|
PinheadSlim posted:So the mystery deaths in my tavern started again. No ghosts this time for sure. I have no idea what's going on lol. I'd say twice a year someone drops dead suddenly, usually into a pile of their own vomit. Oh well, it's a pretty cool tavern and this just adds to that. hell yeah lmao
|
#
?
Aug 15, 2020 19:43
|
|
|
|
| # ? Jun 2, 2024 12:06 |
|
|
"Pile of their own vomit" suggests that it's likely to be alcohol poisoning, yeah. Ghosts don't make people barf when they scare them to death.
|
|
#
?
Aug 15, 2020 20:26
|
|
|
....dwarfs can get Alcohol Poisoning? My reality has been shattered.
|
|
#
?
Aug 15, 2020 22:32
|
|
|
Hope you can still drive the UI with just the keyboard.
|
|
#
?
Aug 15, 2020 22:32
|
|
|
Veryslightlymad posted:....dwarfs can get Alcohol Poisoning? My reality has been shattered. I don't think dwarfs can, but whatever useless foreign moochers end up in your tavern will definitely die from a bit of ale.
|
|
#
?
Aug 16, 2020 00:25
|
|
|
kruggsmash had issues with dwarves drinking to death in his taverns once
|
|
#
?
Aug 16, 2020 01:09
|
|
|
I think to be immune to alcohol poisoning, a creature would have to be immune to poisons altogether. Alcohol isn't treated differently than other poisons in that regard. Well, at least I can't find any creature tag that would allow for a selective immunity to certain substances, so I'm guessing that it's not currently supposed to be possible.
|
|
#
?
Aug 16, 2020 01:24
|
|
|
Cardiovorax posted:I think to be immune to alcohol poisoning, a creature would have to be immune to poisons altogether. Alcohol isn't treated differently than other poisons in that regard. Well, at least I can't find any creature tag that would allow for a selective immunity to certain substances, so I'm guessing that it's not currently supposed to be possible. Dwarves do have half-again the liver size of other creatures. I don't know if this is just a cute joke or if it actually does serve the function if boosting their poison resistance.
|
|
#
?
Aug 16, 2020 01:37
|
|
|
I think the only that affects is how many servings of Prepared Dwarf Liver you would get if you were actually capable of making that dish, but it is a funny little detail.
|
|
#
?
Aug 16, 2020 01:43
|
|
|
married but discreet posted:I don't think dwarfs can, but whatever useless foreign moochers end up in your tavern will definitely die from a bit of ale. I think they can, they just need more than other humanoids
|
|
#
?
Aug 16, 2020 01:50
|
|
|
PinheadSlim posted:So the mystery deaths in my tavern started again. No ghosts this time for sure. I have no idea what's going on lol. I'd say twice a year someone drops dead suddenly, usually into a pile of their own vomit. Oh well, it's a pretty cool tavern and this just adds to that. Create a corpse stockpile and/or graveyard next to the tavern so when dwarves drink themselves to death you don't have to drag them far. Efficiency!
|
|
#
?
Aug 16, 2020 02:53
|
|
|
The easily accessible wiki posted:Over-consumption of alcohol can lead to harmful syndromes, progressing to inebriation, unconsciousness, and death. Each individual has their own tolerance level based on their size (with dwarves having 1.5× the resistance for their size) and each individual will consume more or less according to their need to drink. Mysterious deaths from suffocation in your taverns are most likely cases of acute alcohol poisoning. Note that the lethal effects of alcohol poisoning are caused by impairing the function of a creature's lungs, making creatures that lack lungs, or the need to breathe, immune to death from alcohol poisoning.
|
|
#
?
Aug 16, 2020 03:12
|
|
|
is the game balance tolerable right now or are bad thought death spirals still impossible to avoid?
|
|
#
?
Aug 16, 2020 05:43
|
|
|
punishedkissinger posted:is the game balance tolerable right now or are bad thought death spirals still impossible to avoid? It's pretty bad right now. Somehow Kruggsmash avoids death spirals, I have no idea how he does it. I do it by modding Dwarves to be more resistant to stress.
|
|
#
?
Aug 16, 2020 06:58
|
|
|
PinheadSlim posted:It's pretty bad right now. I think it's mostly his practice of kicking out particularly grumpy dwarves so they don't murder anybody or kill themselves and set off a spiral. And locking up vampires/werecreatures for the same reason.
|
|
#
?
Aug 16, 2020 14:21
|
|
|
yeah you have to monitor your dwarves' stress levels and anyone that just can't be stabilized, gets the boot
|
|
#
?
Aug 16, 2020 16:18
|
|
|
that's a bummer. i hope it gets ironed out for the steam release
|
|
#
?
Aug 16, 2020 16:24
|
|
|
Supposedly, it's an issue with persistent negative memories piling up and never disappearing, which reduces the base mood of a dwarf further and further the longer they live. Over long games, this can compound to the point where it's just not possible to keep the dwarf happy no matter what they do. There are DFhack scripts that exist specifically to purge those memories, which is technically a bit cheaty, but is kind of justified since it's an unaddressed balance issue more than anything. Use one of those and you will very likely not have that particular problem.
|
|
#
?
