 200 people or 145 households.

Yes, that child might not die, but they are taking that illness home to their parents, their parents take it to their work, to their brothers and sisters, their friends, the local shops. These are the people who are more likely to die from Covid. These are the people we are risking by opening schools. Just because children are part of the front line in schools does not mean the decision to open schools is all about them. People interact with children, people interact with people who have kids. Children are far less likely to strictly follow the social distancing rules. They do not fully grasp the severe nature of the pandemic, they do not fully understand the absoluteness of death, and they will act like normal kids when they are with their friends and classmates.

This is all assuming that schools are always going to be places where teachers and students can social distance. There are many, many schools in Ireland which are using buildings which were built in the 1970s, or using parts of buildings that were constructed in the early 1900s or even the mid 1800s. They were not constructed for the number of students currently in attendance, let alone social distancing requirements. These buildings mean there is an increased chance that people will catch the virus.

*Death is not the only issue relating to Covid, and it is irresponsible to narrow the only consequences of the virus to death. People all across the world who are considered recovered still have health issues, breathing issues. Anecdotally, a person in my village caught Covid and was in hospital from April up until last week. His kidneys failed after becoming ill as a direct result of the virus. He will have to live the rest of his life now with kidney issues because of the virus. That isn't even taking into account that he is now using a walking stick to move around, something that wasn't needed before. In many cases, you just don't shake Covid off like a bad cold, you will live the rest of your life with complications caused by the virus. Sure, the kid who catches it from school might not die, but they might struggle to climb stairs at 20 because of lung issues or require constant monitoring of their organs due to damage.

well put

like even if kids are somewhat resistant to the virus, every one of them is goin back to their family at the end of the school day. Combine that with an up to like 2-week asymptomatic period and i think this is loving insane

we'll see i suppose.

# ? Aug 6, 2020 20:41

Blut: Sep 11, 2009; if someone is in the bottom 10%~ of a guillotine

Skull Servant posted:

I don't know how to explain that it isn't just the children that people are concerned will get sick.

Overall, there seems to be a consensus that children won't die from getting Covid.* Fair enough. If you actually calculate the numbers, assuming we use those average values and assuming that there is only one class per year, your average school is going to have approx 200 students in attendance (Primary school - 8 years worth of classes). Then, if we look at the average children per family rate, 1.38, according to the CSO from 2016, we can establish that a majority of the children in attendance will be of different households. One of these children gets sick and doesn't strictly adhere to social distancing, hand cleanliness, or trades lunches with another child, you have the potential of an outbreak on your hands. That one person can potentially infect 200 people or 145 households.

Yes, that child might not die, but they are taking that illness home to their parents, their parents take it to their work, to their brothers and sisters, their friends, the local shops. These are the people who are more likely to die from Covid. These are the people we are risking by opening schools. Just because children are part of the front line in schools does not mean the decision to open schools is all about them. People interact with children, people interact with people who have kids. Children are far less likely to strictly follow the social distancing rules. They do not fully grasp the severe nature of the pandemic, they do not fully understand the absoluteness of death, and they will act like normal kids when they are with their friends and classmates.

This is all assuming that schools are always going to be places where teachers and students can social distance. There are many, many schools in Ireland which are using buildings which were built in the 1970s, or using parts of buildings that were constructed in the early 1900s or even the mid 1800s. They were not constructed for the number of students currently in attendance, let alone social distancing requirements. These buildings mean there is an increased chance that people will catch the virus.

*Death is not the only issue relating to Covid, and it is irresponsible to narrow the only consequences of the virus to death. People all across the world who are considered recovered still have health issues, breathing issues. Anecdotally, a person in my village caught Covid and was in hospital from April up until last week. His kidneys failed after becoming ill as a direct result of the virus. He will have to live the rest of his life now with kidney issues because of the virus. That isn't even taking into account that he is now using a walking stick to move around, something that wasn't needed before. In many cases, you just don't shake Covid off like a bad cold, you will live the rest of your life with complications caused by the virus. Sure, the kid who catches it from school might not die, but they might struggle to climb stairs at 20 because of lung issues or require constant monitoring of their organs due to damage.

None of this has happened in countries that opened schools. You're literally talking in "well this could happen, this might happen, we don't know if this will happen". But we have many many countries that have had schools open for months now, where literally none of this happened.

quote:

But in Denmark, nationwide case numbers continued to decline after day care centers and elementary schools opened on 15 April, and middle and high schools followed in May. In the Netherlands, new cases stayed flat and then dropped after elementary schools opened part-time on 11 May and high schools opened on 2 June. In Finland, Belgium, and Austria, too, officials say they found no evidence of increased spread of the novel coronavirus after schools reopened.

