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Who will you vote for in 2020? This poll is closed. |
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| Biden |
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425 | 18.06% |
| Trump |
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105 | 4.46% |
| whoever the Green Party runs |
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307 | 13.05% |
| GOOGLE RON PAUL |
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151 | 6.42% |
| Bernie Sanders |
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346 | 14.70% |
| Stalin |
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246 | 10.45% |
| Satan |
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300 | 12.75% |
| Nobody |
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202 | 8.58% |
| Jess Scarane |
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110 | 4.67% |
| mystery man Brian Carroll of the American Solidarity Party |
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61 | 2.59% |
| Dick Nixon |
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100 | 4.25% |
| Total: | 2089 votes | ||
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Inzombiac posted:People protest-voting for Bernie (whom I support) or writing in Hulk Hogan or whatever are not going to affect any meaningful change. Pretty wild claim that voting Biden will affect meaningful change, considering his very own position is that he would not do so
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Aug 14, 2020 17:23
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spunkshui posted:The only thing I'm worried people are forgetting about is the results of the 2016 election. the ticket is headed by a man who proudly proclaims his intention to give those crazy fucks every inch of ground they ask for, in the name of compromise, op
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Aug 14, 2020 17:24
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Office Pig posted:No she would not. Half the reason why she went down in flames was for immediately backtracking on any semblance of support for one thing while expressing her real views in the presence of friendlier outlets, and that goes for M4A just as much as forced busing, AIPAC and ICE. Her entire gimmick is acting like an obvious snake and being incredibly bad about it, to the point where it's only a mild step up from the belief that a Biden presidency sending storm troopers into the city is all part of some master plan to give them healthcare at gun point. She's probably to the left of Biden but that's just because it's difficult to be a more conservative Dem than Biden if you aren't from a deep red state. Son of Thunderbeast posted:Haha remember when she made that pledge not to go to the AIPAC conference, and instead the AIPAC representatives met her in her office? That was a master class in how to do something that pleases absolutely nobody.
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Aug 14, 2020 17:25
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JT Jag posted:Counterpoint: if Trump wins at all it will lead to the total unmooring of the country from any semblance of democratic representation and the ruination of the country at the hands of religious nutjobs, conspiracy theorists, grifters and the ultra-rich. With Biden you only need to worry about the last two. Stay the course and reluctantly vote Biden. there's no such thing as a reluctant vote
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Aug 14, 2020 17:25
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Her unbridled love for all things law enforcement is possibly more damaging than Trump's "tough guy" attitude. Democrats are going to give her a pass to expand The Patriot Act and we are going to be turbo-hosed. We just won't know it right away.
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Aug 14, 2020 17:26
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Inzombiac posted:Her unbridled love for all things law enforcement is possibly more damaging than Trump's "tough guy" attitude. Democratic mayors and governors are already giving this administration a pass because there's nothing they enjoy more than brutalizing protestors so its just another way nothing would meaningfully change
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Aug 14, 2020 17:27
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literally, there is no such thing as a reluctant vote every vote is the strongest possible endorsement you can make as a private citizen, and is interpreted as such by everyone other than yourself. if you want to make yourself irrelevant, you convince yourself to a reluctant vote never vote for something which you cannot genuinely support on some level, because that is what a vote is
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Aug 14, 2020 17:27
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spunkshui posted:The only thing I'm worried people are forgetting about is the results of the 2016 election. Which is why I specified swing states vs non. If you live in a swing state you have to vote tactically. If you live in a safe state you can do whatever the gently caress, it literally doesn't matter.
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Aug 14, 2020 17:28
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the democrats are pissing on you and what you believe in. they're doing this openly. if you vote for them under these circumstances, you are endorsing that shower of piss. maintain your dignity and keep your watersports private you perverted gently caress
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Aug 14, 2020 17:29
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V. Illych L. posted:literally, there is no such thing as a reluctant vote
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Aug 14, 2020 17:30
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I think every Democratic voter is throwing away their vote. People voting for Joe Biden need to grow up, swallow their pride, and vote for Hawkins because he's Better Than Trump™.
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Aug 14, 2020 17:31
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JT Jag posted:Alright, in that case confidently vote against Trump. I am, I'm voting Howie. But again, there's no checkbox to mark "I'm not voting for Biden, I'm voting against Trump" on your ballot. Your vote for Biden will be considered a full-throated endorsement of his agenda, regardless of how much or how loudly you grumble while you cast it. They can ignore the grumbles because they know you'll never not vote for their guy. After all, the Republican is worse, right?
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Aug 14, 2020 17:34
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Mind_Taker posted:I think every Democratic voter is throwing away their vote. People voting for Joe Biden need to grow up, swallow their pride, and vote for Hawkins because he's Better Than Trump™.
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Aug 14, 2020 17:34
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Inzombiac posted:Her unbridled love for all things law enforcement is possibly more damaging than Trump's "tough guy" attitude. That is how fascism works essentially. In every country where this sort of thing happens, it is very gradual and over a long period of time. It takes years of slow careful propaganda, othering minority groups, creating enemies that don't really exist, and then passing laws that are designed to control everyone. That is happening in the United States right now. Whether we are under Biden, or Trump, I don't think the U.S. will have a democratic voting system by 2030, but something really close to a dictatorship.
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Aug 14, 2020 17:34
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Vote for Howie or Gloria La Riva. It's easy.
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Aug 14, 2020 17:34
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JT Jag posted:The Green Party has no actual path to the White House because of First Past The Post and until that changes it's a wasted vote unless you live in a solidly blue state anyway. I need to have something to vote for; not just voting against the other guy. Getting a third party over the 5% mark is a worthy goal, which is why I intend to help the Greens.
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Aug 14, 2020 17:35
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JT Jag posted:The Green Party has no actual path to the White House because of First Past The Post and until that changes it's a wasted vote unless you live in a solidly blue state anyway. The Green Party will win if Biden voters just consolidate around Hawkins. It's a shame that Biden voters are too immature to keep their egos in check.
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Aug 14, 2020 17:35
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Mind_Taker posted:I think every Democratic voter is throwing away their vote. People voting for Joe Biden need to grow up, swallow their pride, and vote for Hawkins because he's Better Than Trump™. I am considering just leaving the president part of the ballot blank (I live in WA State), but ultimately if Americans want actual change, there is absolutely nothing stopping people from collectively voting 3rd party. The idea that this is a 2 party system really comes off as a myth to me. Every current party is represented on the ballot, if people don't want to vote for those people, then that is on them. We are forcing ourselves into the two worst parties by choice.
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Aug 14, 2020 17:36
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When Trump does something bad, which seems to be nearly everyday, it hits the news cycle and every liberal on the planet is incensed by it even if they don't know why. It does not, in turn, hearten me that it seems that Democrats cannot be criticized as such. It doesn't lend any credence to the idea that they may be pushed left by criticism when the stock defense now appears to be "anything is better than Trump" and nonsensical poo poo like "Don't give Trump ammo!!". Will I continue to have my concerns disregarded through fallacious relative privation? Seems likely given that his happens every election. JT Jag posted:Alright, in that case confidently vote against Trump. I don't get any nega-votes, so unfortunately all I can do is lend my support to someone I agree with. Anything else would be voting against myself, which seems to be why this process is broken to begin with. JT Jag posted:The Green Party has no actual path to the White House because of First Past The Post and until that changes it's a wasted vote unless you live in a solidly blue state anyway. There's no such thing as a wasted vote, either. The vote goes to someone and indicates support, win or lose. You're the one perpetuating the catch-22 here.
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Aug 14, 2020 17:37
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JT Jag posted:Alright, in that case confidently vote against Trump. no such thing either
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Aug 14, 2020 17:38
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if you're worried about your vote going to waste, don't be! if there's even a question of your individual vote mattering on a national scale, there's going to be enough recounts and processing to make sure that it doesn't. your vote does nothing except add to the margins one way or the other
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Aug 14, 2020 17:39
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Better a wasted vote than a regretted one.
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Aug 14, 2020 17:40
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Also it's rich that we are worried about fascism spreading in Europe due to Trump[citation needed] but don't give a poo poo about the right-wing apartheid state of Israel that has the full support of Joe Biden and the Democratic establishment, or the million dead Iraqis due to the failure of Democrats to oppose the War in Iraq in any meaningful way, or the right-wing coups in South American nations that have the full support of Joe Biden.
Mind_Taker fucked around with this message at 17:44 on Aug 14, 2020 |
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Aug 14, 2020 17:40
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Shere posted:There's no such thing as a wasted vote, either. The vote goes to someone and indicates support, win or lose. You're the one perpetuating the catch-22 here. It depends on how you look at politics. If you vote for someone that fully believes what you do but has no chance of winning and because the next person along that is closest to you that did have a chance of winning now loses to the guy who is completely antithetical to you then you and others suffer a net-loss rather than breaking even with a guy who will do some things you like and some things you don't.
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Aug 14, 2020 17:40
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https://twitter.com/natesilver538/status/1294301326839554048?s=21 https://twitter.com/tedlieu/status/1293948323926167553?s=21 https://twitter.com/drbiden/status/1292487464855179264?s=21 I really don’t have words for how angry all this makes me. Trump has done endless, obvious crimes, bragged about them on TV, etc., and every time you get the same feckless bullshit from the Dems. It’s infuriating, and it’s all the more infuriating because of how many suckers seem to think all of this represents resistance against Trump. It’s like resisting arrest by putting the handcuffs on yourself ffs. Meanwhile: https://twitter.com/kylegriffin1/status/1293947924473405442?s=21 How nice for young Andrew.
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Aug 14, 2020 17:40
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what the gently caress is she wearing
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Aug 14, 2020 17:42
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Thom12255 posted:It depends on how you look at politics. If you vote for someone that fully believes what you do but has no chance of winning and because the next person along that is closest to you that did have a chance of winning now loses to the guy who is completely antithetical to you then you and others suffer a net-loss rather than breaking even with a guy who will do some things you like and some things you don't. Of course, you can also look at the outcome of the last 20 years of tactical voting for democrats and see where that's gotten anyone
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Aug 14, 2020 17:42
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Thom12255 posted:It depends on how you look at politics. If you vote for someone that fully believes what you do but has no chance of winning and because the next person along that is closest to you that did have a chance of winning now loses to the guy who is completely antithetical to you then you and others suffer a net-loss rather than breaking even with a guy who will do some things you like and some things you don't. This would imply that there are shades or nuance to issues like people dying from hospital bills, the planet boiling, or voting for credibly accused rapists, which there aren't. I will not perpetuate unequivocal evil with my vote and those who choose to do so in the name of election meta-gaming are doing themselves and the country a disservice.