Aug 16, 2020 17:09
|
|
|
Cardiovorax posted:Supposedly, it's an issue with persistent negative memories piling up and never disappearing, which reduces the base mood of a dwarf further and further the longer they live. Over long games, this can compound to the point where it's just not possible to keep the dwarf happy no matter what they do. There are DFhack scripts that exist specifically to purge those memories, which is technically a bit cheaty, but is kind of justified since it's an unaddressed balance issue more than anything. Use one of those and you will very likely not have that particular problem. I've found it impossible to kill any goblins because of it. Once a dwarf experiences an emotional shock they start dwelling on stupid poo poo that happened to them in the past and all the sudden they're dead inside because they got caught in the rain five years ago. In my last game I made it for years with nothing but good vibes because I just caged all invaders and released them into the caverns.
|
|
#
?
Aug 16, 2020 17:27
|
|
|
Cardiovorax posted:Supposedly, it's an issue with persistent negative memories piling up and never disappearing, which reduces the base mood of a dwarf further and further the longer they live. Over long games, this can compound to the point where it's just not possible to keep the dwarf happy no matter what they do. If it's been identified as an issue (as in something that needs to be addressed) I'm thinking it should be fairly easy to just give negative memories a hard time limit? That way Urist Bloodaxe, veteran of a thousand sieges, won't have a severe PTSD-related breakdown every time he remembers he saw a random goblin fingerbone once seven years ago.
|
|
#
?
Aug 16, 2020 17:30
|
|
|
In my opinion killing evil creatures such as goblins and necromancer experiments should not cause bad thoughts but other Dwarves and maybe even Elves and Humans dying should be a big shock to any unhardened Dwarf. From the standpoint that if you've been at war with dudes (who are ruled by demons and steal your children) for centuries you've probably stopped thinking of them as actual people a while ago. FreudianSlippers fucked around with this message at 17:33 on Aug 16, 2020 |
|
#
?
Aug 16, 2020 17:30
|
|
|
Cardiovorax posted:Supposedly, it's an issue with persistent negative memories piling up and never disappearing, which reduces the base mood of a dwarf further and further the longer they live. Over long games, this can compound to the point where it's just not possible to keep the dwarf happy no matter what they do. There are DFhack scripts that exist specifically to purge those memories, which is technically a bit cheaty, but is kind of justified since it's an unaddressed balance issue more than anything. Use one of those and you will very likely not have that particular problem. No supposedly about it, this is what it is. A big part of it is that there are certain negative memories that aren't balanced with the industrial scale of player operations in mind. For example, seeing a corpse eventually gets desensitized down to like a -2 penalty to mood, but it never actually reaches zero. This is fine for a well-equipped squad of soldiers fighting a dozen goblins or whatever. It is extremely not fine for the dwarf who sees your refuse stockpile with six in-game years' worth of corpses, and nothing can make it fine. There are other aspects that play into it as well, complicated by the fact that there are two interrelated but separate systems of dwarven emotion, one of which relates to their stress level and mental breaking point, the other to their ability to focus and work efficiently. But the top-level effect of all of this, leaving the details aside, is that certain dwarves will never really be happy in your fortress unless you making sweeping structural / architectural changes, and will eventually get unhappy enough to have a breakdown. For some of them this happens very quickly, for others they build up an initial buffer of happiness that degrades very slowly but will eventually run out. Tuxedo Catfish fucked around with this message at 18:00 on Aug 16, 2020 |
|
#
?
Aug 16, 2020 17:57
|
|
|
so dump your corpses into magma to vaporize them and periodically exile the corpse haulers there is no problem in DF that cannot be solved through the application of magma
|
|
#
?
Aug 16, 2020 18:01
|
|
|
Excelzior posted:so dump your corpses into magma to vaporize them and periodically exile the corpse haulers better yet, have each corpse hauler willingly jump into the magma with the corpse still in their arms 
|
|
#
?
Aug 16, 2020 18:10
|
|
|
You can keep your corpse haulers, that's not really how it works. It's more that some dwarves, for example, get really big happiness bonuses from alcohol or prayer and can be sustained indefinitely through these things. Conversely, some dwarves are atheists and therefore are near-inevitably destined to succumb to depression. Some dwarves get very little pleasure from anything. Some dwarves are inherently anxious or unstable and even a momentary lapse into unhappiness, even if they would recover in time, will set them off. Some dwarves get huge happiness swings from eating meals with certain ingredients, which you don't grow in your fort and even if you did there's no guarantee they will actually seek out their favorite food, they'll just go for whatever was crafted most recently and then complain about eating the same old food anyways. Most of it is completely impenetrable to the player and can only barely be interacted with, or would require a massive program of intervention that it is no way worth it for one lousy dwarf. Hence the more pragmatic approach of simply exiling any dwarf who shows signs of misery unless they're vitally important for some reason. Tuxedo Catfish fucked around with this message at 18:14 on Aug 16, 2020 |
|
#
?
Aug 16, 2020 18:10
|
|
|
Comrade Koba posted:If it's been identified as an issue (as in something that needs to be addressed) I'm thinking it should be fairly easy to just give negative memories a hard time limit? That way Urist Bloodaxe, veteran of a thousand sieges, won't have a severe PTSD-related breakdown every time he remembers he saw a random goblin fingerbone once seven years ago.
|
|
#
?
Aug 16, 2020 18:12
|
|
|
Tuxedo Catfish posted:Conversely, some dwarves are atheists and therefore are near-inevitably destined to succumb to depression. This makes me curious, do we know if dwarves can change their religion (or adopt one if they're atheists), or is it hard-coded on dwarf generation? Zereth posted:They should probably also not consider every individual body part as shocking as seeing the main corpse, if I recall how it currently works correctly. Also this, or at least make each individual dead creature not generate more than one negative thought, no matter how many parts the corpse is divided in (unless that's already how it works). Seeing a corpse who lost a hand and bled out probably isn't twice as horrifying as seeing one that just got stabbed or whatever.
|
|
#
?
Aug 16, 2020 18:26
|
|
|
Comrade Koba posted:This makes me curious, do we know if dwarves can change their religion (or adopt one if they're atheists), or is it hard-coded on dwarf generation? I'm fairly certain that dwarves can acquire new objects of worship, but I'm not sure about losing them, or if the predisposition to atheism is hardcoded and those dwarves in particular will never find a god.
|
|
#
?
Aug 16, 2020 18:28
|
|
|
to be fair wandering into a mass grave in the backyard would probably give me ptsd too
|
|
#
?
Aug 16, 2020 18:50
|
|
|
Sounds like Elf talk to me, son
|
|
#
?
Aug 16, 2020 18:50
|
|
|
Comrade Koba posted:If it's been identified as an issue (as in something that needs to be addressed) I'm thinking it should be fairly easy to just give negative memories a hard time limit? That way Urist Bloodaxe, veteran of a thousand sieges, won't have a severe PTSD-related breakdown every time he remembers he saw a random goblin fingerbone once seven years ago. It didn't seem like they had come to any real agreement yet on what to do about it. Your solution honestly sounds like it would be perfectly adequate and functional, but I think Toady has this thing where he wants all dwarf memories to be completely persistent and figuring out a good middle ground is taking some time. Right now, I think they're focusing on different things.
|
|
#
?
Aug 16, 2020 20:26
|
|
|
Cardiovorax posted:When I read up on the Bay12 forums about that particular issue, Toady's brother(?) said that they couldn't really identify it as a problem because it wouldn't crop up in any test games he played. A lot of people chimed in and said that it was because he didn't play for long enough and that it's a situation that you'll only have to deal with in fortresses that last more than a couple of years and he simply didn't play for long enough, which sounds fair to me. honestly this seems like the source of a lot of issues going under the radar for so long. most of the worst things that have lasted across versions were problems encountered by forts older than two years
|
|
#
?
Aug 16, 2020 20:56
|
|
|
Also you can't always just exile the problem dwarves every time because of a known glitch where they can't leave because their spouse or child isn't with them or something like that.
|
|
#
?
Aug 16, 2020 21:09
|
|
|
It boggles my mind that natural corpse breakdown is a dfhack thing and even then its eeeeeeehhhhhh on actually working. Like its a huge fps sink as is, not to mention the issues with stress.
|
|
#
?
Aug 17, 2020 06:36
|
|
|
Jazerus posted:honestly this seems like the source of a lot of issues going under the radar for so long. most of the worst things that have lasted across versions were problems encountered by forts older than two years
|
|
#
?
Aug 17, 2020 06:51
|
|
|
Fffrrrrgh So I don't like using DFprospect because finding ores for myself is fun, and then I embark a place that has deep and shallow metals, and I find.. nothing. Prospect command then reveals that there are no ores 
|
|
#
?
Aug 17, 2020 17:14
|
|
|
canepazzo posted:New UI art! I loving love that one of the things Tarn notes in the Devlog is that Mike having a widescreen monitor meant they were able to sort out issues with widescreen. I can only assume that he himself has a 15" 4:3 CRT. (That said, I do hope they expand the size of the text relative to the rows slightly, there's a bit too much padding for good use) MikeJF fucked around with this message at 18:12 on Aug 17, 2020 |
|
#
?
Aug 17, 2020 18:10
|
|
|
MikeJF posted:I loving love that one of the things Tarn notes in the Devlog is that Mike having a widescreen monitor meant they were able to sort out issues with widescreen. I can only assume that he himself has a 15" 4:3 CRT.
|
|
#
?
Aug 17, 2020 18:17
|
|
|
The entire game is programmed on an abacus.
|
|
#
?
Aug 17, 2020 18:31
|
|
|
|
| # ? Jun 2, 2024 12:06 |
|
|
I have no proof Toady didn't strike an entire programming rig out of the vast fjells of Norway, so I'm forced to assume that's how we got DF.
|
|
#
?
Aug 17, 2020 18:56
|
|