In a broader study of COVID-19 clusters worldwide, epidemiologist Gwen Knight at the London School of Hygiene & Tropical Medicine and her colleagues collected data before most school closings took effect. If schools were a major driver of viral spread, she says, �We would have expected to find more clusters linked to schools. That�s not what we found.�

https://www.sciencemag.org/news/2020/07/school-openings-across-globe-suggest-ways-keep-coronavirus-bay-despite-outbreaks

There are plenty of other studies out there on this by now too. Over 20 countries had reopened their schools by July, and other like Taiwan never even bothered to close them in the first place.

Irish schools, and Irish school children, are not some sui generis creatures different to children across the rest of Europe.

# ? Aug 6, 2020 23:14

Miftan: Mar 31, 2012; Terry knows what he can do with his bloody chocolate orange...

Blut posted:

None of this has happened in countries that opened schools. You're literally talking in "well this could happen, this might happen, we don't know if this will happen". But we have many many countries that have had schools open for months now, where literally none of this happened.

https://www.sciencemag.org/news/2020/07/school-openings-across-globe-suggest-ways-keep-coronavirus-bay-despite-outbreaks

There are plenty of other studies out there on this by now too. Over 20 countries had reopened their schools by July, and other like Taiwan never even bothered to close them in the first place.

Irish schools, and Irish school children, are not some sui generis creatures different to children across the rest of Europe.

And other countries, like Israel, that have similar class sizes to Ireland have opened and had massive spikes. Maybe.. This isn't super simple but opening schools is still very dangerous??

# ? Aug 6, 2020 23:30

Arquinsiel: Jun 1, 2006; "There is no such thing as society. There are individual men and women, and there are families. And no government can do anything except through people, and people must look to themselves first."

God Bless Margaret Thatcher
God Bless England
RIP My Iron Lady

Blut posted:

The average class size in Denmark is 21, in Ireland its 24. Ireland doesn't have some unique Victorian-era 60 kids to a class room schooling system.

Scandinavia (Sweden aside) has had some of the lowest per capita death rates from corona of any European countries, and have handled their reopenings in a very evidence based manner. They've handled it well by any metric. And even outside of corona generally they're generally some of the best run countries in the world. So its a useful nearby European region to point to for copying best practice methods that have been proven to work - in this case schools having been open since April.

If you don't like Scandinavia for some reason though then plenty of other countries that have handled the virus well have also done similar months ago - Taiwan, South Korea etc.

Essentially, we have plenty of real world evidence from many many other countries at this stage that reopening schools isn't a problem. And on top of that we have plenty of evidence that keeping kids out of school for lengthy periods of time is absolutely disastrous for their intellectual development. So theres no absolutely no evidence based reason to keep them closed.

Why the gently caress are you insistent on posting only the dumbest takes? They can open the schools because of all the other poo poo they did right. Which we didn't do. "Opening schools" is not the sole determining factor.

# ? Aug 7, 2020 00:24

Skull Servant: Oct 25, 2009

Blut posted:

None of this has happened in countries that opened schools. You're literally talking in "well this could happen, this might happen, we don't know if this will happen". But we have many many countries that have had schools open for months now, where literally none of this happened.

https://www.sciencemag.org/news/2020/07/school-openings-across-globe-suggest-ways-keep-coronavirus-bay-despite-outbreaks

There are plenty of other studies out there on this by now too. Over 20 countries had reopened their schools by July, and other like Taiwan never even bothered to close them in the first place.

Irish schools, and Irish school children, are not some sui generis creatures different to children across the rest of Europe.

Good job ignoring all of my argument!

Ireland has larger classes, typically more antiquated buildings, and generally less spending on education than other countries that have open. As already mentioned, Israel is seeing a similar spike with similar class sizes on average.

Also Taiwan never needed to close their schools. They had 450 cases since the outbreak started. 7 deaths overall. We have 26k cases and about 1750 deaths overall. Taiwan also has almost 24 million people living in it. They are able to open the schools because their outbreak never hit levels like ours did.

The other two counties that never closed their schools are Nicaragua and Sweden. Why are you not citing those as examples? Countries that have opened schools fall into two categories: they have the virus under control AND have high spending on education or they never closed at all and are taking a general laissez fair approach to the pandemic as a whole. Ireland, overall, does not fall into either of these categories. Cases are on the rise here again and we are average to below average with regards to education spending.

This isn't even considering the fact that we are talking about summer schooling in nearly all of these nations. There are reduced class sizes in addition to their typically smaller on average class sizes. The argument that we can just open up classes is rooted in fundamental misunderstandings of the logistics of how schools operate, especially those outside of our own borders.

# ? Aug 7, 2020 00:25

PowerBeard: Sep 4, 2011

Travel restrictions and closures in Laois, Offaly and Kildare from midnight tonight. Pubs and restaurants to close for 2 weeks unless they do take out, a bunch of sports cancelled, but you can travel there for work...

Well gently caress.

# ? Aug 7, 2020 17:30

Shoehead: Sep 28, 2005; Wassup, Choom?
Ya need sumthin'?