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Aug 14, 2020 17:43
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Joe Biden, a loving moron who was on the right fringe of the party in 2020, now its face That's how tactical voting actually works haha
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Aug 14, 2020 17:44
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rko posted:Meanwhile:
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Aug 14, 2020 17:44
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Vote Howie! He won't win, of course, but a strong showing will cement the power of the ecosocialst wing of the Green party and help it become something useful to the left going forward. Anyway I think it's clear by the recent tone change in this thread that being told to smile and take it when one of the most profoundly unpopular candidates in modern history picks someone, somehow even more unpopular as his running mate --because what are you going to do, you worm, vote Trump? -- has tipped you towards the breaking point. Good! The reason I think this thread is good and should be kept around is because it's another thing that forces liberals to at least recognize the tensions and contradictions within the neoliberal order. You can't look away. Joe Biden and the democrats aren't coming to save you. Joe Biden and the democrats are not your friends and allies. You're right! This is what we're up against! But, this isn't new. It has been this way for the entire life of everyone posting in this thread (and your parents' lives, and grandparents, probably), and part of your education and radicalization is recognizing that. Some of us thought that maybe Bernie was a way to short circuit this and sneak someone good in, but we all saw what happened. It was a bad defeat but the new American left is still growing, and will continue to grow. The reality is that we need to organize in other ways, because electoral politics is not the only road to power. The protests should prove that -- they are already pulling concessions that were unthinkable months ago, even if these concessions are not yet what they have to be nor what we demand. These protests aren't going away, and neither is the movement. Sure, go vote. Vote for socialists. Maybe if there's a good democrat you can toss them a vote too; I'm not going to stop you. I'm not holding "I voted for Joe Biden" in my soul but at the end of the day I don't really give a poo poo if that's something you feel like you need to do, but at any rate you need to stop thinking exclusively about electoral politics and start thinking about worker power. Organize with your local BLM chapter, or prison abolition/prisoner support movements, or DSA, or IWW, or SRA, or whatever left org appeals to you. Get your friends and family to join. Forge relationships with your neighbors. Try to prepare yourself for what is probably coming. The neoliberal order, climate disaster, economic collapse -- all this stuff is coming to a head. Maybe they somehow manage to delay it enough so that we don't live to see the worst of it, but that doesn't matter, the job is still the same. Generations of people have fought to get us here, and if we really believe that a better world is possible, we are called to continue the fight. We have to keep going; there is no other choice.
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Aug 14, 2020 17:45
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HannibalBarca posted:what the gently caress is she wearing I think she is getting ready to go to bed and forgot to mail something.
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Aug 14, 2020 17:45
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Thom12255 posted:It depends on how you look at politics. If you vote for someone that fully believes what you do but has no chance of winning and because the next person along that is closest to you that did have a chance of winning now loses to the guy who is completely antithetical to you then you and others suffer a net-loss rather than breaking even with a guy who will do some things you like and some things you don't. there is literally 0 chance of this happening in a us presidential election
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Aug 14, 2020 17:46
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rko posted:Meanwhile: Does this mean Dems might support a universal basic income?
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Aug 14, 2020 17:46
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I said come in! posted:Does this mean Dems might support a universal basic income? why not? it'd give them an excuse to cut every other welfare programme
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Aug 14, 2020 17:47
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Mind_Taker posted:The Green Party will win if Biden voters just consolidate around Hawkins. It's a shame that Biden voters are too immature to keep their egos in check. He's electable if you vote for him! That's what the big brain geniuses in the Warren camp kept telling me, and hell, it sounds like they're right. Green me up, Howie!
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Aug 14, 2020 17:47
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V. Illych L. posted:why not? it'd give them an excuse to cut every other welfare programme Wouldn't Yangs $2000 a month UBI program be better than all of the other welfare programs we have now? And probably cheaper as there would be less overhead to run it (theres no qualify or submitting for approvals, you just get the payments once you turn 18). We can easily afford this if we are willing to tax the billionaries (lmao).
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Aug 14, 2020 17:51
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Thom12255 posted:It depends on how you look at politics. If you vote for someone that fully believes what you do but has no chance of winning and because the next person along that is closest to you that did have a chance of winning now loses to the guy who is completely antithetical to you then you and others suffer a net-loss rather than breaking even with a guy who will do some things you like and some things you don't. Explain how Biden is not completely antithetical to progressive politics.
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Aug 14, 2020 17:54
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I said come in! posted:Does this mean Dems might support a universal basic income? Yeah just like AOC’s minute of airtime signals their support for the Green New Deal.
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Aug 14, 2020 17:58
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I said come in! posted:Wouldn't Yangs $2000 a month UBI program be better than all of the other welfare programs we have now? And probably cheaper as there would be less overhead to run it (theres no qualify or submitting for approvals, you just get the payments once you turn 18). We can easily afford this if we are willing to tax the billionaries (lmao). It would absolutely not be for anyone on medicaid or medicare You're absolutely right that means testing is not worth it and every benefit should be universal though
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Aug 14, 2020 18:00
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