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i am re-reading skypeia which is like the one arc i never really fully re-read and it might actually be the funniest one piece arc there's so many good little moments. luffy and ussop thinking robin's being ridiculous for not wanting to give away their position with a campfire in the upper yard because she's been "living in darkness" is great, especially with the instant cut to the next page to luffy dancing with a sky wolf around a pillar of flames
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Aug 15, 2020 19:50
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Scratchman Apoo posted:He toppled Page One after he put on the Raid Suit. Yes but he did not defeat Oven, he just got one hit in after a surprise attack, they did not have a proper fight. Also he knocked Page One down, then Page One got right back up in Hybrid Form. According to the anime they had a brief fight then Sanji bolted.
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Aug 15, 2020 19:59
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I don't think any argument about One Piece should start with "according to the anime."
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Aug 15, 2020 20:06
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Begemot posted:It's from the manga, characters just reacted with funny faces and said "his voice doesn't fit him at all!" IIRC. Ah. Yeah, that definitely works better in the anime in that case.
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Aug 15, 2020 20:27
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I'm also watching through One Pace after being manga only since the time skip pretty much, and yeah Fishman island has flaws, but tbh it could've just been a thousand pages of Luffy taking a poo poo and it'd be worth it for the moment when Luffy is on the phone to Big Mom. What a loving psycho this boy is.
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Aug 15, 2020 21:34
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MonsterEnvy posted:Yes but he did not defeat Oven, he just got one hit in after a surprise attack, they did not have a proper fight. Sure but as has been pointed out there have been vanishingly few non-Luffy extended Alabasta/Enies Lobby-style drag out fights since...well basically those arcs. Fishman Island was just a series of really quick "the bad guy shows off their power and look like they might have the upper hand, then the Straw Hats immediately do a finishing move" sequences. Even Zorro vs Pica was a puzzle fight where Zoro just needed to do something clever to figure out how to slash him a single time. In lieu of "proper fights" you kind of have to take what we've gotten for the past decade plus at this point, which is small cool moments, and several of Sanji's have involved him going toe to toe with heavy hitters and mostly coming out on top. Smacking a guy around and escaping when your goal is to stop them from capturing/identifying you and your friends is a solid "win" in both of those examples.
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Aug 15, 2020 21:41
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One Piece isn't a fight manga anymore. I still love it, but it's moved away from that focus pretty heavily.
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Aug 15, 2020 21:43
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Arist posted:One Piece isn't a fight manga anymore. I still love it, but it's moved away from that focus pretty heavily. Luffy's not some upstart pirate anymore who can just go on random adventures, picking fights with every pirate leader he wants. He's a world class criminal now with responsibilities. He's got emperors to overthrow, poneglyphs to review, dozens of scheduled appointments with his territory representatives. In 20 years Luffy will look out his Pirate King office window, reminiscing the days he had the time to dance around a fire all night.
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Aug 15, 2020 21:56
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Guy A. Person posted:Sure but as has been pointed out there have been vanishingly few non-Luffy extended Alabasta/Enies Lobby-style drag out fights since...well basically those arcs. Fishman Island was just a series of really quick "the bad guy shows off their power and look like they might have the upper hand, then the Straw Hats immediately do a finishing move" sequences. Even Zorro vs Pica was a puzzle fight where Zoro just needed to do something clever to figure out how to slash him a single time. its actually one of the few big pieces of media ive seen that starts off more action oriented and becomes more adventure oriented -- rather than vice versa. the raising stakes arent bigger set pieces and huger action sets, they're more characters involved with higher consequences and more ridiculous settings. its actually kinda cool??? adventure is fun.
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Aug 15, 2020 23:04
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What's weird is that part of what originally drew me to One Piece was remembering cool stuff I had seen as a child (from the loving 4Kids dub, no less) of Luffy being unable to attack Crocodile and the creative solutions to that problem he devised in terms of the water barrel and eventually his own blood. And when that led to me giving the series a real shot in my freshman year of college, I distinctly remember getting to the fight with Don Krieg and going "these fights are so dynamic and clever." Those fights were the reason I was watching. Now, they weren't the only good stuff in the show, because none of those fights would have meant anything without Oda's great talent for establishing setting and amazing character work, but the fights were just so cool. This is before I even got into JoJo, and I had always kind of avoided the super-long-runners outside of what episodes of Naruto would appear on Toonami, so I hadn't seen anything quite like it before, and certainly not done as well. One Piece could have been that for its entire run and I would have been happy, but after Enies Lobby the series has definitely moved away from that... and I'm not complaining at all, because the rest of the manga was just so compelling. The characters and the world became the appeal, and even a lot of my the best action moments I can think of aren't traditional "fights," like Kuma's appearances at Thriller Bark and Sabaody, or Usopp re-defeating Sugar from the other side of Dressrosa, or Brook smashing the picture of Caramel. My concern has totally shifted away from "wow, how are they gonna beat this dude????" to "where the hell is the story gonna go next????" and that rules. One Piece is great. It's a great adventure story.
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Aug 15, 2020 23:29
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There hasn't been much time recently to do full on fights since Dressrosa. Zou was mostly aftermath, though considering how well Luffy did against Katakuri, if the crew had arrived earlier, they definitely could've taken on Jack. Whole Cake's entire plot was getting the gently caress outta there unless you really had no choice and Wano has been a lot of setup and subterfuge to get everyone in one place at the right time. Now everyone's getting into position and Luffy literally declared he's gonna beat everyone up right here and now, so we're about to get like 100 chapters of punching people in the face and it's gonna be great. I can't wait for literally everyone on the island to turn against Kaido and take him down.
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Aug 15, 2020 23:35
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This was a weird choice to splurge the fight scene budget on, but I'll take it.
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Aug 16, 2020 01:24
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It has less to do with budget and more to do with Katsumi Ishizuka, an animator who has primarily worked on the One Piece movies as well as a few key scenes from earlier in the series.
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Aug 16, 2020 01:27
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tbp posted:i am re-reading skypeia which is like the one arc i never really fully re-read and it might actually be the funniest one piece arc It's got the purest sense of adventure op has generally in a single arc it owns. People have bad memories cos the scans sucked
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Aug 16, 2020 01:45
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Blockhouse posted:It has less to do with budget and more to do with Katsumi Ishizuka, an animator who has primarily worked on the One Piece movies as well as a few key scenes from earlier in the series.
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Aug 16, 2020 01:54
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Guy A. Person posted:Smacking a guy around and escaping when your goal is to stop them from capturing/identifying you and your friends is a solid "win" in both of those examples.
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Aug 16, 2020 02:53
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https://twitter.com/Crunchyroll/status/1294830584078970880?s=20 Oh is that what their colors are
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Aug 16, 2020 03:58
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For another example , the walk to Arlong Park is entirely anime only and it makes the scene way more iconic. The manga has Luffy just appear and bash in the gate and while cool, the anime adds a sequence and nails it so hard most people think Oda was the one who did it. I think the walk to Franky House was another one of these additions but it’s been a while since I’ve read Water 7 so don’t quote me on that.
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Aug 16, 2020 08:14
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Jose posted:It's got the purest sense of adventure op has generally in a single arc it owns. People have bad memories cos the scans sucked I loved Skypiea on my first read through even though the scan quality was garbage, it just had the misfortune of being stuck between the twin titans of Alabasta and Water Seven/Enies Lobby.
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Aug 16, 2020 09:16
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ThingOne posted:it just had the misfortune of being stuck between the twin titans of Alabasta and Water Seven/Enies Lobby. Having only watched the anime back in the day, Skypiea's anime version certainly profited from being sandwiched between two dense clusters of filler arcs, plus the painfully-elongated Davy Back fight. The latter in particular felt like such a low point to me that everything before and after was lifted up somewhat; I was honestly surprised to learn that the Davy Back stuff wasn't entirely anime filler. Fake edit: Looking it up on the wiki, it's even worse than I remembered: The filler parts between Alabasta and Jaya take up episodes 131-143, and the filler plus honorary filler (Davy Back fight) after Skypiea encompasses all of episodes 196-226. I stopped watching after Enies Lobby; has there ever been a more dire time for the anime than the stretch between Skypiea and Water 7?
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Aug 16, 2020 15:18
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Fishman Island gets pretty dire due to the sheer abundance of time-filling recap in each episode. I can’t imagine waiting a week for half of those episodes only to get about eight minutes of new content between the recap, flashbacks and previews for next week.
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Aug 16, 2020 15:35
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Carpator Diei posted:Having only watched the anime back in the day, Skypiea's anime version certainly profited from being sandwiched between two dense clusters of filler arcs, plus the painfully-elongated Davy Back fight. The latter in particular felt like such a low point to me that everything before and after was lifted up somewhat; I was honestly surprised to learn that the Davy Back stuff wasn't entirely anime filler. G8 is good enough that It's a shame Oda never incorporated Johnathan into the series somehow. The filler they did with Foxy was pretty awful though. They had them go through two sets of games and then they ran into him again shortly afterwards. I'll tell you what though, I'll take it over them just elongating episodes and putting a chapters worth of content in and ruining lots of cool moments. The price we had to pay for no filler episodes wasn't worth it, at least we could skip it if they weren't good.
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Aug 16, 2020 15:53
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Toei insisting on always airing new One Piece is the real thing at fault here. The price to pay for no filer should be seasonal releases, even for the long-running poo poo. Thankfully most of the rest of the anime industry has finally figured this out.
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Aug 16, 2020 16:11
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Dr Subterfuge posted:Toei insisting on always airing new One Piece is the real thing at fault here. The price to pay for no filer should be seasonal releases, even for the long-running poo poo. Thankfully most of the rest of the anime industry has finally figured this out.
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Aug 16, 2020 17:00
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I mean, they also have a series that prints gold so they should be able to get any timeslot they want.
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Aug 16, 2020 17:15
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Not to like, go to far into it but ultimately what leaves me more positive than negative on Sanji is outside the peeping stuff I legitimately do not think he'd ever hurt a woman in any way. Look at a woman yes, hurt her no. I mean, considering how things go with Kalifa and the fact he probably hasn't gotten any better since. It sucks that they rely so heavily on the nosebleed joke for him, and that his actual cool side (cooking, being incredibly suave/snarky in fights with more powerful people he out-thinks, having a self-sacrifical streak a mile long) only really showed up in full power during Whole Cake Island.
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Aug 16, 2020 17:24
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Blockhouse posted:It has less to do with budget and more to do with Katsumi Ishizuka, an animator who has primarily worked on the One Piece movies as well as a few key scenes from earlier in the series. idk how the animators saw the style of animation used for the gatling in the latter clip and then turned around and said "okay for kong organ luffy should make 6, static, unmoving arms that then extend out at the exact same time, simultaneously looking insanely poo poo and boring and also incredibly unrealistic and unfaithful to the manga. that'll do it."
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Aug 16, 2020 17:33
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Lord_Magmar posted:Not to like, go to far into it but ultimately what leaves me more positive than negative on Sanji is outside the peeping stuff I legitimately do not think he'd ever hurt a woman in any way. Look at a woman yes, hurt her no. I mean, considering how things go with Kalifa and the fact he probably hasn't gotten any better since. what is annoying is that i would have to begrudgingly admit that in universe "just looking" and "hurting" are separate things, too. if this were irl i would find it really hard to argue that "turning invisible and watching two of your best friends naked when they explicitly dont want you to" isn't a violent act but oda clearly doesn't treat it that way so we're supposed to understand sanji as "bad, but AS BAD" i think
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Aug 16, 2020 17:36
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Bisse posted:Its the time slot poo poo. They have a IT PRIN’TS GOLD timeslot but if they don’t use it, even for just one week, they lose it. So they are basically forced into an episode-a-week format. why cant they just rerun the season half the year
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Aug 16, 2020 17:57
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euphemism posted:why cant they just rerun the season half the year They actually did this recently with the Covid delays, but I'm guessing it's anathema to ratings 
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Aug 16, 2020 18:10
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euphemism posted:why cant they just rerun the season half the year They don't want to, or whoever's in charge is stuck in the past. One Piece and Conan are probably some of the few endless anime left.
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Aug 16, 2020 18:18
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Black Clover, oddly enough for something so recent.
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Aug 16, 2020 18:23
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Waffleman_ posted:Black Clover, oddly enough for something so recent. Kind of fits into Black Clover's entire thing of being "every Shonen you've ever seen but bad".
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Aug 16, 2020 18:30
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tbp posted:what is annoying is that i would have to begrudgingly admit that in universe "just looking" and "hurting" are separate things, too. if this were irl i would find it really hard to argue that "turning invisible and watching two of your best friends naked when they explicitly dont want you to" isn't a violent act but oda clearly doesn't treat it that way so we're supposed to understand sanji as "bad, but AS BAD" i think The best* (with a very asterix behind it because actual best would be the character never having gone this direction post Thriller Bark) we can take the viewpoint after the context given from Wholecake Island it is very clear Sanji has psychologically very damage views on gender born from trauma and coping with it. His early life was abusive and it was born from failing to live up to a very toxic masculinity ideal (physical strong, violent, not showing emotions). What he liked doing would be considered a feminine activity in many cultural and he was made fun of for it. The only people who showed any kindness prior to his escape and the cause of his freedom were all women. When he finally finds a positive male roll model that man further instills in him that idea that there is a line between men and women that you don't cross (with both good and bad intent in it. Good because there is some idea of respect behind it but also bad because its a self imposed line in Zeff's case cause he recognizes he cant stop being violent even to people he mentors so he just cuts out women being chefs in his kitchen rather than deal with his own self control) So from all this positive and negative feedback Sanji has put his ideal of women so high up on a pedestal that in many cases he stops seeing them as people. It would be nice if something could ground Sanji's viewpoint but I doubt Oda is ever going to provide that character development. The best we can hope for is maybe post Wano having done the Stealth Black "gag" we don't play around with this brand of Comedy anymore.
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Aug 16, 2020 18:51
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Vise the Stompy posted:His early life was abusive and it was born from failing to live up to a very toxic masculinity ideal (physical strong, violent, not showing emotions)  
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Aug 16, 2020 20:07
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Vise the Stompy posted:The best* (with a very asterix behind it because actual best would be the character never having gone this direction post Thriller Bark) we can take the viewpoint after the context given from Wholecake Island it is very clear Sanji has psychologically very damage views on gender born from trauma and coping with it. His early life was abusive and it was born from failing to live up to a very toxic masculinity ideal (physical strong, violent, not showing emotions). What he liked doing would be considered a feminine activity in many cultural and he was made fun of for it. The only people who showed any kindness prior to his escape and the cause of his freedom were all women. I mean you could kind of interpret it this way but I don't think that's what's going on. Sanji's a pervert because Oda thought he'd be funny as a pervert. His actions towards women isn't about some toxic masculinity background that Oda likely hadn't fleshed out back when he created the character as a womanizer. We already got Sanji's big backstory arc and it doesn't change his behavior or views on women at all. He is what he is and that's likely not changing at this point. Which is a shame because if he wasn't such a creepo Sanji would probably be my favorite of the crew.
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Aug 16, 2020 21:32
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I mean, that's really the tragedy of Sanji isn't it. He would be amazing if it weren't for... his thing. Like, a cool character with an embarrassing gimmick is a fine idea: Zoro has an impossibly bad sense of direction that has gotten more and more absurd. It's fun. If Sanji did everything he did, and was occasionally incredibly undignified... he would be the coolest. His status as the weakest of the monster trio- someone who can consider himself a rival of Zoro, but like, he's the god drat cook- is really compelling. His Mr. Prince tenancies are really cool. He just disappears and goes off to do what needs to be done. Sanji being absent for the Galley La stuff on Water Seven and then showing up at the protagonist of the Sea Train mini arc was so drat cool. He figured he'd do more good leaving the main stuff to others, and using his power where no one else was. I love that. Oda clearly thinks Sanji's treatment of women is goofy and innocent. If I agreed, I'd really like Sanji. I... don't agree. It's a shame.
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Aug 16, 2020 23:17
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Sucked even more that he was all normal with pudding then reverts right back the second they leave WCI
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Aug 17, 2020 01:28
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Yeah I was really hoping Whole Cake was going to be the end of the perverted Sanji jokes and Oda had realized (or had been told by an editor) that it wasn't working but Nope
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Aug 17, 2020 01:33
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I mean it's definitely ramped down from how bad it was before. I don't think we're ever going to go back to Pre Thriller Bark days though which is sad
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Aug 17, 2020 02:13
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