My neighbours have been nonstop partying for the last 2 weeks and I really hope this throws some cold water on it. Those feckers.

People have been takin the piss here in Wicklow but that's not exactly something unique to the lockdown or any period in history

# ? Aug 7, 2020 17:44

cormac: Dec 18, 2005

Blut posted:

None of this has happened in countries that opened schools. You're literally talking in "well this could happen, this might happen, we don't know if this will happen". But we have many many countries that have had schools open for months now, where literally none of this happened.

https://www.sciencemag.org/news/2020/07/school-openings-across-globe-suggest-ways-keep-coronavirus-bay-despite-outbreaks

There are plenty of other studies out there on this by now too. Over 20 countries had reopened their schools by July, and other like Taiwan never even bothered to close them in the first place.

Irish schools, and Irish school children, are not some sui generis creatures different to children across the rest of Europe.

https://www.theguardian.com/world/l...f0803fbf940230e

https://www.irishtimes.com/news/world/middle-east/covid-19-may-spread-more-easily-in-schools-than-thought-us-report-warns-1.4323634

https://www.forbes.com/sites/mattperez/2020/08/05/here-are-the-early-opening-us-school-districts-already-battling-cases-of-the-coronavirus/

https://www.bendigoadvertiser.com.au/story/6866598/st-josephs-primary-school-covid-19-cluster-grows-to-11-people/

https://www.nytimes.com/2020/08/04/world/middleeast/coronavirus-israel-schools-reopen.html

https://fortune.com/2020/07/30/children-covid-carriers-kids-coronavirus-schools-reopening-viral-load-study/

# ? Aug 7, 2020 20:27

Southpaugh: May 26, 2007; Smokey Bacon

Reckon we've less than a month before we are talking seriously about locking back down again. On a national level I mean.

# ? Aug 7, 2020 20:37

OwlFancier: Aug 22, 2013

Lucky you if the government even considers it :v:

# ? Aug 7, 2020 21:36

Southpaugh: May 26, 2007; Smokey Bacon

98 new cases today, seems inevitable. By which I mean unignorable. We don't have the hospital beds.

# ? Aug 7, 2020 23:43

OwlFancier: Aug 22, 2013

Just "fun" to contrast it with the UK, I'm pretty sure they'll just pile the dead in the streets and blame black people or something.

# ? Aug 8, 2020 00:50

Marenghi: Oct 16, 2008; Don't trust the liberals,
they will betray you

It�s a good thing we have a sitting government to deal with this, and that they didn�t all decide to go on a 6 week break.

# ? Aug 8, 2020 01:37

lemonadesweetheart: May 27, 2010

I'm already hearing people here blaming this on the direct provisioning centres and foreigners.

# ? Aug 8, 2020 06:10

Shoehead: Sep 28, 2005; Wassup, Choom?
Ya need sumthin'?

Wasn't it a few clusters from meat packing plants (again)?

# ? Aug 8, 2020 07:40

PowerBeard: Sep 4, 2011

Sure was fun to see bigots crawling out of the woodwork to blame the Direct Provision Centres and foreigners.... :stare:

The DPC's have enacted new protocol where possible of providing rooms for the sick and making sure that they stay isolated. This meant that the previous system of up to 4-5 person (a family room) is no longer allowed and it was lowered to 3 persons max and then staggered, which it really should have been, but they have been operating on poor standards for years.

For the people complaining about seeing "them going to the shops after work and not isolating and why can't they all be held in the DPC to isolate...", DPC's can only hold persons who are sick and can only recommend that those who aren't sick limit their movement just in case. Those who aren't sick are still awaiting their applications for citizenship, so they are allowed to leave to walk around and pick up stuff from the shops like actual human beings, not loving slaves, jesus christ... We had plenty of cases of Irish people just walking around without a care in the world, sick or asymptomatic and going all over the country, but nope, we need to shut down the airports and deal with the foreigners on holidays who only account for 2% of cases...

The clusters in Meat Packing Plants can be attested to several people travelling together for work, but also the poor conditions of the plant where social distancing is impossible and testing is rare at best. Plus it turned out some cases were asymptomatic or that people feared losing their only jobs and kept working, despite being ill.

I sure am glad people are blaming foreigners instead of a system that actively takes advantage of their status and outright disregards the rules because money must flow or some poo poo.

Sorry, just needed to get that off my chest before I snap at some 50 year old mother in the comments section of Laois Today or the Independent.

PowerBeard fucked around with this message at 09:51 on Aug 8, 2020

# ? Aug 8, 2020 09:49

Shoehead: Sep 28, 2005; Wassup, Choom?
Ya need sumthin'?

It looks like some anarchists attacked an antimask protest in town yesterday but my only source of info for it is some dodgy footage, and now that I've gone looking for it it seems like there were at least 3 other daylight brawls in Dublin this week :shepface: